Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com>]

I've previously written a jQueryMobile app served up by Tapestry and found
that I had to approach it by writing TML files that were pretty much just a
handful of divs as placeholders for JavaScript to fill in. Tapestry handled
all the events (AJAX requests) and returned JSON objects full of data for
JavaScript to turn into HTML and append to the divs.

I didn't get around to trying to handle input but I'd guess t wouldn't be
very pleasant.

Can anyone tell me whether their PhoneGap experience was similar, or is it
possible to make more use of Tapestry rendering? Even better, can it make
use of Tapestry form handling? Is there, perhaps, a way with PhoneGap to
make use of the full, glorious, Tapestry AJAX experience?

Cheers,

Geoff

Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Magnus Kvalheim <ma...@kvalheim.eu>]

Yes, I'm also a little puzzled how Exfm got away with it.. :)


Think apps that are distributed through appstore needs to go through the
normal approval process.

... but, Apple does have an Enterprise program where apps are not required
to be approved by them. Could be a viable option, but comes with a steeper
price-tag.
https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/enterprise

/magnus



On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:44 AM, Geoff Callender <
geoff.callender.jumpstart@gmail.com> wrote:

> Excellent point, Magnus. I wonder how Exfm got away with it?
>
> My app is actually for use within a business, ie. it's not public, but the
> users will be very geographically dispersed; so I will look into whether
> the App Store has more relaxed rules for Enterprise apps.
>
> BTW, the tips in the Exfm blog entry are great. Thanks.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 22/01/2014, at 9:42 PM, Magnus Kvalheim wrote:
>
> > Hi Geoff.
> >
> > Think Apple guys officially don't look too kind on views(full markup,
> > assets) created outside of app.
> > It could mean that look'n feel - and possibly behavior may change after
> > it's been approved as it's controlled from server.
> > You 'may' risk a possible rejection based on that.
> >
> > That said, I know Exfm quite successfully and publicly have gone down
> > similar routes so chances are you could be fine..
> > http://phonegap.com/blog/2013/04/23/story-behind-exfm/
> >
> > Just my 2 cents :-)
> >
> > /magnus
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Lance Java <lance.java@googlemail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> You're not going to be able to host a tapestry app on the phone since
> (to
> >> my knowledge) you can't run a jvm / servlet container on IOS. I've heard
> >> that jetty has been ported to android but you still won't be able to run
> >> Tapestry on android since ASM won't work on Dalvik.
> >>
> >> So, these things taken into account, I think you are left with the phone
> >> maknig request / response calls to a remote tapestry app. I guess your
> >> choice is to generate the html serverside or to get json responses from
> >> tapestry and render the DOM clientside in javascript.
> >>
> >> Since you've already taken the performance hit of a request / response,
> I
> >> don't see a problem with using tapestry to generate the HTML serverside.
> >> I'm slightly biased towards generating markup serverside. I try to avoid
> >> javascript where possible which is why I love tapestry. This would mean
> >> your app is basically a glorified browser :)
> >>
> >> If you want to render the dom clientside using javascript then you might
> >> want to use tapestry-resteasy to help with the restful backend services
> >>
>
>
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>

Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com>]

Excellent point, Magnus. I wonder how Exfm got away with it? 

My app is actually for use within a business, ie. it's not public, but the users will be very geographically dispersed; so I will look into whether the App Store has more relaxed rules for Enterprise apps.

BTW, the tips in the Exfm blog entry are great. Thanks.

Geoff

On 22/01/2014, at 9:42 PM, Magnus Kvalheim wrote:

> Hi Geoff.
> 
> Think Apple guys officially don't look too kind on views(full markup,
> assets) created outside of app.
> It could mean that look'n feel - and possibly behavior may change after
> it's been approved as it's controlled from server.
> You 'may' risk a possible rejection based on that.
> 
> That said, I know Exfm quite successfully and publicly have gone down
> similar routes so chances are you could be fine..
> http://phonegap.com/blog/2013/04/23/story-behind-exfm/
> 
> Just my 2 cents :-)
> 
> /magnus
> 
> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Lance Java <la...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> 
>> You're not going to be able to host a tapestry app on the phone since (to
>> my knowledge) you can't run a jvm / servlet container on IOS. I've heard
>> that jetty has been ported to android but you still won't be able to run
>> Tapestry on android since ASM won't work on Dalvik.
>> 
>> So, these things taken into account, I think you are left with the phone
>> maknig request / response calls to a remote tapestry app. I guess your
>> choice is to generate the html serverside or to get json responses from
>> tapestry and render the DOM clientside in javascript.
>> 
>> Since you've already taken the performance hit of a request / response, I
>> don't see a problem with using tapestry to generate the HTML serverside.
>> I'm slightly biased towards generating markup serverside. I try to avoid
>> javascript where possible which is why I love tapestry. This would mean
>> your app is basically a glorified browser :)
>> 
>> If you want to render the dom clientside using javascript then you might
>> want to use tapestry-resteasy to help with the restful backend services
>> 


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Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Barry Books <tr...@gmail.com>]

I've written a few iPhone apps and tried PhoneGap for one of them. If you
are only targeting iOS then I think it's easier to just write a native app.
Objective C with ARC using Xcode is a more polished development environment
than HTML5 (not to say Tapestry/Java/HTML5/Eclipse is bad).

I would also say Bootstrap works pretty well on a phone and even web apps
have access to location services and the camera. If you don't need anything
else I'd stick to a real web app.

If you are trying to write a cross platform app with a small team PhoneGap
might be a good solution, but in my case (team of 1) I choose to just
target iOS instead of trying to be cross platform.


On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:23 AM, Lance Java <la...@googlemail.com>wrote:

> A great blog post. Mott looks like the way forward. I'm going to have to
> embrace javascript at some stage :(
>

Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Lance Java <la...@googlemail.com>]

A great blog post. Mott looks like the way forward. I'm going to have to
embrace javascript at some stage :(

Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Magnus Kvalheim <ma...@kvalheim.eu>]

Hi Geoff.

Think Apple guys officially don't look too kind on views(full markup,
assets) created outside of app.
It could mean that look'n feel - and possibly behavior may change after
it's been approved as it's controlled from server.
You 'may' risk a possible rejection based on that.

That said, I know Exfm quite successfully and publicly have gone down
similar routes so chances are you could be fine..
http://phonegap.com/blog/2013/04/23/story-behind-exfm/

Just my 2 cents :-)

/magnus

On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Lance Java <la...@googlemail.com>wrote:

> You're not going to be able to host a tapestry app on the phone since (to
> my knowledge) you can't run a jvm / servlet container on IOS. I've heard
> that jetty has been ported to android but you still won't be able to run
> Tapestry on android since ASM won't work on Dalvik.
>
> So, these things taken into account, I think you are left with the phone
> maknig request / response calls to a remote tapestry app. I guess your
> choice is to generate the html serverside or to get json responses from
> tapestry and render the DOM clientside in javascript.
>
> Since you've already taken the performance hit of a request / response, I
> don't see a problem with using tapestry to generate the HTML serverside.
> I'm slightly biased towards generating markup serverside. I try to avoid
> javascript where possible which is why I love tapestry. This would mean
> your app is basically a glorified browser :)
>
> If you want to render the dom clientside using javascript then you might
> want to use tapestry-resteasy to help with the restful backend services
>

Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 08:29:11 -0200, Lance Java <la...@googlemail.com>  
wrote:

> javascript where possible which is why I love tapestry. This would mean
> your app is basically a glorified browser :)

Well, isn't PhoneGap/Apache Cordova just a way of writing apps in HTML,  
JavaScrpipt and CSS, all that actually running in a browser? ;)

-- 
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Tapestry, Java and Hibernate consultant and developer
http://machina.com.br

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Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Lance Java <la...@googlemail.com>]

You're not going to be able to host a tapestry app on the phone since (to
my knowledge) you can't run a jvm / servlet container on IOS. I've heard
that jetty has been ported to android but you still won't be able to run
Tapestry on android since ASM won't work on Dalvik.

So, these things taken into account, I think you are left with the phone
maknig request / response calls to a remote tapestry app. I guess your
choice is to generate the html serverside or to get json responses from
tapestry and render the DOM clientside in javascript.

Since you've already taken the performance hit of a request / response, I
don't see a problem with using tapestry to generate the HTML serverside.
I'm slightly biased towards generating markup serverside. I try to avoid
javascript where possible which is why I love tapestry. This would mean
your app is basically a glorified browser :)

If you want to render the dom clientside using javascript then you might
want to use tapestry-resteasy to help with the restful backend services

Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com>]

I have 50% already written, as a T5.4 web app, and have been asked to investigate moving the whole thing to PhoneGap, for iPad, so I'm looking for pointers from people's experience.

I'm open to whatever technique makes the best use of Tapestry. Equally, if someone thinks Tap has no place in PhoneGap then I'm keen to hear that too. 

On 22/01/2014, at 8:38 AM, Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo wrote:

> Where do you intend to run Tapestry? Inside the device or in a server?
> 
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:50:38 -0200, Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've previously written a jQueryMobile app served up by Tapestry and found
>> that I had to approach it by writing TML files that were pretty much just a
>> handful of divs as placeholders for JavaScript to fill in. Tapestry handled
>> all the events (AJAX requests) and returned JSON objects full of data for
>> JavaScript to turn into HTML and append to the divs.
>> 
>> I didn't get around to trying to handle input but I'd guess t wouldn't be
>> very pleasant.
>> 
>> Can anyone tell me whether their PhoneGap experience was similar, or is it
>> possible to make more use of Tapestry rendering? Even better, can it make
>> use of Tapestry form handling? Is there, perhaps, a way with PhoneGap to
>> make use of the full, glorious, Tapestry AJAX experience?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Geoff
> 
> 
> -- 
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Tapestry, Java and Hibernate consultant and developer
> http://machina.com.br
> 
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Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo <th...@gmail.com>]

Where do you intend to run Tapestry? Inside the device or in a server?

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:50:38 -0200, Geoff Callender  
<ge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've previously written a jQueryMobile app served up by Tapestry and  
> found
> that I had to approach it by writing TML files that were pretty much  
> just a
> handful of divs as placeholders for JavaScript to fill in. Tapestry  
> handled
> all the events (AJAX requests) and returned JSON objects full of data for
> JavaScript to turn into HTML and append to the divs.
>
> I didn't get around to trying to handle input but I'd guess t wouldn't be
> very pleasant.
>
> Can anyone tell me whether their PhoneGap experience was similar, or is  
> it
> possible to make more use of Tapestry rendering? Even better, can it make
> use of Tapestry form handling? Is there, perhaps, a way with PhoneGap to
> make use of the full, glorious, Tapestry AJAX experience?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Geoff


-- 
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Tapestry, Java and Hibernate consultant and developer
http://machina.com.br

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Re: Any thoughts on Tapestry with PhoneGap?

[Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com>]

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts. 

I went ahead and got my web app running in PhoneGap. For the record, here's what I found.,,

My app worked without change! The only piece I had to put into the PhoneGap project was a simple home page with a link to the existing web app. I put a "Sign In" link on the home page. It requests the SignIn page from the server. Up it came. Magic! 

So PhoneGap really does act as a glorified browser. I didn't have to re-code my app to be a single web page, and I didn't have to re-architect it into JavaScript client-side making REST calls to the server. It worked without change.

However, that leads to the question that Magnus posed in this thread, of whether Apple will look kindly on an app whose behaviour can change after it has been approved...? I'll pick that up in a reply to his post.

On 21/01/2014, at 11:50 PM, Geoff Callender wrote:

> I've previously written a jQueryMobile app served up by Tapestry and found that I had to approach it by writing TML files that were pretty much just a handful of divs as placeholders for JavaScript to fill in. Tapestry handled all the events (AJAX requests) and returned JSON objects full of data for JavaScript to turn into HTML and append to the divs. 
> 
> I didn't get around to trying to handle input but I'd guess t wouldn't be very pleasant.
> 
> Can anyone tell me whether their PhoneGap experience was similar, or is it possible to make more use of Tapestry rendering? Even better, can it make use of Tapestry form handling? Is there, perhaps, a way with PhoneGap to make use of the full, glorious, Tapestry AJAX experience?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Geoff


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