Re: [xml-dev] Proposal (was Re: [Sax-devel] Re: SAX survey: expected localname for non-namespace qualified elements)

["Simon St.Laurent" <si...@simonstl.com>]

At 11:56 PM 6/2/2002 -0700, Ronald Bourret wrote:
> > How about:
> > 1) The qName parameter is renamed "rawName", and documentation explains
> > that this is both the Qualified Name in namespace-aware processing and the
> > Name in namespace-unaware processing.
>
>-1. rawName doesn't mean anything. qName does.

Sure.  Just "name" would be fine by me.  Less meaning may be good in this case.

> > 2) A filter which copies rawName to localName in the event that localName
> > is empty or null is included in the org.xml.sax.helpers package.  This way,
> > developers can adapt filters and applications which work using
> > namespace-aware expectations to namespace-unaware processing without having
> > to retrofit their code.
>
>But why would we want to do this? So far, nobody has reported a parser
>that doesn't report the element type name in localName when namespace
>processing is turned off,

Yuval Oren reported this on sax-devel:
>My own tests show AElfred2, Crimson, Piccolo, and Xerces to return empty
>strings for localName when namespace processing is disabled. Oracle and
>MinML2 dodge the issue by not supporting turning off namespace processing.

That's many more than nobody.

>  and everybody (admittedly a small sample) is
>writing code that relies on the value in localName. The change you
>suggest would break existing applications.

I agree - it would would break my applications.

>I vote that we change the docs to align with current practice and remove
>the ambiguity. This would be backwards incompatible in the theoretical
>world but backwards compatible in the real world.

That's my dream, but I don't feel it likely.
Simon St.Laurent
"Every day in every way I'm getting better and better." - Emile Coue


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Re: [xml-dev] Proposal (was Re: [Sax-devel] Re: SAX survey: expected localname for non-namespace qualified elements)

[Karl Waclawek <ka...@waclawek.net>]

> At 11:56 PM 6/2/2002 -0700, Ronald Bourret wrote:
> > > How about:
> > > 1) The qName parameter is renamed "rawName", and documentation explains
> > > that this is both the Qualified Name in namespace-aware processing and the
> > > Name in namespace-unaware processing.
> >
> >-1. rawName doesn't mean anything. qName does.
> 
> Sure.  Just "name" would be fine by me.  Less meaning may be good in this case.

What if we transfer the Expat approach in a compatible way:

We define one parameter as the "Name". It contains whatever the element's
name is, regardless of NS processing on/off, regardless of the element name
belonging to a namespace or not (this means: if Prefix has a meaning,
it is not part of the name!). 

Whether the element name belongs to a namespace is determined by the URI
parameter being non-empty.

If there is a prefix, we have it in the remaining parameter.
Now, if we just have the prefix there, this would be like Expat,
and not conmpatible - so we should use prefix+':'+name.

Let's map localName to Name, and qName to the prefix parameter.
This would then mean:

- localName is always present, and reports whatever the name is,
  depending on the context (e.g. if NS processing is on, a prefix
  would not be part of the name, if the element is not in a namespace,
  localName contains the full name, ...)
- URI means what it used to mean. Empty URI means: no namespace.
- qName is present as prefix+':'+name when there is a prefix/namespace,
  otherwise it is optional. This could be changed to making it required,
  if that is better for compatibility with existing applications.

Karl


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Re: [xml-dev] Proposal (was Re: [Sax-devel] Re: SAX survey:expected localname for non-namespace qualified elements)

[Ronald Bourret <rp...@rpbourret.com>]

"Simon St.Laurent" wrote:
> >But why would we want to do this? So far, nobody has reported a parser
> >that doesn't report the element type name in localName when namespace
> >processing is turned off,
> 
> Yuval Oren reported this on sax-devel:
> >My own tests show AElfred2, Crimson, Piccolo, and Xerces to return empty
> >strings for localName when namespace processing is disabled. Oracle and
> >MinML2 dodge the issue by not supporting turning off namespace processing.
> 
> That's many more than nobody.

Ah. Either I missed that or it wasn't on xml-dev. I stand corrected.

-- Ron

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