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Posted to dev@ws.apache.org by Tom Jordahl <to...@macromedia.com> on 2003/09/16 15:37:21 UTC
RE: Use Forrest (Re: Updating all ws project sites to use the mir
rored downloads)
Is their a reason to use a "system" for creating a web site as opposed to (for instance) just editing the files with DreamWeaver (or something) directly?
I am not really excited on having to learn a new technology just to update a project web site, but I would be interested in hearing about how Forrest would make my life easier.
--
Tom Jordahl
Macromedia Server Development
-----Original Message-----
From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:dims@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:35 PM
To: general@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Use Forrest (Re: Updating all ws project sites to use the mirrored downloads)
Tetsuya,
I will back you up under one condition. You need to get a current committer of say Apache Axis to
start a VOTE for standardizing Axis web site. Then when majority VOTE's ok, then you (and the
committers) for that project can start the process of forrestizing that particular project. This
should NOT be forced from above. For example, you will have my +1 for Apache Axis site when there
is a VOTE in the axis-dev mailing list NOT on the general mailing list. The reason is in the long
run the committers for a project are responsible for the web site of their project.
Thanks,
dims
--- Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sanjiva, All
>
> Thank you for putting your precious "plus one" to me :-)
>
> I think the standardization of the website build would be important
> for us (ws-proj). However, at the same time, we have to think of
> the human resources to accomplish the standardizations.
>
> I would love to volunteer to make changes on the current structures of
> each (XMLRPC, SOAP, etc.) subprojects to be fit to what the FORREST
> requires. Current XMLRPC (and SOAP/WS/wsrp4j..gyaaa Anakia!) members do
> not have to think of and master the Apache Forrest itself.
> # Also, I will put a page on ws.apache.org about "HOW TO BUILD WEBSITES".
> # in the near future.
>
> On the supposition of it described above, what would you all say? :-)
> Opinions?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:36:30 +0600
> (Subject: Re: Updating all ws project sites to use the mirrored downloads)
> "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sa...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree that in principle its in the hands of the XMLRPC committers.
> > However, it would indeed be VERY nice IMO if the WS project were
> > to standardize on a build system, at least for new projects that
> > we start up. Having standardized infrastructure makes it easier
> > for developers to move across projects, for example.
> >
> > I'm a +1 for Tetsuya's suggestion.
> >
> > Sanjiva.
> <snip/>
>
>
=====
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
Re: Use Forrest (Re: Updating all ws project sites to use the mir rored downloads)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Hi, Tom and All (general@ws)
Thank you for the comment.
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:37:21 -0400
Tom Jordahl <to...@macromedia.com> wrote:
> Is their a reason to use a "system" for creating a web site as opposed
> to (for instance) just editing the files with DreamWeaver (or
> something) directly?
1. Everybody can create beautiful websites (WoW) easily, not knowing
the usage of dreamweaver (for instance).
2. Stored in XML forms, so we can transform into various forms in the
future, by using XSLT.
3. Current Axis website use the function of "frame", however,
it is not "google-friendly" ;-) from the view of search
engine optimization. Forrest-ized Websites all have left-side
navigations in each pages and are very much google-friendly.
4. Easy to manage
5. Consistency, consistency ...
6. Listed at http://xml.apache.org/forrest/live-sites.html (Yay!)
under "Live-Site using Forrest"
7. (More to be come?)
> I am not really excited on having to learn a new technology just to
> update a project web site, but I would be interested in hearing about
> how Forrest would make my life easier.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently,
Axis: (No Tool ... writing HTMLs by hands)
Soap: (Apache Cocoon: older version)
XSIF: (Apache Forrest)
XSIL: (X)
XMLRPC: (Apache Maven)
WSRP4J: (Anakia/Velocity)
WS-SITE:(Apache Forrest)
.... inconsistency (divided against itself) .... :-(
--
When you think of the re-build of web services project (as a whole),
you have to download at least "Maven", "Forrest", "Velocity",
"Ant" and "(Cocoon)?" at the same time .... and maybe you would
be enforced to buy "DreamWeaver" ;-)
If we standardize the website build system into "Apache Forrest",
you/we do not have to download many tools and need just *one* "Forrest".
--
Also, you manage the website contents in XML forms, so you do not
have to think of the output, now multiple output formats supported,
currently HTML and PDF (using Apache FOP). For example, Apache Forrest
provides us three skins by default: "avalon-skin", "forrest-skin"
and "krysalis-skin"
"avalon-skin": e.g. http://avalon.apache.org/
"forrest-skin": e.g. http://xml.apache.org/
"krysalis-skin": e.g. http://ws.apache.org/
You will be able to see the other features from
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/index.html
and ask to forrest-ized folks :-) at forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
(in opensource manner).
Also, ForrestBot site (http://forrestbot.cocoondev.org/ .. will be
merged into apache.org soon, we hope!) will help us in publishing
HTML/PDFs from XMLs automatically (or by hand). Once the XML files
would be uploaded, forrestbot will pay much attention to the whole
websites.
I think there are more remarkable functions in Apache Forrest, however,
I want to pass the baton to Forrest Development Team for more details.
;-)
Thanks,
-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Tom Jordahl
> Macromedia Server Development
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:dims@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 7:35 PM
> To: general@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Use Forrest (Re: Updating all ws project sites to use the mirrored downloads)
>
> Tetsuya,
>
> I will back you up under one condition. You need to get a current
> committer of say Apache Axis to start a VOTE for standardizing Axis
> web site. Then when majority VOTE's ok, then you (and the committers)
> for that project can start the process of forrestizing that
> particular project. This should NOT be forced from above. For example,
> you will have my +1 for Apache Axis site when there is a VOTE in the
> axis-dev mailing list NOT on the general mailing list. The reason is
> in the long run the committers for a project are responsible for the
> web site of their project.
>
> Thanks,
> dims
>
> --- Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Sanjiva, All
> >
> > Thank you for putting your precious "plus one" to me :-)
> >
> > I think the standardization of the website build would be important
> > for us (ws-proj). However, at the same time, we have to think of
> > the human resources to accomplish the standardizations.
> >
> > I would love to volunteer to make changes on the current structures of
> > each (XMLRPC, SOAP, etc.) subprojects to be fit to what the FORREST
> > requires. Current XMLRPC (and SOAP/WS/wsrp4j..gyaaa Anakia!) members do
> > not have to think of and master the Apache Forrest itself.
> > # Also, I will put a page on ws.apache.org about "HOW TO BUILD WEBSITES".
> > # in the near future.
> >
> > On the supposition of it described above, what would you all say? :-)
> > Opinions?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > -- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
> >
> > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:36:30 +0600
> > (Subject: Re: Updating all ws project sites to use the mirrored downloads)
> > "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sa...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that in principle its in the hands of the XMLRPC committers.
> > > However, it would indeed be VERY nice IMO if the WS project were
> > > to standardize on a build system, at least for new projects that
> > > we start up. Having standardized infrastructure makes it easier
> > > for developers to move across projects, for example.
> > >
> > > I'm a +1 for Tetsuya's suggestion.
> > >
> > > Sanjiva.
<snip/>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: tetsuya@apache.org http://www.terra-intl.com/