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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> on 2015/11/21 06:09:12 UTC
Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible? Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services. However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE (www.kaiyuanshe.org<http://www.kaiyuanshe.org>, the first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more roadshow details here.
- ASF "Foundation" blog http://s.apache.org/q2L<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d>
- @TheASF Twitter feed https://twitter.com/TheASF/status/664920266397646848<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0GFRwPs%3d>
- announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
- ASF dedicated media/analyst list
- http://apache.org/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAFN4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d> home page
After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the China community steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
Ted Liu
Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
Co-founding member of KAIYUANSHE
Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by ARIJIT DAS <ar...@gmail.com>.
Is there any country wise community exists in Apache? then please refer me
to Apache India..
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> One important reason for forming the Apache China Community is to overcome
> the language barrier. We will help the Apache fans (developers, users,
> etc.) in this region to understand the Apache Way and it's projects better
> thru offline and online engagement with localized contents and
> communications.
>
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Ted Liu<ma...@microsoft.com>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/21 13:09
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
>
> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>
> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible? Please
> see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>
> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, such
> as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities and
> enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE (
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aU1IdKXJFsLE9Vx%2fbc1njr7kgE2EB62MKn%2fir7MKE%2f8%3d
> <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.kaiyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=upfzyaexHO2mDLTasHS%2bzluhrr0QQuHo0kj8zEOuoa8%3d>,
> the first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and
> enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading
> international OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in
> China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> in China.
>
> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> roadshow details here.
>
> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eQrpkQtF%2fnPByY2ZibzMNmIWE9vhtUVfdhM0qqjhx5s%3d
> <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >
> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=uCDIOvuQAOKpkz0PPt4g%2fr8THpNYyApOH649qHxEwFo%3d
> <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0GFRwPs%3d
> >
> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> -
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lcuF5wiLR5HhPngVjqsdEzyiF4Io3yaUyIcebodcRug%3d
> <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAFN4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> home page
>
> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a China
> community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this roadshow
> and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were unaware of the
> events. So far, there already are many volunteers, including Apache
> members, PMC members, committers, contributors, developers and users, who
> are willing to join the China community steering committee and working
> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in China and bridge
> between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
>
> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in China
> or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> Ted Liu
> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> Co-founding member of KAIYUANSHE
>
答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
One important reason for forming the Apache China Community is to overcome the language barrier. We will help the Apache fans (developers, users, etc.) in this region to understand the Apache Way and it's projects better thru offline and online engagement with localized contents and communications.
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Ted Liu<ma...@microsoft.com>
发送时间: 2015/11/21 13:09
收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
主题: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible? Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services. However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aU1IdKXJFsLE9Vx%2fbc1njr7kgE2EB62MKn%2fir7MKE%2f8%3d<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.kaiyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=upfzyaexHO2mDLTasHS%2bzluhrr0QQuHo0kj8zEOuoa8%3d>, the first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more roadshow details here.
- ASF "Foundation" blog https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eQrpkQtF%2fnPByY2ZibzMNmIWE9vhtUVfdhM0qqjhx5s%3d<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d>
- @TheASF Twitter feed https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=uCDIOvuQAOKpkz0PPt4g%2fr8THpNYyApOH649qHxEwFo%3d<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0GFRwPs%3d>
- announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
- ASF dedicated media/analyst list
- https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c05f3ed02f931457f5f4208d2f231fe25%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lcuF5wiLR5HhPngVjqsdEzyiF4Io3yaUyIcebodcRug%3d<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAFN4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d> home page
After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the China community steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
Ted Liu
Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
Co-founding member of KAIYUANSHE
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
I was a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for contribution.
The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible.
What do you think about creating a parallel organization that uses chinese in the same way that apache uses English?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 18:22, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Lei, Thanks. Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:17 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
>
> +1 for a formal community project in China.
>
> There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
>
> A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China.
>
> Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this.
>
> Cheers
> Lei
>
>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Niclas,
>>
>> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
>> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
>> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
>> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
>> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why
>> a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
>> etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
>> bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The
>> motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly
>> from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors,
>> who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>>
>> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
>> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
>> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
>> Wechat social group
>> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
>> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
>> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
>> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
>> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
>> generation contributors would not tolerate.
>>
>> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
>> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
>> infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
>> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
>> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
>> community/group can contribute.
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
>> China Community
>>
>> Ted,
>> 2 things...
>>
>> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>>
>> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
>> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
>> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
>> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>>
>> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
>> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
>> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a
>> company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
>> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>>
>> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
>> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
>> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
>> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>>
>> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
>> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
>> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
>> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
>> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
>> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>>
>> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
>> single big one.
>>
>> Keep up the positive work.
>>
>> Niclas
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>>>
>>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
>>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
>>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>>>
>>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
>>> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
>>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
>>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
>>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
>>> rg
>>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
>>> 08
>>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
>>> sX
>>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
>>> ka
>>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
>>> 00
>>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
>>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
>>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
>>> and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
>>> leading international
>> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
>> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
>> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
>>>
>>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
>>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
>>> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
>>> David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
>>> see more roadshow details here.
>>>
>>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
>>> ac
>>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
>>> 00
>>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
>>> ac
>>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
>>> 8a
>>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
>>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
>>> tt
>>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
>>> 06
>>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
>>> f1
>>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
>>> Wt
>>> EOXwqg%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
>>> tt
>>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
>>> 06
>>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
>>> f1
>>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
>>> X0
>>> GFRwPs%3d
>>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
>>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
>>> -
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
>>> he
>>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
>>> 57
>>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
>>> gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
>>> he
>>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
>>> f8
>>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
>>> AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
>>> home page
>>>
>>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
>>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
>>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
>>> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
>>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
>>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
>>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
>>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
>>> and the fans in
>> China following the Apache way.
>>>
>>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
>>> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
>>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted Liu
>>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
>>> of KAIYUANSHE
>>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Lei, Thanks. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:17 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
+1 for a formal community project in China.
There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China.
Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this.
Cheers
Lei
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Niclas,
>
> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why
> a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The
> motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly
> from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors,
> who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>
> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> Wechat social group
> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> generation contributors would not tolerate.
>
> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
> infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> community/group can contribute.
>
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
> Ted,
> 2 things...
>
> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>
> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>
> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a
> company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>
> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>
> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>
> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> single big one.
>
> Keep up the positive work.
>
> Niclas
>
> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >
> > Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> > Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >
> > Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> > However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
> > rg
> > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
> > 08
> > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
> > sX
> > asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> > ka
> > iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > 00
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
> > and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
> > leading international
> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> >
> > The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> > community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
> > David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
> > see more roadshow details here.
> >
> > - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> > ac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > 00
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> > ac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > 8a
> > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >
> > - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> > tt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> > 06
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
> > f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
> > Wt
> > EOXwqg%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> > tt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> > 06
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
> > f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
> > X0
> > GFRwPs%3d
> > >
> > - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > -
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> > he
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
> > 57
> > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
> > gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> > he
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
> > f8
> > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
> > AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > home page
> >
> > After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> > were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> > and the fans in
> China following the Apache way.
> >
> > Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Ted Liu
> > Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> > of KAIYUANSHE
> >
>
答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Hi Roman, As far as I know of, GSoC had been organized by CSDN, one of the largest IT online media in China and which is also one of the core founding members of KAIYUANSHE. But due to resource issue, it stopped doing so. I'm not sure what will be next to GSoC but can ask around.
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Roman Shaposhnik<ma...@shaposhnik.org>
发送时间: 2015/11/22 2:43
收件人: ComDev<ma...@community.apache.org>
抄送: niclas@hedhman.org<ma...@hedhman.org>
主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is
> a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache
> community in China.
Speaking of which: do you know what's the status of Google Summer
of Code in China? If this is something we can leverage, perhaps
a good approach would be to invest in bilingual mentors to
tap into that student potential.
> Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would
> be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on
> this.
If you're asking for a place -- ComDev is a perfect place for that. Please use
ComDev mailing lists, wiki, website, etc.
If you're asking for local events -- you'd have to be the one telling us what
makes sense and how can we help (send speakers, send stickers, etc., etc.).
Thanks,
Roman.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is
> a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache
> community in China.
Speaking of which: do you know what's the status of Google Summer
of Code in China? If this is something we can leverage, perhaps
a good approach would be to invest in bilingual mentors to
tap into that student potential.
> Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would
> be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on
> this.
If you're asking for a place -- ComDev is a perfect place for that. Please use
ComDev mailing lists, wiki, website, etc.
If you're asking for local events -- you'd have to be the one telling us what
makes sense and how can we help (send speakers, send stickers, etc., etc.).
Thanks,
Roman.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Ted,
My further comments are in-line. Your explanation is helping understand
what your goals are.
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more devs
> become contributors and committers to popular projects from the West and to
> help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both internationally
> and domestically.
This sounds great.
> It aims to be a bridge to overcome language barriers and culture
> differences so that more talents and projects can exchange. We certainly
> hope this bridge or group can use the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇,
> but not really a MUST if ASF doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a
> beast. In this case, we'd probably do it with another name not violating
> ASF trademark.
>
Well, I think that Apache *does* support this in several ways.
> Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may be ranging from big
> data, cloud computing, dev language/framework, community development
> (including events, meetups, localization, travel assistance...), etc.
>
One strong suggestion that I would have is that we start with smaller
pieces, not with everything all at once. Furthermore, the rate should be
determined by the number of people willing to help make it happen.
There are a variety of things that can be done.
- Herve suggests localized versions of descriptions of how Apache works.
There might be an additional descriptive list for questions about how
Apache works that is conducted in particular languages. This is very
similar to how the Open Office tries to support multiple languages. Policy
decisions would, of course, have to remain on the English mailing.
- A similar thing can happen with localized documentation and user mailing
lists for popular projects like Spark. For instance, there might be
user-cn@spark.apache.org. This would only work, of course, if there are
enough people to answer questions.
I think that these two sorts of efforts would cover most of what you
mention.
>
> I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation
> project and trust that you were also aware of the frustrations from both
> side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture difference).
Yes. I have previously run a development group in China as well. I was
very impressed in the Kylin project by how little the problems of language
seemed to be. Of course, I might not see the problems and there is always
the problem of silent failures from people who didn't show up and describe
their problems because of the English-only nature.
Whether I was a good mentor, I should not say. Ask Luke or another of hte
project members.
> Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache Storm
> project.
I was a mentor for Storm as well and have seen this very important
development first hand.
> Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even though there are
> more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the pains and
> misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
>
Absolutely. And I feel the same problems, but even more every time I look
at a web site in Chinese. Or Japanese. Or Indonesian. Or Hindi. Or
Tamil. Even in languages like German, Swedish or Spanish that I can read, I
am much slower than in English and it is very frustrating.
> Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much heavier
> weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc. over the
> Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization priority is
> obvious.
>
That sounds like a great start.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> My apologies if misunderstood from Ted Dunning's earlier comment: " I was
> a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for
> contribution. The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the
> use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible."
>
Hmm... I accidentally used a complex tense expression when I said that.
What I meant was that before we did the Kylin incubation, I worried that
English would be too big a barrier.
During incubation, the Chinese team members worked very hard to make
interaction easy and clear. I think my doubts well proved unfounded.
>
> I trust Luke and his team are very capable of English communication
> effectively. It is just that it is still minority of such elites in China
> dev community so far and that's the reason why Chinese document for Kylin
> is still needed.
>
I think that Luke may be correct that these barriers can be overcome more
easily than one would suspect. (Easier here means possible with
substantial effort is easier than nearly impossible)
Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Ted for your so nice words, we can't make it without ASF and mentors
here.
We learnt a lot during the incubating and daily work.
The Apache Roadshow is great event and Kaiyunshe did great job, would love
to see more contribution like localization and more events soon:)
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Luke, Apache Kylin is a hero project to me and many Chinese developers.
> In my humble opinion "Elite" is not just about efforts and achievements,
> but also capabilities, including project management and communication
> skills, esp. using English. Anyhow, choosing proper English wording to
> avoid misunderstanding remains a big challenge to me. But I learned one
> this time. :-)
>
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Luke Han<ma...@gmail.com>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:39
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 抄送: niclas@hedhman.org<ma...@hedhman.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> Hi Ted L,
> I don't think "elites" is good idea here:) we just work very hard to
> learn the Apache Way, to engage world wide community and develop our
> project for people really need. Many efforts have been spent in spare time
> from our committers with their passion and willing to contribution, and the
> same thing could be found from other community especially in Spark one,
> there are many people from here who are better than us:)
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > My apologies if misunderstood from Ted Dunning's earlier comment: " I was
> > a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for
> > contribution. The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the
> > use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible."
> >
> > I trust Luke and his team are very capable of English communication
> > effectively. It is just that it is still minority of such elites in China
> > dev community so far and that's the reason why Chinese document for Kylin
> > is still needed.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 10:08 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
> >
> > >>I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> > >>incubation
> > project and trust that you were also >>aware of the frustrations from
> both
> > side due to language issues
> >
> > I don't this is true...Language is a little bit challenge as Ted Dunning
> > and I have discussed in London and San Jose many times, yes, the Chinese
> > developers are not native English speakers but what we have demonstrated
> in
> > Kylin community is both sides are happy to collaboration together,
> language
> > is not a problem.
> >
> > People intend to discuss with their native language which will bring
> > problem to form "official localized community" eventfully, they will try
> to
> > stay within local community. We should engage and bring local developers,
> > projects to ASF, not only Chinese and all of the world.
> >
> > There's WeChat group for Kylin but every time people raised question
> there
> > we will re-direct them to mailing list, to keep only one place to have
> such
> > discussion, even we have to help to translate to English. And the result
> is
> > good (IMO), we engaged many committers from local who are participating
> in
> > the community very well, in English.
> >
> > Localization is one good idea, which also should be counted as
> > contribution with relative project, we could saw there are some Chinese
> > docs of HBase, most of Kylin's docs now have both English and Chinese...
> >
> >
> > Best Regards!
> > ---------------------
> >
> > Luke Han
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> > > "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more
> > > devs become contributors and committers to popular projects from the
> > > West and to help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both
> > > internationally and domestically. It aims to be a bridge to overcome
> > > language barriers and culture differences so that more talents and
> > > projects can exchange. We certainly hope this bridge or group can use
> > > the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇, but not really a MUST if ASF
> > > doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a beast. In this case, we'd
> > > probably do it with another name not violating ASF trademark.
> > >
> > > Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> > > experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> > > contributors, etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may
> > > be ranging from big data, cloud computing, dev language/framework,
> > > community development (including events, meetups, localization, travel
> > assistance...), etc.
> > >
> > > I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> > > incubation project and trust that you were also aware of the
> > > frustrations from both side due to language issues (and maybe
> > not-so-obvious culture difference).
> > > Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache
> > > Storm project. Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even
> > > though there are more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the
> > > pains and misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
> > >
> > > Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much
> > > heavier weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc.
> > > over the Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization
> > > priority is obvious.
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:33 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is
> > > enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric
> > > mailing lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up
> > > Chinese language open source projects as well.
> > >
> > > I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache".
> > > But I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough
> > English.
> > >
> > > It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as
> > > > possible
> > > and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the
> > > volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and
> > > motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s
> trademark/banner.
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > > Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If
> > > they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on
> > it?
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > > +1 for a formal community project in China.
> > > >
> > > > There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers
> > > > in
> > > China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
> > > >
> > > > A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very
> > > active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very
> > > difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in
> English.
> > > There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i
> > > think there is a great potential to increase the number of
> > > contributors from Apache community in China.
> > > >
> > > > Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> > > together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It
> > > would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up
> > > to work on this.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Lei
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Niclas,
> > > >>
> > > >> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > >> formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > >> forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > >> grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > >> Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > >> directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > > >> members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > > >> voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese
> > > >> talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and
> > > >> enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > > >> experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > > >> people will trust, instead of any individual new to
> > > ASF.
> > > >>
> > > >> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > >> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > >> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > >> Wechat social group
> > > >> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > > >> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > > >> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > > >> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions.
> > > >> The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > > >> generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > >>
> > > >> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > >> sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are
> > > >> still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good
> > > >> codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real
> > > >> blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed
> > > >> China community/group can contribute.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Ted
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > >> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > >> To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > >> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > >> China Community
> > > >>
> > > >> Ted,
> > > >> 2 things...
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > >>
> > > >> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> organization.
> > > >> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> > > >> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > > >> little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or
> > they don't.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > > >> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > > >> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it
> > > >> like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I
> > > >> hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your
> > > >> enthusiasm slightly
> > > differently.
> > > >>
> > > >> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but
> > > >> I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > > >> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we
> > > >> are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge
> > this gap.
> > > >>
> > > >> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > >> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > > >> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > > >> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > > >> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And
> > > >> I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > > >>
> > > >> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > > >> single big one.
> > > >>
> > > >> Keep up the positive work.
> > > >>
> > > >> Niclas
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > > >>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be
> > possible?
> > > >>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > >>> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > >>> public
> > > services.
> > > >>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > >>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > >>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe
> > > >>> .o
> > > >>> rg
> > > >>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6e
> > > >>> f4
> > > >>> 08
> > > >>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2i
> > > >>> FC
> > > >>> sX
> > > >>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > >>>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> > > >>> ka
> > > >>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > > >>> 23
> > > >>> 00
> > > >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > >>> a= KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > > >>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > > >>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> > > >>> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> > > >>> between the leading international
> > > >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> > > >> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> > > >> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > > roadshow in China.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > > >>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> > > >>> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> > > >>> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > > >>> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> > > >>> ap
> > > >>> ac
> > > >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > > >>> 23
> > > >>> 00
> > > >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > >>> a=
> > > >>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> > > >>> ap
> > > >>> ac
> > > >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa
> > > >>> 4b
> > > >>> 8a
> > > >>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > >>> a= BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > >>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> > > >>> wi
> > > >>> tt
> > > >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> > > >>> 40
> > > >>> 06
> > > >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf
> > > >>> 86
> > > >>> f1
> > > >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU3
> > > >>> 7C
> > > >>> Wt
> > > >>> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> > > >>> wi
> > > >>> tt
> > > >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> > > >>> 40
> > > >>> 06
> > > >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf
> > > >>> 86
> > > >>> f1
> > > >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CW
> > > >>> hd
> > > >>> X0
> > > >>> GFRwPs%3d
> > > >>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > > >>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > >>> -
> > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> > > >>> ac
> > > >>> he
> > > >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23008
> > > >>> 44
> > > >>> 57
> > > >>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1
> > > >>> M4 gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> > > >>> ac
> > > >>> he
> > > >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a3
> > > >>> 14
> > > >>> f8
> > > >>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1D
> > > >>> dE AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > >>> home page
> > > >>>
> > > >>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > > >>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > > >>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time
> > > >>> or were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > > >>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > > >>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > > >>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > > >>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between
> > > >>> ASF and the fans in
> > > >> China following the Apache way.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > > >>> in China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > >>> would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Ted Liu
> > > >>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > >>> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Hi Luke, Apache Kylin is a hero project to me and many Chinese developers. In my humble opinion "Elite" is not just about efforts and achievements, but also capabilities, including project management and communication skills, esp. using English. Anyhow, choosing proper English wording to avoid misunderstanding remains a big challenge to me. But I learned one this time. :-)
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Luke Han<ma...@gmail.com>
发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:39
收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
抄送: niclas@hedhman.org<ma...@hedhman.org>
主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Hi Ted L,
I don't think "elites" is good idea here:) we just work very hard to
learn the Apache Way, to engage world wide community and develop our
project for people really need. Many efforts have been spent in spare time
from our committers with their passion and willing to contribution, and the
same thing could be found from other community especially in Spark one,
there are many people from here who are better than us:)
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> My apologies if misunderstood from Ted Dunning's earlier comment: " I was
> a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for
> contribution. The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the
> use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible."
>
> I trust Luke and his team are very capable of English communication
> effectively. It is just that it is still minority of such elites in China
> dev community so far and that's the reason why Chinese document for Kylin
> is still needed.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 10:08 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> >>I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> >>incubation
> project and trust that you were also >>aware of the frustrations from both
> side due to language issues
>
> I don't this is true...Language is a little bit challenge as Ted Dunning
> and I have discussed in London and San Jose many times, yes, the Chinese
> developers are not native English speakers but what we have demonstrated in
> Kylin community is both sides are happy to collaboration together, language
> is not a problem.
>
> People intend to discuss with their native language which will bring
> problem to form "official localized community" eventfully, they will try to
> stay within local community. We should engage and bring local developers,
> projects to ASF, not only Chinese and all of the world.
>
> There's WeChat group for Kylin but every time people raised question there
> we will re-direct them to mailing list, to keep only one place to have such
> discussion, even we have to help to translate to English. And the result is
> good (IMO), we engaged many committers from local who are participating in
> the community very well, in English.
>
> Localization is one good idea, which also should be counted as
> contribution with relative project, we could saw there are some Chinese
> docs of HBase, most of Kylin's docs now have both English and Chinese...
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> > "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more
> > devs become contributors and committers to popular projects from the
> > West and to help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both
> > internationally and domestically. It aims to be a bridge to overcome
> > language barriers and culture differences so that more talents and
> > projects can exchange. We certainly hope this bridge or group can use
> > the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇, but not really a MUST if ASF
> > doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a beast. In this case, we'd
> > probably do it with another name not violating ASF trademark.
> >
> > Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> > experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> > contributors, etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may
> > be ranging from big data, cloud computing, dev language/framework,
> > community development (including events, meetups, localization, travel
> assistance...), etc.
> >
> > I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> > incubation project and trust that you were also aware of the
> > frustrations from both side due to language issues (and maybe
> not-so-obvious culture difference).
> > Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache
> > Storm project. Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even
> > though there are more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the
> > pains and misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
> >
> > Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much
> > heavier weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc.
> > over the Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization
> > priority is obvious.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:33 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is
> > enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric
> > mailing lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up
> > Chinese language open source projects as well.
> >
> > I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache".
> > But I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough
> English.
> >
> > It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as
> > > possible
> > and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the
> > volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and
> > motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If
> > they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on
> it?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > +1 for a formal community project in China.
> > >
> > > There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers
> > > in
> > China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
> > >
> > > A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very
> > active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very
> > difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English.
> > There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i
> > think there is a great potential to increase the number of
> > contributors from Apache community in China.
> > >
> > > Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> > together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It
> > would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up
> > to work on this.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Lei
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Niclas,
> > >>
> > >> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > >> formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > >> forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > >> grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > >> Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > >> directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > >> members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > >> voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese
> > >> talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and
> > >> enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > >> experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > >> people will trust, instead of any individual new to
> > ASF.
> > >>
> > >> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > >> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > >> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > >> Wechat social group
> > >> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > >> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > >> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > >> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions.
> > >> The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > >> generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > >>
> > >> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > >> sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are
> > >> still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good
> > >> codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real
> > >> blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed
> > >> China community/group can contribute.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ted
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > >> To: dev@community.apache.org
> > >> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > >> China Community
> > >>
> > >> Ted,
> > >> 2 things...
> > >>
> > >> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > >>
> > >> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> > >> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> > >> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > >> little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or
> they don't.
> > >>
> > >> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > >> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > >> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it
> > >> like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I
> > >> hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your
> > >> enthusiasm slightly
> > differently.
> > >>
> > >> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but
> > >> I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > >> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we
> > >> are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge
> this gap.
> > >>
> > >> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > >> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > >> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > >> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > >> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And
> > >> I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > >>
> > >> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > >> single big one.
> > >>
> > >> Keep up the positive work.
> > >>
> > >> Niclas
> > >>
> > >>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > >>>
> > >>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > >>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be
> possible?
> > >>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > >>>
> > >>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > >>> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > >>> public
> > services.
> > >>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > >>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > >>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe
> > >>> .o
> > >>> rg
> > >>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6e
> > >>> f4
> > >>> 08
> > >>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2i
> > >>> FC
> > >>> sX
> > >>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> > >>> ka
> > >>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > >>> 23
> > >>> 00
> > >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >>> a= KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > >>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > >>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> > >>> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> > >>> between the leading international
> > >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> > >> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> > >> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > roadshow in China.
> > >>>
> > >>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > >>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> > >>> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> > >>> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > >>> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > >>>
> > >>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> > >>> ap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > >>> 23
> > >>> 00
> > >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >>> a=
> > >>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> > >>> ap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa
> > >>> 4b
> > >>> 8a
> > >>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >>> a= BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> > >>> wi
> > >>> tt
> > >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> > >>> 40
> > >>> 06
> > >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf
> > >>> 86
> > >>> f1
> > >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU3
> > >>> 7C
> > >>> Wt
> > >>> EOXwqg%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> > >>> wi
> > >>> tt
> > >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> > >>> 40
> > >>> 06
> > >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf
> > >>> 86
> > >>> f1
> > >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CW
> > >>> hd
> > >>> X0
> > >>> GFRwPs%3d
> > >>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > >>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > >>> -
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he
> > >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23008
> > >>> 44
> > >>> 57
> > >>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1
> > >>> M4 gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he
> > >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a3
> > >>> 14
> > >>> f8
> > >>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1D
> > >>> dE AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > >>> home page
> > >>>
> > >>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > >>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > >>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time
> > >>> or were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > >>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > >>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > >>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > >>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between
> > >>> ASF and the fans in
> > >> China following the Apache way.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > >>> in China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > >>> would be greatly appreciated.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Ted Liu
> > >>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > >>> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > >>
> >
>
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ted L,
I don't think "elites" is good idea here:) we just work very hard to
learn the Apache Way, to engage world wide community and develop our
project for people really need. Many efforts have been spent in spare time
from our committers with their passion and willing to contribution, and the
same thing could be found from other community especially in Spark one,
there are many people from here who are better than us:)
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> My apologies if misunderstood from Ted Dunning's earlier comment: " I was
> a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for
> contribution. The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the
> use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible."
>
> I trust Luke and his team are very capable of English communication
> effectively. It is just that it is still minority of such elites in China
> dev community so far and that's the reason why Chinese document for Kylin
> is still needed.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 10:08 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> >>I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> >>incubation
> project and trust that you were also >>aware of the frustrations from both
> side due to language issues
>
> I don't this is true...Language is a little bit challenge as Ted Dunning
> and I have discussed in London and San Jose many times, yes, the Chinese
> developers are not native English speakers but what we have demonstrated in
> Kylin community is both sides are happy to collaboration together, language
> is not a problem.
>
> People intend to discuss with their native language which will bring
> problem to form "official localized community" eventfully, they will try to
> stay within local community. We should engage and bring local developers,
> projects to ASF, not only Chinese and all of the world.
>
> There's WeChat group for Kylin but every time people raised question there
> we will re-direct them to mailing list, to keep only one place to have such
> discussion, even we have to help to translate to English. And the result is
> good (IMO), we engaged many committers from local who are participating in
> the community very well, in English.
>
> Localization is one good idea, which also should be counted as
> contribution with relative project, we could saw there are some Chinese
> docs of HBase, most of Kylin's docs now have both English and Chinese...
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> > "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more
> > devs become contributors and committers to popular projects from the
> > West and to help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both
> > internationally and domestically. It aims to be a bridge to overcome
> > language barriers and culture differences so that more talents and
> > projects can exchange. We certainly hope this bridge or group can use
> > the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇, but not really a MUST if ASF
> > doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a beast. In this case, we'd
> > probably do it with another name not violating ASF trademark.
> >
> > Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> > experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> > contributors, etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may
> > be ranging from big data, cloud computing, dev language/framework,
> > community development (including events, meetups, localization, travel
> assistance...), etc.
> >
> > I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> > incubation project and trust that you were also aware of the
> > frustrations from both side due to language issues (and maybe
> not-so-obvious culture difference).
> > Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache
> > Storm project. Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even
> > though there are more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the
> > pains and misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
> >
> > Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much
> > heavier weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc.
> > over the Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization
> > priority is obvious.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:33 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is
> > enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric
> > mailing lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up
> > Chinese language open source projects as well.
> >
> > I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache".
> > But I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough
> English.
> >
> > It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as
> > > possible
> > and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the
> > volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and
> > motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If
> > they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on
> it?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > +1 for a formal community project in China.
> > >
> > > There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers
> > > in
> > China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
> > >
> > > A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very
> > active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very
> > difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English.
> > There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i
> > think there is a great potential to increase the number of
> > contributors from Apache community in China.
> > >
> > > Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> > together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It
> > would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up
> > to work on this.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Lei
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Niclas,
> > >>
> > >> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > >> formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > >> forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > >> grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > >> Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > >> directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > >> members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > >> voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese
> > >> talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and
> > >> enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > >> experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > >> people will trust, instead of any individual new to
> > ASF.
> > >>
> > >> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > >> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > >> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > >> Wechat social group
> > >> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > >> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > >> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > >> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions.
> > >> The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > >> generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > >>
> > >> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > >> sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are
> > >> still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good
> > >> codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real
> > >> blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed
> > >> China community/group can contribute.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ted
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > >> To: dev@community.apache.org
> > >> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > >> China Community
> > >>
> > >> Ted,
> > >> 2 things...
> > >>
> > >> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > >>
> > >> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> > >> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> > >> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > >> little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or
> they don't.
> > >>
> > >> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > >> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > >> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it
> > >> like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I
> > >> hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your
> > >> enthusiasm slightly
> > differently.
> > >>
> > >> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but
> > >> I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > >> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we
> > >> are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge
> this gap.
> > >>
> > >> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > >> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > >> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > >> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > >> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And
> > >> I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > >>
> > >> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > >> single big one.
> > >>
> > >> Keep up the positive work.
> > >>
> > >> Niclas
> > >>
> > >>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > >>>
> > >>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > >>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be
> possible?
> > >>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > >>>
> > >>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > >>> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > >>> public
> > services.
> > >>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > >>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > >>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe
> > >>> .o
> > >>> rg
> > >>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6e
> > >>> f4
> > >>> 08
> > >>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2i
> > >>> FC
> > >>> sX
> > >>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> > >>> ka
> > >>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > >>> 23
> > >>> 00
> > >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >>> a= KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > >>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > >>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> > >>> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> > >>> between the leading international
> > >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> > >> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> > >> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > roadshow in China.
> > >>>
> > >>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > >>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> > >>> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> > >>> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > >>> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > >>>
> > >>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> > >>> ap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > >>> 23
> > >>> 00
> > >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >>> a=
> > >>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> > >>> ap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa
> > >>> 4b
> > >>> 8a
> > >>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >>> a= BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> > >>> wi
> > >>> tt
> > >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> > >>> 40
> > >>> 06
> > >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf
> > >>> 86
> > >>> f1
> > >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU3
> > >>> 7C
> > >>> Wt
> > >>> EOXwqg%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> > >>> wi
> > >>> tt
> > >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> > >>> 40
> > >>> 06
> > >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf
> > >>> 86
> > >>> f1
> > >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CW
> > >>> hd
> > >>> X0
> > >>> GFRwPs%3d
> > >>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > >>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > >>> -
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he
> > >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23008
> > >>> 44
> > >>> 57
> > >>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1
> > >>> M4 gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> > >>> ac
> > >>> he
> > >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a3
> > >>> 14
> > >>> f8
> > >>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1D
> > >>> dE AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > >>> home page
> > >>>
> > >>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > >>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > >>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time
> > >>> or were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > >>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > >>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > >>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > >>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between
> > >>> ASF and the fans in
> > >> China following the Apache way.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > >>> in China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > >>> would be greatly appreciated.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Ted Liu
> > >>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > >>> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > >>
> >
>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
My apologies if misunderstood from Ted Dunning's earlier comment: " I was a mentor on kylin and worried about English being a problem for contribution. The real problem is that apache is partially defined by the use of English to allow as wide a participation as possible."
I trust Luke and his team are very capable of English communication effectively. It is just that it is still minority of such elites in China dev community so far and that's the reason why Chinese document for Kylin is still needed.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 10:08 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
>>I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
>>incubation
project and trust that you were also >>aware of the frustrations from both side due to language issues
I don't this is true...Language is a little bit challenge as Ted Dunning and I have discussed in London and San Jose many times, yes, the Chinese developers are not native English speakers but what we have demonstrated in Kylin community is both sides are happy to collaboration together, language is not a problem.
People intend to discuss with their native language which will bring problem to form "official localized community" eventfully, they will try to stay within local community. We should engage and bring local developers, projects to ASF, not only Chinese and all of the world.
There's WeChat group for Kylin but every time people raised question there we will re-direct them to mailing list, to keep only one place to have such discussion, even we have to help to translate to English. And the result is good (IMO), we engaged many committers from local who are participating in the community very well, in English.
Localization is one good idea, which also should be counted as contribution with relative project, we could saw there are some Chinese docs of HBase, most of Kylin's docs now have both English and Chinese...
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more
> devs become contributors and committers to popular projects from the
> West and to help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both
> internationally and domestically. It aims to be a bridge to overcome
> language barriers and culture differences so that more talents and
> projects can exchange. We certainly hope this bridge or group can use
> the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇, but not really a MUST if ASF
> doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a beast. In this case, we'd
> probably do it with another name not violating ASF trademark.
>
> Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> contributors, etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may
> be ranging from big data, cloud computing, dev language/framework,
> community development (including events, meetups, localization, travel assistance...), etc.
>
> I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin
> incubation project and trust that you were also aware of the
> frustrations from both side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture difference).
> Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache
> Storm project. Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even
> though there are more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the
> pains and misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
>
> Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much
> heavier weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc.
> over the Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization
> priority is obvious.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:33 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
>
> Ted
>
> I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is
> enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric
> mailing lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up
> Chinese language open source projects as well.
>
> I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache".
> But I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough English.
>
> It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as
> > possible
> and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the
> volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and
> motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If
> they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > +1 for a formal community project in China.
> >
> > There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers
> > in
> China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
> >
> > A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very
> active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very
> difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English.
> There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i
> think there is a great potential to increase the number of
> contributors from Apache community in China.
> >
> > Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It
> would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up
> to work on this.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lei
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Niclas,
> >>
> >> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> >> formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> >> forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> >> grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> >> Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> >> directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> >> members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> >> voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese
> >> talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and
> >> enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> >> experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> >> people will trust, instead of any individual new to
> ASF.
> >>
> >> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> >> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> >> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> >> Wechat social group
> >> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> >> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> >> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> >> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions.
> >> The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> >> generation contributors would not tolerate.
> >>
> >> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> >> sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are
> >> still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good
> >> codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real
> >> blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed
> >> China community/group can contribute.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> >> To: dev@community.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> >> China Community
> >>
> >> Ted,
> >> 2 things...
> >>
> >> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> >>
> >> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> >> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> >> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> >> little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
> >>
> >> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> >> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> >> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it
> >> like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I
> >> hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your
> >> enthusiasm slightly
> differently.
> >>
> >> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but
> >> I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> >> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we
> >> are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
> >>
> >> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> >> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> >> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> >> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> >> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And
> >> I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> contribution to ASF and other projects.
> >>
> >> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> >> single big one.
> >>
> >> Keep up the positive work.
> >>
> >> Niclas
> >>
> >>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >>>
> >>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> >>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> >>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >>>
> >>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> >>> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> >>> public
> services.
> >>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> >>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> >>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe
> >>> .o
> >>> rg
> >>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6e
> >>> f4
> >>> 08
> >>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2i
> >>> FC
> >>> sX
> >>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> >>> ka
> >>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> >>> 23
> >>> 00
> >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> >>> a= KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> >>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> >>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> >>> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> >>> between the leading international
> >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> >> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> >> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> roadshow in China.
> >>>
> >>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> >>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> >>> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> >>> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> >>> Please see more roadshow details here.
> >>>
> >>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> >>> ap
> >>> ac
> >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> >>> 23
> >>> 00
> >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> >>> a=
> >>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.
> >>> ap
> >>> ac
> >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa
> >>> 4b
> >>> 8a
> >>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> >>> a= BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> >>> wi
> >>> tt
> >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >>> 40
> >>> 06
> >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf
> >>> 86
> >>> f1
> >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU3
> >>> 7C
> >>> Wt
> >>> EOXwqg%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ft
> >>> wi
> >>> tt
> >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >>> 40
> >>> 06
> >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf
> >>> 86
> >>> f1
> >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CW
> >>> hd
> >>> X0
> >>> GFRwPs%3d
> >>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> >>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> >>> -
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> >>> ac
> >>> he
> >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23008
> >>> 44
> >>> 57
> >>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1
> >>> M4 gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fap
> >>> ac
> >>> he
> >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a3
> >>> 14
> >>> f8
> >>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1D
> >>> dE AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> >>> home page
> >>>
> >>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> >>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> >>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time
> >>> or were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> >>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> >>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> >>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> >>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between
> >>> ASF and the fans in
> >> China following the Apache way.
> >>>
> >>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans
> >>> in China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> >>> would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ted Liu
> >>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> >>> member of KAIYUANSHE
> >>
>
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>.
>>I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation
project and trust that you were also >>aware of the frustrations from both
side due to language issues
I don't this is true...Language is a little bit challenge as Ted Dunning
and I have discussed in London and San Jose many times, yes, the Chinese
developers are not native English speakers but what we have demonstrated in
Kylin community is both sides are happy to collaboration together, language
is not a problem.
People intend to discuss with their native language which will bring
problem to form "official localized community" eventfully, they will try to
stay within local community. We should engage and bring local developers,
projects to ASF, not only Chinese and all of the world.
There's WeChat group for Kylin but every time people raised question there
we will re-direct them to mailing list, to keep only one place to have such
discussion, even we have to help to translate to English. And the result is
good (IMO), we engaged many committers from local who are participating in
the community very well, in English.
Localization is one good idea, which also should be counted as contribution
with relative project, we could saw there are some Chinese docs of HBase,
most of Kylin's docs now have both English and Chinese...
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more devs
> become contributors and committers to popular projects from the West and to
> help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both internationally
> and domestically. It aims to be a bridge to overcome language barriers and
> culture differences so that more talents and projects can exchange. We
> certainly hope this bridge or group can use the Apache name, at least in
> Chinese 阿帕奇, but not really a MUST if ASF doesn’t support the idea or treat
> it as a beast. In this case, we'd probably do it with another name not
> violating ASF trademark.
>
> Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may be ranging from big
> data, cloud computing, dev language/framework, community development
> (including events, meetups, localization, travel assistance...), etc.
>
> I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation
> project and trust that you were also aware of the frustrations from both
> side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture difference).
> Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache Storm
> project. Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even though
> there are more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the pains and
> misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
>
> Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much heavier
> weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc. over the
> Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization priority is
> obvious.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:33 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
>
> Ted
>
> I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is
> enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric mailing
> lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up Chinese
> language open source projects as well.
>
> I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache". But
> I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough English.
>
> It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as possible
> and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the
> volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and
> motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If
> they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > +1 for a formal community project in China.
> >
> > There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in
> China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
> >
> > A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very
> active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very
> difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English.
> There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think
> there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from
> Apache community in China.
> >
> > Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
> together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would
> be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on
> this.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lei
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Niclas,
> >>
> >> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
> >> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
> >> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
> >> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
> >> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason
> >> why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> >> contributors, etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the
> >> status quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
> >> ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local community/group will
> >> be mainly from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> >> contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to
> ASF.
> >>
> >> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> >> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> >> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> >> Wechat social group
> >> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> >> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> >> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> >> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> >> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> >> generation contributors would not tolerate.
> >>
> >> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> >> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
> >> at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> >> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> >> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> >> community/group can contribute.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> >> To: dev@community.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> >> China Community
> >>
> >> Ted,
> >> 2 things...
> >>
> >> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> >>
> >> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> >> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> >> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> >> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
> >>
> >> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> >> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> >> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
> >> a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
> >> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly
> differently.
> >>
> >> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> >> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> >> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> >> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
> >>
> >> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> >> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> >> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> >> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> >> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> >> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> contribution to ASF and other projects.
> >>
> >> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> >> single big one.
> >>
> >> Keep up the positive work.
> >>
> >> Niclas
> >>
> >>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >>>
> >>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> >>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> >>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >>>
> >>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> >>> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public
> services.
> >>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> >>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> >>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
> >>> rg
> >>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
> >>> 08
> >>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
> >>> sX
> >>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> >>> ka
> >>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> >>> 00
> >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> >>> KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> >>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> >>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
> >>> and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
> >>> leading international
> >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> >> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> >> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> roadshow in China.
> >>>
> >>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> >>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> >>> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
> >>> David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
> >>> see more roadshow details here.
> >>>
> >>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> >>> ac
> >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> >>> 00
> >>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> >>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> >>> ac
> >>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> >>> 8a
> >>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> >>> BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> >>> tt
> >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> >>> 06
> >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
> >>> f1
> >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
> >>> Wt
> >>> EOXwqg%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> >>> tt
> >>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> >>> 06
> >>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
> >>> f1
> >>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
> >>> X0
> >>> GFRwPs%3d
> >>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> >>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> >>> -
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> >>> he
> >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
> >>> 57
> >>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
> >>> gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> >>> he
> >>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
> >>> f8
> >>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
> >>> AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> >>> home page
> >>>
> >>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> >>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> >>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> >>> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> >>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> >>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> >>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> >>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> >>> and the fans in
> >> China following the Apache way.
> >>>
> >>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> >>> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> >>> would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ted Liu
> >>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> >>> of KAIYUANSHE
> >>
>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more devs become contributors and committers to popular projects from the West and to help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both internationally and domestically. It aims to be a bridge to overcome language barriers and culture differences so that more talents and projects can exchange. We certainly hope this bridge or group can use the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇, but not really a MUST if ASF doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a beast. In this case, we'd probably do it with another name not violating ASF trademark.
Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may be ranging from big data, cloud computing, dev language/framework, community development (including events, meetups, localization, travel assistance...), etc.
I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation project and trust that you were also aware of the frustrations from both side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture difference). Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache Storm project. Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even though there are more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the pains and misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.
Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much heavier weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc. over the Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization priority is obvious.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:33 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Ted
I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric mailing lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up Chinese language open source projects as well.
I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache". But I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough English.
It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as possible and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
> Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
> +1 for a formal community project in China.
>
> There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
>
> A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China.
>
> Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this.
>
> Cheers
> Lei
>
>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Niclas,
>>
>> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
>> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
>> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
>> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
>> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason
>> why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
>> contributors, etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the
>> status quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
>> ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local community/group will
>> be mainly from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
>> contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>>
>> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
>> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
>> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
>> Wechat social group
>> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
>> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
>> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
>> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
>> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
>> generation contributors would not tolerate.
>>
>> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
>> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
>> at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
>> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
>> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
>> community/group can contribute.
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
>> China Community
>>
>> Ted,
>> 2 things...
>>
>> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>>
>> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
>> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
>> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
>> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>>
>> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
>> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
>> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
>> a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
>> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>>
>> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
>> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
>> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
>> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>>
>> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
>> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
>> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
>> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
>> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
>> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>>
>> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
>> single big one.
>>
>> Keep up the positive work.
>>
>> Niclas
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>>>
>>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
>>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
>>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>>>
>>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
>>> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
>>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
>>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
>>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
>>> rg
>>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
>>> 08
>>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
>>> sX
>>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
>>> ka
>>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
>>> 00
>>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
>>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
>>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
>>> and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
>>> leading international
>> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
>> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
>> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
>>>
>>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
>>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
>>> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
>>> David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
>>> see more roadshow details here.
>>>
>>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
>>> ac
>>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
>>> 00
>>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
>>> ac
>>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
>>> 8a
>>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
>>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
>>> tt
>>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
>>> 06
>>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
>>> f1
>>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
>>> Wt
>>> EOXwqg%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
>>> tt
>>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
>>> 06
>>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
>>> f1
>>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
>>> X0
>>> GFRwPs%3d
>>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
>>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
>>> -
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
>>> he
>>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
>>> 57
>>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
>>> gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
>>> he
>>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
>>> f8
>>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
>>> AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
>>> home page
>>>
>>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
>>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
>>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
>>> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
>>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
>>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
>>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
>>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
>>> and the fans in
>> China following the Apache way.
>>>
>>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
>>> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
>>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted Liu
>>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
>>> of KAIYUANSHE
>>
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Ted
I think apache can help you with some needs, but not all. Apache is enthusiastic about helping people interact with our English-centric mailing lists. Apache would likely help you figure out how to set up Chinese language open source projects as well.
I don't understand if that is what you want. You say "within apache". But I also thought you wanted to help developers who don't have enough English.
It sounds like you need more than one answer to more than one question.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 19:24, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as possible and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
>
> Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
>
> +1 for a formal community project in China.
>
> There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
>
> A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China.
>
> Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this.
>
> Cheers
> Lei
>
>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Niclas,
>>
>> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
>> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
>> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
>> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
>> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why
>> a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
>> etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
>> bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The
>> motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly
>> from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors,
>> who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>>
>> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
>> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
>> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
>> Wechat social group
>> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
>> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
>> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
>> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
>> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
>> generation contributors would not tolerate.
>>
>> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
>> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
>> infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
>> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
>> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
>> community/group can contribute.
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
>> China Community
>>
>> Ted,
>> 2 things...
>>
>> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>>
>> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
>> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
>> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
>> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>>
>> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
>> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
>> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a
>> company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
>> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>>
>> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
>> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
>> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
>> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>>
>> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
>> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
>> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
>> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
>> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
>> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>>
>> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
>> single big one.
>>
>> Keep up the positive work.
>>
>> Niclas
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>>>
>>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
>>> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
>>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>>>
>>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
>>> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
>>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
>>> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
>>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
>>> rg
>>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
>>> 08
>>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
>>> sX
>>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
>>> ka
>>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
>>> 00
>>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
>>> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
>>> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
>>> and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
>>> leading international
>> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
>> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
>> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
>>>
>>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
>>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
>>> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
>>> David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
>>> see more roadshow details here.
>>>
>>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
>>> ac
>>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
>>> 00
>>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
>>> ac
>>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
>>> 8a
>>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
>>> BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
>>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
>>> tt
>>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
>>> 06
>>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
>>> f1
>>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
>>> Wt
>>> EOXwqg%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
>>> tt
>>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
>>> 06
>>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
>>> f1
>>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
>>> X0
>>> GFRwPs%3d
>>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
>>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
>>> -
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
>>> he
>>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
>>> 57
>>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
>>> gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
>>> he
>>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
>>> f8
>>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
>>> AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
>>> home page
>>>
>>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
>>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
>>> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
>>> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
>>> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
>>> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
>>> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
>>> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
>>> and the fans in
>> China following the Apache way.
>>>
>>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
>>> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
>>> would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ted Liu
>>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
>>> of KAIYUANSHE
>>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Our initiative wants/desires to be inside of ASF as close as possible and to avoid any trademark violation. If it is a no-go, I guess the volunteer group here will still do the right things to help enable and motivate developers and projects, with or without ASF’s trademark/banner.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 6:46 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
+1 for a formal community project in China.
There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China.
Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this.
Cheers
Lei
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Niclas,
>
> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why
> a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The
> motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly
> from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors,
> who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>
> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> Wechat social group
> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> generation contributors would not tolerate.
>
> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
> infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> community/group can contribute.
>
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
> Ted,
> 2 things...
>
> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>
> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>
> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a
> company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>
> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>
> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>
> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> single big one.
>
> Keep up the positive work.
>
> Niclas
>
> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >
> > Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> > Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >
> > Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> > However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
> > rg
> > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
> > 08
> > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
> > sX
> > asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> > ka
> > iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > 00
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
> > and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
> > leading international
> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> >
> > The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> > community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
> > David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
> > see more roadshow details here.
> >
> > - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> > ac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > 00
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> > ac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > 8a
> > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >
> > - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> > tt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> > 06
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
> > f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
> > Wt
> > EOXwqg%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> > tt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> > 06
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
> > f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
> > X0
> > GFRwPs%3d
> > >
> > - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > -
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> > he
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
> > 57
> > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
> > gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> > he
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
> > f8
> > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
> > AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > home page
> >
> > After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> > were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> > and the fans in
> China following the Apache way.
> >
> > Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Ted Liu
> > Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> > of KAIYUANSHE
> >
>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Why do those pioneers need a place outside of the ASF to do that? If they do need a place outside the ASF why does it need an Apache logo on it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lei Chang [mailto:chang.lei.cn@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:17 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
+1 for a formal community project in China.
There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache community in China.
Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on this.
Cheers
Lei
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Niclas,
>
> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
> at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
> community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
> action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
> care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why
> a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The
> motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly
> from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors,
> who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>
> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> Wechat social group
> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> generation contributors would not tolerate.
>
> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
> infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> community/group can contribute.
>
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
> Ted,
> 2 things...
>
> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>
> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> But the ASF and many other open source projects are not
> command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>
> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a
> company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that
> you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>
> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>
> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>
> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> single big one.
>
> Keep up the positive work.
>
> Niclas
>
> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >
> > Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> > Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >
> > Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> > However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.o
> > rg
> > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef4
> > 08
> > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFC
> > sX
> > asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.
> > ka
> > iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > 00
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community
> > and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the
> > leading international
> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> >
> > The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> > community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter,
> > David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please
> > see more roadshow details here.
> >
> > - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> > ac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > 00
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.ap
> > ac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > 8a
> > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >
> > - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> > tt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> > 06
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86
> > f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37C
> > Wt
> > EOXwqg%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwi
> > tt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40
> > 06
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86
> > f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhd
> > X0
> > GFRwPs%3d
> > >
> > - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > -
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> > he
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
> > 57
> > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4
> > gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapac
> > he
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314
> > f8
> > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdE
> > AF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > home page
> >
> > After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> > were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> > and the fans in
> China following the Apache way.
> >
> > Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Ted Liu
> > Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> > of KAIYUANSHE
> >
>
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com>.
+1 for a formal community project in China.
There are some experiences I can share when some apache committers in China
are developing the community for Apache HAWQ (in incubation).
A wechat group was created, and there are many people who are very active
at ask questions and contributing ideas. This is a kind of very difficult
to happen with some Chinese native guys discussing in English. There are
about 5 million college graduates each year in China, and i think there is
a great potential to increase the number of contributors from Apache
community in China.
Developing an Apache community in China needs some pioneers to get
together, discuss, directs and organize the meetups, conferences. It would
be very helpful to have a formal Apache community project set up to work on
this.
Cheers
Lei
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Niclas,
>
> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed at
> ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a community,
> group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and action because
> there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could
> be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF
> members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents and
> good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local
> community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese ASF members,
> committers and contributors, who people will trust, instead of any
> individual new to ASF.
>
> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how difficult
> it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. One recent
> example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans Wechat social group
> (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your location
> in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and effective
> communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The wait of a good
> machine translation is an unknown that younger generation contributors
> would not tolerate.
>
> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of
> community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at infant
> stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and events
> (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are language and
> non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China community/group can
> contribute.
>
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> Ted,
> 2 things...
>
> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>
> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But
> the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control driven
> top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation of
> communities". They either form, or they don't.
>
> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing
> grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a
> more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a
> government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate the
> difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>
> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have
> first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in the
> past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where
> this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>
> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking,
> presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a
> peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in
> this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to participate,
> as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>
> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single
> big one.
>
> Keep up the positive work.
>
> Niclas
>
> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >
> > Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> > Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >
> > Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> > However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities
> > and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org
> > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408
> > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFCsX
> > asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ka
> > iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=KN
> > IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first ground-up
> > open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and
> > technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise
> > members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international
> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The
> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> >
> > The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> > community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> > Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> > roadshow details here.
> >
> > - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=m1
> > ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> > he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a
> > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX
> > 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >
> > - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37CWt
> > EOXwqg%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> > er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> > 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0
> > GFRwPs%3d
> > >
> > - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > -
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4gu
> > 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> > .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f8
> > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAF
> > N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > home page
> >
> > After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this
> > roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were
> > unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers,
> > including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> > developers and users, who are willing to join the China community
> > steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents,
> > projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in
> China following the Apache way.
> >
> > Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would
> > be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Ted Liu
> > Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member of
> > KAIYUANSHE
> >
>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
I'm opposed to a separate Apache org, our even an apache project. Not opposed to a china specific org of its own. In fact I helped create KAIYUANSHE that Ted mentions in his original mail and up continue to help that community in the ways I can (I'm also linguistically challenged).
As more Chinese folks learn how we work it becomes more likely that a Chinese speaking community will emerge. Possibly past of the ASF, possibly something different.
I agree the way forward, here at Apache, is for Chinese devs, who are able, to engage in our projects. Some of which already have plenty of Chinese members. Things will grow from there.
At the same time, we in ComDev should help Ted and others in any way we can.
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
Sent: 11/21/2015 3:27 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
Cc: niclas@hedhman.org<ma...@hedhman.org>
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Ross,
How do you square opposition to a separate china org with the irreconcilable needs to maintain English as the language of apache with the need to allow non-English speaking Chinese speakers to participate?
I can't.
To the extent that it is possible, I encourage English capable people from china to participate in projects like singa, Zeppelin and kylin (all Asian origin projects at apache).
That satisfies part of the need.
There is also a serious need for projects that conduct themselves in Chinese. (There are also likely other languages where this need arises)
Such groups cannot validly be overseen by a non-Chinese speaking board.
How is a new Chinese speaking organization anything not important?
I don't suggest that apache create such a beast. I would love it if apache veterans help with it. If I can help, I will, but I am handicapped by my linguistic ignorance. As it is often said, those with the itch must do the scratching.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 18:43, Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not in favor of a separate China org. I am 100% in favor of helping you and your Chinese colleagues right here and through cultural exchanges like those that I talked about at ApacheCon and you have facilitated.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Ross,
How do you square opposition to a separate china org with the irreconcilable needs to maintain English as the language of apache with the need to allow non-English speaking Chinese speakers to participate?
I can't.
To the extent that it is possible, I encourage English capable people from china to participate in projects like singa, Zeppelin and kylin (all Asian origin projects at apache).
That satisfies part of the need.
There is also a serious need for projects that conduct themselves in Chinese. (There are also likely other languages where this need arises)
Such groups cannot validly be overseen by a non-Chinese speaking board.
How is a new Chinese speaking organization anything not important?
I don't suggest that apache create such a beast. I would love it if apache veterans help with it. If I can help, I will, but I am handicapped by my linguistic ignorance. As it is often said, those with the itch must do the scratching.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 18:43, Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not in favor of a separate China org. I am 100% in favor of helping you and your Chinese colleagues right here and through cultural exchanges like those that I talked about at ApacheCon and you have facilitated.
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
"The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China." I agree. This was my conclusion when you kindly facilitated my trip to China earlier this year. It is that trip that motivated me to focus on diversity and knowledge exchange in my State of the Feather session at ApacheCon NA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UkQBOvVhfw around 17 minutes for diversity in general, 27:50 for geographic diversity)
As a result of that trip you and I cooked up the idea of an Apache Event in China. You made that happen with a little help from myself and a bunch of other ASF folks as you note below. Moments ago I sent you details of the just opened ApacheCon CFP and gave you my personal assurance that any Chinese folks who get talks accepted will have my help in connecting with ASF people and mentors where they are available.
I want to share some of that mail here for others to comment on:
Communities are not “formed” through the creation of such organizations. Communities just happen when two things align. 1) there is a common goal - writing the code to solve a problem in the case of the ASF and 2) there are people who facilitate and motivate in order to bring people together around the common goal.
I hear you saying that there are “Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors” who want this. Then they should just do it. Those are the people who should know how to do it and they should just get on with it and do it – in an Apache style – by writing code and facilitating and enabling project communities around that code.
There really is no magic formula. There are set of experiences that need to be shared so that optimal decisions can be made. What people desire is a magic formula called The Apache Way. I’m sorry to say there is no formula and therefore creating a top down structure to manage the spread of this magic formula will do more to kill it than enable it.
What concerns me about this proposal is that it wants to create a China specific Apache body because "the sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China". So if it is at infant stage who is to help guide this infant to maturity? How does the ASF provide guidance to this infant?
I'm not in favor of a separate China org. I am 100% in favor of helping you and your Chinese colleagues right here and through cultural exchanges like those that I talked about at ApacheCon and you have facilitated.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Liu [mailto:tedl@microsoft.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 1:58 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org; niclas@hedhman.org
Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Hi Niclas,
It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans Wechat social group (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Ted,
2 things...
1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single big one.
Keep up the positive work.
Niclas
On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>
> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>
> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities
> and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org
> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408
> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFCsX
> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ka
> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=KN
> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first ground-up
> open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and
> technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise
> members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
>
> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> roadshow details here.
>
> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=m1
> ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a
> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX
> 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >
> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f1
> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37CWt
> EOXwqg%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f1
> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0
> GFRwPs%3d
> >
> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> -
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4gu
> 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f8
> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAF
> N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> home page
>
> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this
> roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were
> unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers,
> including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> developers and users, who are willing to join the China community
> steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents,
> projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
>
> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Ted Liu
> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member of
> KAIYUANSHE
>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
At this point we don't have enough people in China who also understand the Apache Way to drive it forwards. We have some really great help from people like Ted and we have a handful of ASF people on the ground, but we don't have enough to really build momentum - not yet. Those who are willing can't do it alone, they need support. That support should come from here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 11:12 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
On 11/23/15, 11:01 AM, "Benson Margulies" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It won't be a community if people are unable to follow the discussions.
>I think that it would be fine to handle user@ traffic in whatever
>language, but we need to enforce English as the language of community
>decision making.
Sure, once the decision starts to harden. But I see no reason to require it 24/7 and only more harm if we require it. It will force certain discussions to places where you won't know they are going on, or make it so difficult that folks won't participate. Would you really require English-only at an ApacheCon hackathon? So what if a couple of folks are from Russia and speaking Russian amongst themselves. And you always have the right to ask "hey, I saw the word 'Sling' come up in your thread, can you give me a quick summary in English?"
>
>On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Roman Shaposhnik
><ro...@shaposhnik.org>
>wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My initial instinct is that per-language mailing lists aren't a good
>>>idea.
>>> But I would not require that folks post in English either.
>>>Otherwise it feels like saying at ApacheCon that you have to go
>>>another room to have a conversation in your native language. Even
>>>if I can't read what is being written by others, I can probably pick
>>>out a few keywords and at least have an idea that certain topics are
>>>being discussed.
>>
>> There's also
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2ftrans
>> late.google.com&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7ca932815
>> 08c7544e41c6e08d2f43a0d1e%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
>> a=i9Rami39IZVtw%2br4oG0%2bi9bTgM3sEkC6a5Y%2fDc3p4aY%3d ;-)
That would be for me to use if I'm curious about what folks are saying in another language, but IMO, we should not require that folks use it before posting.
-Alex
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 11/23/15, 11:01 AM, "Benson Margulies" <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It won't be a community if people are unable to follow the
>discussions. I think that it would be fine to handle user@ traffic in
>whatever language, but we need to enforce English as the language of
>community decision making.
Sure, once the decision starts to harden. But I see no reason to require
it 24/7 and only more harm if we require it. It will force certain
discussions to places where you won't know they are going on, or make it
so difficult that folks won't participate. Would you really require
English-only at an ApacheCon hackathon? So what if a couple of folks are
from Russia and speaking Russian amongst themselves. And you always have
the right to ask "hey, I saw the word 'Sling' come up in your thread, can
you give me a quick summary in English?"
>
>On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
>wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My initial instinct is that per-language mailing lists aren't a good
>>>idea.
>>> But I would not require that folks post in English either. Otherwise
>>>it
>>> feels like saying at ApacheCon that you have to go another room to
>>>have a
>>> conversation in your native language. Even if I can't read what is
>>>being
>>> written by others, I can probably pick out a few keywords and at least
>>> have an idea that certain topics are being discussed.
>>
>> There's also http://translate.google.com ;-)
That would be for me to use if I'm curious about what folks are saying in
another language, but IMO, we should not require that folks use it before
posting.
-Alex
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
It won't be a community if people are unable to follow the
discussions. I think that it would be fine to handle user@ traffic in
whatever language, but we need to enforce English as the language of
community decision making.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
>> On 11/21/15, 7:06 PM, "William A Rowe Jr" <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
>>
>>>That was my reaction. A dev-cn@community.apache. org could be a useful
>>>discussion vehicle to engage prospects and help with facilitating that
>>>engagement. It wouldn't look all that much different than the usual
>>>English Q&A here on dev@c a o.
>>
>> My initial instinct is that per-language mailing lists aren't a good idea.
>> But I would not require that folks post in English either. Otherwise it
>> feels like saying at ApacheCon that you have to go another room to have a
>> conversation in your native language. Even if I can't read what is being
>> written by others, I can probably pick out a few keywords and at least
>> have an idea that certain topics are being discussed.
>
> There's also http://translate.google.com ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com> wrote:
> On 11/21/15, 7:06 PM, "William A Rowe Jr" <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
>
>>That was my reaction. A dev-cn@community.apache. org could be a useful
>>discussion vehicle to engage prospects and help with facilitating that
>>engagement. It wouldn't look all that much different than the usual
>>English Q&A here on dev@c a o.
>
> My initial instinct is that per-language mailing lists aren't a good idea.
> But I would not require that folks post in English either. Otherwise it
> feels like saying at ApacheCon that you have to go another room to have a
> conversation in your native language. Even if I can't read what is being
> written by others, I can probably pick out a few keywords and at least
> have an idea that certain topics are being discussed.
There's also http://translate.google.com ;-)
Thanks,
Roman.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 11/21/15, 7:06 PM, "William A Rowe Jr" <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
>That was my reaction. A dev-cn@community.apache. org could be a useful
>discussion vehicle to engage prospects and help with facilitating that
>engagement. It wouldn't look all that much different than the usual
>English Q&A here on dev@c a o.
My initial instinct is that per-language mailing lists aren't a good idea.
But I would not require that folks post in English either. Otherwise it
feels like saying at ApacheCon that you have to go another room to have a
conversation in your native language. Even if I can't read what is being
written by others, I can probably pick out a few keywords and at least
have an idea that certain topics are being discussed.
AIUI, while it is best if all discussion about development is on dev@,
only decisions need to be brought back to dev@ (and even then, those
aren't final). Thus, I think the only requirement is that the result of
any non-English discussion would have to be brought back to dev@ in
English. That's sort of the way it works for me in any face-to-face
interaction with teams from other countries. They often discuss amongst
themselves in their native language right in front of me, then one of them
takes the time to explain it to me in English. The Flex mailing lists
recently had a discussion in German because it just happened that the two
main people involved happened to both be fluent in German.
-Alex
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
That was my reaction. A dev-cn@community.apache. org could be a useful
discussion vehicle to engage prospects and help with facilitating that
engagement. It wouldn't look all that much different than the usual
English Q&A here on dev@c a o.
Expecting an interested contributor to rely solely on machine based
translation (which is horrid when it comes to SVO vs SOV and other
orderings) when posting to an English mailing list isn't realistic.
Engaging them to offer code patches, translations and other sorts of
engagement does seem to fall under the remit of the community pmc, no?
On Nov 21, 2015 04:58, "Hervé BOUTEMY" <he...@free.fr> wrote:
> I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or
> "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able
> currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
>
> But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> something
> completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP: staying short,
> I'm
> not convinced
>
> What about creating localized content in http://community.apache.org/ ,
> pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to
> deal
> with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
>
> Because I don't see:
> - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say
> it
> because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common
> convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
>
> But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> (taking
> the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at helping
> people
> work with other TLPs
>
> WDYT?
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > Ted,
> >
> > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> >
> > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> >
> > What exactly do you want to happen?
> >
> > What good thing is not happening?
> >
> > What bad thing is happening?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Niclas,
> > >
> > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed
> at
> > > ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
> > > community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
> > > action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would
> care
> > > and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why a
> group
> > > of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc.,
> want
> > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and
> > > enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > > experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> people
> > > will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > >
> > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> difficult
> > > it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. One recent
> > > example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans Wechat social
> group
> > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> wait
> > > of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger generation
> > > contributors would not tolerate.
> > >
> > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of
> > > community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
> > > infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and events
> > > (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are language
> and
> > > non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China community/group can
> > > contribute.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > > Community
> > >
> > > Ted,
> > > 2 things...
> > >
> > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > >
> > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization.
> But
> > > the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control
> > > driven top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for
> "creation
> > > of communities". They either form, or they don't.
> > >
> > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> Beijing
> > > grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had
> a
> > > more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a
> > > government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate
> > > the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
> > >
> > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> have
> > > first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in
> > > the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a
> stage
> > > where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
> > >
> > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> hacking,
> > > presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> participants, a
> > > peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved
> in
> > > this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to
> > > participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this
> will
> > > spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> single
> > > big one.
> > >
> > > Keep up the positive work.
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > >>
> > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > >> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > >>
> > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public
> services.
> > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities
> > >> and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > >> (
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org
> > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408
> > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFCsX
> > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ka
> > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c2300
> > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=KN
> > >> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first ground-up
> > >> open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and
> > >> technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise
> > >> members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international
> > >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China.
> The
> > >> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought
> > >> it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in
> > >> China.
> > >>
> > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> > >> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> > >> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> > >> roadshow details here.
> > >>
> > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c2300
> > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=m1
> > >> ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c407aaa4b8a
> > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX
> > >> 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> > >> er.com
> %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f1
> > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37CWt
> > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> > >> er.com
> %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f1
> > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0
> > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > >> -
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c230084457
> > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4gu
> > >> 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c407aaa4b8a314f8
> > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAF
> > >> N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > >> home page
> > >>
> > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this
> > >> roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were
> > >> unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers,
> > >> including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> > >> developers and users, who are willing to join the China community
> > >> steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents,
> > >> projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in
> > >> China following the Apache way.
> > >>
> > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would
> > >> be greatly appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ted Liu
> > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member of
> > >> KAIYUANSHE
>
>
答复: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Sure.
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
发送时间: 2015/11/27 19:51
收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
主题: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
ok, waiting for your feedback
but remember, stay really simple for the first try: we need to test the concept
before trying to write much content, just an intro to our intent
Regards,
Hervé
Le jeudi 26 novembre 2015 12:54:23 Ted Liu a écrit :
> Thank Hervé for being committer and Luke & Lei for helping review. I'll
> provide a list of pages to be translated with priority and timeline for
> your feedbacks before moving on to work on them.
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:43 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
> There are many Chinese in ASF community who could help on this, We could
> engage them to help review.
> Count me as one:-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Luke
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I can do the review.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lei Chang
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > ok, I didn't catch you were not committer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
> > > and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being
> > > committer:
> > > did you try?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit
> > > after you submitted it, to check that the process works: I just
> > > won't be able to really review the content :) notice that I can
> > > check what result I get using an automatic translation
> > > service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the
> > > content,
> >
> > with
> >
> > > Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese
> > > speaking people regarding contribution is ok?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > > > Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a
> > > > committer
> > >
> > > of
> > >
> > > > comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> >
> > Apache
> >
> > > > China Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must
> >
> > commit
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit
> > > > privilege.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for
> > > > non-committers
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
> > >
> > > This
> > >
> > > > FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be
> > > > translated
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > crowd-source translation :)
> > > > notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good
> > > > centent,
> > >
> > > he
> > >
> > > > could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code
> > > > TLP,
> > >
> > > but
> > >
> > > > general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ap
> > ache
> >
> > > .
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > .micro
> >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=soft.com&data=0
> > > > 1%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f
> > > > 6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=XZJMH2WkSvxXV
> > > > O%2fkEMAGdKu0dzSwzggwEQkQ19JrPG0%3d
> > >
> > > %7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> > >
> > > > 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> > > > > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here,
> > > > > then send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> >
> > China
> >
> > > > > Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to
> > > > > the OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache
> > > > > committer to
> >
> > be
> >
> > > > > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage
> > > > > people
> >
> > will
> >
> > > > > have to come from existing chinese
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a
> > > >
> > > > patch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the
> > > > > content
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done
> > > > > > the similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing
> > > > > > content and application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website
> > > > > > by our professional translators with Ross' guidance. One
> > > > > > question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community
> > > > > > in China? Our
> >
> > KAIYUANSHE
> >
> > > > > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or
> > > > > > proofreading.
> > > > > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities
> > > > > > and
> >
> > devs
> >
> > > > > > here.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a
> >
> > little
> >
> > > > > > introduction on
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> >
> > > > > > org&da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> >
> > > > > > f28e6
> > > > > > a29
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> >
> > > > > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced
> > > > > > from classical
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > mailing list
> > > > > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do
> > > > > > anything about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't
> > > > > > think there
> >
> > is
> >
> > > > > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > > unit
> > >
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d
> > 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY
> > Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d
> >
> > > > > > m%7ca
> > > > > > 10f
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> >
> > > > > > sdata
> > > > > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > > unit
> > >
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org&d
> > > > > > ata=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f
> > > > > > 8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d
> >
> > %2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> >
> > > > > > com%7
> > > > > > ca1
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> >
> > > > > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas
> > > > > > > to start with.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China
> > > > >
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young
> >
> > people
> >
> > > > > > > to contribute.>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we
> > > > > > > can also help from user experience side, such as pages in
> > > > > > > Chinese for mobile or a Wechat public account for news,
> > > > > > > blogs publishing or other services, and social interactions
> > > > > > > thru Wechat or QQ, such
> >
> > as
> >
> > > > > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > retweet and socialize great articles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus
> > > > > > > because it is used
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > thinking more about it
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Imagine:
> > > > > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> >
> > > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> >
> > > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> >
> > > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > > p
> > > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on +
> > > > > > > mailing list to interact
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a
> > > > > >
> > > > > > little
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > > > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > > > > > contact localized
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> >
> > > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> >
> > > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> >
> > > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > > p
> > > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > > > > > > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP:
> > > > > > > it's about putting
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > in every TLP (starting with
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> >
> > > > > > > data=0
> > > > > > > 1%
> > > > > > > 7
> > > > > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> >
> > > > > > > c9d7%7
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 72f
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> >
> > > > > > > U%2fKs
> > > > > > > X
> > > > > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> >
> > > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> >
> > > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> >
> > > > > > > c7jGf7
> > > > > > > x
> > > > > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized
> > > > > > > helpers in community.apache.org.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage
> > > > > > > more translations on some TLPs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> >
> > > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d
> > 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY
> > Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d
> >
> > > > > > > m%7c37
> > > > > > > 3
> > > > > > > 953
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> >
> > > > > > > sdata=
> > > > > > > O
> > > > > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to
> > > > > > > explain the concept And probably
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> >
> > > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org
> > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b40
> > > > > > > 4b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > > > sdata=mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d
> > >
> > > %2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > >
> > > > > > > t.
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > om%
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> >
> > > > > > > b47%7c
> > > > > > > 1
> > > > > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d
> > > > > > > to point to every localization where this process is started
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we
> > > > > > > should name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a
> > > > > > > better
> >
> > choice
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there
> > > > > > > > is enough energy for it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of
> > > > > > > > the projects themselves;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > >
> > > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > ta
> > > > > > > > =
> > > > > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > >
> > > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > >
> > > > > > > > f2
> > > > > > > > 6a
> > > > > > > > c9
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > >
> > > > > > > > 79
> > > > > > > > VJ
> > > > > > > > Yn
> > > > > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > b.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > >
> > > > > > > > e.
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > g
> > > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > >
> > > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > >
> > > > > > > > 01
> > > > > > > > 08
> > > > > > > > d2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > >
> > > > > > > > Nl
> > > > > > > > LZ
> > > > > > > > Hj
> > > > > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> >
> > > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> >
> > > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> >
> > > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown
> > > > > > > > text format, and should be relatively easy to get going
> > > > > > > > page by
> >
> > page,
> >
> > > > > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know
> > > > > > > > where to put it, and link it into the user experience
> > > > > > > > "somehow".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of
> > > > > > > > work, especially since I think peer review is very
> > > > > > > > important, since language matters for policy and such.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> >
> > > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> >
> > > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> >
> > > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a
> > > > > > > > start,
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a
> > > > > > > > Chinese WhatsApp-like
> > > > > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there
> > > > > > > > could
> >
> > be
> >
> > > > > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly
> >
> > have a
> >
> > > > > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe
> >
> > crowdsourcing,
> >
> > > > > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what
> > > > > > > > > contents
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> > > > > > > > > - Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> > > > > > > > > - Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with
> >
> > China
> >
> > > > > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested
> > > > > > > > > in
> >
> > Open
> >
> > > > > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and
> >
> > cultural
> >
> > > > > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I
> > > > > > > > > read forming something completely separate, and
> > > > > > > > > eventually forming a separate
> > > > > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> >
> > > > > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > > > > un
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > m
> >
> > %7c3f
> >
> > > > > > > > > 189780
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> >
> > > > > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d ,
> > > > > > > > > pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing
> > > > > > > > > lists, focused on explaining community aspects, how to
> > > > > > > > > engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact
> > > > > > > > > that Apache projects are
> > >
> > > done
> > >
> > > > > > > > > in english?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in
> >
> > english
> >
> > > > > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english
> >
> > language
> >
> > > > > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to
> > > > > > > > > learn it
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > :) )
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing
> > > > > > > > > lists, but not code) targeted at helping people work
> > > > > > > > > with other TLPs
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not
> > >
> > > happening.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and
> >
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > > > <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive
> > > > > > > > > > > discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or
> > > > > > > > > > > stereotyping.
> > > > > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in
> >
> > China
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because
> > > > > > > > > > > there are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be
> >
> > instructed
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of
> > > > > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> > > > > > > > > > > contributors, etc.,
> >
> > want
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status
> > > > > > > > > > > quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good
> > > > > > > > > > > projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement
> > > > > > > > > > > of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > > > > > > > > > > experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should
> > > > > > > > > > > already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese
> > > > > > > > > > > after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in
> > > > > > > > > > > English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > > Your ASF status and the fact of your location in
> > > > > > > > > > > Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust
> > > > > > > > > > > and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > > > > > > people's actions.
> >
> > The
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown
> > > > > > > > > > > that younger generation contributors would not
> > > > > > > > > > > tolerate.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences
> >
> > where
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and
> > > > > > > > > > > the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China.
> > > > > > > > > > > There are more than enough good codes and events
> > > > > > > > > > > (conferences,
> > >
> > > meetups,
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
> > >
> > > The
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way
> > > > > > > > > > > culture where the proposed China community/group can
> > > > > > > > > > > contribute.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in
> > > > > > > > > > > China
> >
> > -
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > >
> > > 2011.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of
> > > > > > > > > > > forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many
> > > > > > > > > > > other open source projects are not command&control
> > > > > > > > > > > driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> > > > > > > > > > > "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > > > > > > form, or they
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > don't.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at
> > > > > > > > > > > the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well,
> > > > > > > > > > > whereas the
> > >
> > > somewhat
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of
> > > > > > > > > > > wanting
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a
> > > > > > > > > > > religious organization. I hope that you can
> > > > > > > > > > > appreciate the
> >
> > difference
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a
> > > > > > > > > > > big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the
> > > > > > > > > > > improvements in
> >
> > online
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where
> > > > > > > > > > > this
> >
> > can
> >
> > > be
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > gap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > > > > discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> >
> > participants,
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache
> > >
> > > doesn't
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure
> > > > > > > > > > > many Apache contributors would be happy to
> > > > > > > > > > > participate, as peers, in
> > >
> > > such
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off
> > > > > > > > > > > both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF
> > > > > > > > > > > and other projects.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small
> > > > > > > > > > > efforts, instead of single big one.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu"
> > > > > > > > > > >> <te...@microsoft.com>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community
> > > > > > > > > > >> of Apache fans in China. Would a new China-specific
> > > > > > > > > > >> project at the ComDev be
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > possible?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely
> >
> > adopted
> >
> > > in
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises,
> > >
> > > academic
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > services.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between
> > > > > > > > > > >> ASF
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at
> > > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE (
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > >
> > > %7cf7d98c2300844
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> >
> > > %7cf
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> data =KN
> > > > > > > > > > >> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>,
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to
> >
> > promote
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and
> > > > > > > > > > >> Asia
> >
> > with
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to
> > > > > > > > > > >> bridge
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS
> > > > > > > > > > >> communities,
> > >
> > > like
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The
> > > > > > > > > > >> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We,
> > > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE,
> >
> > thought
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through
> > > > > > > > > > >> another roadshow in China.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > > > > >> was organized by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held
> > > > > > > > > > >> on Oct. 24-25 in
> > >
> > > Beijing
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters
> > > > > > > > > > >> support,
> > >
> > > i.e.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J.
> > > > > > > > > > >> Aaron
> >
> > Farr
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> >
> > > %7cf
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> >
> > > %7c4
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> data =BX
> > >
> > > 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > >
> > > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7
> > > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir
> > > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d
> > >
> > > %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
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> > > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > >
> > > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7
> > > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir
> > > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d
> > >
> > > %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > >> (and
> > > > > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > > >> m
> > >
> > > %7cf7d98c
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > > >> m
> > >
> > > %7c407aaa
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous
> > > > > > > > > > >> requests
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+
> > >
> > > audience
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people
> > > > > > > > > > >> who
> > >
> > > did
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far,
> > > > > > > > > > >> there already are many volunteers, including Apache
> > > > > > > > > > >> members, PMC
> > >
> > > members,
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who
> > > > > > > > > > >> are willing to join the China community steering
> > > > > > > > > > >> committee and
> >
> > working
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and
> > > > > > > > > > >> community
> >
> > in
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China
> > >
> > > following
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community
> > > > > > > > > > >> of
> > >
> > > Apache
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific
> >
> > project
> >
> > > at
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> > >
> > > Co-founding
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
ok, waiting for your feedback
but remember, stay really simple for the first try: we need to test the concept
before trying to write much content, just an intro to our intent
Regards,
Hervé
Le jeudi 26 novembre 2015 12:54:23 Ted Liu a écrit :
> Thank Hervé for being committer and Luke & Lei for helping review. I'll
> provide a list of pages to be translated with priority and timeline for
> your feedbacks before moving on to work on them.
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:43 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
> There are many Chinese in ASF community who could help on this, We could
> engage them to help review.
> Count me as one:-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Luke
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I can do the review.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lei Chang
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > ok, I didn't catch you were not committer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
> > > and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being
> > > committer:
> > > did you try?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit
> > > after you submitted it, to check that the process works: I just
> > > won't be able to really review the content :) notice that I can
> > > check what result I get using an automatic translation
> > > service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the
> > > content,
> >
> > with
> >
> > > Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese
> > > speaking people regarding contribution is ok?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > > > Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a
> > > > committer
> > >
> > > of
> > >
> > > > comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> >
> > Apache
> >
> > > > China Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must
> >
> > commit
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit
> > > > privilege.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for
> > > > non-committers
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
> > >
> > > This
> > >
> > > > FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be
> > > > translated
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > crowd-source translation :)
> > > > notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good
> > > > centent,
> > >
> > > he
> > >
> > > > could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code
> > > > TLP,
> > >
> > > but
> > >
> > > > general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ap
> > ache
> >
> > > .
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > .micro
> >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=soft.com&data=0
> > > > 1%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f
> > > > 6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=XZJMH2WkSvxXV
> > > > O%2fkEMAGdKu0dzSwzggwEQkQ19JrPG0%3d
> > >
> > > %7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> > >
> > > > 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> > > > > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here,
> > > > > then send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> >
> > China
> >
> > > > > Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to
> > > > > the OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache
> > > > > committer to
> >
> > be
> >
> > > > > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage
> > > > > people
> >
> > will
> >
> > > > > have to come from existing chinese
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a
> > > >
> > > > patch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the
> > > > > content
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done
> > > > > > the similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing
> > > > > > content and application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website
> > > > > > by our professional translators with Ross' guidance. One
> > > > > > question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community
> > > > > > in China? Our
> >
> > KAIYUANSHE
> >
> > > > > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or
> > > > > > proofreading.
> > > > > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities
> > > > > > and
> >
> > devs
> >
> > > > > > here.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a
> >
> > little
> >
> > > > > > introduction on
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> >
> > > > > > org&da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> >
> > > > > > f28e6
> > > > > > a29
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> >
> > > > > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced
> > > > > > from classical
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > mailing list
> > > > > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do
> > > > > > anything about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't
> > > > > > think there
> >
> > is
> >
> > > > > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > > unit
> > >
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d
> > 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY
> > Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d
> >
> > > > > > m%7ca
> > > > > > 10f
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> >
> > > > > > sdata
> > > > > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > > unit
> > >
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org&d
> > > > > > ata=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f
> > > > > > 8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d
> >
> > %2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> >
> > > > > > com%7
> > > > > > ca1
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> >
> > > > > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas
> > > > > > > to start with.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China
> > > > >
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young
> >
> > people
> >
> > > > > > > to contribute.>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we
> > > > > > > can also help from user experience side, such as pages in
> > > > > > > Chinese for mobile or a Wechat public account for news,
> > > > > > > blogs publishing or other services, and social interactions
> > > > > > > thru Wechat or QQ, such
> >
> > as
> >
> > > > > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > retweet and socialize great articles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus
> > > > > > > because it is used
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > thinking more about it
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Imagine:
> > > > > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> >
> > > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> >
> > > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> >
> > > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > > p
> > > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on +
> > > > > > > mailing list to interact
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a
> > > > > >
> > > > > > little
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > > > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > > > > > contact localized
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> >
> > > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> >
> > > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> >
> > > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > > p
> > > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > > > > > > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP:
> > > > > > > it's about putting
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > in every TLP (starting with
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> >
> > > > > > > data=0
> > > > > > > 1%
> > > > > > > 7
> > > > > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> >
> > > > > > > c9d7%7
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 72f
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> >
> > > > > > > U%2fKs
> > > > > > > X
> > > > > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> >
> > > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > t
> > > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> >
> > > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> >
> > > > > > > c7jGf7
> > > > > > > x
> > > > > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized
> > > > > > > helpers in community.apache.org.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage
> > > > > > > more translations on some TLPs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> >
> > > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d
> > 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY
> > Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d
> >
> > > > > > > m%7c37
> > > > > > > 3
> > > > > > > 953
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> >
> > > > > > > sdata=
> > > > > > > O
> > > > > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to
> > > > > > > explain the concept And probably
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> >
> > > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org
> > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b40
> > > > > > > 4b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > > > sdata=mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d
> > >
> > > %2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > >
> > > > > > > t.
> > > > > > > c
> > > > > > > om%
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> >
> > > > > > > b47%7c
> > > > > > > 1
> > > > > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d
> > > > > > > to point to every localization where this process is started
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we
> > > > > > > should name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a
> > > > > > > better
> >
> > choice
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there
> > > > > > > > is enough energy for it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of
> > > > > > > > the projects themselves;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > >
> > > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > ta
> > > > > > > > =
> > > > > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > >
> > > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > >
> > > > > > > > f2
> > > > > > > > 6a
> > > > > > > > c9
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > >
> > > > > > > > 79
> > > > > > > > VJ
> > > > > > > > Yn
> > > > > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > b.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > >
> > > > > > > > e.
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > g
> > > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > >
> > > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > >
> > > > > > > > 01
> > > > > > > > 08
> > > > > > > > d2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > >
> > > > > > > > Nl
> > > > > > > > LZ
> > > > > > > > Hj
> > > > > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> >
> > > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> >
> > > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> >
> > > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown
> > > > > > > > text format, and should be relatively easy to get going
> > > > > > > > page by
> >
> > page,
> >
> > > > > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know
> > > > > > > > where to put it, and link it into the user experience
> > > > > > > > "somehow".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of
> > > > > > > > work, especially since I think peer review is very
> > > > > > > > important, since language matters for policy and such.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> >
> > > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> >
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> >
> > > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> >
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> >
> > > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a
> > > > > > > > start,
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a
> > > > > > > > Chinese WhatsApp-like
> > > > > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there
> > > > > > > > could
> >
> > be
> >
> > > > > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly
> >
> > have a
> >
> > > > > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe
> >
> > crowdsourcing,
> >
> > > > > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what
> > > > > > > > > contents
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> > > > > > > > > - Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> > > > > > > > > - Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with
> >
> > China
> >
> > > > > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested
> > > > > > > > > in
> >
> > Open
> >
> > > > > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and
> >
> > cultural
> >
> > > > > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I
> > > > > > > > > read forming something completely separate, and
> > > > > > > > > eventually forming a separate
> > > > > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> >
> > > > > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > > > > un
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > m
> >
> > %7c3f
> >
> > > > > > > > > 189780
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> >
> > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> >
> > > > > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d ,
> > > > > > > > > pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing
> > > > > > > > > lists, focused on explaining community aspects, how to
> > > > > > > > > engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact
> > > > > > > > > that Apache projects are
> > >
> > > done
> > >
> > > > > > > > > in english?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in
> >
> > english
> >
> > > > > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english
> >
> > language
> >
> > > > > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to
> > > > > > > > > learn it
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > :) )
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing
> > > > > > > > > lists, but not code) targeted at helping people work
> > > > > > > > > with other TLPs
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not
> > >
> > > happening.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and
> >
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > > > <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive
> > > > > > > > > > > discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or
> > > > > > > > > > > stereotyping.
> > > > > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in
> >
> > China
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because
> > > > > > > > > > > there are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be
> >
> > instructed
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of
> > > > > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> > > > > > > > > > > contributors, etc.,
> >
> > want
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status
> > > > > > > > > > > quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good
> > > > > > > > > > > projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement
> > > > > > > > > > > of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > > > > > > > > > > experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should
> > > > > > > > > > > already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese
> > > > > > > > > > > after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in
> > > > > > > > > > > English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > > Your ASF status and the fact of your location in
> > > > > > > > > > > Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust
> > > > > > > > > > > and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > > > > > > people's actions.
> >
> > The
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown
> > > > > > > > > > > that younger generation contributors would not
> > > > > > > > > > > tolerate.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences
> >
> > where
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and
> > > > > > > > > > > the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China.
> > > > > > > > > > > There are more than enough good codes and events
> > > > > > > > > > > (conferences,
> > >
> > > meetups,
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
> > >
> > > The
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way
> > > > > > > > > > > culture where the proposed China community/group can
> > > > > > > > > > > contribute.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in
> > > > > > > > > > > China
> >
> > -
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > >
> > > 2011.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of
> > > > > > > > > > > forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many
> > > > > > > > > > > other open source projects are not command&control
> > > > > > > > > > > driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> > > > > > > > > > > "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > > > > > > form, or they
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > don't.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at
> > > > > > > > > > > the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well,
> > > > > > > > > > > whereas the
> > >
> > > somewhat
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of
> > > > > > > > > > > wanting
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a
> > > > > > > > > > > religious organization. I hope that you can
> > > > > > > > > > > appreciate the
> >
> > difference
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a
> > > > > > > > > > > big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the
> > > > > > > > > > > improvements in
> >
> > online
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where
> > > > > > > > > > > this
> >
> > can
> >
> > > be
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > gap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > > > > discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> >
> > participants,
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache
> > >
> > > doesn't
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure
> > > > > > > > > > > many Apache contributors would be happy to
> > > > > > > > > > > participate, as peers, in
> > >
> > > such
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off
> > > > > > > > > > > both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF
> > > > > > > > > > > and other projects.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small
> > > > > > > > > > > efforts, instead of single big one.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu"
> > > > > > > > > > >> <te...@microsoft.com>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community
> > > > > > > > > > >> of Apache fans in China. Would a new China-specific
> > > > > > > > > > >> project at the ComDev be
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > possible?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely
> >
> > adopted
> >
> > > in
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises,
> > >
> > > academic
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > services.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between
> > > > > > > > > > >> ASF
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at
> > > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE (
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > >
> > > %7cf7d98c2300844
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> >
> > > %7cf
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> data =KN
> > > > > > > > > > >> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>,
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to
> >
> > promote
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and
> > > > > > > > > > >> Asia
> >
> > with
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to
> > > > > > > > > > >> bridge
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS
> > > > > > > > > > >> communities,
> > >
> > > like
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The
> > > > > > > > > > >> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We,
> > > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE,
> >
> > thought
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through
> > > > > > > > > > >> another roadshow in China.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > > > > >> was organized by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held
> > > > > > > > > > >> on Oct. 24-25 in
> > >
> > > Beijing
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters
> > > > > > > > > > >> support,
> > >
> > > i.e.
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J.
> > > > > > > > > > >> Aaron
> >
> > Farr
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> >
> > > %7cf
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> > t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> > d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> > 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> >
> > > %7c4
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> data =BX
> > >
> > > 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > >
> > > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7
> > > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir
> > > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d
> > >
> > > %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > >
> > > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7
> > > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir
> > > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d
> > >
> > > %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > > >> (and
> > > > > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > > >> m
> > >
> > > %7cf7d98c
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > > >> m
> > >
> > > %7c407aaa
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > >
> > > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous
> > > > > > > > > > >> requests
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+
> > >
> > > audience
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people
> > > > > > > > > > >> who
> > >
> > > did
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far,
> > > > > > > > > > >> there already are many volunteers, including Apache
> > > > > > > > > > >> members, PMC
> > >
> > > members,
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who
> > > > > > > > > > >> are willing to join the China community steering
> > > > > > > > > > >> committee and
> >
> > working
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and
> > > > > > > > > > >> community
> >
> > in
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China
> > >
> > > following
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community
> > > > > > > > > > >> of
> > >
> > > Apache
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific
> >
> > project
> >
> > > at
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
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> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> > >
> > > Co-founding
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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RE: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Thank Hervé for being committer and Luke & Lei for helping review. I'll provide a list of pages to be translated with priority and timeline for your feedbacks before moving on to work on them.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:43 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
There are many Chinese in ASF community who could help on this, We could engage them to help review.
Count me as one:-)
Thanks.
Luke
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can do the review.
>
> Cheers
> Lei Chang
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>
> wrote:
>
> > ok, I didn't catch you were not committer
> >
> > As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
> > and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being
> > committer:
> > did you try?
> >
> > I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit
> > after you submitted it, to check that the process works: I just
> > won't be able to really review the content :) notice that I can
> > check what result I get using an automatic translation
> > service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try
> >
> > Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the
> > content,
> with
> > Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese
> > speaking people regarding contribution is ok?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a
> > > committer
> > of
> > > comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
> >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> Apache
> > > China Community
> >
> > > yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must
> commit
> > >
> > > for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
> > >
> > > but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for
> > > non-committers
> to
> > > easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
> > This
> > > FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be
> > > translated
> to
> > > crowd-source translation :)
> > > notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good
> > > centent,
> > he
> > > could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code
> > > TLP,
> > but
> > > general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
> >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ap
> ache
> > .
> > >
> >
> org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> .micro
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=soft.com&data=0
> > > 1%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f
> > > 6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=XZJMH2WkSvxXV
> > > O%2fkEMAGdKu0dzSwzggwEQkQ19JrPG0%3d
> > %7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> > > 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
> >
> > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > > > The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> > > > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here,
> > > > then send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China
> > > > Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to
> > > > the OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache
> > > > committer to
> be
> > > > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage
> > > > people
> will
> > > > have to come from existing chinese
> > >
> > > speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a
> > > patch
> > >
> > > > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the
> > > > content
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done
> > > > > the similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing
> > > > > content and application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website
> > > > > by our professional translators with Ross' guidance. One
> > > > > question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community
> > > > > in China? Our
> KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading.
> > > > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities
> > > > > and
> devs
> > > > > here.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a
> little
> > > > > introduction on
> > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > > > > org&da
> > > > > t
> > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > > > > f28e6
> > > > > a29
> > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > > > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq
> > > > > [2]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced
> > > > > from classical
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > mailing list
> > > > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do
> > > > > anything about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't
> > > > > think there
> is
> > > > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > unit
> > > > > y.
> > > > > a
> > > > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d
> 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY
> Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d
> > > > > m%7ca
> > > > > 10f
> > > > >
> a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > sdata
> > > > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > unit
> > > > > y.
> > > > > a
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org&d
> > > > > ata=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f
> > > > > 8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d
> %2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > > > com%7
> > > > > ca1
> > > > >
> 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > > > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas
> > > > > > to start with.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young
> people
> > > > > > to contribute.>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we
> > > > > > can also help from user experience side, such as pages in
> > > > > > Chinese for mobile or a Wechat public account for news,
> > > > > > blogs publishing or other services, and social interactions
> > > > > > thru Wechat or QQ, such
> as
> > > > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > retweet and socialize great articles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus
> > > > > > because it is used
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > thinking more about it
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Imagine:
> > > > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > p
> > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on +
> > > > > > mailing list to interact
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a
> > > > > little
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > > > > contact localized
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > p
> > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > > > > > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP:
> > > > > > it's about putting
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > in every TLP (starting with
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > > data=0
> > > > > > 1%
> > > > > > 7
> > > > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > > > > c9d7%7
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 72f
> > > > > >
> 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > > > > U%2fKs
> > > > > > X
> > > > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > > > > c7jGf7
> > > > > > x
> > > > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized
> > > > > > helpers in community.apache.org.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage
> > > > > > more translations on some TLPs.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> t.co&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d
> 5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=I%2b6DxTuY
> Vz1ip7uP1uYnBXa3KEtdJX0UzMmPmrozhTY%3d
> > > > > > m%7c37
> > > > > > 3
> > > > > > 953
> > > > > >
> 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > > sdata=
> > > > > > O
> > > > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to
> > > > > > explain the concept And probably
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=pache.org
> > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b40
> > > > > > 4b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > > sdata=mnPUJ78cV5mYDC9ViG%2bYkuOmRStytqvgwgOut094Fe8%3d
> > %2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > > > > > t.
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > om%
> > > > > >
> 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > > > > b47%7c
> > > > > > 1
> > > > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d
> > > > > > to point to every localization where this process is started
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we
> > > > > > should name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a
> > > > > > better
> choice
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there
> > > > > > > is enough energy for it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of
> > > > > > > the projects themselves;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a.
> > > > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > ta
> > > > > > > =
> > > > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > > > > > > f2
> > > > > > > 6a
> > > > > > > c9
> > > > > > >
> > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > > > > > > 79
> > > > > > > VJ
> > > > > > > Yn
> > > > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > b.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > > > e.
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > g
> > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > > > > > > 01
> > > > > > > 08
> > > > > > > d2
> > > > > > >
> > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > > > > > > Nl
> > > > > > > LZ
> > > > > > > Hj
> > > > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown
> > > > > > > text format, and should be relatively easy to get going
> > > > > > > page by
> page,
> > > > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know
> > > > > > > where to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of
> > > > > > > work, especially since I think peer review is very
> > > > > > > important, since language matters for policy and such.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a
> > > > > > > start,
> and
> > > > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a
> > > > > > > Chinese WhatsApp-like
> > > > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there
> > > > > > > could
> be
> > > > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly
> have a
> > > > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu
> > > > > > > <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe
> crowdsourcing,
> > > > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what
> > > > > > > > contents
> and
> > > > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> > > > > > > > - Apache China Community
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> > > > > > > > - Apache China Community
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with
> China
> > > > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested
> > > > > > > > in
> Open
> > > > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and
> cultural
> > > > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I
> > > > > > > > read forming something completely separate, and
> > > > > > > > eventually forming a separate
> > > > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > > > un
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > m
> %7c3f
> > > > > > > > 189780
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > > >
> cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d ,
> > > > > > > > pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing
> > > > > > > > lists, focused on explaining community aspects, how to
> > > > > > > > engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact
> > > > > > > > that Apache projects are
> > done
> > > > > > > > in english?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in
> english
> > > > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english
> language
> > > > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to
> > > > > > > > learn it
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > :) )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing
> > > > > > > > lists, but not code) targeted at helping people work
> > > > > > > > with other TLPs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not
> > happening.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and
> elsewhere.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > > <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive
> > > > > > > > > > discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping.
> > > > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in
> China
> > > > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because
> > > > > > > > > > there are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be
> instructed
> > > > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of
> > > > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers,
> > > > > > > > > > contributors, etc.,
> want
> > > > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status
> > > > > > > > > > quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good
> > > > > > > > > > projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement
> > > > > > > > > > of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > > > > > > > > > experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should
> > > > > > > > > > already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese
> > > > > > > > > > after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in
> > > > > > > > > > English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > Your ASF status and the fact of your location in
> > > > > > > > > > Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust
> > > > > > > > > > and effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions.
> The
> > > > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown
> > > > > > > > > > that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences
> where
> > > > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and
> > > > > > > > > > the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China.
> > > > > > > > > > There are more than enough good codes and events
> > > > > > > > > > (conferences,
> > meetups,
> > > > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
> > The
> > > > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way
> > > > > > > > > > culture where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in
> > > > > > > > > > China
> -
> > > > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > 2011.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of
> > > > > > > > > > forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many
> > > > > > > > > > other open source projects are not command&control
> > > > > > > > > > driven top-down structures. So, there is very little
> > > > > > > > > > "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > > > > > form, or they
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > don't.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at
> > > > > > > > > > the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well,
> > > > > > > > > > whereas the
> > somewhat
> > > > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of
> > > > > > > > > > wanting
> > to
> > > > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a
> > > > > > > > > > religious organization. I hope that you can
> > > > > > > > > > appreciate the
> difference
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a
> > > > > > > > > > big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the
> > > > > > > > > > improvements in
> online
> > > > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where
> > > > > > > > > > this
> can
> > be
> > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > gap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > > > discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by
> > > > > > > > > > the
> participants,
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache
> > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure
> > > > > > > > > > many Apache contributors would be happy to
> > > > > > > > > > participate, as peers, in
> > such
> > > > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off
> > > > > > > > > > both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF
> > > > > > > > > > and other projects.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small
> > > > > > > > > > efforts, instead of single big one.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu"
> > > > > > > > > >> <te...@microsoft.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community
> > > > > > > > > >> of Apache fans in China. Would a new China-specific
> > > > > > > > > >> project at the ComDev be
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > possible?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely
> adopted
> > in
> > > > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises,
> > academic
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > services.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between
> > > > > > > > > >> ASF
> and
> > > > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at
> > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE (
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7cf7d98c2300844
> > > > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > > > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> > %7cf
> > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> data =KN
> > > > > > > > > >> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>,
> > the
> > > > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to
> promote
> > > > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and
> > > > > > > > > >> Asia
> with
> > > > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to
> > > > > > > > > >> bridge
> > the
> > > > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS
> > > > > > > > > >> communities,
> > like
> > > > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The
> > > > > > > > > >> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We,
> > > > > > > > > >> KAIYUANSHE,
> thought
> > > > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through
> > > > > > > > > >> another roadshow in China.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > > > >> was organized by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held
> > > > > > > > > >> on Oct. 24-25 in
> > Beijing
> > > > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters
> > > > > > > > > >> support,
> > i.e.
> > > > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J.
> > > > > > > > > >> Aaron
> Farr
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> > %7cf
> > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=40064d.mgd.microsof
> t.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8
> d5a08d2f6460bf8%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=aPVAsAPEe
> 7B5AXHey%2b%2bHp5th5237S4xdZ34Prv%2fLYCE%3d
> > %7c4
> > > > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> data =BX
> > 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7
> > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir
> > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d
> > %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > > > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd
> > > > > > > > > >> .microsoft.com%7c651316116b404b3f8d5a08d2f6460bf8%7
> > > > > > > > > >> c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=lGJzqir
> > > > > > > > > >> rrpp60iLUqNPeeZfGJGMjLLs8HYzCFw3zQhU%3d
> > %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > > > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org>
> > > > > > > > > >> (and
> > > > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > >> m
> > %7cf7d98c
> > > > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > > > > >> m
> > %7c407aaa
> > > > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous
> > > > > > > > > >> requests
> > to
> > > > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+
> > audience
> > > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people
> > > > > > > > > >> who
> > did
> > > > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far,
> > > > > > > > > >> there already are many volunteers, including Apache
> > > > > > > > > >> members, PMC
> > members,
> > > > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who
> > > > > > > > > >> are willing to join the China community steering
> > > > > > > > > >> committee and
> working
> > > > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and
> > > > > > > > > >> community
> in
> > > > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China
> > following
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community
> > > > > > > > > >> of
> > Apache
> > > > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific
> project
> > at
> > > > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> > Co-founding
> > > > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>.
There are many Chinese in ASF community who could help on this,
We could engage them to help review.
Count me as one:-)
Thanks.
Luke
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can do the review.
>
> Cheers
> Lei Chang
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>
> wrote:
>
> > ok, I didn't catch you were not committer
> >
> > As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
> > and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being
> > committer:
> > did you try?
> >
> > I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit after
> > you
> > submitted it, to check that the process works: I just won't be able to
> > really
> > review the content :)
> > notice that I can check what result I get using an automatic translation
> > service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try
> >
> > Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the content,
> with
> > Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese speaking
> > people
> > regarding contribution is ok?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a committer
> > of
> > > comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
> >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> Apache
> > > China Community
> >
> > > yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must
> commit
> > >
> > > for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
> > >
> > > but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers
> to
> > > easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
> > This
> > > FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated
> to
> > > crowd-source translation :)
> > > notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent,
> > he
> > > could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP,
> > but
> > > general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
> >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.apache
> > .
> > >
> >
> org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.micro
> > > soft.com
> > %7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> > > 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
> >
> > > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > > > The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> > > > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then
> > > > send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China
> > > > Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the
> > > > OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to
> be
> > > > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage people
> will
> > > > have to come from existing chinese
> > >
> > > speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> > >
> > > > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > > > > similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and
> > > > > application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our
> > > > > professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we
> > > > > crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our
> KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading.
> > > > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and
> devs
> > > > > here.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > > > > Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a
> little
> > > > > introduction on
> > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > > > > org&da
> > > > > t
> > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > > > > f28e6
> > > > > a29
> > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > > > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > > > > classical
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > mailing list
> > > > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything
> > > > > about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there
> is
> > > > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > > > y.
> > > > > a
> > > > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> 40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > m%7ca
> > > > > 10f
> > > > >
> a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > sdata
> > > > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > > > y.
> > > > > a
> > > > > pache.org
> %2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > > > com%7
> > > > > ca1
> > > > >
> 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > > > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to
> > > > > > start with.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young
> people
> > > > > > to contribute.>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can
> > > > > > also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for
> > > > > > mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or
> > > > > > other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such
> as
> > > > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > retweet and socialize great articles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because
> > > > > > it is used
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > thinking more about it
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Imagine:
> > > > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > p
> > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing
> > > > > > list to interact
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > > > > contact localized
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > > p
> > > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP IMHO,
> > > > > > it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > > > > > putting
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > in every TLP (starting with
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > > data=0
> > > > > > 1%
> > > > > > 7
> > > > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > > > > c9d7%7
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 72f
> > > > > >
> 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > > > > U%2fKs
> > > > > > X
> > > > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > > e.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > t
> > > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > 9d7
> > > > > >
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > > > > c7jGf7
> > > > > > x
> > > > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers
> > > > > > in community.apache.org.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > > > > translations on some TLPs.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> 40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > > m%7c37
> > > > > > 3
> > > > > > 953
> > > > > >
> 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > > sdata=
> > > > > > O
> > > > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain
> > > > > > the concept And probably
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > > > mmunit
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > pache.org
> > %2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > > > > > t.
> > > > > > c
> > > > > > om%
> > > > > >
> 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > > > > b47%7c
> > > > > > 1
> > > > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to
> > > > > > point to every localization where this process is started
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should
> > > > > > name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better
> choice
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is
> > > > > > > enough energy for it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > > > > projects themselves;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a.
> > > > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > ta
> > > > > > > =
> > > > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > > > > > > f2
> > > > > > > 6a
> > > > > > > c9
> > > > > > >
> > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > > > > > > 79
> > > > > > > VJ
> > > > > > > Yn
> > > > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > b.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > > > e.
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > g
> > > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > > > > > > 01
> > > > > > > 08
> > > > > > > d2
> > > > > > >
> > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > > > > > > Nl
> > > > > > > LZ
> > > > > > > Hj
> > > > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text
> > > > > > > format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by
> page,
> > > > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where
> > > > > > > to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > > > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > > > > language matters for policy and such.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > > > che.or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > > > 310010
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start,
> and
> > > > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could
> be
> > > > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly
> have a
> > > > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe
> crowdsourcing,
> > > > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what contents
> and
> > > > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with
> China
> > > > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested in
> Open
> > > > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and
> cultural
> > > > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > > > > forming something completely separate, and eventually forming
> > > > > > > > a separate
> > > > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > > > un
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com
> %7c3f
> > > > > > > > 189780
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > > >
> cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing
> > > > > > > > to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> > > > > > > > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache
> > > > > > > > projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are
> > done
> > > > > > > > in english?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in
> english
> > > > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english
> language
> > > > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > :) )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but
> > > > > > > > not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not
> > happening.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and
> elsewhere.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion
> > > > > > > > > > can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping.
> > > > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in
> China
> > > > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because there
> > > > > > > > > > are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be
> instructed
> > > > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF
> > > > > > > > > > members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc.,
> want
> > > > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> > > > > > > > > > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
> > > > > > > > > > ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local
> > > > > > > > > > community/group will be mainly from the experienced
> > > > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > > > > > > > > > people will trust,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already
> > > > > > > > > > know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+
> > > > > > > > > > years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English,
> > > > > > > > > > to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status
> > > > > > > > > > and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not
> > > > > > > > > > automatically translate into trust and effective
> > > > > > > > > > communication to enable and motivate people's actions.
> The
> > > > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that
> > > > > > > > > > younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences
> where
> > > > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and the
> > > > > > > > > > Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are
> > > > > > > > > > more than enough good codes and events (conferences,
> > meetups,
> > > > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
> > The
> > > > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture
> > > > > > > > > > where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China
> -
> > > > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and
> > 2011.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source
> > > > > > > > > > projects are not command&control driven top-down
> > > > > > > > > > structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation
> > > > > > > > > > of communities". They either form, or they
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > don't.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the
> > > > > > > > > > Roadshow
> > > > > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the
> > somewhat
> > > > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting
> > to
> > > > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the
> difference
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big
> > > > > > > > > > barrier,
> > > > > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in
> online
> > > > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this
> can
> > be
> > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > gap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > > > discussion,
> > > > > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the
> participants,
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache
> > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many
> > > > > > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in
> > such
> > > > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts,
> > > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of
> > > > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > possible?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely
> adopted
> > in
> > > > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises,
> > academic
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > services.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF
> and
> > > > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > > > >> (
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7cf7d98c2300844
> > > > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > > > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> 40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7cf
> > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>,
> > the
> > > > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to
> promote
> > > > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia
> with
> > > > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge
> > the
> > > > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities,
> > like
> > > > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last
> > > > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE,
> thought
> > > > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > > > > > > > > >> roadshow
> > > > > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was
> > > > > > > > > >> organized
> > > > > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in
> > Beijing
> > > > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support,
> > i.e.
> > > > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron
> Farr
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> 40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7cf
> > > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%
> 40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c4
> > > > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> data =BX
> > 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > > > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > > >> er.com
> > %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > > > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7cf7d98c
> > > > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> > %7c407aaa
> > > > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests
> > to
> > > > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+
> > audience
> > > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who
> > did
> > > > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there
> > > > > > > > > >> already
> > > > > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC
> > members,
> > > > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and
> working
> > > > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community
> in
> > > > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China
> > following
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of
> > Apache
> > > > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific
> project
> > at
> > > > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> > Co-founding
> > > > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com>.
I can do the review.
Cheers
Lei Chang
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>
wrote:
> ok, I didn't catch you were not committer
>
> As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
> and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being
> committer:
> did you try?
>
> I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit after
> you
> submitted it, to check that the process works: I just won't be able to
> really
> review the content :)
> notice that I can check what result I get using an automatic translation
> service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try
>
> Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the content, with
> Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese speaking
> people
> regarding contribution is ok?
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a committer
> of
> > comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
>
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
>
> > yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must commit
> >
> > for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
> >
> > but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers to
> > easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
> This
> > FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated to
> > crowd-source translation :)
> > notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent,
> he
> > could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP,
> but
> > general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
>
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.apache
> .
> >
> org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.micro
> > soft.com
> %7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> > 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
>
> > Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> >
> > > The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> > > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then
> > > send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > > ________________________________
> > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > > Community
> >
> >
> >
> > > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the
> > > OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be
> > > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage people will
> > > have to come from existing chinese
> >
> > speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> >
> > > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > > > similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and
> > > > application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our
> > > > professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we
> > > > crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE
> > > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading.
> > > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and devs
> > > > here.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > > > Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> > > > introduction on
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > > > org&da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > > > f28e6
> > > > a29
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > > > classical
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > mailing list
> > > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything
> > > > about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there is
> > > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > > y.
> > > > a
> > > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > m%7ca
> > > > 10f
> > > > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > sdata
> > > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > > y.
> > > > a
> > > > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > > com%7
> > > > ca1
> > > > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to
> > > > > start with.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people
> > > > > to contribute.>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can
> > > > > also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for
> > > > > mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or
> > > > > other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as
> > > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > retweet and socialize great articles.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because
> > > > > it is used
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > thinking more about it
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Imagine:
> > > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > > e.org&
> > > > > da
> > > > > t
> > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > c
> > > > > 9d7
> > > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > p
> > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing
> > > > > list to interact
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > > > contact localized
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > > e.org&
> > > > > da
> > > > > t
> > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > c
> > > > > 9d7
> > > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > > RyF45m
> > > > > p
> > > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP IMHO,
> > > > > it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > > > > putting
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > in every TLP (starting with
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > data=0
> > > > > 1%
> > > > > 7
> > > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > > > c9d7%7
> > > > > c
> > > > > 72f
> > > > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > > > U%2fKs
> > > > > X
> > > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > e.org&
> > > > > da
> > > > > t
> > > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > > d2f26a
> > > > > c
> > > > > 9d7
> > > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > > > c7jGf7
> > > > > x
> > > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers
> > > > > in community.apache.org.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > > > translations on some TLPs.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > > mmunit
> > > > > y.
> > > > > a
> > > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > > m%7c37
> > > > > 3
> > > > > 953
> > > > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > > sdata=
> > > > > O
> > > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain
> > > > > the concept And probably
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > > mmunit
> > > > > y.
> > > > > a
> > > > > pache.org
> %2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > > > > t.
> > > > > c
> > > > > om%
> > > > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > > > b47%7c
> > > > > 1
> > > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to
> > > > > point to every localization where this process is started
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should
> > > > > name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is
> > > > > > enough energy for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > > > projects themselves;
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a.
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > ta
> > > > > > =
> > > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > > > > > f2
> > > > > > 6a
> > > > > > c9
> > > > > >
> d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > > > > > 79
> > > > > > VJ
> > > > > > Yn
> > > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > b.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > > e.
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > g
> > > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > > > > > 01
> > > > > > 08
> > > > > > d2
> > > > > >
> f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > > > > > Nl
> > > > > > LZ
> > > > > > Hj
> > > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > > che.or
> > > > > >
> > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > > 310010
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > >
> > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text
> > > > > > format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by page,
> > > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where
> > > > > > to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > > > language matters for policy and such.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > > che.or
> > > > > >
> > > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > > 310010
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > >
> > > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and
> > > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing,
> > > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what contents and
> > > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China
> > > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open
> > > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and cultural
> > > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > > > forming something completely separate, and eventually forming
> > > > > > > a separate
> > > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > > un
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > y.
> > > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f
> > > > > > > 189780
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing
> > > > > > > to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> > > > > > > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache
> > > > > > > projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are
> done
> > > > > > > in english?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english
> > > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language
> > > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > :) )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but
> > > > > > > not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not
> happening.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion
> > > > > > > > > can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping.
> > > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China
> > > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because there
> > > > > > > > > are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed
> > > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF
> > > > > > > > > members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want
> > > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> > > > > > > > > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
> > > > > > > > > ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local
> > > > > > > > > community/group will be mainly from the experienced
> > > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > > > > > > > > people will trust,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already
> > > > > > > > > know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+
> > > > > > > > > years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English,
> > > > > > > > > to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status
> > > > > > > > > and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not
> > > > > > > > > automatically translate into trust and effective
> > > > > > > > > communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that
> > > > > > > > > younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where
> > > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and the
> > > > > > > > > Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are
> > > > > > > > > more than enough good codes and events (conferences,
> meetups,
> > > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
> The
> > > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture
> > > > > > > > > where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and
> 2011.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source
> > > > > > > > > projects are not command&control driven top-down
> > > > > > > > > structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation
> > > > > > > > > of communities". They either form, or they
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > don't.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the
> > > > > > > > > Roadshow
> > > > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the
> somewhat
> > > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting
> to
> > > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big
> > > > > > > > > barrier,
> > > > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can
> be
> > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > gap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > > discussion,
> > > > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants,
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache
> doesn't
> > > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many
> > > > > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in
> such
> > > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts,
> > > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of
> > > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > possible?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted
> in
> > > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises,
> academic
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > services.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > > >> (
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c2300844
> > > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > > >>
> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf
> > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > >>
> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>,
> the
> > > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote
> > > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with
> > > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge
> the
> > > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities,
> like
> > > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last
> > > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought
> > > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > > > > > > > >> roadshow
> > > > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was
> > > > > > > > >> organized
> > > > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in
> Beijing
> > > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support,
> i.e.
> > > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf
> > > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > > >>
> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c4
> > > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > > >>
> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> data =BX
> 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > >> er.com
> %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > >>
> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > > >> er.com
> %2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > > >>
> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7cf7d98c
> > > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > > >>
> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com
> %7c407aaa
> > > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > > >>
> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests
> to
> > > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+
> audience
> > > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who
> did
> > > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there
> > > > > > > > >> already
> > > > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC
> members,
> > > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China
> following
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of
> Apache
> > > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project
> at
> > > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> Co-founding
> > > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
ok, I didn't catch you were not committer
As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being committer:
did you try?
I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit after you
submitted it, to check that the process works: I just won't be able to really
review the content :)
notice that I can check what result I get using an automatic translation
service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try
Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the content, with
Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese speaking people
regarding contribution is ok?
Regards,
Hervé
Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a committer of
> comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
> yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must commit
>
> for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
>
> but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers to
> easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
This
> FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated to
> crowd-source translation :)
> notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent, he
> could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP, but
> general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.apache.
> org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.micro
> soft.com%7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
> Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then
> > send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
>
>
>
> >
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the
> > OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be
> > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage people will
> > have to come from existing chinese
>
> speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
>
> > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> >
> >
> > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > > similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and
> > > application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our
> > > professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we
> > > crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE
> > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading.
> > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and devs
> > > here.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > > ________________________________
> > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > > Community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> > > introduction on
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > > org&da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > > f28e6
> > > a29
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > > classical
> >
> >
> >
> > english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> >
> >
> >
> > > mailing list
> > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything
> > > about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there is
> > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > m%7ca
> > > 10f
> > > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > sdata
> > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > [2]
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > com%7
> > > ca1
> > > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to
> > > > start with.
> >
> >
> >
> > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> >
> >
> >
> > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people
> > > > to contribute.>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can
> > > > also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for
> > > > mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or
> > > > other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as
> > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> >
> >
> >
> > retweet and socialize great articles.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because
> > > > it is used
> >
> >
> >
> > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> >
> >
> >
> > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > thinking more about it
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Imagine:
> > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > e.org&
> > > > da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > d2f26a
> > > > c
> > > > 9d7
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > RyF45m
> > > > p
> > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing
> > > > list to interact
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > > contact localized
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > e.org&
> > > > da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > d2f26a
> > > > c
> > > > 9d7
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > RyF45m
> > > > p
> > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP IMHO,
> > > > it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > > > putting
> >
> >
> >
> > in every TLP (starting with
> >
> >
> >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > data=0
> > > > 1%
> > > > 7
> > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > > c9d7%7
> > > > c
> > > > 72f
> > > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > > U%2fKs
> > > > X
> > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > e.org&
> > > > da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > d2f26a
> > > > c
> > > > 9d7
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > > c7jGf7
> > > > x
> > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers
> > > > in community.apache.org.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > > translations on some TLPs.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > mmunit
> > > > y.
> > > > a
> > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > m%7c37
> > > > 3
> > > > 953
> > > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > sdata=
> > > > O
> > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain
> > > > the concept And probably
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > mmunit
> > > > y.
> > > > a
> > > > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > > > t.
> > > > c
> > > > om%
> > > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > > b47%7c
> > > > 1
> > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to
> > > > point to every localization where this process is started
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should
> > > > name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is
> > > > > enough energy for it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > > projects themselves;
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > a.
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > > da
> > > > > ta
> > > > > =
> > > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > > > > f2
> > > > > 6a
> > > > > c9
> > > > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > > > > 79
> > > > > VJ
> > > > > Yn
> > > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > b.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > > e.
> > > > > or
> > > > > g
> > > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > > > > 01
> > > > > 08
> > > > > d2
> > > > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > > > > Nl
> > > > > LZ
> > > > > Hj
> > > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > che.or
> > > > >
> > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > 310010
> > > > >
> > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > >
> > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text
> > > > > format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by page,
> > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where
> > > > > to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > > language matters for policy and such.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > che.or
> > > > >
> > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > 310010
> > > > >
> > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > >
> > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and
> > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Niclas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing,
> > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what contents and
> > > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China
> > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open
> > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and cultural
> > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > > forming something completely separate, and eventually forming
> > > > > > a separate
> > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > un
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f
> > > > > > 189780
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing
> > > > > > to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> > > > > > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache
> > > > > > projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are done
> > > > > > in english?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english
> > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language
> > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :) )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but
> > > > > > not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion
> > > > > > > > can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping.
> > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China
> > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because there
> > > > > > > > are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed
> > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF
> > > > > > > > members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want
> > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> > > > > > > > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
> > > > > > > > ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local
> > > > > > > > community/group will be mainly from the experienced
> > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > > > > > > > people will trust,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already
> > > > > > > > know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+
> > > > > > > > years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English,
> > > > > > > > to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status
> > > > > > > > and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not
> > > > > > > > automatically translate into trust and effective
> > > > > > > > communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that
> > > > > > > > younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where
> > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and the
> > > > > > > > Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are
> > > > > > > > more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups,
> > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
The
> > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture
> > > > > > > > where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source
> > > > > > > > projects are not command&control driven top-down
> > > > > > > > structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation
> > > > > > > > of communities". They either form, or they
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > don't.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the
> > > > > > > > Roadshow
> > > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big
> > > > > > > > barrier,
> > > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > discussion,
> > > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants,
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many
> > > > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts,
> > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of
> > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > possible?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > services.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
> > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf
> > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote
> > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with
> > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last
> > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought
> > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > > > > > > >> roadshow
> > > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was
> > > > > > > >> organized
> > > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf
> > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c4
> > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa
> > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience
> > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did
> > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there
> > > > > > > >> already
> > > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
RE: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Ted, there is no need to be a committer to review and edit content. That's the point. The only requirement is to do the work. Being a committer makes things a little easier (can commit work directly rather than rely on others) but that requires merit to be earned first.
See http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
Once you have a specific task you want to tackle let us know and we can guide you on how to tackle it.
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Ted Liu<ma...@microsoft.com>
Sent: 11/25/2015 12:22 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
Subject: RE: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a committer of comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must commit
for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers to easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
This FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated to crowd-source translation :)
notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent, he could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP, but general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
Regards,
Hervé
[1] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.apache.org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then
> send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the
> OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be
> able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage people will
> have to come from existing chinese
speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and
> > application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our
> > professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we
> > crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE
> > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading.
> > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and devs
> > here.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> > introduction on
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > f28e6
> > a29
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
>
>
>
> > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> >
> >
> >
> > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > classical
>
> english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
>
> > mailing list
> > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything
> > about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there is
> > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > m%7ca
> > 10f
> > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > sdata
> > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
>
>
>
> > [2]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > com%7
> > ca1
> > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
>
>
>
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to
> > > start with.
>
> If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
>
> > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people
> > > to contribute.>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can
> > > also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for
> > > mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or
> > > other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as
> > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
>
> retweet and socialize great articles.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because
> > > it is used
>
> by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
>
> > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > thinking more about it
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Imagine:
> > > - a few localized pages in
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > e.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > RyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing
> > > list to interact
> >
> >
> >
> > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> >
> >
> >
> > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > contact localized
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > e.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > RyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP IMHO,
> > > it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > > putting
>
> in every TLP (starting with
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > data=0
> > > 1%
> > > 7
> > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c9d7%7
> > > c
> > > 72f
> > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > U%2fKs
> > > X
> > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > e.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > c7jGf7
> > > x
> > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers
> > > in community.apache.org.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > translations on some TLPs.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > mmunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > m%7c37
> > > 3
> > > 953
> > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > sdata=
> > > O
> > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain
> > > the concept And probably
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > mmunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > c
> > > om%
> > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > b47%7c
> > > 1
> > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to
> > > point to every localization where this process is started
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should
> > > name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is
> > > > enough energy for it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > projects themselves;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a.
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&da
> > > > ta
> > > > =
> > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f2
> > > > 6a
> > > > c9
> > > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79
> > > > VJ
> > > > Yn
> > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> >
> >
> >
> > b.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.
> > > > or
> > > > g
> > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f231001
> > > > 08
> > > > d2
> > > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINl
> > > > LZ
> > > > Hj
> > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > che.or
> > > >
> > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > 310010
> > > >
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > MXsNqq
> > > >
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text
> > > > format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by page,
> > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where
> > > > to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > language matters for policy and such.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > che.or
> > > >
> > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > 310010
> > > >
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > MXsNqq
> > > >
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and
> > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Niclas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing,
> > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what contents and
> > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China
> > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open
> > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and cultural
> > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > forming something completely separate, and eventually forming
> > > > > a separate
> > > > > TLP:
> > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > un
> > > > > it
> > > > > y.
> > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f
> > > > > 189780
> > > > >
> > > > > a87344
> > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > >
> > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing
> > > > > to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> > > > > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache
> > > > > projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english
> > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language
> > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it
> > > > > :) )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but
> > > > > not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion
> > > > > > > can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping.
> > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China
> > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because there
> > > > > > > are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed
> > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF
> > > > > > > members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want
> > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> > > > > > > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
> > > > > > > ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local
> > > > > > > community/group will be mainly from the experienced
> > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > > > > > > people will trust,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already
> > > > > > > know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+
> > > > > > > years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English,
> > > > > > > to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status
> > > > > > > and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not
> > > > > > > automatically translate into trust and effective
> > > > > > > communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that
> > > > > > > younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where
> > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and the
> > > > > > > Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are
> > > > > > > more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture
> > > > > > > where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source
> > > > > > > projects are not command&control driven top-down
> > > > > > > structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation
> > > > > > > of communities". They either form, or they
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > don't.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > gap.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > possible?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> public
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > services.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuan
> > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and
> > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience
> > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did
> > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> Apache way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
RE: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a committer of comdev to review and to be able to edit the content.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must commit
for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers to easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
This FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated to crowd-source translation :)
notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent, he could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP, but general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
Regards,
Hervé
[1] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.apache.org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> The site content is public. We can get the designated content
> translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then
> send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the
> OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be
> able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage people will
> have to come from existing chinese
speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and
> > application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our
> > professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we
> > crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE
> > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading.
> > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and devs
> > here.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> > introduction on
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > f28e6
> > a29
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
>
>
>
> > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> >
> >
> >
> > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > classical
>
> english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
>
> > mailing list
> > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything
> > about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there is
> > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > m%7ca
> > 10f
> > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > sdata
> > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
>
>
>
> > [2]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > com%7
> > ca1
> > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
>
>
>
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to
> > > start with.
>
> If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
>
> > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people
> > > to contribute.>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can
> > > also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for
> > > mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or
> > > other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as
> > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
>
> retweet and socialize great articles.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because
> > > it is used
>
> by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
>
> > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > thinking more about it
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Imagine:
> > > - a few localized pages in
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > e.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > RyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing
> > > list to interact
> >
> >
> >
> > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> >
> >
> >
> > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in
> > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can
> > > contact localized
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > e.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > RyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP IMHO,
> > > it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > > putting
>
> in every TLP (starting with
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > data=0
> > > 1%
> > > 7
> > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c9d7%7
> > > c
> > > 72f
> > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > U%2fKs
> > > X
> > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > e.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > c7jGf7
> > > x
> > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers
> > > in community.apache.org.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > translations on some TLPs.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > mmunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > m%7c37
> > > 3
> > > 953
> > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > sdata=
> > > O
> > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain
> > > the concept And probably
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > mmunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > c
> > > om%
> > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > b47%7c
> > > 1
> > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to
> > > point to every localization where this process is started
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should
> > > name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is
> > > > enough energy for it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > projects themselves;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a.
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&da
> > > > ta
> > > > =
> > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f2
> > > > 6a
> > > > c9
> > > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79
> > > > VJ
> > > > Yn
> > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> >
> >
> >
> > b.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.
> > > > or
> > > > g
> > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f231001
> > > > 08
> > > > d2
> > > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINl
> > > > LZ
> > > > Hj
> > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > che.or
> > > >
> > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > 310010
> > > >
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > MXsNqq
> > > >
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text
> > > > format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by page,
> > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where
> > > > to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > language matters for policy and such.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > che.or
> > > >
> > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > 310010
> > > >
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > MXsNqq
> > > >
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and
> > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Niclas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing,
> > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what contents and
> > > > > a streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China
> > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open
> > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and cultural
> > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > forming something completely separate, and eventually forming
> > > > > a separate
> > > > > TLP:
> > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > un
> > > > > it
> > > > > y.
> > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f
> > > > > 189780
> > > > >
> > > > > a87344
> > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > >
> > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing
> > > > > to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> > > > > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache
> > > > > projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english
> > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language
> > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it
> > > > > :) )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but
> > > > > not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion
> > > > > > > can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping.
> > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China
> > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because there
> > > > > > > are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed
> > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF
> > > > > > > members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want
> > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by
> > > > > > > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from
> > > > > > > ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local
> > > > > > > community/group will be mainly from the experienced
> > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who
> > > > > > > people will trust,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already
> > > > > > > know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+
> > > > > > > years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the
> > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English,
> > > > > > > to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status
> > > > > > > and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not
> > > > > > > automatically translate into trust and effective
> > > > > > > communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that
> > > > > > > younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where
> > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and the
> > > > > > > Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are
> > > > > > > more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture
> > > > > > > where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source
> > > > > > > projects are not command&control driven top-down
> > > > > > > structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation
> > > > > > > of communities". They either form, or they
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > don't.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > gap.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > possible?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> public
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > services.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuan
> > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and
> > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience
> > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did
> > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> Apache way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must commit
for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers to
easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
This FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated to
crowd-source translation :)
notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent, he
could IMHO be voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP, but
general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
Regards,
Hervé
[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html#non-committer
Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> The site content is public. We can get the designated content translated, by
> crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then send to a Chinese
> committer to proofread and edit the site.
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
> community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be able to
> edit community site
> Then the first steps to engage people will have to come from existing
> chinese
speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > similar
> > to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and application
> > from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our professional translators
> > with
> > Ross' guidance. One question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
> > community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE members , including myself, can do
> > translation and/or proofreading. As said earlier, this would greatly
> > inspire the communities and devs here.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> > 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> > introduction on
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6
> > a29
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpnXU2tF
> > s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
>
>
>
> > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> >
> >
> >
> > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > classical
>
> english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
>
> > mailing list
> > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about
> > it,
> > since I don't speak chinese :)
> > (and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca
> > 10f
> > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
>
>
>
> > [2]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7
> > ca1
> > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sda
> > ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
>
>
>
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start
> > > with.
>
> If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
>
> > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to
> > > contribute.>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also
> > > help
> > > from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a
> > > Wechat
> > > public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social
> > > interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache
> > > fans
> > > to
>
> retweet and socialize great articles.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > > used
>
> by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
>
> > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > > Community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > thinking more about it
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Imagine:
> > > - a few localized pages in
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list
> > > to
> > > interact
> >
> >
> >
> > - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> >
> >
> >
> > > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to
> > > explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > > putting
>
> in every TLP (starting with
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=0
> > > 1%
> > > 7
> > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7
> > > c
> > > 72f
> > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKs
> > > X
> > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7
> > > x
> > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in
> > > community.apache.org.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > translations on some TLPs.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c37
> > > 3
> > > 953
> > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > O
> > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the
> > > concept And probably
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > c
> > > om%
> > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > > 1
> > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to
> > > every localization where this process is started
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name
> > > it
> > > after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> > > > energy for it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > projects themselves;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a.
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&da
> > > > ta
> > > > =
> > > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f2
> > > > 6a
> > > > c9
> > > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79
> > > > VJ
> > > > Yn
> > > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> >
> >
> >
> > b.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.
> > > > or
> > > > g
> > > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f231001
> > > > 08
> > > > d2
> > > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINl
> > > > LZ
> > > > Hj
> > > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > >
> > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > >
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > >
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> > > > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am
> > > > sure
> > > > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> > > > it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > language
> > > > matters for policy and such.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > >
> > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > >
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > >
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> > > > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Niclas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > > > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > > > streamline user experience. Ted
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > > > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > > > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers
> > > > > for
> > > > > masses
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > forming
> > > > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate
> > > > > TLP:
> > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcomm
> > > > > un
> > > > > it
> > > > > y.
> > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > > > >
> > > > > a87344
> > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > > > >
> > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > > > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > > > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > > > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > > > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > > > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > sub-projects
> > > > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > > > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hervé
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands
> > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in
> > > > > > > Shanghai.
> > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache
> > > > > > > Fans
> > > > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to
> > > > > > > hold
> > > > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not
> > > > > > > tolerate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > > form, or they
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > don't.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > gap.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > possible?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> public
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > services.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuan
> > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and
> > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience
> > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did
> > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> Apache way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
RE: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Our website is backed by SVN, no need to be a committer to submit a patch.
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
Sent: 11/24/2015 4:38 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be able to
edit community site
Then the first steps to engage people will have to come from existing chinese
speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch would
permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the similar
> to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and application
> from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our professional translators with
> Ross' guidance. One question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
> community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE members , including myself, can do
> translation and/or proofreading. As said earlier, this would greatly
> inspire the communities and devs here.
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> introduction on
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpnXU2tFs6I
> TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
>
> once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> classical
english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> mailing list
> That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about it,
> since I don't speak chinese :)
> (and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent)
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10f
> a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=v0
> 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> [2]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca1
> 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start
> > with.
If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to
> > contribute.>
> >
>
>
>
> > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help
> > from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a
> > Wechat
> > public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social
> > interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans
> > to
retweet and socialize great articles.
>
>
>
> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > used
by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > thinking more about it
> >
> >
> >
> > Imagine:
> > - a few localized pages in
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mp
> > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to
> > interact
>
> - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
>
> > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to
> > explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mp
> > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > putting
in every TLP (starting with
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%
> > 7
> > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c
> > 72f
> > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsX
> > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7x
> > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in
> > community.apache.org.
>
>
>
> > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > translations on some TLPs.
>
>
>
> > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c373
> > 953
> > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=O
> > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the
> > concept And probably
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.c
> > om%
> > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to
> > every localization where this process is started
>
>
>
> > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it
> > after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
>
>
>
> > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> >
> >
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> > > energy for it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > projects themselves;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > a.
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data
> > > =
> > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c9
> > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJ
> > > Yn
> > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
>
> b.
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.or
> > > g
> > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2
> > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZ
> > > Hj
> > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> > > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> > > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> > > it into the user experience "somehow".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since language
> > > matters for policy and such.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> > > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > WhatsApp-like
> > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > > streamline user experience. Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for
> > > > masses
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommun
> > > > it
> > > > y.
> > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > > > a87344
> > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ted,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in
> > > > > > Shanghai.
> > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold
> > > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The
> > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is
> > > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > form, or they
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > don't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > slightly differently.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an
> > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > gap.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > > > >> be
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > possible?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > > > >> public
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > services.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuansh
> > > > > >> e.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> org
> > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > >> 408
> > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > >> 300
> > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and
> > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > >> pac
> > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > >> 300
> > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data
> > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > >> pac
> > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > >> itt
> > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > >> 006
> > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > >> itt
> > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > >> 006
> > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > >> -
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > >> che
> > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > >> 457
> > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > >> che
> > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > >> home page
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who
> > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not
> > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing
> > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the
> > > > > >> Apache way.
>
>
>
> > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> >
> >
> >
>
>
答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
The site content is public. We can get the designated content translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
发送时间: 2015/11/25 8:38
收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be able to
edit community site
Then the first steps to engage people will have to come from existing chinese
speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch would
permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the similar
> to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and application
> from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our professional translators with
> Ross' guidance. One question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
> community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE members , including myself, can do
> translation and/or proofreading. As said earlier, this would greatly
> inspire the communities and devs here.
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> introduction on
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpnXU2tFs6I
> TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
>
> once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> classical
english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> mailing list
> That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about it,
> since I don't speak chinese :)
> (and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent)
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10f
> a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=v0
> 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> [2]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca1
> 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start
> > with.
If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to
> > contribute.>
> >
>
>
>
> > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help
> > from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a
> > Wechat
> > public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social
> > interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans
> > to
retweet and socialize great articles.
>
>
>
> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > used
by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > thinking more about it
> >
> >
> >
> > Imagine:
> > - a few localized pages in
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mp
> > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to
> > interact
>
> - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
>
> > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to
> > explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mp
> > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > putting
in every TLP (starting with
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%
> > 7
> > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c
> > 72f
> > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsX
> > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7x
> > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in
> > community.apache.org.
>
>
>
> > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > translations on some TLPs.
>
>
>
> > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c373
> > 953
> > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=O
> > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the
> > concept And probably
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.c
> > om%
> > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to
> > every localization where this process is started
>
>
>
> > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it
> > after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
>
>
>
> > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> >
> >
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> > > energy for it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > projects themselves;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > a.
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data
> > > =
> > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c9
> > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJ
> > > Yn
> > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
>
> b.
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.or
> > > g
> > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2
> > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZ
> > > Hj
> > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> > > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> > > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> > > it into the user experience "somehow".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since language
> > > matters for policy and such.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> > > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > WhatsApp-like
> > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > > streamline user experience. Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for
> > > > masses
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommun
> > > > it
> > > > y.
> > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > > > a87344
> > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ted,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in
> > > > > > Shanghai.
> > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold
> > > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The
> > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is
> > > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > form, or they
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > don't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > slightly differently.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an
> > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > gap.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > > > >> be
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > possible?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > > > >> public
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > services.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuansh
> > > > > >> e.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> org
> > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > >> 408
> > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > >> 300
> > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and
> > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > >> pac
> > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > >> 300
> > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data
> > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > >> pac
> > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > >> itt
> > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > >> 006
> > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > >> itt
> > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > >> 006
> > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > >> -
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > >> che
> > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > >> 457
> > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > >> che
> > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > >> home page
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who
> > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not
> > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing
> > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the
> > > > > >> Apache way.
>
>
>
> > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be able to
edit community site
Then the first steps to engage people will have to come from existing chinese
speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch would
permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the similar
> to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and application
> from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our professional translators with
> Ross' guidance. One question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS
> community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE members , including myself, can do
> translation and/or proofreading. As said earlier, this would greatly
> inspire the communities and devs here.
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
> introduction on
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpnXU2tFs6I
> TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
>
> once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> classical
english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> mailing list
> That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about it,
> since I don't speak chinese :)
> (and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent)
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10f
> a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=v0
> 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> [2]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca1
> 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
>
> > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start
> > with.
If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to
> > contribute.>
> >
>
>
>
> > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help
> > from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a
> > Wechat
> > public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social
> > interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans
> > to
retweet and socialize great articles.
>
>
>
> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > used
by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
>
>
>
> > thinking more about it
> >
> >
> >
> > Imagine:
> > - a few localized pages in
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mp
> > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to
> > interact
>
> - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
>
> > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to
> > explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mp
> > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about
> > putting
in every TLP (starting with
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%
> > 7
> > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c
> > 72f
> > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsX
> > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&da
> > t
> > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac
> > 9d7
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7x
> > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in
> > community.apache.org.
>
>
>
> > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > translations on some TLPs.
>
>
>
> > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c373
> > 953
> > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=O
> > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the
> > concept And probably
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.c
> > om%
> > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to
> > every localization where this process is started
>
>
>
> > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it
> > after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
>
>
>
> > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> >
> >
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> > > energy for it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > projects themselves;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > a.
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data
> > > =
> > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > c9
> > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJ
> > > Yn
> > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
>
> b.
>
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.or
> > > g
> > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > d2
> > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZ
> > > Hj
> > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> > > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> > > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> > > it into the user experience "somehow".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since language
> > > matters for policy and such.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> > > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > WhatsApp-like
> > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > > streamline user experience. Ted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for
> > > > masses
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommun
> > > > it
> > > > y.
> > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > > > a87344
> > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ted,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in
> > > > > > Shanghai.
> > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold
> > > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The
> > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is
> > > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > > form, or they
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > don't.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > slightly differently.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an
> > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > gap.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > > > >> be
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > possible?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > > > >> public
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > services.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuansh
> > > > > >> e.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> org
> > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > >> 408
> > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > >> 300
> > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and
> > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > >> pac
> > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > >> 300
> > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data
> > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > >> pac
> > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > >> itt
> > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > >> 006
> > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > >> itt
> > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > >> 006
> > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > >> -
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > >> che
> > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > >> 457
> > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > >> che
> > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > >> home page
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who
> > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not
> > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing
> > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the
> > > > > >> Apache way.
>
>
>
> > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> >
> >
> >
>
>
答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading. As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and devs here.
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<ma...@free.fr>
发送时间: 2015/11/22 0:11
收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
introduction on https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpnXU2tFs6ITD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from classical
english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language mailing list
That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about it,
since I don't speak chinese :)
(and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent)
Regards,
Hervé
[1] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=v08GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
[2] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start with.
> If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and it is
> very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to contribute.
>
> Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help
> from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a Wechat
> public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social
> interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> retweet and socialize great articles.
> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is used
> by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information. This
> is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> thinking more about it
>
> Imagine:
> - a few localized pages in
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7
> pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to
> interact
- as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to
> explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7
> pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about putting
> in every TLP (starting with
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%7
> c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f
> 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsXoeT
> kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7xoXS
> RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in
> community.apache.org.
> Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> translations on some TLPs.
> Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c373953
> 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=OlA9
> hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the concept
> And probably
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%
> 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sd
> ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to every
> localization where this process is started
> Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it
> after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
>
> > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> > energy for it.
> >
> > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > projects themselves;
> >
> > a.
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=
> > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9
> > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn
> > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
b.
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org
> > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHj
> > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> >
> > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> > it into the user experience "somehow".
> >
> > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > especially since I think peer review is very important, since language
> > matters for policy and such.
> >
> > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> >
> > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > WhatsApp-like
> > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > semi-busy list from the start.
> >
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > streamline user experience. Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for
> > > masses
> > >
> > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > >
> > > What about creating localized content in
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > > a87344
> > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > >
> > > Because I don't see:
> > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > >
> > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > >
> > > > Ted,
> > > >
> > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > >
> > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > >
> > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > >
> > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > >
> > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > >
> > >
> > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold
> > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > >
> > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The
> > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted,
> > > > > 2 things...
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is
> > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > form, or they
> > >
> > >
> > > don't.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > >
> > >
> > > slightly differently.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an
> > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > >
> > >
> > > gap.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > of single big one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Niclas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > > >> be
> > >
> > >
> > > possible?
> > >
> > >
> > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > > >> public
> > >
> > >
> > > services.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> org
> > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > >> b6ef
> > > > >> 408
> > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > >> J2iF
> > > > >> CsX
> > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fwww
> > > > >> .ka
> > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > >> 98c2
> > > > >> 300
> > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > >> in China.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason
> > > > >> Dai.
> > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fs.a
> > > > >> pac
> > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > >> 98c2
> > > > >> 300
> > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > >> data
> > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fs.a
> > > > >> pac
> > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > >> aaa4
> > > > >> b8a
> > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > >> itt
> > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > >> dl%4
> > > > >> 006
> > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > >> 6f1
> > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > >> WU37
> > > > >> CWt
> > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > >> itt
> > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > >> dl%4
> > > > >> 006
> > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > >> 6f1
> > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > >> dX0
> > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > >> archives)
> > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > >> -
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fapa
> > > > >> che
> > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > >> 0084
> > > > >> 457
> > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fapa
> > > > >> che
> > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > >> 8a31
> > > > >> 4f8
> > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > >> home page
> > > > >>
> > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who
> > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not
> > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing
> > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the
> > > > >> Apache way.
> > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
>
>
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little
introduction on community.apache.org, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from classical
english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language mailing list
That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about it,
since I don't speak chinese :)
(and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent)
Regards,
Hervé
[1] http://community.apache.org/newcomers/
[2] http://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start with.
> If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and it is
> very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to contribute.
>
> Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help
> from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a Wechat
> public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social
> interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> retweet and socialize great articles.
> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is used
> by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information. This
> is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
> thinking more about it
>
> Imagine:
> - a few localized pages in
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7
> pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to
> interact
- as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to
> explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7
> pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about putting
> in every TLP (starting with
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%7
> c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f
> 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsXoeT
> kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&dat
> a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7
> %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7xoXS
> RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in
> community.apache.org.
> Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> translations on some TLPs.
> Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c373953
> 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=OlA9
> hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the concept
> And probably
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a
> pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%
> 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sd
> ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to every
> localization where this process is started
> Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it
> after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
>
> > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> > energy for it.
> >
> > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > projects themselves;
> >
> > a.
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=
> > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9
> > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn
> > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
b.
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org
> > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHj
> > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> >
> > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> > it into the user experience "somehow".
> >
> > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> > especially since I think peer review is very important, since language
> > matters for policy and such.
> >
> > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> >
> > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > WhatsApp-like
> > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> > semi-busy list from the start.
> >
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > streamline user experience. Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for
> > > masses
> > >
> > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > >
> > > What about creating localized content in
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > > a87344
> > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > >
> > > Because I don't see:
> > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > >
> > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > >
> > > > Ted,
> > > >
> > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > >
> > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > >
> > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > >
> > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > >
> > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > >
> > >
> > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold
> > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > >
> > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The
> > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > >
> > > > > Ted,
> > > > > 2 things...
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is
> > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > > form, or they
> > >
> > >
> > > don't.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > >
> > >
> > > slightly differently.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an
> > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > >
> > >
> > > gap.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > > of single big one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Niclas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > > >> be
> > >
> > >
> > > possible?
> > >
> > >
> > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > > >> public
> > >
> > >
> > > services.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> org
> > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > > >> b6ef
> > > > >> 408
> > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > > >> J2iF
> > > > >> CsX
> > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fwww
> > > > >> .ka
> > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > >> 98c2
> > > > >> 300
> > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > > >> in China.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason
> > > > >> Dai.
> > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fs.a
> > > > >> pac
> > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > > >> 98c2
> > > > >> 300
> > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > >> data
> > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fs.a
> > > > >> pac
> > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > > >> aaa4
> > > > >> b8a
> > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > >> itt
> > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > >> dl%4
> > > > >> 006
> > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > >> 6f1
> > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > > >> WU37
> > > > >> CWt
> > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > >> itt
> > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > > >> dl%4
> > > > >> 006
> > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > >> 6f1
> > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > >> dX0
> > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > > >> archives)
> > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > >> -
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fapa
> > > > >> che
> > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > > >> 0084
> > > > >> 457
> > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > > >> fapa
> > > > >> che
> > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > > >> 8a31
> > > > >> 4f8
> > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > >> home page
> > > > >>
> > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who
> > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not
> > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing
> > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the
> > > > >> Apache way.
> > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
>
>
RE: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Exactly, it's more than just content translation. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Han [mailto:luke.hq@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 10:18 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
One more important thing I would like to emphasize here is there are many people are consulting me, our members, other ASF members in China about how to not only contribute code but also bring some projects to ASF. That's I would like to say more localization content, events, meetups will help a lot to engage the local community to contribute more to ASF.
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Understood.
>
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:06
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it
> > is used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> > This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
>
> Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
> Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
>
> It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
>
Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>.
>>
>> I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation
>> project and trust that you were also aware of the frustrations from both
>> side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture
difference).
> Yes. I have previously run a development group in China as well. I was
> very impressed in the Kylin project by how little the problems of language
> seemed to be. Of course, I might not see the problems and there is always
> the problem of silent failures from people who didn't show up and describe
> their problems because of the English-only nature.
> Whether I was a good mentor, I should not say. Ask Luke or another of hte
> project members.
Hi Ted, you and our other mentors are great samples about how mentor and
incubating is so important for new project to ASF. We can't graduated and
grow this community without you and all our mentors, IPMC and others to help
and coach.
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One more important thing I would like to emphasize here is there are many
> people are consulting me, our members, other ASF members in China about how
> to not only contribute code but also bring some projects to ASF. That's I
> would like to say more localization content, events, meetups will help a
> lot to engage the local community to contribute more to ASF.
>
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Understood.
>>
>>
>> Ted
>> ________________________________
>> 发件人: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
>> 发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:06
>> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
>> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
>> Community
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
>> > used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
>> information.
>> > This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>> >
>>
>> Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
>> Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
>>
>> It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
>>
>
>
Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Lei Chang <ch...@gmail.com>.
Think so too. Incubation is a good area that will motivate more people to
contribute to Apache.
There are a lot of open source projects from china started on github, and
some are very interesting, but they don't know how to make it an Apache
project. And I often get a lot questions around how Apache works, how to
become a committer, how to get into incubation et al. To make this happen
can potentially involve these people much easily.
Cheers
Lei Chang
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 1:24 AM, Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>
wrote:
> Incubation is one area where I think we can do more than just localize
> content. I think mentors who are at least aware of Chinese culture are
> needed.
>
> We, ComDev, should be a good place to help b build those mentoring teams.
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ________________________________
> From: Luke Han<ma...@gmail.com>
> Sent: 11/21/2015 6:17 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
>
> One more important thing I would like to emphasize here is there are many
> people are consulting me, our members, other ASF members in China about how
> to not only contribute code but also bring some projects to ASF. That's I
> would like to say more localization content, events, meetups will help a
> lot to engage the local community to contribute more to ASF.
>
>
>
> Best Regards!
> ---------------------
>
> Luke Han
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Understood.
> >
> >
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > 发件人: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
> > 发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:06
> > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > > used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> information.
> > > This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > >
> >
> > Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
> > Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
> >
> > It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
> >
>
RE: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Incubation is one area where I think we can do more than just localize content. I think mentors who are at least aware of Chinese culture are needed.
We, ComDev, should be a good place to help b build those mentoring teams.
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Luke Han<ma...@gmail.com>
Sent: 11/21/2015 6:17 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
One more important thing I would like to emphasize here is there are many
people are consulting me, our members, other ASF members in China about how
to not only contribute code but also bring some projects to ASF. That's I
would like to say more localization content, events, meetups will help a
lot to engage the local community to contribute more to ASF.
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Understood.
>
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:06
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> > This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
>
> Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
> Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
>
> It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
>
Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Luke Han <lu...@gmail.com>.
One more important thing I would like to emphasize here is there are many
people are consulting me, our members, other ASF members in China about how
to not only contribute code but also bring some projects to ASF. That's I
would like to say more localization content, events, meetups will help a
lot to engage the local community to contribute more to ASF.
Best Regards!
---------------------
Luke Han
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Understood.
>
>
> Ted
> ________________________________
> 发件人: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
> 发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:06
> 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
> 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> > used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> > This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
>
> Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
> Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
>
> It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
>
答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Understood.
Ted
________________________________
发件人: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
发送时间: 2015/11/21 22:06
收件人: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Got it. Will work with Sally for it. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 1:20 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
True that any channel can be used for dissemination BUT it cannot use the apache brand unless managed by Apache itself. In the of announcements etc that management will happen through our Marketing team. Though I would suggest this list for development of the ideas etc.
Ted, you already know Sally as you worked with her for the roadshow. Before creating an Apache branded WeChat channel we need to ensure Sally is prepared.
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
Sent: 11/21/2015 6:06 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it
> is used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
True that any channel can be used for dissemination BUT it cannot use the apache brand unless managed by Apache itself. In the of announcements etc that management will happen through our Marketing team. Though I would suggest this list for development of the ideas etc.
Ted, you already know Sally as you worked with her for the roadshow. Before creating an Apache branded WeChat channel we need to ensure Sally is prepared.
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Ted Dunning<ma...@gmail.com>
Sent: 11/21/2015 6:06 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<ma...@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is
> used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information.
> This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
>
Note that you can use ANY channel or medium to inform people about how
Apache works or tell them what projects do or share experiences.
It is the development that has to be on the official lists.
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start with. If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to contribute.
Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans to retweet and socialize great articles.
p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is used by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
thinking more about it
Imagine:
- a few localized pages in https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to interact
- as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about putting in every TLP (starting with https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d and https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in community.apache.org.
Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more translations on some TLPs.
Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org + https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=OlA9hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the concept And probably https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to every localization where this process is started
Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough
> energy for it.
>
> There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> projects themselves;
> a. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> b. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d
> c.
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
>
> As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format,
> and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link
> it into the user experience "somehow".
>
> That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,
> especially since I think peer review is very important, since language
> matters for policy and such.
>
> *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or
> g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010
> 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq
> O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from
> there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
>
> For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> WhatsApp-like
> app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be
> directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a
> semi-busy list from the start.
>
>
> Niclas
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here
> > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > streamline user experience. Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or
> > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source
> > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for
> > masses
> >
> > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > staying short, I'm not convinced
> >
> > What about creating localized content in
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780
> > a87344
> > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs
> > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to
> > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining
> > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
> > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> >
> > Because I don't see:
> > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I
> > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our
> > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> >
> > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted
> > at helping people work with other TLPs
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > Ted,
> > >
> > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > >
> > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > >
> > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > >
> > > What good thing is not happening?
> > >
> > > What bad thing is happening?
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > >
> > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members,
> > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work
> > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation
> > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from
> > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> >
> > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> >
> > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > Wechat social group
> > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold
> > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of
> > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into
> > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an
> > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > >
> > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the
> > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way
> > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough
> > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The
> > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the
> > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China -
> > > > Apache China Community
> > > >
> > > > Ted,
> > > > 2 things...
> > > >
> > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > >
> > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects
> > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is
> > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either
> > > > form, or they
> >
> > don't.
> >
> > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow
> > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and
> > > > channel your enthusiasm
> >
> > slightly differently.
> >
> > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier,
> > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an
> > > > additional tool to bridge this
> >
> > gap.
> >
> > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for
> > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache
> > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > > >
> > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead
> > > > of single big one.
> > > >
> > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > >
> > > > Niclas
> > > >
> > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > >>
> > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache
> > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > >> be
> >
> > possible?
> >
> > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > >>
> > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and
> > > >> public
> >
> > services.
> >
> > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> > > >> org
> > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> > > >> b6ef
> > > >> 408
> > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C
> > > >> J2iF
> > > >> CsX
> > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > >> fwww
> > > >> .ka
> > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > >> 98c2
> > > >> 300
> > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open
> > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over
> > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache
> > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd
> > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow
> > > >> in China.
> > > >>
> > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized
> > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > >>
> > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > >> fs.a
> > > >> pac
> > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d
> > > >> 98c2
> > > >> 300
> > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > >> data
> > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > >> fs.a
> > > >> pac
> > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407
> > > >> aaa4
> > > >> b8a
> > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s
> > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > >> 2ftw
> > > >> itt
> > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > >> dl%4
> > > >> 006
> > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98
> > > >> 8bf8
> > > >> 6f1
> > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik
> > > >> WU37
> > > >> CWt
> > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%
> > > >> 2ftw
> > > >> itt
> > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte
> > > >> dl%4
> > > >> 006
> > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98
> > > >> 8bf8
> > > >> 6f1
> > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC
> > > >> 7CWh
> > > >> dX0
> > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and
> > > >> archives)
> > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > >> -
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > >> fapa
> > > >> che
> > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23
> > > >> 0084
> > > >> 457
> > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2
> > > >> fapa
> > > >> che
> > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b
> > > >> 8a31
> > > >> 4f8
> > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=
> > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > >> home page
> > > >>
> > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who
> > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not
> > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already
> > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing
> > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
> > > >>
> > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Ted Liu
> > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
thinking more about it
Imagine:
- a few localized pages in community.apache.org about tooling, culture and so
on + mailing list to interact
- as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little localized
page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to explain the
purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized community.apache.org to
get help to interact with the TLP
IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about putting
in every TLP (starting with www.apache.org and incubator.apache.org) a
localized pointer to localized helpers in community.apache.org.
Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more translations
on some TLPs.
Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
http://community.apache.org/china.html to explain the concept
And probably http://community.apache.org/international.html to point to every
localization where this process is started
Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it
after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough energy
> for it.
>
> There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the projects
> themselves;
> a. www.apache.org
> b. incubator.apache.org
> c. community.apache.org
>
> As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format, and
> should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
> Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link it
> into the user experience "somehow".
>
> That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work, especially
> since I think peer review is very important, since language matters for
> policy and such.
>
> *I* am also very positive to alternate language community.apache.org
> mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from there
> it should be possible to gauge the interest.
>
> For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese WhatsApp-like
> app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be directed
> to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a semi-busy list from
> the start.
>
>
> Niclas
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here to
> > help translate. But need to consider what contents and a streamline user
> > experience. Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
> >
> > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
> >
> > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or
> > "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able
> > currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
> >
> > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> > staying short, I'm not convinced
> >
> > What about creating localized content in
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.
> > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780a87344
> > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1RvsCGO3%2
> > fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to dedicated
> > non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining community
> > aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact
> > that Apache projects are done in english?
> >
> > Because I don't see:
> > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say
> > it because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common
> > convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> >
> > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at
> > helping people work with other TLPs
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hervé
> >
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > Ted,
> > >
> > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > >
> > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > >
> > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > >
> > > What good thing is not happening?
> > >
> > > What bad thing is happening?
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > >
> > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > > > members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > > > voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents
> > > > and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the
> > > > local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese
> > > > ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust,
> >
> > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> >
> > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > > Wechat social group
> > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > > > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > > > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > > > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > > > generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > >
> > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> > > > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
> > > > at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> > > > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> > > > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> > > > community/group can contribute.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ted
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > > China Community
> > > >
> > > > Ted,
> > > > 2 things...
> > > >
> > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > >
> > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are
> > > > not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > > > little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they
> >
> > don't.
> >
> > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > > > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > > > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
> > > > a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope
> > > > that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm
> >
> > slightly differently.
> >
> > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> > > > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > > > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> > > > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this
> >
> > gap.
> >
> > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > > > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > > > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > > > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> > > > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > > > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > > >
> > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > > > single big one.
> > > >
> > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > >
> > > > Niclas
> > > >
> > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > >>
> > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > > >> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be
> >
> > possible?
> >
> > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > >>
> > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > > >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public
> >
> > services.
> >
> > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> > > >> org
> > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef
> > > >> 408
> > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iF
> > > >> CsX
> > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww
> > > >> .ka
> > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> > > >> 300
> > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > > >> =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > > >> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > > >> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> > > >> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> > > >> between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> > > >> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was
> > > >> on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot
> > > >> the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> > > >>
> > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > > >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> > > >> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> > > >> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > >>
> > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> > > >> pac
> > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> > > >> 300
> > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> > > >> pac
> > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4
> > > >> b8a
> > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > > >> =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> > > >> itt
> > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> > > >> 006
> > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf8
> > > >> 6f1
> > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37
> > > >> CWt
> > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> > > >> itt
> > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> > > >> 006
> > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf8
> > > >> 6f1
> > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWh
> > > >> dX0
> > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > >> -
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> > > >> che
> > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084
> > > >> 457
> > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M
> > > >> 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> > > >> che
> > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a31
> > > >> 4f8
> > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1Dd
> > > >> EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > >> home page
> > > >>
> > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > > >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > > >> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> > > >> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > > >> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > > >> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > > >> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > > >> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> > > >> and the fans in China following the Apache way.
> > > >>
> > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > > >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > > >> would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Ted Liu
> > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> > > >> of KAIYUANSHE
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough energy
for it.
There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the projects
themselves;
a. www.apache.org
b. incubator.apache.org
c. community.apache.org
As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format, and
should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link it
into the user experience "somehow".
That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work, especially
since I think peer review is very important, since language matters for
policy and such.
*I* am also very positive to alternate language community.apache.org
mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from there
it should be possible to gauge the interest.
For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese WhatsApp-like
app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be directed
to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a semi-busy list from
the start.
Niclas
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here to
> help translate. But need to consider what contents and a streamline user
> experience. Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> Localized content is a great suggestion.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or
> "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able
> currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
>
> But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> staying short, I'm not convinced
>
> What about creating localized content in
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780a87344cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1RvsCGO3%2fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d
> , pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to
> deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
>
> Because I don't see:
> - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say
> it because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common
> convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
>
> But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at
> helping people work with other TLPs
>
> WDYT?
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > Ted,
> >
> > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> >
> > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> >
> > What exactly do you want to happen?
> >
> > What good thing is not happening?
> >
> > What bad thing is happening?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Niclas,
> > >
> > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > > members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > > voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents
> > > and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the
> > > local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese
> > > ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust,
> instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > >
> > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > Wechat social group
> > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > > generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > >
> > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> > > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
> > > at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> > > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> > > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> > > community/group can contribute.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > Ted,
> > > 2 things...
> > >
> > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > >
> > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are
> > > not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > > little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they
> don't.
> > >
> > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
> > > a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope
> > > that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm
> slightly differently.
> > >
> > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> > > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> > > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this
> gap.
> > >
> > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> > > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > >
> > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > > single big one.
> > >
> > > Keep up the positive work.
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > >>
> > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > >> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be
> possible?
> > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > >>
> > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public
> services.
> > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> > >> org
> > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef
> > >> 408
> > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iF
> > >> CsX
> > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww
> > >> .ka
> > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> > >> 300
> > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > >> =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > >> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > >> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> > >> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> > >> between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> > >> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was
> > >> on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot
> > >> the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> > >>
> > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> > >> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> > >> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > >>
> > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> > >> pac
> > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> > >> 300
> > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> > >> pac
> > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4
> > >> b8a
> > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > >> =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> > >> itt
> > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> > >> 006
> > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf8
> > >> 6f1
> > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37
> > >> CWt
> > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> > >> itt
> > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> > >> 006
> > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf8
> > >> 6f1
> > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWh
> > >> dX0
> > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > >> -
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> > >> che
> > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084
> > >> 457
> > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M
> > >> 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> > >> che
> > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a31
> > >> 4f8
> > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1Dd
> > >> EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > >> home page
> > >>
> > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > >> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> > >> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > >> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > >> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > >> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > >> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> > >> and the fans in China following the Apache way.
> > >>
> > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > >> would be greatly appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ted Liu
> > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> > >> of KAIYUANSHE
>
>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a streamline user experience. Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Localized content is a great suggestion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP: staying short, I'm not convinced
What about creating localized content in https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780a87344cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1RvsCGO3%2fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
Because I don't see:
- how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
- how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
WDYT?
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> Ted,
>
> It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
>
> There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
>
> What exactly do you want to happen?
>
> What good thing is not happening?
>
> What bad thing is happening?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Niclas,
> >
> > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents
> > and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the
> > local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese
> > ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
> >
> > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > Wechat social group
> > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > generation contributors would not tolerate.
> >
> > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
> > at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> > community/group can contribute.
> >
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > Ted,
> > 2 things...
> >
> > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> >
> > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are
> > not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
> >
> > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
> > a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope
> > that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
> >
> > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
> >
> > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> >
> > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > single big one.
> >
> > Keep up the positive work.
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >>
> >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> >> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >>
> >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> >> org
> >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef
> >> 408
> >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iF
> >> CsX
> >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww
> >> .ka
> >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> >> 300
> >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> >> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> >> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> >> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> >> between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> >> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was
> >> on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot
> >> the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> >>
> >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> >> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> >> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> >>
> >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> >> pac
> >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> >> 300
> >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> >> pac
> >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4
> >> b8a
> >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> >> itt
> >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> >> 006
> >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf8
> >> 6f1
> >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37
> >> CWt
> >> EOXwqg%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> >> itt
> >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> >> 006
> >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf8
> >> 6f1
> >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWh
> >> dX0
> >> GFRwPs%3d
> >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> >> -
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> >> che
> >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084
> >> 457
> >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M
> >> 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> >> che
> >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a31
> >> 4f8
> >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1Dd
> >> EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> >> home page
> >>
> >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> >> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> >> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> >> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> >> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> >> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> >> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> >> and the fans in China following the Apache way.
> >>
> >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> >> would be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted Liu
> >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> >> of KAIYUANSHE
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Localized content is a great suggestion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP: staying short, I'm not convinced
What about creating localized content in https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780a87344cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1RvsCGO3%2fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
Because I don't see:
- how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
- how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
WDYT?
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> Ted,
>
> It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
>
> There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
>
> What exactly do you want to happen?
>
> What good thing is not happening?
>
> What bad thing is happening?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Niclas,
> >
> > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents
> > and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the
> > local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese
> > ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
> >
> > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > Wechat social group
> > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > generation contributors would not tolerate.
> >
> > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
> > at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> > community/group can contribute.
> >
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > China Community
> >
> > Ted,
> > 2 things...
> >
> > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> >
> > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are
> > not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
> >
> > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
> > a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope
> > that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
> >
> > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
> >
> > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> >
> > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > single big one.
> >
> > Keep up the positive work.
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >>
> >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> >> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >>
> >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> >> org
> >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef
> >> 408
> >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iF
> >> CsX
> >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww
> >> .ka
> >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> >> 300
> >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> >> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> >> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> >> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> >> between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> >> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was
> >> on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot
> >> the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> >>
> >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> >> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> >> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> >>
> >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> >> pac
> >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> >> 300
> >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> >> pac
> >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4
> >> b8a
> >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> >> =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> >> itt
> >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> >> 006
> >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf8
> >> 6f1
> >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37
> >> CWt
> >> EOXwqg%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> >> itt
> >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> >> 006
> >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf8
> >> 6f1
> >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWh
> >> dX0
> >> GFRwPs%3d
> >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> >> -
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> >> che
> >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084
> >> 457
> >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M
> >> 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> >> che
> >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a31
> >> 4f8
> >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1Dd
> >> EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> >> home page
> >>
> >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> >> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> >> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> >> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> >> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> >> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> >> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> >> and the fans in China following the Apache way.
> >>
> >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> >> would be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted Liu
> >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> >> of KAIYUANSHE
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Hervé BOUTEMY <he...@free.fr>.
I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or
"country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able
currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming something
completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP: staying short, I'm
not convinced
What about creating localized content in http://community.apache.org/ ,
pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal
with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
Because I don't see:
- how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
- how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say it
because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common
convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects (taking
the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at helping people
work with other TLPs
WDYT?
Regards,
Hervé
Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> Ted,
>
> It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
>
> There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
>
> What exactly do you want to happen?
>
> What good thing is not happening?
>
> What bad thing is happening?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Niclas,
> >
> > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed at
> > ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a
> > community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and
> > action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would care
> > and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why a group
> > of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want
> > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the
> > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and
> > enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the
> > experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who people
> > will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
> >
> > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how difficult
> > it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. One recent
> > example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The wait
> > of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger generation
> > contributors would not tolerate.
> >
> > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of
> > community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at
> > infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and events
> > (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are language and
> > non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China community/group can
> > contribute.
> >
> >
> > Ted
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> > Community
> >
> > Ted,
> > 2 things...
> >
> > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> >
> > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But
> > the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control
> > driven top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation
> > of communities". They either form, or they don't.
> >
> > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing
> > grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a
> > more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a
> > government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate
> > the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
> >
> > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have
> > first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in
> > the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage
> > where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
> >
> > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking,
> > presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a
> > peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in
> > this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to
> > participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will
> > spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > projects.
> >
> > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single
> > big one.
> >
> > Keep up the positive work.
> >
> > Niclas
> >
> >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> >>
> >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> >> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> >>
> >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities
> >> and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org
> >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408
> >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFCsX
> >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ka
> >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=KN
> >> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first ground-up
> >> open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and
> >> technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise
> >> members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international
> >> OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The
> >> last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought
> >> it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in
> >> China.
> >>
> >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> >> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> >> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> >> roadshow details here.
> >>
> >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=m1
> >> ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a
> >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX
> >> 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f1
> >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37CWt
> >> EOXwqg%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f1
> >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0
> >> GFRwPs%3d
> >> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> >> -
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4gu
> >> 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f8
> >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAF
> >> N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> >> home page
> >>
> >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this
> >> roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were
> >> unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers,
> >> including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> >> developers and users, who are willing to join the China community
> >> steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents,
> >> projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in
> >> China following the Apache way.
> >>
> >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would
> >> be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted Liu
> >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member of
> >> KAIYUANSHE
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Ted,
It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
What exactly do you want to happen?
What good thing is not happening?
What bad thing is happening?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Niclas,
>
> It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
>
> Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans Wechat social group (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
>
> The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
>
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
>
> Ted,
> 2 things...
>
> 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
>
> 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
>
> I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
>
> Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
>
> My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
>
> Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single big one.
>
> Keep up the positive work.
>
> Niclas
>
>> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>>
>> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
>> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
>> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>>
>> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
>> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
>> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities
>> and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
>> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org
>> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408
>> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFCsX
>> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ka
>> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=KN
>> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first ground-up
>> open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and
>> technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise
>> members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
>>
>> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
>> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
>> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
>> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
>> roadshow details here.
>>
>> - ASF "Foundation" blog
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
>> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=m1
>> ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
>> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a
>> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX
>> 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
>> - @TheASF Twitter feed
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f1
>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37CWt
>> EOXwqg%3d<
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
>> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
>> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f1
>> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0
>> GFRwPs%3d
>> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
>> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
>> -
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
>> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4gu
>> 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
>> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f8
>> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAF
>> N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
>> home page
>>
>> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
>> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this
>> roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were
>> unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers,
>> including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
>> developers and users, who are willing to join the China community
>> steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents,
>> projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
>>
>> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
>> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would
>> be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Ted Liu
>> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member of
>> KAIYUANSHE
>>
RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
Community
Posted by Ted Liu <te...@microsoft.com>.
Hi Niclas,
It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here. Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust, instead of any individual new to ASF.
Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans Wechat social group (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Ted,
2 things...
1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they don't.
I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single big one.
Keep up the positive work.
Niclas
On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>
> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible?
> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>
> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities
> and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.org
> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408
> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iFCsX
> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ka
> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=KN
> IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first ground-up
> open source alliance chartered to promote open source governance and
> technologies in China and Asia with over 50 community and enterprise
> members now) wish to bridge the gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
>
> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> roadshow details here.
>
> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300
> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=m1
> ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apac
> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a
> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX
> 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >
> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f1
> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37CWt
> EOXwqg%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitt
> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4006
> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f1
> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0
> GFRwPs%3d
> >
> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> -
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457
> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M4gu
> 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache
> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f8
> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAF
> N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> home page
>
> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this
> roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were
> unaware of the events. So far, there already are many volunteers,
> including Apache members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> developers and users, who are willing to join the China community
> steering committee and working groups to help grow the talents,
> projects and community in China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
>
> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Ted Liu
> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member of
> KAIYUANSHE
>
Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <he...@gmail.com>.
Ted,
2 things...
1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But
the ASF and many other open source projects are not command&control driven
top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation of
communities". They either form, or they don't.
I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing
grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a
more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a
government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate the
difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.
Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have
first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in the
past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where
this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.
My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking,
presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a
peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in
this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to participate,
as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.
Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single
big one.
Keep up the positive work.
Niclas
On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <te...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>
> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible? Please
> see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>
> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, such
> as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities and
> enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE (www.kaiyuanshe.org<
> http://www.kaiyuanshe.org>, the first ground-up open source alliance
> chartered to promote open source governance and technologies in China and
> Asia with over 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009
> in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF
> engagement through another roadshow in China.
>
> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> roadshow details here.
>
> - ASF "Foundation" blog http://s.apache.org/q2L<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BX9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >
> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> https://twitter.com/TheASF/status/664920266397646848<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0GFRwPs%3d
> >
> - announce@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> (and archives)
> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> - http://apache.org/<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1DdEAFN4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> home page
>
> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a China
> community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this roadshow
> and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were unaware of the
> events. So far, there already are many volunteers, including Apache
> members, PMC members, committers, contributors, developers and users, who
> are willing to join the China community steering committee and working
> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in China and bridge
> between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
>
> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in China
> or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> Ted Liu
> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> Co-founding member of KAIYUANSHE
>