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Posted to dev@brooklyn.apache.org by Duncan Godwin <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com> on 2017/01/19 15:17:44 UTC
Default VM Image
Hi All,
Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04 LTS
images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
BrooklynImageChooser here:
https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and I
think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7. It
therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score to
favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
Many thanks
Duncan
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Guglielmo Nigri <gu...@cloudsoftcorp.com>.
Agree with Mark McKenna's proposal to make it configurable.
No strong opinion on what the default value should be, though. Maybe Ubuntu
14.04, for compatibility with blueprints that assume Ubuntu. Any examples
of those in the wild?
Guglielmo Nigri
Senior Engineer @ Cloudsoft Corporation
On 19 January 2017 at 17:12, Mark Mc Kenna <m4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> + 1 IMO centos is a much better defualt
>
> BUT I would go one further and make the image chooser configurable so this
> behaviour can be changed by users in brooklyn.properties
>
> *Mark McKenna*
>
> *Web :: markmckenna.ie <http://markmckenna.ie/>*
>
> *Work :: mark.mckenna@cloudsoft.io <ma...@cloudsoft.io>*
>
> *PGP :: A7A9 24DE 638C 681A 8DEA FAD4 2B5D C759 B1EB 76A7
> <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2B5DC759B1EB76A7>*
>
> On 19 January 2017 at 16:09, Duncan Godwin <duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.
> com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Richard
> >
> > I agree that we could do with information on what our users are using
> and a
> > message on this mailing list is the first step! :)
> >
> > So I think one of the main drivers for change should be that 12.04 LTS is
> > just about to go out of support. 14.04 LTS is no longer the latest LTS
> > Ubuntu version. The new version, 16.04 LTS has major changes (systemd
> etc)
> > which are likely to break a lot of blueprints anyway. If we are going to
> > change default OS choices, now would be a good time to do so.
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Duncan
> >
> > On 19 January 2017 at 15:56, Richard Downer <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Duncan,
> > >
> > > Do we have any data on what our users are using? That should be our
> > driver
> > > for change :-)
> > >
> > > I am a bit concerned what effect making this change would have on
> > existing
> > > blueprints that don't specify an OS requirement. If a user writes such
> a
> > > blueprint and makes it Ubuntu-dependent, would a default OS change
> > suddenly
> > > break their blueprint? Arguably the user should be explicit about their
> > OS
> > > requirements, but it doesn't look good if we change something
> fundamental
> > > like that.
> > >
> > > Richard.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 19 January 2017 at 15:17, Duncan Godwin
> <duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.
> > > com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
> > > >
> > > > Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04
> > LTS
> > > > images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> > > > BrooklynImageChooser here:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> > > > f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> > > > src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> > > > BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
> > > >
> > > > Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7
> and
> > I
> > > > think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS
> 7.
> > > It
> > > > therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser
> score
> > > to
> > > > favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks
> > > >
> > > > Duncan
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Duncan Grant <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com>.
All,
I've create a PR to make this change
https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/pull/544
Could someone please review it.
thanks
Duncan
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 at 17:32 Aled Sage <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> I don't know of anyone who would be negatively impacted by the defaults
> changing from ubuntu to centos.
>
> ---
>
> Switching from ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04 as the default ubuntu might well
> break some blueprints though (as I've seen examples that just use
> `osFamily: ubuntu`, without an explicit version).
>
> Whether that's acceptable, I'm not sure. If we give people a clear
> announcement and a workaround, then I'd be ok with it.
>
> ---
>
> I work with several customers who generally stay very quiet on this
> list. I'll briefly summarise anonymously on their behalf!
>
> Anonymous Big Customer 1: they use CentOS 6 and Windows 2012-RC2; they
> are looking to support (or perhaps switch to) CentOS 7. They always use
> specific image ids and hardware profile ids. There is a lot of testing
> of stock Brooklyn blueprints against CentOS 6, along with various
> add-ons and private blueprints that they have.
>
> Anonymous Big Customer 2: they use RHEL 6; the majority of their
> blueprints are bespoke rather than those in brooklyn-library.
>
> Anonymous big Customer 3: usually use `osFamily: centos`, and also RHEL
> for production with imageId of a specific hardened image. Some use of
> ubuntu in other business units and for some specific blueprints.
> However, they don't rely the default image so would be unaffected by the
> change.
>
> ---
>
> Cloudsoft do the majority of their QA of Apache Brooklyn using CentOS 7
> for testing of entities (though also do some testing on Ubuntu).
>
> ---
>
> Clocker: this open-source project is built on Apache Brooklyn; it uses
> CentOS 7.
>
> ---
>
> Some other example blueprints:
>
> * Spark (https://github.com/brooklyncentral/brooklyn-spark) uses
> Ubuntu, but forces this by using `osFamily: ubuntu` so would be
> unaffected by changes in the defaults)
> * ELK (https://github.com/brooklyncentral/brooklyn-elk) uses Ubuntu,
> but again forces it using `osFamily: ubuntu`
> * Ambari (https://github.com/brooklyncentral/brooklyn-ambari)
> recommends `osFamily: ubuntu`.
>
> Aled
>
>
> On 19/01/2017 16:12, Mark Mc Kenna wrote:
> > + 1 IMO centos is a much better defualt
> >
> > BUT I would go one further and make the image chooser configurable so
> this
> > behaviour can be changed by users in brooklyn.properties
> >
> > *Mark McKenna*
> >
> > *Web :: markmckenna.ie <http://markmckenna.ie/>*
> >
> > *Work :: mark.mckenna@cloudsoft.io <ma...@cloudsoft.io>*
> >
> > *PGP :: A7A9 24DE 638C 681A 8DEA FAD4 2B5D C759 B1EB 76A7
> > <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2B5DC759B1EB76A7>*
> >
> > On 19 January 2017 at 16:09, Duncan Godwin <
> duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Richard
> >>
> >> I agree that we could do with information on what our users are using
> and a
> >> message on this mailing list is the first step! :)
> >>
> >> So I think one of the main drivers for change should be that 12.04 LTS
> is
> >> just about to go out of support. 14.04 LTS is no longer the latest LTS
> >> Ubuntu version. The new version, 16.04 LTS has major changes (systemd
> etc)
> >> which are likely to break a lot of blueprints anyway. If we are going to
> >> change default OS choices, now would be a good time to do so.
> >>
> >> Many thanks
> >>
> >> Duncan
> >>
> >> On 19 January 2017 at 15:56, Richard Downer <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Duncan,
> >>>
> >>> Do we have any data on what our users are using? That should be our
> >> driver
> >>> for change :-)
> >>>
> >>> I am a bit concerned what effect making this change would have on
> >> existing
> >>> blueprints that don't specify an OS requirement. If a user writes such
> a
> >>> blueprint and makes it Ubuntu-dependent, would a default OS change
> >> suddenly
> >>> break their blueprint? Arguably the user should be explicit about their
> >> OS
> >>> requirements, but it doesn't look good if we change something
> fundamental
> >>> like that.
> >>>
> >>> Richard.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 19 January 2017 at 15:17, Duncan Godwin
> <duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.
> >>> com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04
> >> LTS
> >>>> images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> >>>> BrooklynImageChooser here:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> >>>> f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> >>>> src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> >>>> BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
> >>>>
> >>>> Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and
> >> I
> >>>> think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS
> 7.
> >>> It
> >>>> therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser
> score
> >>> to
> >>>> favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
> >>>>
> >>>> Many thanks
> >>>>
> >>>> Duncan
> >>>>
>
>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Aled Sage <al...@gmail.com>.
+1
I don't know of anyone who would be negatively impacted by the defaults
changing from ubuntu to centos.
---
Switching from ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04 as the default ubuntu might well
break some blueprints though (as I've seen examples that just use
`osFamily: ubuntu`, without an explicit version).
Whether that's acceptable, I'm not sure. If we give people a clear
announcement and a workaround, then I'd be ok with it.
---
I work with several customers who generally stay very quiet on this
list. I'll briefly summarise anonymously on their behalf!
Anonymous Big Customer 1: they use CentOS 6 and Windows 2012-RC2; they
are looking to support (or perhaps switch to) CentOS 7. They always use
specific image ids and hardware profile ids. There is a lot of testing
of stock Brooklyn blueprints against CentOS 6, along with various
add-ons and private blueprints that they have.
Anonymous Big Customer 2: they use RHEL 6; the majority of their
blueprints are bespoke rather than those in brooklyn-library.
Anonymous big Customer 3: usually use `osFamily: centos`, and also RHEL
for production with imageId of a specific hardened image. Some use of
ubuntu in other business units and for some specific blueprints.
However, they don't rely the default image so would be unaffected by the
change.
---
Cloudsoft do the majority of their QA of Apache Brooklyn using CentOS 7
for testing of entities (though also do some testing on Ubuntu).
---
Clocker: this open-source project is built on Apache Brooklyn; it uses
CentOS 7.
---
Some other example blueprints:
* Spark (https://github.com/brooklyncentral/brooklyn-spark) uses
Ubuntu, but forces this by using `osFamily: ubuntu` so would be
unaffected by changes in the defaults)
* ELK (https://github.com/brooklyncentral/brooklyn-elk) uses Ubuntu,
but again forces it using `osFamily: ubuntu`
* Ambari (https://github.com/brooklyncentral/brooklyn-ambari)
recommends `osFamily: ubuntu`.
Aled
On 19/01/2017 16:12, Mark Mc Kenna wrote:
> + 1 IMO centos is a much better defualt
>
> BUT I would go one further and make the image chooser configurable so this
> behaviour can be changed by users in brooklyn.properties
>
> *Mark McKenna*
>
> *Web :: markmckenna.ie <http://markmckenna.ie/>*
>
> *Work :: mark.mckenna@cloudsoft.io <ma...@cloudsoft.io>*
>
> *PGP :: A7A9 24DE 638C 681A 8DEA FAD4 2B5D C759 B1EB 76A7
> <https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2B5DC759B1EB76A7>*
>
> On 19 January 2017 at 16:09, Duncan Godwin <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Richard
>>
>> I agree that we could do with information on what our users are using and a
>> message on this mailing list is the first step! :)
>>
>> So I think one of the main drivers for change should be that 12.04 LTS is
>> just about to go out of support. 14.04 LTS is no longer the latest LTS
>> Ubuntu version. The new version, 16.04 LTS has major changes (systemd etc)
>> which are likely to break a lot of blueprints anyway. If we are going to
>> change default OS choices, now would be a good time to do so.
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Duncan
>>
>> On 19 January 2017 at 15:56, Richard Downer <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Duncan,
>>>
>>> Do we have any data on what our users are using? That should be our
>> driver
>>> for change :-)
>>>
>>> I am a bit concerned what effect making this change would have on
>> existing
>>> blueprints that don't specify an OS requirement. If a user writes such a
>>> blueprint and makes it Ubuntu-dependent, would a default OS change
>> suddenly
>>> break their blueprint? Arguably the user should be explicit about their
>> OS
>>> requirements, but it doesn't look good if we change something fundamental
>>> like that.
>>>
>>> Richard.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 January 2017 at 15:17, Duncan Godwin <duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.
>>> com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
>>>>
>>>> Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04
>> LTS
>>>> images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
>>>> BrooklynImageChooser here:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
>>>> f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
>>>> src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
>>>> BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
>>>>
>>>> Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and
>> I
>>>> think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7.
>>> It
>>>> therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score
>>> to
>>>> favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks
>>>>
>>>> Duncan
>>>>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Mark Mc Kenna <m4...@gmail.com>.
+ 1 IMO centos is a much better defualt
BUT I would go one further and make the image chooser configurable so this
behaviour can be changed by users in brooklyn.properties
*Mark McKenna*
*Web :: markmckenna.ie <http://markmckenna.ie/>*
*Work :: mark.mckenna@cloudsoft.io <ma...@cloudsoft.io>*
*PGP :: A7A9 24DE 638C 681A 8DEA FAD4 2B5D C759 B1EB 76A7
<https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2B5DC759B1EB76A7>*
On 19 January 2017 at 16:09, Duncan Godwin <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com>
wrote:
> Hi Richard
>
> I agree that we could do with information on what our users are using and a
> message on this mailing list is the first step! :)
>
> So I think one of the main drivers for change should be that 12.04 LTS is
> just about to go out of support. 14.04 LTS is no longer the latest LTS
> Ubuntu version. The new version, 16.04 LTS has major changes (systemd etc)
> which are likely to break a lot of blueprints anyway. If we are going to
> change default OS choices, now would be a good time to do so.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Duncan
>
> On 19 January 2017 at 15:56, Richard Downer <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Duncan,
> >
> > Do we have any data on what our users are using? That should be our
> driver
> > for change :-)
> >
> > I am a bit concerned what effect making this change would have on
> existing
> > blueprints that don't specify an OS requirement. If a user writes such a
> > blueprint and makes it Ubuntu-dependent, would a default OS change
> suddenly
> > break their blueprint? Arguably the user should be explicit about their
> OS
> > requirements, but it doesn't look good if we change something fundamental
> > like that.
> >
> > Richard.
> >
> >
> > On 19 January 2017 at 15:17, Duncan Godwin <duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.
> > com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
> > >
> > > Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04
> LTS
> > > images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> > > BrooklynImageChooser here:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> > > f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> > > src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> > > BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
> > >
> > > Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and
> I
> > > think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7.
> > It
> > > therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score
> > to
> > > favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
> > >
> > > Many thanks
> > >
> > > Duncan
> > >
> >
>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Duncan Godwin <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com>.
Hi Richard
I agree that we could do with information on what our users are using and a
message on this mailing list is the first step! :)
So I think one of the main drivers for change should be that 12.04 LTS is
just about to go out of support. 14.04 LTS is no longer the latest LTS
Ubuntu version. The new version, 16.04 LTS has major changes (systemd etc)
which are likely to break a lot of blueprints anyway. If we are going to
change default OS choices, now would be a good time to do so.
Many thanks
Duncan
On 19 January 2017 at 15:56, Richard Downer <ri...@apache.org> wrote:
> Duncan,
>
> Do we have any data on what our users are using? That should be our driver
> for change :-)
>
> I am a bit concerned what effect making this change would have on existing
> blueprints that don't specify an OS requirement. If a user writes such a
> blueprint and makes it Ubuntu-dependent, would a default OS change suddenly
> break their blueprint? Arguably the user should be explicit about their OS
> requirements, but it doesn't look good if we change something fundamental
> like that.
>
> Richard.
>
>
> On 19 January 2017 at 15:17, Duncan Godwin <duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.
> com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
> >
> > Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04 LTS
> > images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> > BrooklynImageChooser here:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> > f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> > src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> > BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
> >
> > Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and I
> > think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7.
> It
> > therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score
> to
> > favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Duncan
> >
>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Richard Downer <ri...@apache.org>.
Duncan,
Do we have any data on what our users are using? That should be our driver
for change :-)
I am a bit concerned what effect making this change would have on existing
blueprints that don't specify an OS requirement. If a user writes such a
blueprint and makes it Ubuntu-dependent, would a default OS change suddenly
break their blueprint? Arguably the user should be explicit about their OS
requirements, but it doesn't look good if we change something fundamental
like that.
Richard.
On 19 January 2017 at 15:17, Duncan Godwin <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
>
> Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04 LTS
> images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> BrooklynImageChooser here:
>
> https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
>
> Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and I
> think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7. It
> therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score to
> favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Duncan
>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Geoff Macartney <ge...@cloudsoftcorp.com>.
Makes sense I guess; there have been some issues with Ubuntu 16.04 (at
least with Vagrant) so Centos as default might be better than Ubuntu 16?
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 at 15:37 Aleksandr Vasilev <
aleksandr.vasilev@cloudsoftcorp.com> wrote:
> I'm in favor of adding Ubuntu 16.04 and CentOS 7 with score setting higher
> than previous versions.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Aleksandr Vasilev
> DevOps Engineer | Cloudsoft Corporation
>
> On 20 January 2017 at 00:17, Duncan Godwin <
> duncan.godwin@cloudsoftcorp.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
> >
> > Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04 LTS
> > images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> > BrooklynImageChooser here:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> > f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> > src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> > BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
> >
> > Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and I
> > think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7.
> It
> > therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score
> to
> > favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Duncan
> >
>
Re: Default VM Image
Posted by Aleksandr Vasilev <al...@cloudsoftcorp.com>.
I'm in favor of adding Ubuntu 16.04 and CentOS 7 with score setting higher
than previous versions.
Best Regards,
Aleksandr Vasilev
DevOps Engineer | Cloudsoft Corporation
On 20 January 2017 at 00:17, Duncan Godwin <du...@cloudsoftcorp.com>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Should we change the default image to CentOS 7 over Ubuntu 14.04?
>
> Apache Brooklyn, by default currently favours Ubuntu 14.04 and 12.04 LTS
> images when no preference is selected. This is because of the code in
> BrooklynImageChooser here:
>
> https://github.com/apache/brooklyn-server/blob/
> f4281af2e40a9d12264c566a4b65fa6549238be5/locations/jclouds/
> src/main/java/org/apache/brooklyn/location/jclouds/
> BrooklynImageChooser.java#L138-L149
>
> Most of the blueprints in brooklyn-library seem to favour CentOS 7 and I
> think most of the Apache Brooklyn users are using and testing CentOS 7. It
> therefore seems to me to make sense to alter BrooklynImageChooser score to
> favour CentOS 7 based images. What does everyone think?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Duncan
>