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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Matthew Langham <ml...@s-und-n.de> on 2003/02/26 14:09:55 UTC
That's it
Don't worry - this is good news really :-).
A few weeks ago you - the developers - voted me in to the Cocoon
committer-world. Although somewhat sceptical I accepted proudly. Now I would
like to give up being a committer - and as the PMC consists of committers -
that also.
The reason being that Cocoon is becoming too successfull! And to be honest -
in the last couple of months - things have gone through the roof.
Since we started out working with and on Cocoon (nearly 3 years ago now) we
have seen Cocoon grow to become what can now be called a real success. This
has lead to my role at S&N changing into a more managerial position. I am
becoming something of a "Commercial Open Source Manager" (an interesting
tightrope to walk) with lots of exciting work (much of which I can't yet
talk about). Look out for some interesting announcements from the commercial
arena in the next few months though.
Carsten is still "our man in Cocoon" and therefore we will not really be
reducing our role. But I feel that if you are a committer - you should
commit. And this is something I will not be able to do in the near future.
Not in the original sense anyway.
But I will still be here in the community.
Matthew
--
Open Source Group Cocoon { Consulting, Training, Projects }
=================================================================
Matthew Langham, S&N AG, Klingenderstrasse 5, D-33100 Paderborn
Tel:+49-5251-1581-30 mlangham@s-und-n.de - http://www.s-und-n.de
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cocoon book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735712352/needacake-20
Weblogs:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103021/
http://www.oreillynet.com/weblogs/author/1014
=================================================================
Re: That's it
Posted by Ovidiu Predescu <ov...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday, Feb 26, 2003, at 07:27 US/Pacific, Santiago Gala wrote:
> Matthew Langham wrote:
> (...)
>
>> reducing our role. But I feel that if you are a committer - you should
>> commit. And this is something I will not be able to do in the near
>> future.
>> Not in the original sense anyway.
>
> Reading, watching and answering emails is "committing" knowledge to
> the project repository. Think of the message-ids of your mails like
> "versions" ;-)
>
> Also, consolidating documentation is, IMO, refactoring knowledge, and
> bringing fresh "customer" views to the team also. Even "evangelizing"
> or training, although the metrics for these activities are not yet
> here.
Or writing books for that matter! Very good points, I cannot agree more.
Is something that needs to be done and none of us is in a position to
do it better than Matthew is.
Regards,
Ovidiu
Re: That's it
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Matthew Langham wrote:
(...)
> reducing our role. But I feel that if you are a committer - you should
> commit. And this is something I will not be able to do in the near future.
> Not in the original sense anyway.
>
Reading, watching and answering emails is "committing" knowledge to the
project repository. Think of the message-ids of your mails like
"versions" ;-)
Also, consolidating documentation is, IMO, refactoring knowledge, and
bringing fresh "customer" views to the team also. Even "evangelizing" or
training, although the metrics for these activities are not yet here.
I think there was a heavy discussion on this @ jakarta-general or
community, and I heartedly agree with them.
> But I will still be here in the community.
>
> Matthew
>
Regards,
Santiago (less and less productive code-wise, but still committed
to Apache, in Stefano's previous posting sense)
That's not it - Was: That's it
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@s-und-n.de>.
>
> > You mean I get a -1 on wanting to leave? It's a prison :-).
>
> No. It's not a -1, nobody can force you to do something or to keep a
> title if you don't want it.
>
That was a joke.
> But if you feel that you should be removed *only* because you haven't
> committed much code, well, that's where you get my -1 because, as I
> said, committership is not about "committing" to the project, it's about
> "being committed" to the project.
>
> This is how I feel, but hey, you have the last word on this.
Yes I know what you think and that's great. If everyone else is comfortable
with this and the rule applies to committers in general - that's fine also.
But please speak up if you disagree (and I would fully understand it).
I'll withdraw my request to leave committership then. This ride has only
started - after all :-).
Matthew
Re: That's it
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Matthew Langham wrote:
> You mean I get a -1 on wanting to leave? It's a prison :-).
No. It's not a -1, nobody can force you to do something or to keep a
title if you don't want it.
If you feel that having this title is hurting you in any way (and you
don't even have to specify why), I'll be happy to remove you.
But if you feel that you should be removed *only* because you haven't
committed much code, well, that's where you get my -1 because, as I
said, committership is not about "committing" to the project, it's about
"being committed" to the project.
This is how I feel, but hey, you have the last word on this.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: That's it
Posted by Matthew Langham <ml...@s-und-n.de>.
Stefano,
> Uff, don't use titles like those, they scare the crap out of me :)
Sorry about the title. Just waking people up :-).
> Wow, you are the first person ever who asked to be removed for
> committership.
>
Really? I am surprised. Being a committer makes me feel I should be
committing (code). And sitting accross the table from Carsten doesn't help
:-). I really valued the vote (as you know) but I don't consider being a
committer to being an empty title.
> While I sincerely appreciated this mail (as Pier noticed, I believe this
> community shows its value and apache spirit thru these respectful
> behaviors), I'm starting to think to reject your dismission since this
> would force us to kick you out of the PMC or to have non-committers in
> the PMC.
>
You mean I get a -1 on wanting to leave? It's a prison :-).
> you think that committers have to commit. Wrong. Committers are those
> 'committed'. Inversion of Control :)
>
> Can you say you lost your committment to Cocoon?
>
You know the answer to that (and please don't twist my words :-)).
Matthew
Re: That's it
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Matthew Langham wrote:
> Don't worry - this is good news really :-).
Uff, don't use titles like those, they scare the crap out of me :)
> A few weeks ago you - the developers - voted me in to the Cocoon
> committer-world. Although somewhat sceptical I accepted proudly. Now I would
> like to give up being a committer - and as the PMC consists of committers -
> that also.
>
> The reason being that Cocoon is becoming too successfull! And to be honest -
> in the last couple of months - things have gone through the roof.
>
> Since we started out working with and on Cocoon (nearly 3 years ago now) we
> have seen Cocoon grow to become what can now be called a real success. This
> has lead to my role at S&N changing into a more managerial position. I am
> becoming something of a "Commercial Open Source Manager" (an interesting
> tightrope to walk) with lots of exciting work (much of which I can't yet
> talk about). Look out for some interesting announcements from the commercial
> arena in the next few months though.
>
> Carsten is still "our man in Cocoon" and therefore we will not really be
> reducing our role. But I feel that if you are a committer - you should
> commit. And this is something I will not be able to do in the near future.
> Not in the original sense anyway.
>
> But I will still be here in the community.
Wow, you are the first person ever who asked to be removed for
committership.
While I sincerely appreciated this mail (as Pier noticed, I believe this
community shows its value and apache spirit thru these respectful
behaviors), I'm starting to think to reject your dismission since this
would force us to kick you out of the PMC or to have non-committers in
the PMC.
you think that committers have to commit. Wrong. Committers are those
'committed'. Inversion of Control :)
Can you say you lost your committment to Cocoon?
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: That's it
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Matthew Langham" <ml...@s-und-n.de> wrote:
> Don't worry - this is good news really :-).
>
> A few weeks ago you - the developers - voted me in to the Cocoon
> committer-world. Although somewhat sceptical I accepted proudly. Now I would
> like to give up being a committer - and as the PMC consists of committers -
> that also.
>
> The reason being that Cocoon is becoming too successfull! And to be honest -
> in the last couple of months - things have gone through the roof.
>
> Since we started out working with and on Cocoon (nearly 3 years ago now) we
> have seen Cocoon grow to become what can now be called a real success. This
> has lead to my role at S&N changing into a more managerial position. I am
> becoming something of a "Commercial Open Source Manager" (an interesting
> tightrope to walk) with lots of exciting work (much of which I can't yet
> talk about). Look out for some interesting announcements from the commercial
> arena in the next few months though.
>
> Carsten is still "our man in Cocoon" and therefore we will not really be
> reducing our role. But I feel that if you are a committer - you should
> commit. And this is something I will not be able to do in the near future.
> Not in the original sense anyway.
>
> But I will still be here in the community.
>
> Matthew
Matthew... We were talking about PMCs and committer roles and
responsibilities for _a_long_ time on several lists on Jakarta, and it
always struck me how they do not understand that being a committer is not
only a privilege, but first a responsibility towards the Apache Software
Foundation...
What you are saying here strikes me as the _exact_opposite_ as what the
Jakartans think, responsibilities first, right then.
Your email makes me feel that _this_ community is _the_one_ I want to be
involved with, it makes me feel proud of being a part of it.
High respect for you, and although it's sad to see a person leave your
attitude as you show it right now will make me blindfully give you a big +1
and a welcome back whenever you decide to return.
Pier