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Posted to user@turbine.apache.org by Martin Jericho <ma...@jabcreative.com> on 2002/04/19 05:12:27 UTC
Newbie questions
I've installed tdk2.1 and had a good look at the sample application. Now I
want to create my own.
Q1: Is there any documentation on how to create a project from scratch?
Q2: If no such documentation exists, is my assumption correct that the best
way to do it is doing the following:
1. Create a new directory for the new project <projectdir>
2. Copy <tdk>/share/sample/build to <projectdir>/build
3. Create other files as required for new project
4. Modify <tdk>/build.properties to point to the new project
5. Execute ant in the <tdk> directory
6. Execute ant init in <tdk>/webapps/WEB-INF/build
I'm sure there would be a lot of other changes to properties files and
things along the way, but is this the broad plan?
Q3: In my application, I need to add a few fields to the turbine-user
table. Can I combine all of the turbine security tables, id_table and all
of my tables into the one schema file or is there a good reason to keep them
separate?
Q4: I've seen in another post to this mailing list that someone mentioned a
sample bookstore application. Where is this?
I've found the navigation of the turbine website and documentation pretty
hard to use, probably because the documentation is contributed by many
people and never really consolidated. There's a good chance that the
answers to these questions are there somewhere, but I haven't been able to
find them!
Thanks for any help.
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Re: Newbie questions
Posted by Martin Jericho <ma...@jabcreative.com>.
I have determined that I don't actually need any security for the initial
version, and only very basic security in the medium term, which doesn't
require groups or roles. In the long term I will need the more advanced
features, so I will revisit flux when the time comes. I have actually
implemented a complex security system before, so I do know what I'm getting
myself in for if I write my own.
So now that I don't want to use security at all, I am starting to wonder
whether I need to work with the turbine framework at all. Why can't I just
use the velocity framework together with standalone torque and just make use
of the other turbine utility classes directly from the jar file? Then I
could use the latest version of torque, and would not have to start my
application by taking all of the flux stuff out of the sample application.
What other neat turbine features would I be missing out on if I did this?
Is there really no way of creating a new application from scratch without
starting with the sample application?
After taking a closer look at the enhydra solution, it looks like it's in a
similar state to turbine, with a lot of holes in the documentation and the
whole framework undergoing major changes in the next version. So I think
I'll stick with jakarta tools.
The biggest problem I'm having is finding out how to get started!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diederik de Groot" <dd...@talon.nl>
To: "Turbine Users List" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>; "Martin Jericho"
<ma...@bla.bla>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Newbie questions
> Hi Martin,
>
> Simple solution if you are in a hurry,
>
> Just implement the standard extended user as described on the website. For
> foreignkeys in the app_user (extended user) just implement the ID's and
not
> the actually foreign connection. Be sure to insert the actuall data where
> necessary and you will be fine. You just do the foreignkey stuff yourself
in
> code.
>
> I could not figure out how to get foreignkeys implemented in 2.1 for the
> extended user so i did it this way for a while and it worked fine. After
> your deadline has gone you can make the transition to 2.2b2 which is
actuall
> very stable i must say.
>
> Hope this helps. Implementeting a security system is not simple at all and
> cost you much more time that this simple fix. If you don't need foreign
keys
> than just follow the extend user howto on the turbine site.
>
> Hope this helps you,
>
> DIederik
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Jericho [mailto:martin.j@jabcreative.com]
> > Sent: maandag 22 april 2002 3:24
> > To: Turbine Users List
> > Subject: Re: Newbie questions
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the comments Diederik. I also read your other posts
regarding
> > version 2.2b1, and I'm starting to have doubts as to whether I should be
> > using Flux, or even Torque at all.
> >
> > Here is my predicament:
> >
> > I am developing a new application from scratch. It is not a
particularly
> > complicated, but it has an extremely short deadline, so I can't afford
the
> > luxury of becoming intimate with Turbine's innards just to get
> > the simplest
> > of things to work.
> >
> > I have pretty much decided that I will have to implement my own security
> > instead of using flux. It just looks too inflexible and cumbersome at
the
> > moment, and the discussions about turbine/fulcrum security, and
> > even version
> > 3.0 features is something I don't have time to investigate. I certainly
> > don't want to be using beta versions, but if I stick with 2.1 it
> > sounds like
> > I will have to rewrite (and even re-design) a lot of code in the (near?)
> > future.
> >
> > Question: Does Flux even allow you to store passwords in digest
> > format or do
> > they have to be plain text?
> >
> > The big question is whether to use Torque. Should I use
> > turbine's torque or
> > the standalone? Is it even possible to use the standalone version with
> > turbine 2.1 if I'm not using turbine security?
> >
> > I am also considering using enhydra for object-relational mapping and
> > security. Does anyone know enough about both turbine and enhydra to
offer
> > any comparisons? I will definitely be using velocity for certain parts
of
> > the system, and I initially concentrated on turbine so as to avoid
mixing
> > technologies, but I think maybe now a mixture might be the way to
> > go. There
> > are still a few useful classes in turbine which I will be able to
> > make good
> > use of, and I have already seen some minor shortcomings which I
> > will have to
> > extend and hopefully contribute back to the project.
> >
> > Any thoughts apprectiated
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Diederik de Groot" <dd...@talon.nl>
> > To: "Turbine Users List" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>;
> > "Martin Jericho"
> > <ma...@bla.bla>
> > Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:03 PM
> > Subject: RE: Newbie questions
> >
> >
> > > Hi Martin
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Martin Jericho [mailto:martin.j@jabcreative.com]
> > > > Sent: vrijdag 19 april 2002 5:12
> > > > To: turbine-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Newbie questions
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've installed tdk2.1 and had a good look at the sample
> > > > application. Now I
> > > > want to create my own.
> > > >
> > > > Q1: Is there any documentation on how to create a project
> > from scratch?
> > >
> > > Not really, most people just copy newapp and start changing that
> > application
> > > to what they want preciesly. At least if you want the integration with
> > > flux/fulcrum to remain working (The security system)
> > >
> > > > Q2: If no such documentation exists, is my assumption correct
> > > > that the best
> > > > way to do it is doing the following:
> > > > 1. Create a new directory for the new project <projectdir>
> > > > 2. Copy <tdk>/share/sample/build to <projectdir>/build
> > > > 3. Create other files as required for new project
> > > > 4. Modify <tdk>/build.properties to point to the new project
> > > > 5. Execute ant in the <tdk> directory
> > > > 6. Execute ant init in <tdk>/webapps/WEB-INF/build
> > > > I'm sure there would be a lot of other changes to properties
files
> > and
> > > > things along the way, but is this the broad plan?
> > > >
> > >
> > > See Q1
> > >
> > > > Q3: In my application, I need to add a few fields to the
turbine-user
> > > > table. Can I combine all of the turbine security tables, id_table
and
> > all
> > > > of my tables into the one schema file or is there a good reason
> > > > to keep them
> > > > separate?
> > >
> > > If you want to extend User you can find a howto on the website, you
will
> > see
> > > that it is not so easy in 2.1. You should not combine the two xml
files
> > > because differnt sources are created out ot the two. In 2.1 not source
> > code
> > > is generated after the turbine-schema.xml, this ia already build-in.
In
> > 2.2
> > > extending user has become a little easier. See my comments on this
> > news-list
> > > about extending user in 2.2b1.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Q4: I've seen in another post to this mailing list that someone
> > > > mentioned a
> > > > sample bookstore application. Where is this?
> > >
> > > Love to see one, have never heard about it though.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I've found the navigation of the turbine website and documentation
> > pretty
> > > > hard to use, probably because the documentation is contributed by
many
> > > > people and never really consolidated. There's a good chance that
the
> > > > answers to these questions are there somewhere, but I haven't
> > been able
> > to
> > > > find them!
> > > > Thanks for any help.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: Newbie questions
Posted by Diederik de Groot <dd...@talon.nl>.
Hi Martin,
Simple solution if you are in a hurry,
Just implement the standard extended user as described on the website. For
foreignkeys in the app_user (extended user) just implement the ID's and not
the actually foreign connection. Be sure to insert the actuall data where
necessary and you will be fine. You just do the foreignkey stuff yourself in
code.
I could not figure out how to get foreignkeys implemented in 2.1 for the
extended user so i did it this way for a while and it worked fine. After
your deadline has gone you can make the transition to 2.2b2 which is actuall
very stable i must say.
Hope this helps. Implementeting a security system is not simple at all and
cost you much more time that this simple fix. If you don't need foreign keys
than just follow the extend user howto on the turbine site.
Hope this helps you,
DIederik
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Jericho [mailto:martin.j@jabcreative.com]
> Sent: maandag 22 april 2002 3:24
> To: Turbine Users List
> Subject: Re: Newbie questions
>
>
> Thanks for the comments Diederik. I also read your other posts regarding
> version 2.2b1, and I'm starting to have doubts as to whether I should be
> using Flux, or even Torque at all.
>
> Here is my predicament:
>
> I am developing a new application from scratch. It is not a particularly
> complicated, but it has an extremely short deadline, so I can't afford the
> luxury of becoming intimate with Turbine's innards just to get
> the simplest
> of things to work.
>
> I have pretty much decided that I will have to implement my own security
> instead of using flux. It just looks too inflexible and cumbersome at the
> moment, and the discussions about turbine/fulcrum security, and
> even version
> 3.0 features is something I don't have time to investigate. I certainly
> don't want to be using beta versions, but if I stick with 2.1 it
> sounds like
> I will have to rewrite (and even re-design) a lot of code in the (near?)
> future.
>
> Question: Does Flux even allow you to store passwords in digest
> format or do
> they have to be plain text?
>
> The big question is whether to use Torque. Should I use
> turbine's torque or
> the standalone? Is it even possible to use the standalone version with
> turbine 2.1 if I'm not using turbine security?
>
> I am also considering using enhydra for object-relational mapping and
> security. Does anyone know enough about both turbine and enhydra to offer
> any comparisons? I will definitely be using velocity for certain parts of
> the system, and I initially concentrated on turbine so as to avoid mixing
> technologies, but I think maybe now a mixture might be the way to
> go. There
> are still a few useful classes in turbine which I will be able to
> make good
> use of, and I have already seen some minor shortcomings which I
> will have to
> extend and hopefully contribute back to the project.
>
> Any thoughts apprectiated
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Diederik de Groot" <dd...@talon.nl>
> To: "Turbine Users List" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>;
> "Martin Jericho"
> <ma...@bla.bla>
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:03 PM
> Subject: RE: Newbie questions
>
>
> > Hi Martin
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Martin Jericho [mailto:martin.j@jabcreative.com]
> > > Sent: vrijdag 19 april 2002 5:12
> > > To: turbine-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > Subject: Newbie questions
> > >
> > >
> > > I've installed tdk2.1 and had a good look at the sample
> > > application. Now I
> > > want to create my own.
> > >
> > > Q1: Is there any documentation on how to create a project
> from scratch?
> >
> > Not really, most people just copy newapp and start changing that
> application
> > to what they want preciesly. At least if you want the integration with
> > flux/fulcrum to remain working (The security system)
> >
> > > Q2: If no such documentation exists, is my assumption correct
> > > that the best
> > > way to do it is doing the following:
> > > 1. Create a new directory for the new project <projectdir>
> > > 2. Copy <tdk>/share/sample/build to <projectdir>/build
> > > 3. Create other files as required for new project
> > > 4. Modify <tdk>/build.properties to point to the new project
> > > 5. Execute ant in the <tdk> directory
> > > 6. Execute ant init in <tdk>/webapps/WEB-INF/build
> > > I'm sure there would be a lot of other changes to properties files
> and
> > > things along the way, but is this the broad plan?
> > >
> >
> > See Q1
> >
> > > Q3: In my application, I need to add a few fields to the turbine-user
> > > table. Can I combine all of the turbine security tables, id_table and
> all
> > > of my tables into the one schema file or is there a good reason
> > > to keep them
> > > separate?
> >
> > If you want to extend User you can find a howto on the website, you will
> see
> > that it is not so easy in 2.1. You should not combine the two xml files
> > because differnt sources are created out ot the two. In 2.1 not source
> code
> > is generated after the turbine-schema.xml, this ia already build-in. In
> 2.2
> > extending user has become a little easier. See my comments on this
> news-list
> > about extending user in 2.2b1.
> >
> > >
> > > Q4: I've seen in another post to this mailing list that someone
> > > mentioned a
> > > sample bookstore application. Where is this?
> >
> > Love to see one, have never heard about it though.
> >
> > >
> > > I've found the navigation of the turbine website and documentation
> pretty
> > > hard to use, probably because the documentation is contributed by many
> > > people and never really consolidated. There's a good chance that the
> > > answers to these questions are there somewhere, but I haven't
> been able
> to
> > > find them!
> > > Thanks for any help.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Newbie questions
Posted by Martin Jericho <ma...@jabcreative.com>.
Thanks for the comments Diederik. I also read your other posts regarding
version 2.2b1, and I'm starting to have doubts as to whether I should be
using Flux, or even Torque at all.
Here is my predicament:
I am developing a new application from scratch. It is not a particularly
complicated, but it has an extremely short deadline, so I can't afford the
luxury of becoming intimate with Turbine's innards just to get the simplest
of things to work.
I have pretty much decided that I will have to implement my own security
instead of using flux. It just looks too inflexible and cumbersome at the
moment, and the discussions about turbine/fulcrum security, and even version
3.0 features is something I don't have time to investigate. I certainly
don't want to be using beta versions, but if I stick with 2.1 it sounds like
I will have to rewrite (and even re-design) a lot of code in the (near?)
future.
Question: Does Flux even allow you to store passwords in digest format or do
they have to be plain text?
The big question is whether to use Torque. Should I use turbine's torque or
the standalone? Is it even possible to use the standalone version with
turbine 2.1 if I'm not using turbine security?
I am also considering using enhydra for object-relational mapping and
security. Does anyone know enough about both turbine and enhydra to offer
any comparisons? I will definitely be using velocity for certain parts of
the system, and I initially concentrated on turbine so as to avoid mixing
technologies, but I think maybe now a mixture might be the way to go. There
are still a few useful classes in turbine which I will be able to make good
use of, and I have already seen some minor shortcomings which I will have to
extend and hopefully contribute back to the project.
Any thoughts apprectiated
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diederik de Groot" <dd...@talon.nl>
To: "Turbine Users List" <tu...@jakarta.apache.org>; "Martin Jericho"
<ma...@bla.bla>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: Newbie questions
> Hi Martin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Jericho [mailto:martin.j@jabcreative.com]
> > Sent: vrijdag 19 april 2002 5:12
> > To: turbine-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > Subject: Newbie questions
> >
> >
> > I've installed tdk2.1 and had a good look at the sample
> > application. Now I
> > want to create my own.
> >
> > Q1: Is there any documentation on how to create a project from scratch?
>
> Not really, most people just copy newapp and start changing that
application
> to what they want preciesly. At least if you want the integration with
> flux/fulcrum to remain working (The security system)
>
> > Q2: If no such documentation exists, is my assumption correct
> > that the best
> > way to do it is doing the following:
> > 1. Create a new directory for the new project <projectdir>
> > 2. Copy <tdk>/share/sample/build to <projectdir>/build
> > 3. Create other files as required for new project
> > 4. Modify <tdk>/build.properties to point to the new project
> > 5. Execute ant in the <tdk> directory
> > 6. Execute ant init in <tdk>/webapps/WEB-INF/build
> > I'm sure there would be a lot of other changes to properties files
and
> > things along the way, but is this the broad plan?
> >
>
> See Q1
>
> > Q3: In my application, I need to add a few fields to the turbine-user
> > table. Can I combine all of the turbine security tables, id_table and
all
> > of my tables into the one schema file or is there a good reason
> > to keep them
> > separate?
>
> If you want to extend User you can find a howto on the website, you will
see
> that it is not so easy in 2.1. You should not combine the two xml files
> because differnt sources are created out ot the two. In 2.1 not source
code
> is generated after the turbine-schema.xml, this ia already build-in. In
2.2
> extending user has become a little easier. See my comments on this
news-list
> about extending user in 2.2b1.
>
> >
> > Q4: I've seen in another post to this mailing list that someone
> > mentioned a
> > sample bookstore application. Where is this?
>
> Love to see one, have never heard about it though.
>
> >
> > I've found the navigation of the turbine website and documentation
pretty
> > hard to use, probably because the documentation is contributed by many
> > people and never really consolidated. There's a good chance that the
> > answers to these questions are there somewhere, but I haven't been able
to
> > find them!
> > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: Newbie questions
Posted by Diederik de Groot <dd...@talon.nl>.
Hi Martin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Jericho [mailto:martin.j@jabcreative.com]
> Sent: vrijdag 19 april 2002 5:12
> To: turbine-user@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Newbie questions
>
>
> I've installed tdk2.1 and had a good look at the sample
> application. Now I
> want to create my own.
>
> Q1: Is there any documentation on how to create a project from scratch?
Not really, most people just copy newapp and start changing that application
to what they want preciesly. At least if you want the integration with
flux/fulcrum to remain working (The security system)
> Q2: If no such documentation exists, is my assumption correct
> that the best
> way to do it is doing the following:
> 1. Create a new directory for the new project <projectdir>
> 2. Copy <tdk>/share/sample/build to <projectdir>/build
> 3. Create other files as required for new project
> 4. Modify <tdk>/build.properties to point to the new project
> 5. Execute ant in the <tdk> directory
> 6. Execute ant init in <tdk>/webapps/WEB-INF/build
> I'm sure there would be a lot of other changes to properties files and
> things along the way, but is this the broad plan?
>
See Q1
> Q3: In my application, I need to add a few fields to the turbine-user
> table. Can I combine all of the turbine security tables, id_table and all
> of my tables into the one schema file or is there a good reason
> to keep them
> separate?
If you want to extend User you can find a howto on the website, you will see
that it is not so easy in 2.1. You should not combine the two xml files
because differnt sources are created out ot the two. In 2.1 not source code
is generated after the turbine-schema.xml, this ia already build-in. In 2.2
extending user has become a little easier. See my comments on this news-list
about extending user in 2.2b1.
>
> Q4: I've seen in another post to this mailing list that someone
> mentioned a
> sample bookstore application. Where is this?
Love to see one, have never heard about it though.
>
> I've found the navigation of the turbine website and documentation pretty
> hard to use, probably because the documentation is contributed by many
> people and never really consolidated. There's a good chance that the
> answers to these questions are there somewhere, but I haven't been able to
> find them!
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>