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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> on 2013/06/09 16:04:49 UTC
Certified DEVs
I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
considering such a thing?
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On 6/9/13, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>
>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>>
>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the
>> TDF process:
>>
>> From the page you cite:
>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the
>>> Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the
>>> Engineering Steering Committee.
>>
>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is
>>> for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete
>>> nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of
>>> the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess
>>> if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements.
>>> If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us
>>> atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>>
>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like"
>> comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>>
>
> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
>
> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
>
>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X
>> commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported
>> by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding
>> the person with the least commits who is on their list.
>>
>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post.
>> This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project
>> values all contributions.
>>
>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies
>> that are contributing.
>>
>
> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
> the same core rather than extending the reach.
>
A group of associates have been flirting around with the idea of an
OpenDocument Specialist. A course that will involved the ins, and out
of OpenDocument, AOO, and ODFToolkits as well as other odf
manipualtion tools outside of the projects.
I think is on a similar aim to create developers very familiar with
the tools, the specification and the manipulation of such as standard.
Although we are not that focused on certification (usually just a
school diploma validating the credits). I think the similar task to
develop a syllabus and objectives is something that could be useful
for people.
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>> On 9 June 2013 17:24, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:36 AM, janI wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
>>>>>> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
>>>>>> considering such a thing?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The LO page is more about the people who are "certified" coders. This is
>>>> a functional equivalent to an svn auth list on the codebase - those AOO
>>>> committers who work on the codebase as opposed to QA, Infra, Marketing
>>>> and most importantly Translation.
>>>>
>>>> Apache is a flat organization. We don't make this distinction. Do we
>>>> want to start playing a marketing game of numbers, or do we want to put
>>>> our energy into writing the best code? [4]
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we
>>>>> do
>>>>> such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
>>>>> QA, documenters etc.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. If anything we should highlight our differences. We are an
>>>> organization where active contribution and engagement of all kinds is
>>>> important. It is community over code. [1]
>>>> .
>>>>> I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
>>>>> where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to
>>>>> have
>>>>> for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the
>>>>> interest
>>>>> of each.
>>>>
>>>> We have built similar information. Committers just need to maintain it.
>>>>
>>>> It is currently in the CWiki here [2]
>>>>
>>>> Originally it was here [3]
>>>>
>>>> We could add more here, or we could describe that the project is a
>>>> community of volunteers, etc. We could remind committers to update their
>>>> details on the wiki or request help with doing so.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://communityovercode.com/
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers
>>>> [3] http://openoffice.apache.org/people.html
>>>>
>>>> [4] I don't want to restart this discussion, but this is one reason why
>>>> I am against having a different svn auth list for the codebase unless
>>>> there is a demonstrated problem. This may be done in private. If I have
>>>> inexplicably changed my mind later then it will be because a real
>>>> security threat to the AOO codebase is manifest.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> rgds
>>>>> jan I.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>>>> Wales.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>
>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>
>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>
>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>> Wales.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
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>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9 June 2013 22:18, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> As I said, let's not worry about the certification thing. I doubt it
>>> is really worth the effort developing a formal certification program
>>> for so few. It really has to be thousands of possible candidates to
>>> make these things work and end users would be the only way of getting
>>> those numbers. It is only to answer the simple question "How many
>>> people are making or are likely to make significant coding
>>> contributions to the project?" (I don't think TDF has the first clue
>>> about certification in general, it's just that happens to be where
>>> they are identifying their main coders.) Perhaps Dave's svn authors
>>> list would do it. Maybe its just not an issue. Just occurred to me
>>> that if someone asked me how many people work on AOO code I wouldn't
>>> be able to give any sort of answer.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, I was responding to the topic of the thread that you started.
>> I'm not really interesting in rehashing the "whose is longer" debate
>> with LibreOffice.
>
> Seems I'm a bad communicator ;-) It's nothing to do with whose is
> longer. I was simply saying if someone asked me how many developers
> were making significant contributions at AOO I wouldn't be able to
> answer the question. Maybe everyone else can so its just my problem.
>
If I received such a question I'd say that OpenOffice is a 13-year old
open source project that has received contributions from hundreds of
developers and companies such as Sun, Oracle, Novell and IBM, that
contributors come and go, and that detailed data is available from our
public code repository history.
That's sufficient for any casual query. If they want more information
then it is best for them to come to the dev list and explain exactly
what they are looking for, since there are a dozen different ways you
can slice and dice the data, and no one simple answer is sufficient
for all purposes.
-Rob
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 9 June 2013 22:18, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> As I said, let's not worry about the certification thing. I doubt it
>> is really worth the effort developing a formal certification program
>> for so few. It really has to be thousands of possible candidates to
>> make these things work and end users would be the only way of getting
>> those numbers. It is only to answer the simple question "How many
>> people are making or are likely to make significant coding
>> contributions to the project?" (I don't think TDF has the first clue
>> about certification in general, it's just that happens to be where
>> they are identifying their main coders.) Perhaps Dave's svn authors
>> list would do it. Maybe its just not an issue. Just occurred to me
>> that if someone asked me how many people work on AOO code I wouldn't
>> be able to give any sort of answer.
>>
>
> Sorry, I was responding to the topic of the thread that you started.
> I'm not really interesting in rehashing the "whose is longer" debate
> with LibreOffice.
Seems I'm a bad communicator ;-) It's nothing to do with whose is
longer. I was simply saying if someone asked me how many developers
were making significant contributions at AOO I wouldn't be able to
answer the question. Maybe everyone else can so its just my problem.
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As I said, let's not worry about the certification thing. I doubt it
> is really worth the effort developing a formal certification program
> for so few. It really has to be thousands of possible candidates to
> make these things work and end users would be the only way of getting
> those numbers. It is only to answer the simple question "How many
> people are making or are likely to make significant coding
> contributions to the project?" (I don't think TDF has the first clue
> about certification in general, it's just that happens to be where
> they are identifying their main coders.) Perhaps Dave's svn authors
> list would do it. Maybe its just not an issue. Just occurred to me
> that if someone asked me how many people work on AOO code I wouldn't
> be able to give any sort of answer.
>
Sorry, I was responding to the topic of the thread that you started.
I'm not really interesting in rehashing the "whose is longer" debate
with LibreOffice.
-Rob
> On 9 June 2013 21:37, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>>>>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>>>>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
>>>>>
>>>>> From the page you cite:
>>>>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>>>>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
>>>> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
>>>>
>>>>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their list.
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
>>>> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
>>>> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
>>>> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
>>>> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
>>>> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
>>>> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
>>>> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
>>>> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
>>>> the same core rather than extending the reach.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>
>>> It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More
>>> that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably
>>> willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO
>>> people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its
>>> easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it.
>>>
>>
>> I assume all LibreOffice developers are "capable" of contributing to
>> OpenOffice, at least at the technical level. Vice versa as well, of
>> course.
>>
>> So if I were looking at a meaningful certification program and not
>> just a project-specific marketing campaign, I'd probable look for a
>> way to target the larger market, i.e., the combined developer base.
>> Otherwise it is like offering a certification for Windows 7 only, or
>> the apocryphal doctor who specializes in the left hand. I'd define
>> the competency as "Open source productivity" or "the open source
>> office", and consider both desktop software as well as complimentary
>> server software like content management, and the skills needed to get
>> this all working together.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>
>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>
>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>
>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>> Wales.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
As I said, let's not worry about the certification thing. I doubt it
is really worth the effort developing a formal certification program
for so few. It really has to be thousands of possible candidates to
make these things work and end users would be the only way of getting
those numbers. It is only to answer the simple question "How many
people are making or are likely to make significant coding
contributions to the project?" (I don't think TDF has the first clue
about certification in general, it's just that happens to be where
they are identifying their main coders.) Perhaps Dave's svn authors
list would do it. Maybe its just not an issue. Just occurred to me
that if someone asked me how many people work on AOO code I wouldn't
be able to give any sort of answer.
On 9 June 2013 21:37, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>>>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>>>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>>>>
>>>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
>>>>
>>>> From the page you cite:
>>>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
>>>>
>>>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>>>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>>>>
>>>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
>>> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
>>>
>>> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
>>>
>>>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their list.
>>>>
>>>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
>>>>
>>>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
>>> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
>>> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
>>> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
>>> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
>>> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
>>> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
>>> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
>>> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
>>> the same core rather than extending the reach.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>
>> It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More
>> that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably
>> willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO
>> people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its
>> easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it.
>>
>
> I assume all LibreOffice developers are "capable" of contributing to
> OpenOffice, at least at the technical level. Vice versa as well, of
> course.
>
> So if I were looking at a meaningful certification program and not
> just a project-specific marketing campaign, I'd probable look for a
> way to target the larger market, i.e., the combined developer base.
> Otherwise it is like offering a certification for Windows 7 only, or
> the apocryphal doctor who specializes in the left hand. I'd define
> the competency as "Open source productivity" or "the open source
> office", and consider both desktop software as well as complimentary
> server software like content management, and the skills needed to get
> this all working together.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>
>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
> >>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
> >>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
> >>>
> >>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand
> the TDF process:
> >>>
> >>> From the page you cite:
> >>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the
> Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering
> Steering Committee.
> >>>
> >>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of
> translation):
> >>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers
> is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily
> complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse
> any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually
> assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective
> requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us
> atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
> >>>
> >>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for
> like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
> >>>
> >>
> >> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
> >> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
> >>
> >> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
> >>
> >>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X
> commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported
> by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding
> the person with the least commits who is on their list.
> >>>
> >>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog
> post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the
> project values all contributions.
> >>>
> >>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not
> companies that are contributing.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
> >> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
> >> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
> >> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
> >> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
> >> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
> >> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
> >> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
> >> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
> >> the same core rather than extending the reach.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >
> > It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More
> > that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably
> > willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO
> > people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its
> > easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it.
> >
>
> I assume all LibreOffice developers are "capable" of contributing to
> OpenOffice, at least at the technical level. Vice versa as well, of
> course.
>
> So if I were looking at a meaningful certification program and not
> just a project-specific marketing campaign, I'd probable look for a
> way to target the larger market, i.e., the combined developer base.
> Otherwise it is like offering a certification for Windows 7 only, or
> the apocryphal doctor who specializes in the left hand. I'd define
> the competency as "Open source productivity" or "the open source
> office", and consider both desktop software as well as complimentary
> server software like content management, and the skills needed to get
> this all working together.
>
> -Rob
>
> I don't see how this could be other than a project specific marketing
campaign.
Basically because you either certified the process or certify the product
specific skills. I see more suitable to LibreOffice processes to be
transferable to Gnome since both communities share the same admins and
processes, than to Apache-way process.
>
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
> >
> > Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
> >
> > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
> >
> > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> > Wales.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>>
>>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>>>
>>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
>>>
>>> From the page you cite:
>>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
>>>
>>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>>>
>>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>>>
>>
>> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
>> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
>>
>> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
>>
>>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their list.
>>>
>>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
>>>
>>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
>>>
>>
>> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
>> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
>> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
>> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
>> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
>> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
>> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
>> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
>> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
>> the same core rather than extending the reach.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>
> It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More
> that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably
> willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO
> people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its
> easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it.
>
I assume all LibreOffice developers are "capable" of contributing to
OpenOffice, at least at the technical level. Vice versa as well, of
course.
So if I were looking at a meaningful certification program and not
just a project-specific marketing campaign, I'd probable look for a
way to target the larger market, i.e., the combined developer base.
Otherwise it is like offering a certification for Windows 7 only, or
the apocryphal doctor who specializes in the left hand. I'd define
the competency as "Open source productivity" or "the open source
office", and consider both desktop software as well as complimentary
server software like content management, and the skills needed to get
this all working together.
-Rob
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>>
>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>>
>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
>>
>> From the page you cite:
>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
>>
>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>>
>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>>
>
> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
>
> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
>
>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their list.
>>
>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
>>
>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
>>
>
> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
> the same core rather than extending the reach.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More
that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably
willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO
people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its
easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it.
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
>
>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
>
> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
>
> From the page you cite:
>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
>
> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
>
> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
>
For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of
the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand:
http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight
> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their list.
>
> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
>
> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
>
The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way
for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros,
extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good,
up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place
then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who
are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this
larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would
merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And
that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on
the same core rather than extending the reach.
Regards,
-Rob
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>> On 9 June 2013 17:24, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:36 AM, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>>>>>
>>>>> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
>>>>> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
>>>>> considering such a thing?
>>>>>
>>>
>>> The LO page is more about the people who are "certified" coders. This is a functional equivalent to an svn auth list on the codebase - those AOO committers who work on the codebase as opposed to QA, Infra, Marketing and most importantly Translation.
>>>
>>> Apache is a flat organization. We don't make this distinction. Do we want to start playing a marketing game of numbers, or do we want to put our energy into writing the best code? [4]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we do
>>>> such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
>>>> QA, documenters etc.
>>>
>>> Exactly. If anything we should highlight our differences. We are an organization where active contribution and engagement of all kinds is important. It is community over code. [1]
>>> .
>>>> I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
>>>> where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to have
>>>> for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the interest
>>>> of each.
>>>
>>> We have built similar information. Committers just need to maintain it.
>>>
>>> It is currently in the CWiki here [2]
>>>
>>> Originally it was here [3]
>>>
>>> We could add more here, or we could describe that the project is a community of volunteers, etc. We could remind committers to update their details on the wiki or request help with doing so.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> [1] http://communityovercode.com/
>>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers
>>> [3] http://openoffice.apache.org/people.html
>>>
>>> [4] I don't want to restart this discussion, but this is one reason why I am against having a different svn auth list for the codebase unless there is a demonstrated problem. This may be done in private. If I have inexplicably changed my mind later then it will be because a real security threat to the AOO codebase is manifest.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>>>
>>>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>>>
>>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>>
>>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>>> Wales.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>
>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote:
> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the TDF process:
From the page you cite:
> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the Engineering Steering Committee.
But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation):
> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please inform us atinfo@documentfoundation.org.
Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" comparison may be fodder for press FUD.
We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding the person with the least commits who is on their list.
If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. This could also point to our full committer count to show that the project values all contributions.
We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies that are contributing.
Regards,
Dave
>
> On 9 June 2013 17:24, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:36 AM, janI wrote:
>>
>>> On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>>>>
>>>> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
>>>> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
>>>> considering such a thing?
>>>>
>>
>> The LO page is more about the people who are "certified" coders. This is a functional equivalent to an svn auth list on the codebase - those AOO committers who work on the codebase as opposed to QA, Infra, Marketing and most importantly Translation.
>>
>> Apache is a flat organization. We don't make this distinction. Do we want to start playing a marketing game of numbers, or do we want to put our energy into writing the best code? [4]
>>
>>>
>>> I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we do
>>> such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
>>> QA, documenters etc.
>>
>> Exactly. If anything we should highlight our differences. We are an organization where active contribution and engagement of all kinds is important. It is community over code. [1]
>> .
>>> I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
>>> where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to have
>>> for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the interest
>>> of each.
>>
>> We have built similar information. Committers just need to maintain it.
>>
>> It is currently in the CWiki here [2]
>>
>> Originally it was here [3]
>>
>> We could add more here, or we could describe that the project is a community of volunteers, etc. We could remind committers to update their details on the wiki or request help with doing so.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> [1] http://communityovercode.com/
>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers
>> [3] http://openoffice.apache.org/people.html
>>
>> [4] I don't want to restart this discussion, but this is one reason why I am against having a different svn auth list for the codebase unless there is a demonstrated problem. This may be done in private. If I have inexplicably changed my mind later then it will be because a real security threat to the AOO codebase is manifest.
>>
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>>
>>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>>
>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>
>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>> Wales.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26
developers working on code it would be interesting to have a
comparison on a similar "like for like" basis.
On 9 June 2013 17:24, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:36 AM, janI wrote:
>
>> On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>>>
>>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>>>
>>> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
>>> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
>>> considering such a thing?
>>>
>
> The LO page is more about the people who are "certified" coders. This is a functional equivalent to an svn auth list on the codebase - those AOO committers who work on the codebase as opposed to QA, Infra, Marketing and most importantly Translation.
>
> Apache is a flat organization. We don't make this distinction. Do we want to start playing a marketing game of numbers, or do we want to put our energy into writing the best code? [4]
>
>>
>> I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we do
>> such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
>> QA, documenters etc.
>
> Exactly. If anything we should highlight our differences. We are an organization where active contribution and engagement of all kinds is important. It is community over code. [1]
> .
>> I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
>> where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to have
>> for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the interest
>> of each.
>
> We have built similar information. Committers just need to maintain it.
>
> It is currently in the CWiki here [2]
>
> Originally it was here [3]
>
> We could add more here, or we could describe that the project is a community of volunteers, etc. We could remind committers to update their details on the wiki or request help with doing so.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] http://communityovercode.com/
> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers
> [3] http://openoffice.apache.org/people.html
>
> [4] I don't want to restart this discussion, but this is one reason why I am against having a different svn auth list for the codebase unless there is a demonstrated problem. This may be done in private. If I have inexplicably changed my mind later then it will be because a real security threat to the AOO codebase is manifest.
>
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>>
>>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>>
>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>
>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>> Wales.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Jun 9, 2013, at 7:36 AM, janI wrote:
> On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>>
>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>>
>> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
>> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
>> considering such a thing?
>>
The LO page is more about the people who are "certified" coders. This is a functional equivalent to an svn auth list on the codebase - those AOO committers who work on the codebase as opposed to QA, Infra, Marketing and most importantly Translation.
Apache is a flat organization. We don't make this distinction. Do we want to start playing a marketing game of numbers, or do we want to put our energy into writing the best code? [4]
>
> I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we do
> such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
> QA, documenters etc.
Exactly. If anything we should highlight our differences. We are an organization where active contribution and engagement of all kinds is important. It is community over code. [1]
.
> I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
> where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to have
> for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the interest
> of each.
We have built similar information. Committers just need to maintain it.
It is currently in the CWiki here [2]
Originally it was here [3]
We could add more here, or we could describe that the project is a community of volunteers, etc. We could remind committers to update their details on the wiki or request help with doing so.
Regards,
Dave
[1] http://communityovercode.com/
[2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Directory+of+Volunteers
[3] http://openoffice.apache.org/people.html
[4] I don't want to restart this discussion, but this is one reason why I am against having a different svn auth list for the codebase unless there is a demonstrated problem. This may be done in private. If I have inexplicably changed my mind later then it will be because a real security threat to the AOO codebase is manifest.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>>
>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 9 June 2013 16:04, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>
> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
> considering such a thing?
>
I think the committer status, covers much of the "certification", if we do
such a thing for developers, we should also do it for
QA, documenters etc.
I do like the lo page, as such, because it clearly shows who (and from
where) are paid, and who are volunteers. Such a list would be nice to have
for newcommers, especially if it included a line or two about the interest
of each.
rgds
jan I.
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
Am Sonntag, 9. Juni 2013 um 16:34 schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
> >
> > http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
> >
> > While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
> > something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
> > considering such a thing?
> >
>
>
> If someone is actively contributing to the project, and their
> contributions have merit, then they would ordinarily be voted in as a
> committer. An "Apache Committer" is a recognized title in the
> industry. Try searching LinkedIn for the term, for example.
>
> I don't think we want to confuse things with other titles, or dilute
> the value of "Apache Committer". We should focus on shipping more
> code, not more titles ;-)
>
>
+1
We should indeed focus on the code and the project. I don't know how they assign the title but when I review the list there is no surprise.
Juergen
>
> -Rob
>
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
> >
> > Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
> >
> > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
> >
> > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> > Wales.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
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Re: Certified DEVs
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed that LibreO has 26 Certified Developers.
>
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>
> While we have the concept of a committer here at AOO is there
> something specific for active code developers? Would it be worth
> considering such a thing?
>
If someone is actively contributing to the project, and their
contributions have merit, then they would ordinarily be voted in as a
committer. An "Apache Committer" is a recognized title in the
industry. Try searching LinkedIn for the term, for example.
I don't think we want to confuse things with other titles, or dilute
the value of "Apache Committer". We should focus on shipping more
code, not more titles ;-)
-Rob
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications
>
> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
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