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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> on 2007/03/15 17:43:31 UTC
Autoverioning Advice Needed
Hi all,
I am hoping someone here can advise me on how best to implement
autoversioning for my environment. The best thing you could do for me
immediately is point me to a really informative read discussing
subversion/webdav/autoversioning/windows clients, et al.
Any good links you can recommend? I have looked through the nightly
red bean book, and it is a good start, but I want to read more in
depth before I delve too much deeper...
What I am looking at is basically this:
We run subversion 1.3 on a windows/apache server and we have limited
it's availability to the techies in our company. We now have decided
to move the entire company away from VSS to this. The problem is that
the rest of the company is decidedly NOT tech savvy so we need a way
for them to use subversion without getting flustered or confused, or
breaking our repo.
Currently the techs use TortoiseSVN. We were hoping for something a
little more seemless. We enforce locking on all files, including
text, doc, etc, so whatever solution I go with needs to be able to
lock a file automatically and unlock and commit the file
automatically, as well as make sure that the user isn't looking at a
non-updated collection of files.
Will WebDrive do any of this? NetDrive? What have people out there
found to be the best solution so far? Thanks!!
Robert
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Yves Martin <yv...@elca.ch>.
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 13:37 -0500, Brad Rhoads wrote:
> My guess is you won't be able to use SSPI under Linux, but it's just a
> guess.
>
> The issue is that without using SSPI, you'll need to add all your
> users to some other authentication data store That is if you care
> about getting the user info into the commit message, or if you just
> care about having authentication in general.
For a Linux server, the authentication with Kerberos (Negotiate or
SPNEGO over https) against an ActiveDirectory server is the solution.
For the moment, official win32 Subversion clients are buggy:
. SSO with Kerberos token is broken but it should be fixed soon.
. the http Basic user/password authentication works perfectly with AD
and mod_auth_kerb
Hope this helps
--
Yves Martin
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Brad Rhoads <bd...@gmail.com>.
My guess is you won't be able to use SSPI under Linux, but it's just a guess.
The issue is that without using SSPI, you'll need to add all your
users to some other authentication data store That is if you care
about getting the user info into the commit message, or if you just
care about having authentication in general.
With any form of authentication in place, you'll need to configure
WebDrive individually anyway, so using SSPI won't save you that much
anyway.
On 3/15/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
> I suppose I should mention that this SVN instance in the near future
> will be moved (somehow) to a RedHat EL 5 server and away from
> Windows. Thus I essentially elected not to go the SSPI route. The
> clients in our environment will continue to be Windows for the
> foreseeable future however. Is it possible to use SSPI even if the
> SVN instance sits on a linux server?
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Brad Rhoads wrote:
>
> > 1. Setup svn to use Apache with SSPI. Get mod_auth_sspi from here:
> > http://www.gknw.net/development/apache/httpd-2.0/win32/modules/
> > mod_auth_sspi-1.0.4-2.0.58.zip
> >
> > See http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-
> > serversetup.html
> > for more details on overall install, including info about SSPI. Pay
> > close attention to how you edit Apache's httpd.conf file.
> >
> > 2. The end of your httpd.conf should look something like this. Note
> > this gives you authentication, but not authorization; for that you'll
> > need to use AuthzSVNAccessFile.
> >
> > <Location /svn>
> > DAV svn
> > SVNListParentPath on
> > SVNParentPath E:\svn
> > SVNAutoversioning on
> > ModMimeUsePathInfo on
> >
> > AuthName "SVN Server"
> > AuthType SSPI
> > SSPIAuth On
> > SSPIAuthoritative On
> > SSPIDomain SPENCERSTUART
> > SSPIOfferBasic on #let non-IE clients authenticate
> > #SSPIOmitDomain On # keep domain name in userid string
> > # passed down to mod_authz_svn
> > Require valid-user # A Require directive may? prevent userid
> > # strings from being passed down to
> > mod_authz_svn
> > # our access control policy enforced by mod_authz_svn
> > #AuthzSVNAccessFile "d:/svndav/svnaccess.conf"
> > </Location>
> >
> >
> > 3. Download WebDrive from
> > http://www.webdrive.com/products/webdrive/index.html. After the
> > install, add a new site with the url, server type WebDav. Click
> > Properties|HTTP Settings and disable (uncheck) "Enable persistent
> > connections (Keep-Alive). After you have a connection, open the
> > Program Settings|Cach Settings|Options and select Custom, Cache Files
> > and check all options. Set all boxes to 10 seconds.
> >
> > 4. In you WebDrive and other connections to the repository, you're
> > user id needs to be DOMAIN\userid, not just userid.
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com>.
I suppose I should mention that this SVN instance in the near future
will be moved (somehow) to a RedHat EL 5 server and away from
Windows. Thus I essentially elected not to go the SSPI route. The
clients in our environment will continue to be Windows for the
foreseeable future however. Is it possible to use SSPI even if the
SVN instance sits on a linux server?
Robert
On Mar 15, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Brad Rhoads wrote:
> 1. Setup svn to use Apache with SSPI. Get mod_auth_sspi from here:
> http://www.gknw.net/development/apache/httpd-2.0/win32/modules/
> mod_auth_sspi-1.0.4-2.0.58.zip
>
> See http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-
> serversetup.html
> for more details on overall install, including info about SSPI. Pay
> close attention to how you edit Apache's httpd.conf file.
>
> 2. The end of your httpd.conf should look something like this. Note
> this gives you authentication, but not authorization; for that you'll
> need to use AuthzSVNAccessFile.
>
> <Location /svn>
> DAV svn
> SVNListParentPath on
> SVNParentPath E:\svn
> SVNAutoversioning on
> ModMimeUsePathInfo on
>
> AuthName "SVN Server"
> AuthType SSPI
> SSPIAuth On
> SSPIAuthoritative On
> SSPIDomain SPENCERSTUART
> SSPIOfferBasic on #let non-IE clients authenticate
> #SSPIOmitDomain On # keep domain name in userid string
> # passed down to mod_authz_svn
> Require valid-user # A Require directive may? prevent userid
> # strings from being passed down to
> mod_authz_svn
> # our access control policy enforced by mod_authz_svn
> #AuthzSVNAccessFile "d:/svndav/svnaccess.conf"
> </Location>
>
>
> 3. Download WebDrive from
> http://www.webdrive.com/products/webdrive/index.html. After the
> install, add a new site with the url, server type WebDav. Click
> Properties|HTTP Settings and disable (uncheck) "Enable persistent
> connections (Keep-Alive). After you have a connection, open the
> Program Settings|Cach Settings|Options and select Custom, Cache Files
> and check all options. Set all boxes to 10 seconds.
>
> 4. In you WebDrive and other connections to the repository, you're
> user id needs to be DOMAIN\userid, not just userid.
>
>
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Brad Rhoads <bd...@gmail.com>.
1. Setup svn to use Apache with SSPI. Get mod_auth_sspi from here:
http://www.gknw.net/development/apache/httpd-2.0/win32/modules/mod_auth_sspi-1.0.4-2.0.58.zip
See http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-serversetup.html
for more details on overall install, including info about SSPI. Pay
close attention to how you edit Apache's httpd.conf file.
2. The end of your httpd.conf should look something like this. Note
this gives you authentication, but not authorization; for that you'll
need to use AuthzSVNAccessFile.
<Location /svn>
DAV svn
SVNListParentPath on
SVNParentPath E:\svn
SVNAutoversioning on
ModMimeUsePathInfo on
AuthName "SVN Server"
AuthType SSPI
SSPIAuth On
SSPIAuthoritative On
SSPIDomain SPENCERSTUART
SSPIOfferBasic on #let non-IE clients authenticate
#SSPIOmitDomain On # keep domain name in userid string
# passed down to mod_authz_svn
Require valid-user # A Require directive may? prevent userid
# strings from being passed down to mod_authz_svn
# our access control policy enforced by mod_authz_svn
#AuthzSVNAccessFile "d:/svndav/svnaccess.conf"
</Location>
3. Download WebDrive from
http://www.webdrive.com/products/webdrive/index.html. After the
install, add a new site with the url, server type WebDav. Click
Properties|HTTP Settings and disable (uncheck) "Enable persistent
connections (Keep-Alive). After you have a connection, open the
Program Settings|Cach Settings|Options and select Custom, Cache Files
and check all options. Set all boxes to 10 seconds.
4. In you WebDrive and other connections to the repository, you're
user id needs to be DOMAIN\userid, not just userid.
On 3/15/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am hoping someone here can advise me on how best to implement
> autoversioning for my environment. The best thing you could do for me
> immediately is point me to a really informative read discussing
> subversion/webdav/autoversioning/windows clients, et al.
>
> Any good links you can recommend? I have looked through the nightly
> red bean book, and it is a good start, but I want to read more in
> depth before I delve too much deeper...
>
> What I am looking at is basically this:
>
> We run subversion 1.3 on a windows/apache server and we have limited
> it's availability to the techies in our company. We now have decided
> to move the entire company away from VSS to this. The problem is that
> the rest of the company is decidedly NOT tech savvy so we need a way
> for them to use subversion without getting flustered or confused, or
> breaking our repo.
>
> Currently the techs use TortoiseSVN. We were hoping for something a
> little more seemless. We enforce locking on all files, including
> text, doc, etc, so whatever solution I go with needs to be able to
> lock a file automatically and unlock and commit the file
> automatically, as well as make sure that the user isn't looking at a
> non-updated collection of files.
>
> Will WebDrive do any of this? NetDrive? What have people out there
> found to be the best solution so far? Thanks!!
>
> Robert
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
>
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Kyle Kline <ky...@gmail.com>.
Just to second that notion -- I spent a lot of time on the DAV option
because I assumed the group of users I was targeting (non-IT folks) would
not like TortoiseSVN.
After some side issues with the DAV client I was using, I piloted Tortoise
with one of them and found that they actually preferred it, after I showed
them the basics & the extra stuff they could do with it. We still have some
users though using the native DAV support in Mac OS X just fine, since the
same repo can support both.
That being said, what is true for some is not true for others, so you are
correct to explore both options. Let me know if you need any assistance
with WebDrive, I had a fully running installation with
Apache/WebDAV/WebDrive at my company.
-Kyle
On 3/16/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
>
> Andy, that is a good point and a valid suggestion. Thanks for the
> contribution, the answer is: No, I am NOT certain Tortoise will not
> work. It may prove to be the case that the non-tech users will be
> fine with TSVN, and it may be the case that they will crave the same
> options that your users enjoy. However I have been charged with the
> task of looking at the options so I wanted to see where WebDrive
> would get me.
>
> As it turns out I am having trouble even getting Webdrive to connect
> to my repo anyway. I am thinking perhaps it is having trouble with
> the fact that I enforce ssl and that regular http will not work on my
> repo. I am not sure though. I am tempted to call the South River
> folks to see if they can help but the first person I spoke to there
> had never heard of Subversion so I do not hold out much hope.
>
> Robert
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Andy Levy wrote:
>
> > On 3/15/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am hoping someone here can advise me on how best to implement
> >> autoversioning for my environment. The best thing you could do for me
> >> immediately is point me to a really informative read discussing
> >> subversion/webdav/autoversioning/windows clients, et al.
> >>
> >> Any good links you can recommend? I have looked through the nightly
> >> red bean book, and it is a good start, but I want to read more in
> >> depth before I delve too much deeper...
> >>
> >> What I am looking at is basically this:
> >>
> >> We run subversion 1.3 on a windows/apache server and we have limited
> >> it's availability to the techies in our company. We now have decided
> >> to move the entire company away from VSS to this. The problem is that
> >> the rest of the company is decidedly NOT tech savvy so we need a way
> >> for them to use subversion without getting flustered or confused, or
> >> breaking our repo.
> >>
> >> Currently the techs use TortoiseSVN. We were hoping for something a
> >> little more seemless. We enforce locking on all files, including
> >> text, doc, etc, so whatever solution I go with needs to be able to
> >> lock a file automatically and unlock and commit the file
> >> automatically, as well as make sure that the user isn't looking at a
> >> non-updated collection of files.
> >
> > Are you certain that you can't distribute TSVN? Can you pilot it with
> > a few "regular" users and see if maybe you can avoid setting up
> > autoversioning?
> >
> > I considered autoversioning a long time ago, but in the end real log
> > messages from the committer won out (in addition to the other benefits
> > of using a regular client) over the little extra convenience that
> > autoversioning might have given me.
> >
> > I have non-developers using TSVN and after a little time showing them
> > the basics, they're saying "ok, I get it now" and they're on their
> > way. They like that they can see history and they can work on their
> > files at home, disconnected from the network. They understand that
> > using it is good for everyone.
> >
> > I have people in accounting and auditing departments asking me "can I
> > come to you in 4 months to get this set up for my whole department? We
> > *need* this and we'll gladly take these extra few steps to get all
> > this good functionality." They really like (among other things) that
> > they can see, right in TSVN, how much certain people are or aren't
> > using the system.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
>
Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Brad Rhoads <bd...@gmail.com>.
Can you connect to your repository via Windows a windows web folder?
(From My Computer, Tools|Map Network Drive|Sign up for online storage
or connect to a network server|Next|Next.) If not, then your Apache
setup may not be right. Also, you might need to use DOMAIN\userid.
I've found tech support from South River to be very helpful. And the
issue you're having probably doesn't have anything to do with
subversion directly. WebDrive doesn't really connect to your
repository. WebDrive maps a drive letter to the folder you publish
through Apache/WebDav. In this case the folder you publish is the
folder containing your repository. Subversion works behind the scenes
doing the autoversioning.
Logon to the webdrive.com and submit a ticket. I suspect you'll be
able to get it working.
That said, if you can use Tortoise, I would. It's really not very hard
to understand or to use.
On 3/16/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
> Andy, that is a good point and a valid suggestion. Thanks for the
> contribution, the answer is: No, I am NOT certain Tortoise will not
> work. It may prove to be the case that the non-tech users will be
> fine with TSVN, and it may be the case that they will crave the same
> options that your users enjoy. However I have been charged with the
> task of looking at the options so I wanted to see where WebDrive
> would get me.
>
> As it turns out I am having trouble even getting Webdrive to connect
> to my repo anyway. I am thinking perhaps it is having trouble with
> the fact that I enforce ssl and that regular http will not work on my
> repo. I am not sure though. I am tempted to call the South River
> folks to see if they can help but the first person I spoke to there
> had never heard of Subversion so I do not hold out much hope.
>
> Robert
>
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Andy Levy wrote:
>
> > On 3/15/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am hoping someone here can advise me on how best to implement
> >> autoversioning for my environment. The best thing you could do for me
> >> immediately is point me to a really informative read discussing
> >> subversion/webdav/autoversioning/windows clients, et al.
> >>
> >> Any good links you can recommend? I have looked through the nightly
> >> red bean book, and it is a good start, but I want to read more in
> >> depth before I delve too much deeper...
> >>
> >> What I am looking at is basically this:
> >>
> >> We run subversion 1.3 on a windows/apache server and we have limited
> >> it's availability to the techies in our company. We now have decided
> >> to move the entire company away from VSS to this. The problem is that
> >> the rest of the company is decidedly NOT tech savvy so we need a way
> >> for them to use subversion without getting flustered or confused, or
> >> breaking our repo.
> >>
> >> Currently the techs use TortoiseSVN. We were hoping for something a
> >> little more seemless. We enforce locking on all files, including
> >> text, doc, etc, so whatever solution I go with needs to be able to
> >> lock a file automatically and unlock and commit the file
> >> automatically, as well as make sure that the user isn't looking at a
> >> non-updated collection of files.
> >
> > Are you certain that you can't distribute TSVN? Can you pilot it with
> > a few "regular" users and see if maybe you can avoid setting up
> > autoversioning?
> >
> > I considered autoversioning a long time ago, but in the end real log
> > messages from the committer won out (in addition to the other benefits
> > of using a regular client) over the little extra convenience that
> > autoversioning might have given me.
> >
> > I have non-developers using TSVN and after a little time showing them
> > the basics, they're saying "ok, I get it now" and they're on their
> > way. They like that they can see history and they can work on their
> > files at home, disconnected from the network. They understand that
> > using it is good for everyone.
> >
> > I have people in accounting and auditing departments asking me "can I
> > come to you in 4 months to get this set up for my whole department? We
> > *need* this and we'll gladly take these extra few steps to get all
> > this good functionality." They really like (among other things) that
> > they can see, right in TSVN, how much certain people are or aren't
> > using the system.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com>.
Andy, that is a good point and a valid suggestion. Thanks for the
contribution, the answer is: No, I am NOT certain Tortoise will not
work. It may prove to be the case that the non-tech users will be
fine with TSVN, and it may be the case that they will crave the same
options that your users enjoy. However I have been charged with the
task of looking at the options so I wanted to see where WebDrive
would get me.
As it turns out I am having trouble even getting Webdrive to connect
to my repo anyway. I am thinking perhaps it is having trouble with
the fact that I enforce ssl and that regular http will not work on my
repo. I am not sure though. I am tempted to call the South River
folks to see if they can help but the first person I spoke to there
had never heard of Subversion so I do not hold out much hope.
Robert
On Mar 15, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Andy Levy wrote:
> On 3/15/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am hoping someone here can advise me on how best to implement
>> autoversioning for my environment. The best thing you could do for me
>> immediately is point me to a really informative read discussing
>> subversion/webdav/autoversioning/windows clients, et al.
>>
>> Any good links you can recommend? I have looked through the nightly
>> red bean book, and it is a good start, but I want to read more in
>> depth before I delve too much deeper...
>>
>> What I am looking at is basically this:
>>
>> We run subversion 1.3 on a windows/apache server and we have limited
>> it's availability to the techies in our company. We now have decided
>> to move the entire company away from VSS to this. The problem is that
>> the rest of the company is decidedly NOT tech savvy so we need a way
>> for them to use subversion without getting flustered or confused, or
>> breaking our repo.
>>
>> Currently the techs use TortoiseSVN. We were hoping for something a
>> little more seemless. We enforce locking on all files, including
>> text, doc, etc, so whatever solution I go with needs to be able to
>> lock a file automatically and unlock and commit the file
>> automatically, as well as make sure that the user isn't looking at a
>> non-updated collection of files.
>
> Are you certain that you can't distribute TSVN? Can you pilot it with
> a few "regular" users and see if maybe you can avoid setting up
> autoversioning?
>
> I considered autoversioning a long time ago, but in the end real log
> messages from the committer won out (in addition to the other benefits
> of using a regular client) over the little extra convenience that
> autoversioning might have given me.
>
> I have non-developers using TSVN and after a little time showing them
> the basics, they're saying "ok, I get it now" and they're on their
> way. They like that they can see history and they can work on their
> files at home, disconnected from the network. They understand that
> using it is good for everyone.
>
> I have people in accounting and auditing departments asking me "can I
> come to you in 4 months to get this set up for my whole department? We
> *need* this and we'll gladly take these extra few steps to get all
> this good functionality." They really like (among other things) that
> they can see, right in TSVN, how much certain people are or aren't
> using the system.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
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Re: Autoverioning Advice Needed
Posted by Andy Levy <an...@gmail.com>.
On 3/15/07, Robert Denton <ro...@headsprout.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am hoping someone here can advise me on how best to implement
> autoversioning for my environment. The best thing you could do for me
> immediately is point me to a really informative read discussing
> subversion/webdav/autoversioning/windows clients, et al.
>
> Any good links you can recommend? I have looked through the nightly
> red bean book, and it is a good start, but I want to read more in
> depth before I delve too much deeper...
>
> What I am looking at is basically this:
>
> We run subversion 1.3 on a windows/apache server and we have limited
> it's availability to the techies in our company. We now have decided
> to move the entire company away from VSS to this. The problem is that
> the rest of the company is decidedly NOT tech savvy so we need a way
> for them to use subversion without getting flustered or confused, or
> breaking our repo.
>
> Currently the techs use TortoiseSVN. We were hoping for something a
> little more seemless. We enforce locking on all files, including
> text, doc, etc, so whatever solution I go with needs to be able to
> lock a file automatically and unlock and commit the file
> automatically, as well as make sure that the user isn't looking at a
> non-updated collection of files.
Are you certain that you can't distribute TSVN? Can you pilot it with
a few "regular" users and see if maybe you can avoid setting up
autoversioning?
I considered autoversioning a long time ago, but in the end real log
messages from the committer won out (in addition to the other benefits
of using a regular client) over the little extra convenience that
autoversioning might have given me.
I have non-developers using TSVN and after a little time showing them
the basics, they're saying "ok, I get it now" and they're on their
way. They like that they can see history and they can work on their
files at home, disconnected from the network. They understand that
using it is good for everyone.
I have people in accounting and auditing departments asking me "can I
come to you in 4 months to get this set up for my whole department? We
*need* this and we'll gladly take these extra few steps to get all
this good functionality." They really like (among other things) that
they can see, right in TSVN, how much certain people are or aren't
using the system.
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