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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2007/01/31 18:32:48 UTC
Change to Board reporting process
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> The only thing that slightly annoyed the Board was that *we* had to
> red-flag it - which means that the Incubator PMC is not reviewing
> the reports as a whole before it is sent to the Board.
I wonder if anyone other than me is reading everything before or even after
it is submitted. And without the Mentors actively flagging "HOUSTON, WE
HAVE A *PROBLEM*", it is likely that people skim reports without noticing
the problem.
> One suggestion could be to have an IRC (or even via phone) meeting
> of the Incubator PMC before the Board meeting
That would almost certainly be logistically infeasible. On a personal note,
it would likely result in my resigning as PMC Chair for the same reason that
I annually disqualify myself from running for Board election. However, if
the goal is to prod the Incubator PMC into more closely reviewing the status
reports, we could try an alternative.
For example, rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
is due (and, factually, finishing herding tardy projects the day that the
report is filed), we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each month,
or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to review and approve
the report before it is submitted to the Board.
--- Noel
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Jan 31, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> I wonder if anyone other than me is reading everything before or
> even after
> it is submitted.
I tend to read all board reports, and read the ones for which I'm on
a PMC, or previously was a (formal or not) mentor for, completely. I
usually get to that on average a half-month after the board has a
meeting (eg read them once every two months). :/
- LSD
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 2/2/07, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> I see it as more of a chance for the Incubator PMC to ask for
> additional details, clarifications, and amendments to reports from
> podlings, rather than a more strict +1/0/-1 vote. In that regard, it
> would be similar to the Directors' comments on TLP reports, which tend
> to essentially be questions and requests for clarifications that the
> TLP then addresses as needed.
>
> I would hope that podlings act on this feedback from the Incubator PMC
> in a timely manner, and ideally update their Board reports in time for
> the Board meeting.
Exactly. -- justin
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On 2/2/07, Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net> wrote:
> I assume that vote would just be about the reports submitted by podlings, not your personal > notes add to the report ? The latter shouldn't be subject to votes in my opinion..
I see it as more of a chance for the Incubator PMC to ask for
additional details, clarifications, and amendments to reports from
podlings, rather than a more strict +1/0/-1 vote. In that regard, it
would be similar to the Directors' comments on TLP reports, which tend
to essentially be questions and requests for clarifications that the
TLP then addresses as needed.
I would hope that podlings act on this feedback from the Incubator PMC
in a timely manner, and ideally update their Board reports in time for
the Board meeting.
Yoav
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>
> For example, rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> is due (and, factually, finishing herding tardy projects the day that the
> report is filed), we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each month,
> or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to review and approve
> the report before it is submitted to the Board.
>
I assume that vote would just be about the reports submitted by podlings, not your personal notes
add to the report ? The latter shouldn't be subject to votes in my opinion..
Mvgr,
Martin
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 1/31/07, Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> On 1/31/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > For example, rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> > is due (and, factually, finishing herding tardy projects the day that the
> > report is filed), we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each month,
> > or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to review and approve
> > the report before it is submitted to the Board.
>
> Sure - that could work - anything which enforces a review prior to it
> landing in the Board's lap is an improvement.
it would allow (not enforce) a review so it's probably a good idea
maybe a little more ceremony would be a good useful
perhaps the official report could be assemble in subversion using RTC
from submissions on the wiki (a variation of dim's suggestion)
perhaps the community should approve an initial draft with a vote 3
+1's required
i'm not sure we have any process in place for missed reports
asking for reports to be submitted in good time would allow the PMC to
ask that the mentors agree a report if the community fails to create
one in time
we should also ask for a report to be agreed by the community
immediately and definitely before the next board meeting
maybe the three month rule for regular reporting also needs to be
thought about. i'm not so worried about a project that takes a while
to bootstrap: it can take a long time to sort out legal paperwork but
maybe the regular reporting needs to continue until the project is
operating normally.
- robert
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 1/31/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> For example, rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> is due (and, factually, finishing herding tardy projects the day that the
> report is filed), we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each month,
> or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to review and approve
> the report before it is submitted to the Board.
Sure - that could work - anything which enforces a review prior to it
landing in the Board's lap is an improvement. -- justin
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>.
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On 1/31/07, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> +1. How about we add a section on the wiki page where each pmc member
>> can signoff as having reviewed the report.
>
> Good idea. How about if 3 Incubator PMC members have not reviewed
> each podling's report, it is removed before it is submitted to the
> Board? -- justin
Sounds reasonable. +1
Alex
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 1/31/07, Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1. How about we add a section on the wiki page where each pmc member
> can signoff as having reviewed the report.
Good idea. How about if 3 Incubator PMC members have not reviewed
each podling's report, it is removed before it is submitted to the
Board? -- justin
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
+1. How about we add a section on the wiki page where each pmc member
can signoff as having reviewed the report.
-- dims
On 1/31/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>
> > The only thing that slightly annoyed the Board was that *we* had to
> > red-flag it - which means that the Incubator PMC is not reviewing
> > the reports as a whole before it is sent to the Board.
>
> I wonder if anyone other than me is reading everything before or even after
> it is submitted. And without the Mentors actively flagging "HOUSTON, WE
> HAVE A *PROBLEM*", it is likely that people skim reports without noticing
> the problem.
>
> > One suggestion could be to have an IRC (or even via phone) meeting
> > of the Incubator PMC before the Board meeting
>
> That would almost certainly be logistically infeasible. On a personal note,
> it would likely result in my resigning as PMC Chair for the same reason that
> I annually disqualify myself from running for Board election. However, if
> the goal is to prod the Incubator PMC into more closely reviewing the status
> reports, we could try an alternative.
>
> For example, rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> is due (and, factually, finishing herding tardy projects the day that the
> report is filed), we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each month,
> or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to review and approve
> the report before it is submitted to the Board.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>
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>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://wso2.org/ :: Oxygen for Web Services Developers
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hola,
On 1/31/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Yoav Shapira wrote:
>
> > Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > > rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> > > is [due], we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each
> > > month, or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to
> > > review and approve the report before it is submitted to the Board.
>
> > +1. Sometimes when I notice stuff that I want to ask about, or maybe
> > have a report amended to address something, it's usually too late and
> > too close to the Board meeting. Having a bit more review time would
> > help.
>
> Would you mind going through the board calendar (in SVN) and setting up the
> remaining 2007 wiki pages, with cut-off dates in the main index page?
This is basically done now.
> What do people think of adding a column to
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects for when each project has to report?
+1.
Yoav
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On 1/31/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Would you mind going through the board calendar (in SVN) and setting up the
> remaining 2007 wiki pages, with cut-off dates in the main index page?
No, I don't particularly mind. I'll try to do it by the weekend.
> What do people think of adding a column to
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects for when each project has to report?
+1.
Yoav
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RE: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Yoav Shapira wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> > is [due], we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each
> > month, or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to
> > review and approve the report before it is submitted to the Board.
> +1. Sometimes when I notice stuff that I want to ask about, or maybe
> have a report amended to address something, it's usually too late and
> too close to the Board meeting. Having a bit more review time would
> help.
Would you mind going through the board calendar (in SVN) and setting up the
remaining 2007 wiki pages, with cut-off dates in the main index page?
What do people think of adding a column to
http://incubator.apache.org/projects for when each project has to report?
--- Noel
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Re: Change to Board reporting process
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
Hola,
On 1/31/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> I wonder if anyone other than me is reading everything before or even after
I try, but...
> For example, rather than close the cat-herding the weekend before the report
> is due (and, factually, finishing herding tardy projects the day that the
> report is filed), we could set a cut-off of the second Monday of each month,
> or similarly appropriate date, and give the PMC a week to review and approve
> the report before it is submitted to the Board.
+1. Sometimes when I notice stuff that I want to ask about, or maybe
have a report amended to address something, it's usually too late and
too close to the Board meeting. Having a bit more review time would
help.
Yoav
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