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Posted to dev@cxf.apache.org by Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> on 2011/02/27 08:31:21 UTC
Abusive/harrassing off-list emails
Folks, if Jeff Genender--or anyone else--is sending any other committers
hateful or harrassing emails behind-the-scenes like what I got below
from him on Friday, feel free to forward the email directly to the
cxf-dev list for all to see. No committer has the right to be
harrassing other committers behind-the-scenes and insisting on anonymity
while doing so.
Further, all charges made behind-the-scenes by Jeff to another committer
can be taken to the dev list, *if* desired by the person receiving the
charge, in order to properly air out and defend himself against the
charge, possibly with the help of other team members. Contrary to what
Jeff is implying below, you are always most welcome to go public on
charges made privately against you if doing so helps you defend yourself
against the charge. You do not need Jeff's permission to go public on
charges he decides to press against you privately.
Finally, contrary to how he may arrogantly act, Jeff is a mostly
inactive committer on the CXF project, and has no special ranking or
standing on the team compared to any other CXF committer. His ASF
membership does not grant him additional powers to be judging people
behind the scenes or to magically strip people of their committership.
Do not be cowed by his threats, whether implicit or direct, as I
received from him below.
Regards,
Glen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [offlist again and no, onlist is not fine!] Re: [onlist is
fine!] Re: [offlist] Re: SOAP over JMS and CXF.
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 04:11:50 +0100
From: Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>
To: Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com>
CC: Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>
Hi Glen!
You are right, I didn't have to go off list. I sent you the private
email out of respect to you. But that clearly was all for naught - what
an idiot I am, eh? ;-) I guess I really didn't need to be too concerned
about you getting your dirty laundry aired in the public as you did a
fine job of doing that yourself. What you fail to realize is that
Google has a way of not forgetting certain things... and unfortunately
it will be to your detriment and loss. But, no worries, you did this by
your own accord and I can at least look in the mirror knowing that I at
least tried to do the right thing ;-)
Additionally, I also try to make it a point not to post private emails
w/o all parties' permission (thats kind of an unwritten law at Apache as
well as personal respect), but I am also careful to be sure that what I
do say privately is nothing that will reflect on me or come back to bite
me in the culo... I'm sure you remember the Wikileaks debacle ;-)
Unfortunately, your "overstepping" has occurred more than just today,
Glen, and you need to get your respect for the community in check and
watch what you write [2]. You have been called out a couple of times by
the PMC chair which is a red flag that you are acting out of sorts. I
don't know what is going on in your personal life, but you need to keep
your issues from damaging the CXF community.
So I am personally asking you as a CXF community member to please check
yourself and if you need to have a tantrum, bring it offlist or into the
PMC or maybe to your employer and we can take care of it there. Your
out-lashing and disrespect for others is not appropriate behavior and it
hurts our community. Lets move along, shall we?
Jeff
[2]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/cxf-dev/201102.mbox/%3c4D4A2A9C.70207@talend.com%3e
--
Glen Mazza
Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
Re: Handling off-list emails
Posted by Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com>.
Thanks, appreciate it!
On 2/28/2011 4:40 PM, Jeff Genender wrote:
> Forgiven. Thanks for the apology.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>
>> Agreed. The CXF PMC also held that Jeff's email simply didn't reach a level warranting public airing, given the general view--in which I've grown more in agreement with--that *no* email warrants such airing. Any types of questionable emails are best sent to the internal private@cxf.apache.org lists anyway for proper handling.
>>
>> Further, I'd have to offer a huge caveat that my advice was non-lawyerly, as you'd probably also have to look into libel and/or invasion of privacy issues depending on the contents of the email publicly disclosed. Such actions are rarely a good idea.
>>
>> I apologize to Jeff for any grandstanding on my part over his email, as well as the dev list airing of it, and most especially, any false implication that bothersome emails are common from him. I hope he'll forgive me for it.
>>
>> Thanks Craig.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On 2/27/2011 9:21 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote:
>>> I'm still waiting to see one of the "abusive" emails you speak of Glen. So far you just kind of come off as a goof.
>>>
>>> And enough with the "inactive" jabs, Jeff's paid his dues. You don't question a Sensei's belt just because you weren't around when he was competing.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>
--
Glen Mazza
Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
Re: Handling off-list emails
Posted by Jeff Genender <jg...@apache.org>.
Forgiven. Thanks for the apology.
Jeff
On Feb 28, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
> Agreed. The CXF PMC also held that Jeff's email simply didn't reach a level warranting public airing, given the general view--in which I've grown more in agreement with--that *no* email warrants such airing. Any types of questionable emails are best sent to the internal private@cxf.apache.org lists anyway for proper handling.
>
> Further, I'd have to offer a huge caveat that my advice was non-lawyerly, as you'd probably also have to look into libel and/or invasion of privacy issues depending on the contents of the email publicly disclosed. Such actions are rarely a good idea.
>
> I apologize to Jeff for any grandstanding on my part over his email, as well as the dev list airing of it, and most especially, any false implication that bothersome emails are common from him. I hope he'll forgive me for it.
>
> Thanks Craig.
>
> Glen
>
> On 2/27/2011 9:21 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote:
>> I'm still waiting to see one of the "abusive" emails you speak of Glen. So far you just kind of come off as a goof.
>>
>> And enough with the "inactive" jabs, Jeff's paid his dues. You don't question a Sensei's belt just because you weren't around when he was competing.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>
>
Handling off-list emails
Posted by Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com>.
Agreed. The CXF PMC also held that Jeff's email simply didn't reach a
level warranting public airing, given the general view--in which I've
grown more in agreement with--that *no* email warrants such airing. Any
types of questionable emails are best sent to the internal
private@cxf.apache.org lists anyway for proper handling.
Further, I'd have to offer a huge caveat that my advice was
non-lawyerly, as you'd probably also have to look into libel and/or
invasion of privacy issues depending on the contents of the email
publicly disclosed. Such actions are rarely a good idea.
I apologize to Jeff for any grandstanding on my part over his email, as
well as the dev list airing of it, and most especially, any false
implication that bothersome emails are common from him. I hope he'll
forgive me for it.
Thanks Craig.
Glen
On 2/27/2011 9:21 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote:
> I'm still waiting to see one of the "abusive" emails you speak of Glen. So far you just kind of come off as a goof.
>
> And enough with the "inactive" jabs, Jeff's paid his dues. You don't question a Sensei's belt just because you weren't around when he was competing.
>
> Craig
>
Re: Abusive/harrassing off-list emails
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
I plead with all and sundry to back off from this unedifying spectacle.
If someone posts something on a public list you don't like, start by
politely calling it out on the dev list. If you don't get an answer
that satisfies you, head for private@. If you think something truly
awful is going on, or you aren't a PMC member, ping Dan.
I, for one, am going to try really hard to pretend that I didn't read
any of this, since it makes my eyeballs hurt.
Re: Abusive/harrassing off-list emails
Posted by Craig Tataryn <cr...@tataryn.net>.
I'm still waiting to see one of the "abusive" emails you speak of Glen. So far you just kind of come off as a goof.
And enough with the "inactive" jabs, Jeff's paid his dues. You don't question a Sensei's belt just because you weren't around when he was competing.
Craig
On 2011-02-27, at 2:10 AM, Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com> wrote:
> Yes, warning shots prior to sending are fair. I just don't want people intimidated from going public if they feel they need to. This is an ASF-wide issue, not just a CXF one.
>
> Glen
>
> On 2/27/2011 2:52 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>> Hi Glen,
>>
>> as a last resort this may be a way to go. My advice is to fire a warning
>> shot before sending to the list. If someone is harrassing you off list
>> then a correct way of handling this is sending him a mail that you do
>> not want to communicate with him off list and that you will forward any
>> future rude mail to the list. Then he can not expect that any further
>> communication is private.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> I do not want to judge what happened between Jeff and you as I do not
>> know all the details. So I can only ask both of you to try to bring this
>> back to a normal level.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> Am 27.02.2011 08:31, schrieb Glen Mazza:
>>> Folks, if Jeff Genender--or anyone else--is sending any other
>>> committers hateful or harrassing emails behind-the-scenes like what I
>>> got below from him on Friday, feel free to forward the email directly
>>> to the cxf-dev list for all to see. No committer has the right to be
>>> harrassing other committers behind-the-scenes and insisting on
>>> anonymity while doing so.
>>>
>>> Further, all charges made behind-the-scenes by Jeff to another
>>> committer can be taken to the dev list, *if* desired by the person
>>> receiving the charge, in order to properly air out and defend himself
>>> against the charge, possibly with the help of other team members.
>>> Contrary to what Jeff is implying below, you are always most welcome
>>> to go public on charges made privately against you if doing so helps
>>> you defend yourself against the charge. You do not need Jeff's
>>> permission to go public on charges he decides to press against you
>>> privately.
>>>
>>> Finally, contrary to how he may arrogantly act, Jeff is a mostly
>>> inactive committer on the CXF project, and has no special ranking or
>>> standing on the team compared to any other CXF committer. His ASF
>>> membership does not grant him additional powers to be judging people
>>> behind the scenes or to magically strip people of their
>>> committership. Do not be cowed by his threats, whether implicit or
>>> direct, as I received from him below.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Glen
>
>
> --
> Glen Mazza
> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>
>
Re: Abusive/harrassing off-list emails
Posted by Glen Mazza <gm...@talend.com>.
Yes, warning shots prior to sending are fair. I just don't want people
intimidated from going public if they feel they need to. This is an
ASF-wide issue, not just a CXF one.
Glen
On 2/27/2011 2:52 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
> Hi Glen,
>
> as a last resort this may be a way to go. My advice is to fire a warning
> shot before sending to the list. If someone is harrassing you off list
> then a correct way of handling this is sending him a mail that you do
> not want to communicate with him off list and that you will forward any
> future rude mail to the list. Then he can not expect that any further
> communication is private.
>
> What do you think?
>
> I do not want to judge what happened between Jeff and you as I do not
> know all the details. So I can only ask both of you to try to bring this
> back to a normal level.
>
> Christian
>
> Am 27.02.2011 08:31, schrieb Glen Mazza:
>> Folks, if Jeff Genender--or anyone else--is sending any other
>> committers hateful or harrassing emails behind-the-scenes like what I
>> got below from him on Friday, feel free to forward the email directly
>> to the cxf-dev list for all to see. No committer has the right to be
>> harrassing other committers behind-the-scenes and insisting on
>> anonymity while doing so.
>>
>> Further, all charges made behind-the-scenes by Jeff to another
>> committer can be taken to the dev list, *if* desired by the person
>> receiving the charge, in order to properly air out and defend himself
>> against the charge, possibly with the help of other team members.
>> Contrary to what Jeff is implying below, you are always most welcome
>> to go public on charges made privately against you if doing so helps
>> you defend yourself against the charge. You do not need Jeff's
>> permission to go public on charges he decides to press against you
>> privately.
>>
>> Finally, contrary to how he may arrogantly act, Jeff is a mostly
>> inactive committer on the CXF project, and has no special ranking or
>> standing on the team compared to any other CXF committer. His ASF
>> membership does not grant him additional powers to be judging people
>> behind the scenes or to magically strip people of their
>> committership. Do not be cowed by his threats, whether implicit or
>> direct, as I received from him below.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Glen
--
Glen Mazza
Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
Re: Abusive/harrassing off-list emails
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
Hi Glen,
as a last resort this may be a way to go. My advice is to fire a warning
shot before sending to the list. If someone is harrassing you off list
then a correct way of handling this is sending him a mail that you do
not want to communicate with him off list and that you will forward any
future rude mail to the list. Then he can not expect that any further
communication is private.
What do you think?
I do not want to judge what happened between Jeff and you as I do not
know all the details. So I can only ask both of you to try to bring this
back to a normal level.
Christian
Am 27.02.2011 08:31, schrieb Glen Mazza:
> Folks, if Jeff Genender--or anyone else--is sending any other
> committers hateful or harrassing emails behind-the-scenes like what I
> got below from him on Friday, feel free to forward the email directly
> to the cxf-dev list for all to see. No committer has the right to be
> harrassing other committers behind-the-scenes and insisting on
> anonymity while doing so.
>
> Further, all charges made behind-the-scenes by Jeff to another
> committer can be taken to the dev list, *if* desired by the person
> receiving the charge, in order to properly air out and defend himself
> against the charge, possibly with the help of other team members.
> Contrary to what Jeff is implying below, you are always most welcome
> to go public on charges made privately against you if doing so helps
> you defend yourself against the charge. You do not need Jeff's
> permission to go public on charges he decides to press against you
> privately.
>
> Finally, contrary to how he may arrogantly act, Jeff is a mostly
> inactive committer on the CXF project, and has no special ranking or
> standing on the team compared to any other CXF committer. His ASF
> membership does not grant him additional powers to be judging people
> behind the scenes or to magically strip people of their
> committership. Do not be cowed by his threats, whether implicit or
> direct, as I received from him below.
>
> Regards,
> Glen
--
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de