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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com> on 2016/07/26 13:00:28 UTC
Distributing ASF Material
Hi All
I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group (WiBD)
https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I hear that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on our behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the ASF may not be officially represented at that conference \u2013 would another organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
Thanks
Sharan
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Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 15/08/2016 17:22, Ted Dunning wrote:
<snip/>
> In the past, it has
> even gotten to the point where a HW founder threatened me personally to get
> me not to come to a user group meeting (I went anyway).
<snip/>
Just a reminder to everyone subscribed to this list that the ASF has a
code of conduct [1]. Details of how to report any concerns you may have
are included on that page.
Mark
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct
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Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 8/17/16, 1:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi
>
>It sounds like there are mixed feelings about allowing this so I will
>respond back to them saying that we'd prefer that they don't distribute
>any ASF material.
From the peanut gallery: HW seems to be a big sponsor of the ASF. Either
some individual at HW is acting poorly enough that the ASF needs to
consider cutting ties, or that was an isolated incident and we should
continue to try to improve our relationship with HW, including giving them
another opportunity to help us out and using that opportunity to continue
to educate them on proper positioning of the ASF/HW relationship.
I'd rather have folks make mistakes trying to help and attempt to educate
them (before and after) than for us to miss opportunities to get the word
out, unless the people involved are people we shouldn't be involved with
at all.
My 2 cents,
-Alex
Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Alan Gates <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to add some context to Ted’s complaint. If he is talking
> about the incident that I think he is, it happened years before Hortonworks
> was founded. (I wasn’t there, but I have heard the story from those who
> were.) He was at a Hadoop User Group promoting MapR’s proprietary file
> system as better than Hadoop’s HDFS, which was not appreciated.
It was not that event.
It was about the time of the founding of HW and I was approached and told
that there might be "consequences" if I attended an HBase meetup that was
upcoming.
I have been involved in open source now for about 40 years. That was the
first time that I had ever been threatened.
Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Alan Gates <al...@gmail.com>.
I would like to add some context to Ted’s complaint. If he is talking about the incident that I think he is, it happened years before Hortonworks was founded. (I wasn’t there, but I have heard the story from those who were.) He was at a Hadoop User Group promoting MapR’s proprietary file system as better than Hadoop’s HDFS, which was not appreciated. So to bring this out now as “Hortonworks does not respect Apache ways” is not reasonable.
With my Apache hat on, regarding Sharan’s original question of handing out material at Grace Hopper, I agree that keeping a clear distinction between Hortonworks and Apache is appropriate. It seems to me that her original proposal of having Apache members and committers who happen to also be Hortonworkers hand out the material accomplishes that.
Alan.
> On Aug 17, 2016, at 01:00, Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> It sounds like there are mixed feelings about allowing this so I will respond back to them saying that we'd prefer that they don't distribute any ASF material.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> On 2016-08-15 18:22 (+0200), Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I find the proposed situation very distasteful. Hortonworks marketing and
>> sales efforts have traditionally been oriented around on claiming effective
>> control over Apache projects (tag lines like "We do Hadoop" can easily be
>> canted to "WE do Hadoop" and historically it has been). In the past, it has
>> even gotten to the point where a HW founder threatened me personally to get
>> me not to come to a user group meeting (I went anyway).
>>
>> So, given that HW and Apache members associated with HW have a long history
>> of claiming both association and endorsement, I don't think it is at all
>> appropriate to be doing this out of the Hortonworks booth.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Great you are connecting with Women in Big Data!
>>>
>>> I think as long as they are not claiming association or endorsement it
>>> should be fine to redistribute ASF marketing material (which license
>>> do we have on those?), even if an ASF committer is not always there.
>>>
>>> Separation is the key, e.g. keep the ASF posters/flyers separate from
>>> WiBD and Hortonworks posters/flyers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Apache(tm) and the Apache feather logo are still protected trademark,
>>> so they can't be used as part of the stand's banners without
>>> permission.
>>>
>>> On 15 August 2016 at 09:58, Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Rich
>>>>
>>>> I've just found out that the booth at Grace Hopper will actually be a
>>> Hortonworks one. They are a sponsor of Women in Big Data. I know the ASF
>>> prefer not to be aligned with any one company so am checking if this
>>> changes the situation.
>>>>
>>>> One idea they have suggested, is that they know that at least one ASF
>>> Committer will be present at the conference (possibly two) so they could
>>> make sure that the ASF material is only offered when a Committer is also
>>> present at their booth. Could this be an acceptable solution?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Sharan
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-07-29 18:59 (+0200), Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>>>>> It is preferable to have someone able to answer questions, but I don't
>>>>> think we'd refuse.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 26, 2016 9:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group
>>>>>> (WiBD)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper
>>>>>> Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I
>>> hear
>>>>>> that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on
>>> our
>>>>>> behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the
>>> ASF
>>>>>> may not be officially represented at that conference â would another
>>>>>> organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stian Soiland-Reyes
>>> Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons
>>> http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com>.
Hi
It sounds like there are mixed feelings about allowing this so I will respond back to them saying that we'd prefer that they don't distribute any ASF material.
Thanks
Sharan
On 2016-08-15 18:22 (+0200), Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find the proposed situation very distasteful. Hortonworks marketing and
> sales efforts have traditionally been oriented around on claiming effective
> control over Apache projects (tag lines like "We do Hadoop" can easily be
> canted to "WE do Hadoop" and historically it has been). In the past, it has
> even gotten to the point where a HW founder threatened me personally to get
> me not to come to a user group meeting (I went anyway).
>
> So, given that HW and Apache members associated with HW have a long history
> of claiming both association and endorsement, I don't think it is at all
> appropriate to be doing this out of the Hortonworks booth.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Great you are connecting with Women in Big Data!
> >
> > I think as long as they are not claiming association or endorsement it
> > should be fine to redistribute ASF marketing material (which license
> > do we have on those?), even if an ASF committer is not always there.
> >
> > Separation is the key, e.g. keep the ASF posters/flyers separate from
> > WiBD and Hortonworks posters/flyers.
> >
> >
> > Apache(tm) and the Apache feather logo are still protected trademark,
> > so they can't be used as part of the stand's banners without
> > permission.
> >
> > On 15 August 2016 at 09:58, Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Rich
> > >
> > > I've just found out that the booth at Grace Hopper will actually be a
> > Hortonworks one. They are a sponsor of Women in Big Data. I know the ASF
> > prefer not to be aligned with any one company so am checking if this
> > changes the situation.
> > >
> > > One idea they have suggested, is that they know that at least one ASF
> > Committer will be present at the conference (possibly two) so they could
> > make sure that the ASF material is only offered when a Committer is also
> > present at their booth. Could this be an acceptable solution?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Sharan
> > >
> > > On 2016-07-29 18:59 (+0200), Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> > >> It is preferable to have someone able to answer questions, but I don't
> > >> think we'd refuse.
> > >>
> > >> On Jul 26, 2016 9:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi All
> > >> >
> > >> > I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group
> > >> > (WiBD)
> > >> >
> > >> > https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
> > >> >
> > >> > and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper
> > >> > Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I
> > hear
> > >> > that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
> > >> >
> > >> > They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on
> > our
> > >> > behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the
> > ASF
> > >> > may not be officially represented at that conference \u2013 would another
> > >> > organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks
> > >> > Sharan
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stian Soiland-Reyes
> > Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons
> > http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
I find the proposed situation very distasteful. Hortonworks marketing and
sales efforts have traditionally been oriented around on claiming effective
control over Apache projects (tag lines like "We do Hadoop" can easily be
canted to "WE do Hadoop" and historically it has been). In the past, it has
even gotten to the point where a HW founder threatened me personally to get
me not to come to a user group meeting (I went anyway).
So, given that HW and Apache members associated with HW have a long history
of claiming both association and endorsement, I don't think it is at all
appropriate to be doing this out of the Hortonworks booth.
On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Great you are connecting with Women in Big Data!
>
> I think as long as they are not claiming association or endorsement it
> should be fine to redistribute ASF marketing material (which license
> do we have on those?), even if an ASF committer is not always there.
>
> Separation is the key, e.g. keep the ASF posters/flyers separate from
> WiBD and Hortonworks posters/flyers.
>
>
> Apache(tm) and the Apache feather logo are still protected trademark,
> so they can't be used as part of the stand's banners without
> permission.
>
> On 15 August 2016 at 09:58, Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Rich
> >
> > I've just found out that the booth at Grace Hopper will actually be a
> Hortonworks one. They are a sponsor of Women in Big Data. I know the ASF
> prefer not to be aligned with any one company so am checking if this
> changes the situation.
> >
> > One idea they have suggested, is that they know that at least one ASF
> Committer will be present at the conference (possibly two) so they could
> make sure that the ASF material is only offered when a Committer is also
> present at their booth. Could this be an acceptable solution?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> > On 2016-07-29 18:59 (+0200), Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> >> It is preferable to have someone able to answer questions, but I don't
> >> think we'd refuse.
> >>
> >> On Jul 26, 2016 9:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi All
> >> >
> >> > I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group
> >> > (WiBD)
> >> >
> >> > https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
> >> >
> >> > and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper
> >> > Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I
> hear
> >> > that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
> >> >
> >> > They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on
> our
> >> > behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the
> ASF
> >> > may not be officially represented at that conference – would another
> >> > organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Sharan
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Stian Soiland-Reyes
> Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons
> http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
Great you are connecting with Women in Big Data!
I think as long as they are not claiming association or endorsement it
should be fine to redistribute ASF marketing material (which license
do we have on those?), even if an ASF committer is not always there.
Separation is the key, e.g. keep the ASF posters/flyers separate from
WiBD and Hortonworks posters/flyers.
Apache(tm) and the Apache feather logo are still protected trademark,
so they can't be used as part of the stand's banners without
permission.
On 15 August 2016 at 09:58, Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rich
>
> I've just found out that the booth at Grace Hopper will actually be a Hortonworks one. They are a sponsor of Women in Big Data. I know the ASF prefer not to be aligned with any one company so am checking if this changes the situation.
>
> One idea they have suggested, is that they know that at least one ASF Committer will be present at the conference (possibly two) so they could make sure that the ASF material is only offered when a Committer is also present at their booth. Could this be an acceptable solution?
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> On 2016-07-29 18:59 (+0200), Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>> It is preferable to have someone able to answer questions, but I don't
>> think we'd refuse.
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2016 9:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All
>> >
>> > I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group
>> > (WiBD)
>> >
>> > https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
>> >
>> > and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper
>> > Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I hear
>> > that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
>> >
>> > They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on our
>> > behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the ASF
>> > may not be officially represented at that conference – would another
>> > organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Sharan
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
--
Stian Soiland-Reyes
Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons
http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
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Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com>.
Hi Rich
I've just found out that the booth at Grace Hopper will actually be a Hortonworks one. They are a sponsor of Women in Big Data. I know the ASF prefer not to be aligned with any one company so am checking if this changes the situation.
One idea they have suggested, is that they know that at least one ASF Committer will be present at the conference (possibly two) so they could make sure that the ASF material is only offered when a Committer is also present at their booth. Could this be an acceptable solution?
Thanks
Sharan
On 2016-07-29 18:59 (+0200), Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> It is preferable to have someone able to answer questions, but I don't
> think we'd refuse.
>
> On Jul 26, 2016 9:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group
> > (WiBD)
> >
> > https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
> >
> > and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper
> > Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I hear
> > that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
> >
> > They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on our
> > behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the ASF
> > may not be officially represented at that conference \u2013 would another
> > organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: Distributing ASF Material
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
It is preferable to have someone able to answer questions, but I don't
think we'd refuse.
On Jul 26, 2016 9:00 AM, "Sharan Foga" <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I was chatting yesterday to a contact from the Women in Big Data group
> (WiBD)
>
> https://www.womeninbigdata.org/
>
> and they mentioned that they would be represented at the Grace Hopper
> Celebration of Women in Computing event in Houston later this year. I hear
> that conference tickets are pretty much sold out.
>
> They have a stand are willing to distribute ASF marketing material on our
> behalf. I didn't know if that was OK or not so am asking here. As the ASF
> may not be officially represented at that conference – would another
> organisation distributing ASF material be an issue?
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>