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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Italo Vignoli <it...@gmail.com> on 2011/06/05 13:30:43 UTC
End Users ?
I have lurked at the mailing list over the last four days, as I was away
on a short break. Using a smartphone has not made my life easier, but I
have been able to read most of the relevant messages.
I am a founding member of TDF, and a member of the SC, but first and
foremost I am an end user. I am not a developer, I do not write docs, I
am not able to do QA tests (to me, a bug is a feature, although in the
wrong direction), I am not able to localize SW, and so on. To make it
short, I am basically useless for a SW project.
So, after having read hundreds of emails discussing the merits of
different licenses and processes, concentrating on the geography where
the code should live (basically, US vs EU, or Delaware vs Germany), I am
asking a very simple question: what about end users?
OOo has over 100 million of end users, who use the SW for their basic
needs (write a letter, produce an expense note, build slides, manage
their address book, and so on).
What is going to happen to these guys, apart from the fact that if they
prefer to use OOo over LibreOffice - which is perfectly acceptable - it
is still not clear (but here I might just have missed some bit of info)
if and when they will be able to install a new version of the SW?
I understand - but I might be wrong - that ASF is not used to deal with
such a huge end user base (actually, the third in terms of absolute size
after MS Windows and MS Office).
In the past, not even IBM with Lotus SmartSuite has been able to reach
that size of user base, while the OOo community - not Sun, not Oracle -
has been able to grow and nurture it.
Just a heads up, not to forget the end users.
--
Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation
email italo.vignoli@documentfoundation.org
phone +39.348.5653829 - VoIP +39.02.320621813
skype italovignoli - italo.vignoli@gmail.com
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Re: End Users ?
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 5 June 2011 20:04, <ro...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
So I agree that supporting end users is critical, but I think the way that
> this is done in practice, does not necessarily require great centralized
> planning.
I'd say too much centralised planning for end user support is probably a
backward step. We do certification which encourages end-users to become
more self-sufficient. We could do that unilaterally but we do want to put
something back. OOo marketing project has mainly been successful through
individual initiatives rather than great centralised plans - apart from
anything else the money required for global marketing campaigns simply
doesn't exist. End-user support is more through projects like OOoAuthors,
Solveig Haugland and Gabriel Gurley's books, the competiton we ran for kids
with OOo schools mascot Otto. I don't see any reason why such things and
more will not get supported simply because the code is with the ASF.
Re: End Users ?
Posted by ro...@us.ibm.com.
Italo Vignoli <it...@gmail.com> wrote on 06/05/2011 07:30:43 AM:
.
.
.
> So, after having read hundreds of emails discussing the merits of
> different licenses and processes, concentrating on the geography where
> the code should live (basically, US vs EU, or Delaware vs Germany), I am
> asking a very simple question: what about end users?
>
> OOo has over 100 million of end users, who use the SW for their basic
> needs (write a letter, produce an expense note, build slides, manage
> their address book, and so on).
>
> What is going to happen to these guys, apart from the fact that if they
> prefer to use OOo over LibreOffice - which is perfectly acceptable - it
> is still not clear (but here I might just have missed some bit of info)
> if and when they will be able to install a new version of the SW?
>
> I understand - but I might be wrong - that ASF is not used to deal with
> such a huge end user base (actually, the third in terms of absolute size
> after MS Windows and MS Office).
>
I'd like us to think beyond the user base of OOo/LO today. I'd like us to
think of the entire market for personal productivity editors, including
users of MS Office, Corel WordPerfect, etc.
Today, the vast majority of this market uses commercial office suite,
e.g., MS Office. They pay for software licenses and get a supported
product. A smaller number uses a pure open source office suite, e.g.,
OOo/LO. And some in a middle tier use a proprietary office suite built
upon open source, e.g., StarOffice, Symphony.
So three tiers:
1) Purely proprietary
2) Mixed
3) Purely open source
The role of an Apache project is in that 3rd tier. There will be users
who consume Apache product deliverables directly, and we'll have user
forums, and documentation and FAQ's and various other resources to help
them, just as OpenOffice.org has always done.
There may also be third parties to take the tier 3 packages and bundle
them with support packages, migration/deployment consulting services,
training, etc.
The mixed tier will consist of those products that take Apache OpenOffice
and combine with it proprietary code and license it commercially. This
might be for free (as in beer), like Symphony, or it might be sold.
The entirely proprietary tier is not really any concern to this project.
So my guess is what we're going to see over the next 5 years is that the
middle tier will grow at the expense of the purely proprietary tier.
Although there are certainly many individuals who are happy to get 48 hour
turnaround on questions posted to a user forum, there is also a class of
user, generally the enterprise user, that needs a phone number to call for
immediate support, who needs to have a critical patch delivered to them on
short notice, who needs additional customization services.
All of this should be familiar to Apache members. This kind of ecosystem
to support users is common with many Apache projects. This market-driven
approach works quite well in practice. The users who need premium support
have ways of getting it, and those who invest their time in the project
and gain great expertise have a way of earning some money from that
expertise, by developing products and services in the middle tier.
So I agree that supporting end users is critical, but I think the way that
this is done in practice, does not necessarily require great centralized
planning. We're not a proprietary product that requires that we do 100%
of the support. We can allow and encourage the ecosystem to fill in some
of these pieces.
So net, I think the level of end user resources we have currently on
OpenOffice.org web site will be our start. And we'll expect that mixed
tier offerings will offer premium support/services.
Regards,
-Rob
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Re: End Users ?
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
It has been said that Apache is a developer-centric org, and
relative to other orgs that is probably not too far off. However
OOo's user community will be important for us to preserve,
nurture, and grow as we start moving the services over to equipment
managed by the ASF.
If the concern is about existing services provided by the OOo domain,
my hope is that in the near future we will transfer control of the
domain to the ASF, and subsequently migrate the existing services
largely unchanged from their existing URLs.
If there are concerns beyond that, please specify what those are
and I'll try to answer as best as I can.
----- Original Message ----
> From: Italo Vignoli <it...@gmail.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Sun, June 5, 2011 7:30:43 AM
> Subject: End Users ?
>
> I have lurked at the mailing list over the last four days, as I was away on a
>short break. Using a smartphone has not made my life easier, but I have been
>able to read most of the relevant messages.
>
> I am a founding member of TDF, and a member of the SC, but first and foremost
>I am an end user. I am not a developer, I do not write docs, I am not able to
>do QA tests (to me, a bug is a feature, although in the wrong direction), I am
>not able to localize SW, and so on. To make it short, I am basically useless
>for a SW project.
>
> So, after having read hundreds of emails discussing the merits of different
>licenses and processes, concentrating on the geography where the code should
>live (basically, US vs EU, or Delaware vs Germany), I am asking a very simple
>question: what about end users?
>
> OOo has over 100 million of end users, who use the SW for their basic needs
>(write a letter, produce an expense note, build slides, manage their address
>book, and so on).
>
> What is going to happen to these guys, apart from the fact that if they prefer
>to use OOo over LibreOffice - which is perfectly acceptable - it is still not
>clear (but here I might just have missed some bit of info) if and when they
>will be able to install a new version of the SW?
>
> I understand - but I might be wrong - that ASF is not used to deal with such a
>huge end user base (actually, the third in terms of absolute size after MS
>Windows and MS Office).
>
> In the past, not even IBM with Lotus SmartSuite has been able to reach that
>size of user base, while the OOo community - not Sun, not Oracle - has been
>able to grow and nurture it.
>
> Just a heads up, not to forget the end users.
>
> -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation
> email italo.vignoli@documentfoundation.org
> phone +39.348.5653829 - VoIP +39.02.320621813
> skype italovignoli - italo.vignoli@gmail.com
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
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