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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> on 2013/10/07 06:19:52 UTC
Too many late reports
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Dave Fisher DeviceMap
> > Dave Fisher Spark
>
> Although there are no reports yet.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matt Franklin <m....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Missing the ODF Toolkit report for this month.
Lots of late or missing reports this month!
As of the due date last Wednesday, 8 podlings out of 16 had not reported:
* Chukwa
* DeviceMap
* Helix
* ODF Toolkit
* Ripple
* Samza
* Spark
* Stratos
Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark filed a
report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
yet."
It's inconvenient to receive podling reports late. Mentors have less time to
sign off and possibly comment; shepherds don't get to take the podling's own
self-examination into account when conducting their reviews.
Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month instead.
That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
In the past, the Incubator PMC has not done a good job of following up when
reports are missed entirely, arguably contributing to our losing track of
low-activity podlings and delaying intervention. I've started doing it a bit,
though I've missed at least one (NPanday did not file in August but there was
no followup AFAIK). It might be nice to build a remedy into the reporting run
book -- something like this:
After filing the report, perform the following steps for each podling
which did not report:
* Edit podlings.xml to set the "monthly" reporting attribute for the
podling.
* Send a message to the podling's dev list requesting that they
file an out-of-cycle report next month as a makeup.
One possible contributing factor is that podlings are still not getting a
full week's notice to file their reports. Sure, reporting isn't a huge task,
but when you're new to creating reports it takes much longer.
The argument that podlings ought to just know these dates and file on time
rather than relying on reminders[1] simply isn't getting the job done. I
think we'd get better results if we expect punctuality from podlings, set a
good example by demonstrating punctuality ourselves, and express lenience by
requesting that a podling report next month rather than by accepting a
report too
late to give it the attention it deserves.
The problem is that at present the reminders have to be sent out manually[2],
and despite the best of intentions, humans are not ideal replacements for cron
jobs. It's time to ask again: what would it take to get those reminders
firing with unerring reliability three weeks before the Board meeting? Is it
realistic to attempt a patch eliminating the need for an svn password?
Marvin Humphrey
[1] http://s.apache.org/PIj
[2] http://s.apache.org/dwM
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Christian Grobmeier
<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ups! Due to tons of $realtime work recently I missed to push the Ripple
> report. I am going after that asap.
At this point, why not just wait until next month? From scanning Ripple's dev
list archives, it doesn't look like there's a report already prepared and
waiting.
An occasional one-month reporting lapse isn't a big deal, either for a TLP or
a podling.
> Are you accepting it if it comes soonish?
I'm certainly not going to unilaterally delete any podling report that shows
up now. The Incubator's monthly report is a community product which involves
several parties:
* Podling contributors
* Mentors
* Shepherds
* IPMC Chair
* ASF Board of Directors (consuming the report and providing feedback)
To make enduring improvements to our reporting, we need all stakeholders to
feel invested in the process. It would be counter-productive for the Chair to
suddenly start enforcing a hard deadline like that. Better to build consensus
that change is needed and seek out incremental improvements.
Perhaps next month, the Chair can start adding "report not filed, expected
next month" shepherd comments the day after the podling report deadline
passes; if the podling subsequently reports, the shepherd comment can be
updated to "filed late". That's less harsh than deleting a report that
someone took the time to prepare, but at the same time it also provides an
incentive to file on time and avoid the footnote.
> Btw, in almost all podling esp the smaller communities I have to remind the
> reports, even when there was Marvin. It feels as people would ignore
> marvin, because they know how to do it when I remind them. Thats just a
> non-representative observation.
Honestly, at the level of the individual podling, I don't have much sympathy.
Podlings ought to know about reporting requirements well in advance and plan
accordingly.
>From a management standpoint, though, I believe that we will achieve
statistically improved results by getting our own house in order and expecting
excellence from ourselves first.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
Ups! Due to tons of $realtime work recently I missed to push the Ripple
report.
I am going after that asap. Are you accepting it if it comes soonish?
Btw, in almost all podling esp the smaller communities I have to remind
the reports, even when there was Marvin. It feels as people would
ignore marvin, because they know how to do it when I remind them. Thats
just a non-representative observation.
On 7 Oct 2013, at 6:19, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> Dave Fisher DeviceMap
>>> Dave Fisher Spark
>>
>> Although there are no reports yet.
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matt Franklin
> <m....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Missing the ODF Toolkit report for this month.
>
> Lots of late or missing reports this month!
>
> As of the due date last Wednesday, 8 podlings out of 16 had not
> reported:
>
> * Chukwa
> * DeviceMap
> * Helix
> * ODF Toolkit
> * Ripple
> * Samza
> * Spark
> * Stratos
>
> Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark
> filed a
> report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding
> commentary,
> which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not
> reported
> yet."
>
> It's inconvenient to receive podling reports late. Mentors have less
> time to
> sign off and possibly comment; shepherds don't get to take the
> podling's own
> self-examination into account when conducting their reviews.
>
> Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month
> instead.
> That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too
> late.
>
> In the past, the Incubator PMC has not done a good job of following up
> when
> reports are missed entirely, arguably contributing to our losing track
> of
> low-activity podlings and delaying intervention. I've started doing
> it a bit,
> though I've missed at least one (NPanday did not file in August but
> there was
> no followup AFAIK). It might be nice to build a remedy into the
> reporting run
> book -- something like this:
>
> After filing the report, perform the following steps for each podling
> which did not report:
>
> * Edit podlings.xml to set the "monthly" reporting attribute for
> the
> podling.
> * Send a message to the podling's dev list requesting that they
> file an out-of-cycle report next month as a makeup.
>
> One possible contributing factor is that podlings are still not
> getting a
> full week's notice to file their reports. Sure, reporting isn't a
> huge task,
> but when you're new to creating reports it takes much longer.
>
> The argument that podlings ought to just know these dates and file on
> time
> rather than relying on reminders[1] simply isn't getting the job done.
> I
> think we'd get better results if we expect punctuality from podlings,
> set a
> good example by demonstrating punctuality ourselves, and express
> lenience by
> requesting that a podling report next month rather than by accepting a
> report too
> late to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> The problem is that at present the reminders have to be sent out
> manually[2],
> and despite the best of intentions, humans are not ideal replacements
> for cron
> jobs. It's time to ask again: what would it take to get those
> reminders
> firing with unerring reliability three weeks before the Board meeting?
> Is it
> realistic to attempt a patch eliminating the need for an svn password?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/PIj
> [2] http://s.apache.org/dwM
>
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 09:28:18PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> > Lots of late or missing reports this month!
>
> I've noticed the same thing as well.
>
> > Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark filed a
> > report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
> > which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
> > yet."
>
> Missing reports have been quite inconvenient for me doing my shepherding
> work as well. If we could address it -- it'll definitely lighten up
> shepherd's load
> somewhat.
>
> > Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month instead.
> > That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
>
> If my shepherding perspective is any indication this has been quite chronic
> (although this month feels particularly bad). I think you're absolutely right
> in suggesting that we should try and address this somehow.
Stratos appears to have now reported. FWIW, I'm pushing the PPMC folks
for that project to take responsibility for ensuring that they report
next time around.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Sergio Fernández <se...@salzburgresearch.at>.
Hi Marvin, the real one xD
On 08/10/13 04:50, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> Thanks for joining in the discussion! Marmotta has been a pleasure to work
> with.
Thanks :-)
Personally I found quite interesting the overall incubating process.
With some small bugs, as everything, but it really conduct project to
become an actual community.
> I plan to start generating the wiki report template earlier in the cycle --
> tentatively, immediately after filing the last report. This month's wiki page
> included both shepherd assignments and the schedule of due dates; those could
> also be filled out at the same time, one month in advance.
I'd not say so. Human beings we are lazy inherently. Therefore, we need
somehow tight deadlines, otherwise we tend to forget. So I wouldn't send
the report reminder so early, but few days before we are currently
doing, one week, could be enough.
Cheers,
--
Sergio Fernández
Salzburg Research
+43 662 2288 318
Jakob-Haringer Strasse 5/II
A-5020 Salzburg (Austria)
http://www.salzburgresearch.at
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
Hello, Sergio,
Thanks for joining in the discussion! Marmotta has been a pleasure to work
with.
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Sergio Fernández
<se...@salzburgresearch.at> wrote:
> In the case of Marmotta, some of us we are frequently reading
> general@incubator for learning about other podlings (releases, votes and so
> on). So what helped in our case was to forward the timeline as soon it was
> discussed here, so he had some more days for the report preparation.
>
> For October's report, the timeline was:
>
> Sep 26: timeline fixed by ipmc
> Sep 29: sent to all podling
> Oct 02: report's deadline
> Oct 06: shepherd reviews
> (...)
>
> Write the report itself does not take so long. But sometimes podlings may
> require some discussion about the wording of some details, which at the end
> means time. Therefore, what about send the reminder as soon as the timeline
> is fixed?
The due dates for podling reports are pretty much fixed as soon as a podling
enters incubation.
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html#Incubator+ASF+Board+Reports
...
The Incubator reports to the ASF Board monthly and includes status for a
subset of the incubating projects. Currently new Podlings report to the
Incubator monthly for the first three months, then quarterly thereafter.
The reporting schedule is generated from podlings.xml.
The auto-generated reporting schedule is available here:
http://incubator.apache.org/report-groups.txt
So the month is known; what's left is to calculate the day. With occasional
exceptions, the Board meets on the third Wednesday of every month. The
Incubator report gets filed one week before that meeting -- on the second
Wednesday of the month. Podling reports are due one week before that:
typically, the first Wednesday of the month.
I plan to start generating the wiki report template earlier in the cycle --
tentatively, immediately after filing the last report. This month's wiki page
included both shepherd assignments and the schedule of due dates; those could
also be filled out at the same time, one month in advance.
That leaves the email reminders sent by the other "Marvin". We could
theoretically have those sent out at any time: two weeks prior, one month
prior, etc. One week seems adequate to me, though -- so long as it's actually
one full week rather than some unpredictable fraction of a week as has been
the case.
How does this sound?
* As soon as this month's report is filed, generate the wiki page for next
month, including due dates and shepherd assignments. Once the wiki page
is up, send an email to general@incubator with the list of podlings
expected to report, due dates, shepherd assignments, and a link to the
wiki page.
* Persuade the other "Marvin" to send out reminders to individual podling
dev lists exactly one week before their reports are due.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Sergio Fernández <se...@salzburgresearch.at>.
Hi,
On 07/10/13 06:28, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> If my shepherding perspective is any indication this has been quite chronic
> (although this month feels particularly bad). I think you're absolutely right
> in suggesting that we should try and address this somehow
In the case of Marmotta, some of us we are frequently reading
general@incubator for learning about other podlings (releases, votes and
so on). So what helped in our case was to forward the timeline as soon
it was discussed here, so he had some more days for the report preparation.
For October's report, the timeline was:
Sep 26: timeline fixed by ipmc
Sep 29: sent to all podling
Oct 02: report's deadline
Oct 06: shepherd reviews
(...)
Write the report itself does not take so long. But sometimes podlings
may require some discussion about the wording of some details, which at
the end means time. Therefore, what about send the reminder as soon as
the timeline is fixed?
That are my two cents.
Cheers,
P.S.: Apologize for the possible inconveniences caused by the
circumstance the the last Marmotta release was accepted one day after
the deadline. E preferred to update the report than to leave such
information out of the current report, even if we submitted a bit over
the deadline.
--
Sergio Fernández
Salzburg Research
+43 662 2288 318
Jakob-Haringer Strasse 5/II
A-5020 Salzburg (Austria)
http://www.salzburgresearch.at
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 9:28 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> If my shepherding perspective is any indication this has been quite chronic
> (although this month feels particularly bad). I think you're absolutely
> right
> in suggesting that we should try and address this somehow.
>
One thing that has helped Drill respond to late notifications is to start
the next report the day after the previous one is done.
We have our community builders note things of interest as they happen in a
kind of a log entry fashion. This is really easy to fashion into a report
when the time comes which in turn means that it is (much) easier to find
the manpower on short notice.
Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
Hi!
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> Lots of late or missing reports this month!
I've noticed the same thing as well.
> Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark filed a
> report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
> which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
> yet."
Missing reports have been quite inconvenient for me doing my shepherding
work as well. If we could address it -- it'll definitely lighten up
shepherd's load
somewhat.
> Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month instead.
> That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
If my shepherding perspective is any indication this has been quite chronic
(although this month feels particularly bad). I think you're absolutely right
in suggesting that we should try and address this somehow.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Fwd: Too many late reports
Posted by Chip Childers <ch...@sungard.com>.
On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 02:06:38PM +0530, Lakmal Warusawithana wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> Azeez already submitted.
Ignore my last email then... ;-)
Thanks for jumping on this Lakmal.
Re: Fwd: Too many late reports
Posted by Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
Azeez already submitted.
Thanks
sent from phone
On Oct 7, 2013 12:31 PM, "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sa...@wso2.com> wrote:
> Someone needs to send this .. not good to get on the bad list right away
> :-).
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> Date: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:49 AM
> Subject: Too many late reports
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > > Dave Fisher DeviceMap
> > > Dave Fisher Spark
> >
> > Although there are no reports yet.
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matt Franklin <m....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Missing the ODF Toolkit report for this month.
>
> Lots of late or missing reports this month!
>
> As of the due date last Wednesday, 8 podlings out of 16 had not reported:
>
> * Chukwa
> * DeviceMap
> * Helix
> * ODF Toolkit
> * Ripple
> * Samza
> * Spark
> * Stratos
>
> Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark
> filed a
> report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
> which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
> yet."
>
> It's inconvenient to receive podling reports late. Mentors have less time
> to
> sign off and possibly comment; shepherds don't get to take the podling's
> own
> self-examination into account when conducting their reviews.
>
> Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month
> instead.
> That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
>
> In the past, the Incubator PMC has not done a good job of following up when
> reports are missed entirely, arguably contributing to our losing track of
> low-activity podlings and delaying intervention. I've started doing it a
> bit,
> though I've missed at least one (NPanday did not file in August but there
> was
> no followup AFAIK). It might be nice to build a remedy into the reporting
> run
> book -- something like this:
>
> After filing the report, perform the following steps for each podling
> which did not report:
>
> * Edit podlings.xml to set the "monthly" reporting attribute for the
> podling.
> * Send a message to the podling's dev list requesting that they
> file an out-of-cycle report next month as a makeup.
>
> One possible contributing factor is that podlings are still not getting a
> full week's notice to file their reports. Sure, reporting isn't a huge
> task,
> but when you're new to creating reports it takes much longer.
>
> The argument that podlings ought to just know these dates and file on time
> rather than relying on reminders[1] simply isn't getting the job done. I
> think we'd get better results if we expect punctuality from podlings, set a
> good example by demonstrating punctuality ourselves, and express lenience
> by
> requesting that a podling report next month rather than by accepting a
> report too
> late to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> The problem is that at present the reminders have to be sent out
> manually[2],
> and despite the best of intentions, humans are not ideal replacements for
> cron
> jobs. It's time to ask again: what would it take to get those reminders
> firing with unerring reliability three weeks before the Board meeting? Is
> it
> realistic to attempt a patch eliminating the need for an svn password?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/PIj
> [2] http://s.apache.org/dwM
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/
> email: sanjiva@wso2.com; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1
> 650 265 8311
> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
>
Fwd: Too many late reports
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@wso2.com>.
Someone needs to send this .. not good to get on the bad list right away
:-).
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 9:49 AM
Subject: Too many late reports
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Dave Fisher DeviceMap
> > Dave Fisher Spark
>
> Although there are no reports yet.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matt Franklin <m....@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Missing the ODF Toolkit report for this month.
Lots of late or missing reports this month!
As of the due date last Wednesday, 8 podlings out of 16 had not reported:
* Chukwa
* DeviceMap
* Helix
* ODF Toolkit
* Ripple
* Samza
* Spark
* Stratos
Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark filed
a
report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
yet."
It's inconvenient to receive podling reports late. Mentors have less time
to
sign off and possibly comment; shepherds don't get to take the podling's own
self-examination into account when conducting their reviews.
Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month
instead.
That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
In the past, the Incubator PMC has not done a good job of following up when
reports are missed entirely, arguably contributing to our losing track of
low-activity podlings and delaying intervention. I've started doing it a
bit,
though I've missed at least one (NPanday did not file in August but there
was
no followup AFAIK). It might be nice to build a remedy into the reporting
run
book -- something like this:
After filing the report, perform the following steps for each podling
which did not report:
* Edit podlings.xml to set the "monthly" reporting attribute for the
podling.
* Send a message to the podling's dev list requesting that they
file an out-of-cycle report next month as a makeup.
One possible contributing factor is that podlings are still not getting a
full week's notice to file their reports. Sure, reporting isn't a huge
task,
but when you're new to creating reports it takes much longer.
The argument that podlings ought to just know these dates and file on time
rather than relying on reminders[1] simply isn't getting the job done. I
think we'd get better results if we expect punctuality from podlings, set a
good example by demonstrating punctuality ourselves, and express lenience by
requesting that a podling report next month rather than by accepting a
report too
late to give it the attention it deserves.
The problem is that at present the reminders have to be sent out
manually[2],
and despite the best of intentions, humans are not ideal replacements for
cron
jobs. It's time to ask again: what would it take to get those reminders
firing with unerring reliability three weeks before the Board meeting? Is
it
realistic to attempt a patch eliminating the need for an svn password?
Marvin Humphrey
[1] http://s.apache.org/PIj
[2] http://s.apache.org/dwM
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--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/
email: sanjiva@wso2.com; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1
650 265 8311
blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 6:10 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> ....I still wonder about DeviceMap. I suspect a lot of people were hit with conference travel of various types....
Correct, and sorry about that - can we push DeviceMap to next month?
-Bertrand
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Oct 6, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> Dave Fisher DeviceMap
>>> Dave Fisher Spark
>>
>> Although there are no reports yet.
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matt Franklin <m....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Missing the ODF Toolkit report for this month.
>
> Lots of late or missing reports this month!
>
> As of the due date last Wednesday, 8 podlings out of 16 had not reported:
>
> * Chukwa
> * DeviceMap
> * Helix
> * ODF Toolkit
> * Ripple
> * Samza
> * Spark
> * Stratos
>
> Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark filed a
> report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
> which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
> yet."
I've read the report. Good info there about JIRA. I updated my shepherd's note, but left Marvin's/
I still wonder about DeviceMap. I suspect a lot of people were hit with conference travel of various types.
Regards,
Dave
>
> It's inconvenient to receive podling reports late. Mentors have less time to
> sign off and possibly comment; shepherds don't get to take the podling's own
> self-examination into account when conducting their reviews.
>
> Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month instead.
> That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
>
> In the past, the Incubator PMC has not done a good job of following up when
> reports are missed entirely, arguably contributing to our losing track of
> low-activity podlings and delaying intervention. I've started doing it a bit,
> though I've missed at least one (NPanday did not file in August but there was
> no followup AFAIK). It might be nice to build a remedy into the reporting run
> book -- something like this:
>
> After filing the report, perform the following steps for each podling
> which did not report:
>
> * Edit podlings.xml to set the "monthly" reporting attribute for the
> podling.
> * Send a message to the podling's dev list requesting that they
> file an out-of-cycle report next month as a makeup.
>
> One possible contributing factor is that podlings are still not getting a
> full week's notice to file their reports. Sure, reporting isn't a huge task,
> but when you're new to creating reports it takes much longer.
>
> The argument that podlings ought to just know these dates and file on time
> rather than relying on reminders[1] simply isn't getting the job done. I
> think we'd get better results if we expect punctuality from podlings, set a
> good example by demonstrating punctuality ourselves, and express lenience by
> requesting that a podling report next month rather than by accepting a
> report too
> late to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> The problem is that at present the reminders have to be sent out manually[2],
> and despite the best of intentions, humans are not ideal replacements for cron
> jobs. It's time to ask again: what would it take to get those reminders
> firing with unerring reliability three weeks before the Board meeting? Is it
> realistic to attempt a patch eliminating the need for an svn password?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/PIj
> [2] http://s.apache.org/dwM
>
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Re: Too many late reports
Posted by Joseph Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
The script has options for pulling the svn
data out of a local repo, it's just that I
don't run the script on a host with such a
repo available. I'm however willing to do that
if someone is willing to fully automate the process
by providing some frontend code for the script
that ensures the script will only run on the right
Wednesdays of the month. There is some pretty
sophisticated date processing in the script right
now just to figure out the current date sets, so
it should be straightforward to reuse that logic
for the purpose of determining which Wednesdays
the script should actually run on. Once we have
that setting up a cron job on erie will be easy.
On Oct 7, 2013, at 12:19 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> Dave Fisher DeviceMap
>>> Dave Fisher Spark
>>
>> Although there are no reports yet.
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matt Franklin <m....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Missing the ODF Toolkit report for this month.
>
> Lots of late or missing reports this month!
>
> As of the due date last Wednesday, 8 podlings out of 16 had not reported:
>
> * Chukwa
> * DeviceMap
> * Helix
> * ODF Toolkit
> * Ripple
> * Samza
> * Spark
> * Stratos
>
> Since then, Chukwa and Helix filed their reports late Saturday; Spark filed a
> report today -- *after* Dave Fisher had filed his shepherding commentary,
> which concludes with the sentence "I'm not sure why they have not reported
> yet."
>
> It's inconvenient to receive podling reports late. Mentors have less time to
> sign off and possibly comment; shepherds don't get to take the podling's own
> self-examination into account when conducting their reviews.
>
> Perhaps it would be better if we ask late podlings to file next month instead.
> That's what the Board asks TLPs to do when their reports show up too late.
>
> In the past, the Incubator PMC has not done a good job of following up when
> reports are missed entirely, arguably contributing to our losing track of
> low-activity podlings and delaying intervention. I've started doing it a bit,
> though I've missed at least one (NPanday did not file in August but there was
> no followup AFAIK). It might be nice to build a remedy into the reporting run
> book -- something like this:
>
> After filing the report, perform the following steps for each podling
> which did not report:
>
> * Edit podlings.xml to set the "monthly" reporting attribute for the
> podling.
> * Send a message to the podling's dev list requesting that they
> file an out-of-cycle report next month as a makeup.
>
> One possible contributing factor is that podlings are still not getting a
> full week's notice to file their reports. Sure, reporting isn't a huge task,
> but when you're new to creating reports it takes much longer.
>
> The argument that podlings ought to just know these dates and file on time
> rather than relying on reminders[1] simply isn't getting the job done. I
> think we'd get better results if we expect punctuality from podlings, set a
> good example by demonstrating punctuality ourselves, and express lenience by
> requesting that a podling report next month rather than by accepting a
> report too
> late to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> The problem is that at present the reminders have to be sent out manually[2],
> and despite the best of intentions, humans are not ideal replacements for cron
> jobs. It's time to ask again: what would it take to get those reminders
> firing with unerring reliability three weeks before the Board meeting? Is it
> realistic to attempt a patch eliminating the need for an svn password?
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/PIj
> [2] http://s.apache.org/dwM
>
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