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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> on 2006/09/17 22:42:30 UTC
Swing console?
Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
I dunno.. just a thought...
--jason
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com>.
Aaron,
that will be a lot of Jiras.
I have experimented a lot with security realms and keystore entries.
Effectively every error in this area prevents the server from starting.
GERONIMO-2366 and GERONIMO-2367 are just two of the problems I have experienced.
For most of the parameters console does not sufficiently performs validation.
And there is no recovery at startup.
Heinz
On 9/21/06, Aaron Mulder <am...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote:
> Just for the record, any time you need to manually modify config.xml
> to get Geronimo to start or work correctly, please please file a Jira
> issue with the details -- we need to fix those regardless of what
> technology the console uses.
>
> Personally, I'm not so keen on a console that runs without the server
> running, but I'm open to discussion on it. It doesn't matter so much
> to me whether the console is web or Swing. But personally, I'd be
> more inclined to refactor it all to use the Spring portlet framework
> than to refactor it into Swing.
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron
>
> On 9/18/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is a good suggestion.
> >
> > I agree with your opinion about webapps.
> > Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
> > configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing risks.
> > I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started again
> >
> > Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because this
> > could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
> >
> > Heinz
> >
> > On 9/17/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
> > > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> > > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> > > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> > > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> > > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> > > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
> > >
> > > I dunno.. just a thought...
> > >
> > > --jason
> > >
> >
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Aaron Mulder <am...@alumni.princeton.edu>.
Just for the record, any time you need to manually modify config.xml
to get Geronimo to start or work correctly, please please file a Jira
issue with the details -- we need to fix those regardless of what
technology the console uses.
Personally, I'm not so keen on a console that runs without the server
running, but I'm open to discussion on it. It doesn't matter so much
to me whether the console is web or Swing. But personally, I'd be
more inclined to refactor it all to use the Spring portlet framework
than to refactor it into Swing.
Thanks,
Aaron
On 9/18/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is a good suggestion.
>
> I agree with your opinion about webapps.
> Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
> configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing risks.
> I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started again
>
> Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because this
> could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
>
> Heinz
>
> On 9/17/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
> > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
> >
> > I dunno.. just a thought...
> >
> > --jason
> >
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Simone Bordet <si...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 9/21/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
> Ah, thats good news... I was not aware of this.
>
> The webstart config does not download all platform natives for a
> given run does it?
No, it does not, if the JNLP file has something like:
<jnlp>
...
<resources>
<!-- common jars -->
</resources>
<resources os="Linux">
<!-- Linux-specific jars -->
</resources>
</jnlp>
Simon
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com>.
Ah, thats good news... I was not aware of this.
The webstart config does not download all platform natives for a
given run does it?
--jason
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Simone Bordet wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 9/21/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
>> Can Eclipse be webstarted?
>
> Yes, since Eclipse 3.1.
>
> Simon
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Simone Bordet <si...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 9/21/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
> Can Eclipse be webstarted?
Yes, since Eclipse 3.1.
Simon
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com>.
Can Eclipse be webstarted?
--jason
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:17 AM, Simone Bordet wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 9/18/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> That is a good suggestion.
>>
>> I agree with your opinion about webapps.
>> Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
>> configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing
>> risks.
>> I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started
>> again
>>
>> Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because
>> this
>> could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
>
> Just to mention that at LiveTribe we're building an Eclipse-based RCP
> console, and the goals are to use the plugin architecture of Eclipse
> to create a completely modular RCP application that can manage/monitor
> the most common app servers, with the ability of replacing completely
> the UI if you don't like it (or for special management purposes).
>
> We're currently doing this for Jetty, next in list is G and AMQ.
>
> Simon
> --
> http://livetribe.codehaus.org
> http://bordet.blogspot.com
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Simone Bordet <si...@gmail.com>.
Heinz,
On 9/21/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Simon,
>
> that sounds great.
> Is there already something available to get a starting point?
Well, for now a very small starting point, but we're open to ideas.
Code is at https://svn.codehaus.org/livetribe/nursery/livetribe-console/trunk,
tomorrow I am going to write some docs about how to build it and what
environment is needed.
Simon
--
http://livetribe.codehaus.org
http://bordet.blogspot.com
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com>.
Hello Simon,
that sounds great.
Is there already something available to get a starting point?
Heinz
On 9/21/06, Simone Bordet <si...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 9/18/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That is a good suggestion.
> >
> > I agree with your opinion about webapps.
> > Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
> > configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing risks.
> > I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started again
> >
> > Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because this
> > could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
>
> Just to mention that at LiveTribe we're building an Eclipse-based RCP
> console, and the goals are to use the plugin architecture of Eclipse
> to create a completely modular RCP application that can manage/monitor
> the most common app servers, with the ability of replacing completely
> the UI if you don't like it (or for special management purposes).
>
> We're currently doing this for Jetty, next in list is G and AMQ.
>
> Simon
> --
> http://livetribe.codehaus.org
> http://bordet.blogspot.com
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Sachin Patel <sp...@gmail.com>.
Awesome! Let me know if and how I can help.
On Sep 21, 2006, at 2:17 PM, Simone Bordet wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 9/18/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> That is a good suggestion.
>>
>> I agree with your opinion about webapps.
>> Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
>> configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing
>> risks.
>> I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started
>> again
>>
>> Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because
>> this
>> could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
>
> Just to mention that at LiveTribe we're building an Eclipse-based RCP
> console, and the goals are to use the plugin architecture of Eclipse
> to create a completely modular RCP application that can manage/monitor
> the most common app servers, with the ability of replacing completely
> the UI if you don't like it (or for special management purposes).
>
> We're currently doing this for Jetty, next in list is G and AMQ.
>
> Simon
> --
> http://livetribe.codehaus.org
> http://bordet.blogspot.com
-sachin
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Simone Bordet <si...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 9/18/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is a good suggestion.
>
> I agree with your opinion about webapps.
> Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
> configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing risks.
> I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started again
>
> Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because this
> could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
Just to mention that at LiveTribe we're building an Eclipse-based RCP
console, and the goals are to use the plugin architecture of Eclipse
to create a completely modular RCP application that can manage/monitor
the most common app servers, with the ability of replacing completely
the UI if you don't like it (or for special management purposes).
We're currently doing this for Jetty, next in list is G and AMQ.
Simon
--
http://livetribe.codehaus.org
http://bordet.blogspot.com
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com>.
That is a good suggestion.
I agree with your opinion about webapps.
Especially during development it seems, that using a component to
configure the component which it is dependent on, is increasing risks.
I had several times to manually modify config.xml to get G started again
Personally I would prefer an application based on Eclipse because this
could be nicely integrated with the plugin for launching G.
Heinz
On 9/17/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
>
> I dunno.. just a thought...
>
> --jason
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com>.
Another aspect of the current approach is related to security.
The console in the default configuration runs on the standard http
port and uses just basic authentication. That's as reliable as the
promise of a politician. It's a risk to expose G directly to a public
network but I don't like to run an apache server in front of it just
to protect console from external access. Therefore either an non
webapp as admin function or an own special http server.
Heinz
On 9/19/06, Paul McMahan <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You raise an excellent point, which is that all that functionality in
> the console doesn't do much good if the server won't start. I also
> really like your idea that the console should be able to run in a
> server with a minimalistic configuration. To me this is analogous to
> booting an operating system in recovery mode so you can make repairs
> using the console before rebooting in normal mode. I think this could
> be accomplished by providing a specialized config, say
> var/config/minimal-config.xml, that would get loaded if you passed a
> special flag to geronimo.sh.
>
> The console is not currently implemented in such a way that would
> allow this because it uses Geronimo's dependency system to gain the
> level of access it needs to administer a module. e.g. its deployment
> plan has a dependency against geronimo-activemq-gbean so that it can
> manage ActiveMQ. As a result ActiveMQ needs to be running before the
> console can start But with all the excitement around Little G and
> modularizing the server via plugins we've been talking about changing
> this so that the console can manage incremental bits of function. As
> part of that effort I think that we definitely need to support the use
> case you have brought to our attention -- recovery mode.
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Paul
>
> On 9/19/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > I agree that with Ajax sufficient functionality can be provided in a webapp.
> > My primary argument for a rich client would be as I have said before
> > that a webapp requires a running server. And what should be done if
> > there are problems in the configuration which prevents that the server
> > starts?
> >
> > The console webapp should at least run in a seperate server with
> > minimalistic configuration.
> > Something which I would prefer anyhow instead of the current situation in G.
> >
> > Heinz
> >
> > On 9/19/06, Christopher M. Cardona <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think this idea can be explored but we should give the current
> > > initiative to include Ajax functionality to the console a shot first.
> > > There's no doubt that rich clients have their advantages over web apps
> > > (performance and sophisticated widgets to name a few) but I think we
> > > have a potential in Ajax to close this gap. It would be nice to get more
> > > comments on this. What do others think?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jason Dillon wrote:
> > > > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> > > > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> > > > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> > > > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> > > > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> > > > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
> > > >
> > > > I dunno.. just a thought...
> > > >
> > > > --jason
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Paul McMahan <pa...@gmail.com>.
You raise an excellent point, which is that all that functionality in
the console doesn't do much good if the server won't start. I also
really like your idea that the console should be able to run in a
server with a minimalistic configuration. To me this is analogous to
booting an operating system in recovery mode so you can make repairs
using the console before rebooting in normal mode. I think this could
be accomplished by providing a specialized config, say
var/config/minimal-config.xml, that would get loaded if you passed a
special flag to geronimo.sh.
The console is not currently implemented in such a way that would
allow this because it uses Geronimo's dependency system to gain the
level of access it needs to administer a module. e.g. its deployment
plan has a dependency against geronimo-activemq-gbean so that it can
manage ActiveMQ. As a result ActiveMQ needs to be running before the
console can start But with all the excitement around Little G and
modularizing the server via plugins we've been talking about changing
this so that the console can manage incremental bits of function. As
part of that effort I think that we definitely need to support the use
case you have brought to our attention -- recovery mode.
Best wishes,
Paul
On 9/19/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I agree that with Ajax sufficient functionality can be provided in a webapp.
> My primary argument for a rich client would be as I have said before
> that a webapp requires a running server. And what should be done if
> there are problems in the configuration which prevents that the server
> starts?
>
> The console webapp should at least run in a seperate server with
> minimalistic configuration.
> Something which I would prefer anyhow instead of the current situation in G.
>
> Heinz
>
> On 9/19/06, Christopher M. Cardona <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think this idea can be explored but we should give the current
> > initiative to include Ajax functionality to the console a shot first.
> > There's no doubt that rich clients have their advantages over web apps
> > (performance and sophisticated widgets to name a few) but I think we
> > have a potential in Ajax to close this gap. It would be nice to get more
> > comments on this. What do others think?
> >
> >
> > Jason Dillon wrote:
> > > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> > > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> > > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> > > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> > > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> > > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
> > >
> > > I dunno.. just a thought...
> > >
> > > --jason
> > >
> >
> >
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Agreed. Aside from the UI aspect, managing a server from within the
server process is limited by definition. Ideally there should be a
rich client and some kind of server-side daemon that can bounce the
server process and provide access to configuration when the server is
down.
One other advantage would be an ability to manage multiple instances
of Geronimo from the single console. From the recent experience the
lack of this capability is the single biggest concern in migrating to
Geronimo from commercial app servers.
Andrus
On Sep 19, 2006, at 2:30 AM, Heinz Drews wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I agree that with Ajax sufficient functionality can be provided in
> a webapp.
> My primary argument for a rich client would be as I have said before
> that a webapp requires a running server. And what should be done if
> there are problems in the configuration which prevents that the server
> starts?
>
> The console webapp should at least run in a seperate server with
> minimalistic configuration.
> Something which I would prefer anyhow instead of the current
> situation in G.
>
> Heinz
>
> On 9/19/06, Christopher M. Cardona <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think this idea can be explored but we should give the current
>> initiative to include Ajax functionality to the console a shot first.
>> There's no doubt that rich clients have their advantages over web
>> apps
>> (performance and sophisticated widgets to name a few) but I think we
>> have a potential in Ajax to close this gap. It would be nice to
>> get more
>> comments on this. What do others think?
>>
>>
>> Jason Dillon wrote:
>> > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console...
>> instead of
>> > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
>> > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
>> > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to
>> create
>> > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
>> > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
>> >
>> > I dunno.. just a thought...
>> >
>> > --jason
>> >
>>
>>
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net>.
I think that moving to a swing based console at this point in time would
be the wrong move. As Chris and Paul have mentioned, Ajax and other
technologies are moving toward closing the function/usability gap for
web based applications. A web based console provides greater
flexibility for administration from various device types in the future.
And rich clients introduce another whole set of client issues that
we then have to consider. Technologies like JWS do help with the
install/mgmt of the clients but don't address other client side issues
such as verification on multiple (sometimes obscure) platforms, JRE
versions on the client, hardware requirements, etc...
I agree with the exposure that Heinz has pointed out of running the
admin console on the same platform that it is managing. However I think
we need to view the admin console within the complete context of
Geronimo. The console is a great usability enhancement in managing
Geronimo and for most users is the primary way that they will manage
Geronimo. However, it is not (and should not) be the only management
tool. Anything that is possible with the web console should also be
possible (but not necessarily as easy) via some some other means.
It would be good if we could insulate the console further from the
server (possibly running it on it's own minimal configuration as Greg
mentioned) but we need to consider the server cost/benefit trade-off any
such choices.
Joe
Heinz Drews wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I agree that with Ajax sufficient functionality can be provided in a
> webapp.
> My primary argument for a rich client would be as I have said before
> that a webapp requires a running server. And what should be done if
> there are problems in the configuration which prevents that the server
> starts?
>
> The console webapp should at least run in a seperate server with
> minimalistic configuration.
> Something which I would prefer anyhow instead of the current situation
> in G.
>
> Heinz
>
> On 9/19/06, Christopher M. Cardona <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think this idea can be explored but we should give the current
>> initiative to include Ajax functionality to the console a shot first.
>> There's no doubt that rich clients have their advantages over web apps
>> (performance and sophisticated widgets to name a few) but I think we
>> have a potential in Ajax to close this gap. It would be nice to get more
>> comments on this. What do others think?
>>
>>
>> Jason Dillon wrote:
>> > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
>> > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
>> > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
>> > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
>> > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
>> > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
>> >
>> > I dunno.. just a thought...
>> >
>> > --jason
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com>.
Chris,
I agree that with Ajax sufficient functionality can be provided in a webapp.
My primary argument for a rich client would be as I have said before
that a webapp requires a running server. And what should be done if
there are problems in the configuration which prevents that the server
starts?
The console webapp should at least run in a seperate server with
minimalistic configuration.
Something which I would prefer anyhow instead of the current situation in G.
Heinz
On 9/19/06, Christopher M. Cardona <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think this idea can be explored but we should give the current
> initiative to include Ajax functionality to the console a shot first.
> There's no doubt that rich clients have their advantages over web apps
> (performance and sophisticated widgets to name a few) but I think we
> have a potential in Ajax to close this gap. It would be nice to get more
> comments on this. What do others think?
>
>
> Jason Dillon wrote:
> > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> > a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> > serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> > I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> > a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> > support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
> >
> > I dunno.. just a thought...
> >
> > --jason
> >
>
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by "Christopher M. Cardona" <ch...@gmail.com>.
I think this idea can be explored but we should give the current
initiative to include Ajax functionality to the console a shot first.
There’s no doubt that rich clients have their advantages over web apps
(performance and sophisticated widgets to name a few) but I think we
have a potential in Ajax to close this gap. It would be nice to get more
comments on this. What do others think?
Jason Dillon wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
>
> I dunno.. just a thought...
>
> --jason
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
I am +1 on the general idea. For all its flaws, Swing/webstart is
great for that type of applications. I only suggest replacing
"instead of a webapp" with "as an alternative to a webapp", at least
until there is something usable to do a comparison.
Regarding the plugin engine to power it, we had a long discussion on
Cayenne list what engine to use for the next generation of our ORM
modeler tool. Our desire was to make it as easy and lightweight as
possible. We decided to stay away from heavier Eclipse, NetBeans and
OSGi engines in favor of a more lightweight environment. Our current
winner is Platonos [2] - the framework jar is only 64k, you can't
beat that.
I did some prototyping [1] of a Platonos/Swing engine, although
that's too raw yet. And I can certainly help on the engine side if
this idea gains traction.
Andrus
[1] http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/lists/cayenne-devel/2006/06/0026.html
[2] http://sourceforge.net/projects/platonos
On Sep 17, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead
> of a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart
> to serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL
> friendly)? I've done some work with NB before at it would be very
> easy to create a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in
> new modules to support different aspects of administration and
> monitoring.
>
> I dunno.. just a thought...
>
> --jason
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Paul McMahan <pa...@gmail.com>.
There's currently some momentum towards adding more AJAX functionality
to the console which may address some of your concerns. I would
really like to get your feedback on GERONIMO-2333. I'm excited about
seeing more functionality like this in the console. Do you think this
is a good direction for us to go?
One advantage to using a webapp vs. an application deployed and
managed via webstart, Eclipse or NB is that it allows us to test and
improve the same J2EE and plugin framework that many apps deployed in
Geronimo will use. If we can do it right then it's a great way to
show how powerful Geronimo can be. To me that's an extremely
compelling reason to continue investing in the web interface. I also
think it's great to provide a solution that runs in the server and
keeps the client footprint to a minimum. But that doesn't mean there
aren't a multitude of advantages to providing consoles based on other
platforms. I hope we can continue to collect input from that point of
view.
Best wishes,
Paul
On 9/17/06, Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead of
> a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart to
> serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL friendly)?
> I've done some work with NB before at it would be very easy to create
> a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in new modules to
> support different aspects of administration and monitoring.
>
> I dunno.. just a thought...
>
> --jason
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Paul McMahan <pa...@gmail.com>.
On 9/20/06, Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What should be done first and how can I help?
This discussion has brought several valid points to light. For each
of these points I think it would be helpful to know if there is some
creative way to improve the current web based implementation to
address the real issue, at least in some limited way, or decide that
we're truly constrained by the UI platform. The ideas for improvement
can generate JIRAs against the current admin console and the
"unavoidable" issues could either be addressed by making improvements
to the command line interface or serve as the basis for discussion
about a new alternate/special purpose UI. A first pass at that list
would be very helpful.
Best wishes,
Paul
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Heinz Drews <he...@gmail.com>.
The Swing console in WAS could only be used as an example how rich
clients should not be done. The integrated console in WSAD was
significantly better but was not providing all functions.
But if you start referring WAS, there the admin console is started on
a different http port, can be forced to http in a very simple way. It
can run i.e. on the cell component independently from server instances
and can manage all servers in a distributed / clustered environment.
All things I miss in G.
But I'm not complaining, just listing options.
What should be done first and how can I help?
Heinz
On 9/20/06, Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org> wrote:
> If IBM's experience is any indicator the Swing Management Console
> disappeared in WebSphere Version 5 because customers didn't like a
> heavyweight thing to carry around. The overwhelming response from
> users was give us a web console. FWIW.
>
> On Sep 17, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:
>
> > Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead
> > of a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart
> > to serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL
> > friendly)? I've done some work with NB before at it would be very
> > easy to create a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in
> > new modules to support different aspects of administration and
> > monitoring.
> >
> > I dunno.. just a thought...
> >
> > --jason
> >
> >
>
> Matt Hogstrom
> matt@hogstrom.org
>
>
>
>
Re: Swing console?
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>.
If IBM's experience is any indicator the Swing Management Console
disappeared in WebSphere Version 5 because customers didn't like a
heavyweight thing to carry around. The overwhelming response from
users was give us a web console. FWIW.
On Sep 17, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Jason Dillon wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on using Swing for the console... instead
> of a webapp (which are kinda evil IMO)... and then using webstart
> to serve it? Maybe using Netbeans (or that license not ASL
> friendly)? I've done some work with NB before at it would be very
> easy to create a rich user experience... and its easy to drop in
> new modules to support different aspects of administration and
> monitoring.
>
> I dunno.. just a thought...
>
> --jason
>
>
Matt Hogstrom
matt@hogstrom.org