Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

["Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>]

Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?


Regards,
Alan

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@gmail.com>]

Le 21/01/15 16:11, Benson Margulies a écrit :
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> ...In general, enough of them do disclose it to allow for checking the
>>>> diversity of a project.
>>> And so, where is this stored?...
>> I don't think there's a central location - some projects have that on
>> their team pages, like http://harmony.apache.org/contributors.html
> I don't see what a central location could mean.
>
> Not everyone has _one_ employer.
>
> Not everyone is working for their employer when they are volunteering
> an Apache project.
>
> Not everyone is working for the _same_ employer when they are
> volunteering on _more than one_ Apache project.
>
> In the interests of transparency, some PMCs may feel the need to ask
> their members and contributors to disclose _if_ they are being paid by
> some employer for their work on the project. Other PMCs may experience
> no stresses or conflicts that lead them to feel the need to ask this
> question.

We even have had one committer who used a proxy name, because he didn't
want his real name to be exposed at all.

That's ok. We don't really care which company you are working for, as we
are registred as individuals.

Those of us who want to get cover from being sued by their company can
ask their company to sign a iCla.

What's the problem are you trying to solve exactly ?

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> ...In general, enough of them do disclose it to allow for checking the
>>> diversity of a project.
>>
>> And so, where is this stored?...
>
> I don't think there's a central location - some projects have that on
> their team pages, like http://harmony.apache.org/contributors.html

I don't see what a central location could mean.

Not everyone has _one_ employer.

Not everyone is working for their employer when they are volunteering
an Apache project.

Not everyone is working for the _same_ employer when they are
volunteering on _more than one_ Apache project.

In the interests of transparency, some PMCs may feel the need to ask
their members and contributors to disclose _if_ they are being paid by
some employer for their work on the project. Other PMCs may experience
no stresses or conflicts that lead them to feel the need to ask this
question.


>
> -Bertrand

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> ...In general, enough of them do disclose it to allow for checking the
>> diversity of a project.
>
> And so, where is this stored?...

I don't think there's a central location - some projects have that on
their team pages, like http://harmony.apache.org/contributors.html

-Bertrand

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

["Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>]

> On Jan 21, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> ...How else can we know if we have a diverse community or if all the committers are from the same company?...
> 
> committers and PMC members are not required to disclose their affiliation.
> 
> In general, enough of them do disclose it to allow for checking the
> diversity of a project.

And so, where is this stored?


Regards,
Alan

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> ...How else can we know if we have a diverse community or if all the committers are from the same company?...

committers and PMC members are not required to disclose their affiliation.

In general, enough of them do disclose it to allow for checking the
diversity of a project.

-Bertrand

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[jan i <ja...@apache.org>]

On 20 January 2015 at 23:00, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:

>
> > On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 20 January 2015 at 20:57, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?
> >>
> >
> > Another question, which might be more relevant, why should people (==
> > committers) tell who their eployers are ?
> >
> > We are in Apache as the people we are, not because we get paid from a
> > company.
> >
> > I will be surprised if this information exist apart from few special
> cases.
>
> How else can we know if we have a diverse community or if all the
> committers are from the same company?
>

that is a good question, but we do not have it in the ICLA nor in any other
required information.

"The special cases" to me is exactly for podlings, where a company comes
with a number of employes and maybe also signs a CCLA. That is very
different from when the same people come "alone" one by one.

We do theoretically have a problem with "diverse community", but since we
(ASF) are so keen about not ackowledging the companies but only the
individuals, registrating the company would be a contradication.

To be fair, I think many people would go away if they had to register their
employers.

rgds
jan i

>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

["Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>]

> On Jan 20, 2015, at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On 20 January 2015 at 20:57, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> 
>> Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?
>> 
> 
> Another question, which might be more relevant, why should people (==
> committers) tell who their eployers are ?
> 
> We are in Apache as the people we are, not because we get paid from a
> company.
> 
> I will be surprised if this information exist apart from few special cases.

How else can we know if we have a diverse community or if all the committers are from the same company?  


Regards,
Alan

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>]

jan i wrote:
> Another question, which might be more relevant, why should people (==
> committers) tell who their eployers are ?

Officers are required to disclose their employer (I don't know what 
happens if one does not, and I don't see problems in making my employer 
known to other members, so I'm not testing it):

https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/foundation/officers/affiliations.txt

I think it won't harm anyone if I share the header of that file here:

# Note: While it is recognized that people participate at The ASF as 
individuals,
# and from time-to-time wear other hats, the purpose of this file is to 
denote
# the primary affiliation of each person for insurance and tax purposes.

Like Jan, I don't think affiliation is very relevant for committers 
though. Diversity is good, is to be encouraged, but it's not a 
requirement, as someone clarified recently on an Apache list. A project 
must make sure that affiliation is not a factor (to be used either in 
favor or against) when nominating a new committer.

Regards,
   Andrea.

Re: Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?

[jan i <ja...@apache.org>]

On 20 January 2015 at 20:57, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:

> Is there a canonical location for peoples' employers?
>

Another question, which might be more relevant, why should people (==
committers) tell who their eployers are ?

We are in Apache as the people we are, not because we get paid from a
company.

I will be surprised if this information exist apart from few special cases.

rgds
jan i.

>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>