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Posted to docs@cocoon.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch> on 2002/11/07 13:53:19 UTC
[FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
I just created this page on the wiki:
http://outerthought.net/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=ExploringTheLogs
as usual, comments/enhancements are welcome!
And by the way, it's great to see all the recent wiki contributions! There is
definitely stuff there that deserves to be moved to the main docs (once they
are Forrested I think).
-Bertrand
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thursday 07 November 2002 18:34, Stephan Michels wrote:
>. . .
> Just for your information, I currently rewrite the parser to
> decouple the text scaner from the parser, and for some other things.
>. . .
Sounds very interesting, maybe a custom text scanner before a real parser
would do the job nicely.
Thanks for the info!
-Bertrand
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Thursday 07 November 2002 17:52, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >. . .
> > We can import the wiki sources and use that, with the Chaperon stuff.
> >
> > Imagine that we have a system that gets all wiki pages and transforms
> > them in Forrest format...
> >. .
>
> Certainly cool, but are you confident about implementing the complete JSPWiki
> grammar using Chaperon? Maybe talking the JSPWiki guys into refactoring their
> parser to make it standalone (and use it in Cocoon) would be an option?
>
> Not to downplay Chaperon in any way, but from what I've seen most wiki
> systems use regular-expression based "text analyzers", which are "fuzzier"
> than real parsers like Chaperon and might be more suited to wiki text parsing.
Just for your information, I currently rewrite the parser to
decouple the text scaner from the parser, and for some other things.
So one transformer, I have planed, is a text 'tokenizer' for
e.g. colorize source code. But I don't think that a simple 'text
analyzers' will help you.
> I haven't heard from the wikiland project for a while, but it seems like they
> were having problems with this [1].
>
> -Bertrand
>
> [1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.wiki.wikiland/32
>
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thursday 07 November 2002 17:52, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>. . .
> We can import the wiki sources and use that, with the Chaperon stuff.
>
> Imagine that we have a system that gets all wiki pages and transforms
> them in Forrest format...
>. .
Certainly cool, but are you confident about implementing the complete JSPWiki
grammar using Chaperon? Maybe talking the JSPWiki guys into refactoring their
parser to make it standalone (and use it in Cocoon) would be an option?
Not to downplay Chaperon in any way, but from what I've seen most wiki
systems use regular-expression based "text analyzers", which are "fuzzier"
than real parsers like Chaperon and might be more suited to wiki text parsing.
I haven't heard from the wikiland project for a while, but it seems like they
were having problems with this [1].
-Bertrand
[1] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.wiki.wikiland/32
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Thursday 07 November 2002 17:28, Diana Shannon wrote:
>
>>. . .
>>It will be a lot easier if we had a comprehensive grammar to go from
>>wiki docs direct to document-v11.
>>. . .
>
>
> Writing an XSLT transform to extract structure from wiki text shouldn't be
> hard. I don't have time to try right now but the HTML generated by JSPWiki is
> very predictable, with the page contents included in a <TD CLASS="PAGE">.
> Using a pipeline that starts with HTMLGenerator should do the job
> nicely.
We can import the wiki sources and use that, with the Chaperon stuff.
Imagine that we have a system that gets all wiki pages and transforms
them in Forrest format...
Oh well, for the future...
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thursday 07 November 2002 17:28, Diana Shannon wrote:
>. . .
> It will be a lot easier if we had a comprehensive grammar to go from
> wiki docs direct to document-v11.
>. . .
Writing an XSLT transform to extract structure from wiki text shouldn't be
hard. I don't have time to try right now but the HTML generated by JSPWiki is
very predictable, with the page contents included in a <TD CLASS="PAGE">.
Using a pipeline that starts with HTMLGenerator should do the job
nicely.
> . . .I'd say if docs are deserving, they should move to the cvs asap...
No problem if you want to go ahead. I'd suggest clearly marking moved wiki to
let people know.
>. . .Should deserving candidates be proposed on:
> http://outerthought.net/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=CocoonDocsDrafts
>. . .
That was my idea. There are some pages mentioned there but I think only
"ExploringTheLogs" could be a real candidate now. And it hasn't been much
tested yet, I put it up a few hours ago...OTOH there are probably much more
pages that deserve to move, if you dig deeper in the wiki.
-Bertrand
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Diana Shannon <sh...@apache.org>.
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 11:12 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Assuming Forrestification takes place soon, I think it might take less
> effort
> to wait for it to be done before moving docs from Wiki to CVS.
It will be a lot easier if we had a comprehensive grammar to go from
wiki docs direct to document-v11. (Sorry, but I still haven't had a
second to evaluate Ken's recent Forrest commits related to this which
appear quite promising. ) Until then, there will be holes to fill
manually because the current wiki grammar is but a subset of
document-v11.
> Otherwise we might have to do some tasks twice, like converting from
> Wiki to
> current document DTD and later from this to document-v11?
Yes, but we automated this a while back so it's no major deal. We can
perform a batch transformation on all docs at once when we transition.
I'd say if docs are deserving, they should move to the cvs asap. This is
the kind of work that best fits my committer availability (blocks of
time for batch work, not day-to-day availability). Should deserving
candidates be proposed on:
http://outerthought.net/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=CocoonDocsDrafts
or similar?
Diana
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.
On Thursday 07 November 2002 17:04, Diana Shannon wrote:
>. . .
> I'm curious. Why do you think we should wait for Forrestation if the
> docs are deserving now?
Assuming Forrestification takes place soon, I think it might take less effort
to wait for it to be done before moving docs from Wiki to CVS.
Otherwise we might have to do some tasks twice, like converting from Wiki to
current document DTD and later from this to document-v11?
-Bertrand
Re: [FYI] ExploringTheLogs - how to make sense of the Cocoon logs
Posted by Diana Shannon <sh...@apache.org>.
On Thursday, November 7, 2002, at 07:53 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> There is
> definitely stuff there that deserves to be moved to the main docs (once
> they
> are Forrested I think).
I'm curious. Why do you think we should wait for Forrestation if the
docs are deserving now?
Diana