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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> on 2007/04/19 20:21:53 UTC
performance with apache and tomcat
Hello,
We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet
container for one of our production systems. I would
like to know if there are any performance issues using
it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp
connector (using mod_rewrite). Is performance expected
to be better if we double up Tomcat as a webserver and
not use apache at all.
I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat may
mean worse performance?
The site is a medium traffic site with about 800
concurrent users, about 40 hits per second. We plan on
using a hardware load balancer and we were not
planning on putting the webserver outside the
firewall, tomcat behind the firewall kind of
configuration, so our webserver and app server are on
the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was to
place static files on the webserver (apache 2.0) and
servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
I appreciate any feedback.
Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I can
search any pervious discussions on this topic?
Thanks.
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RE: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by "Sheets, Jerald" <JS...@weather.com>.
We serve millions daily on Tomcat + Apache + mod_jk.
I think you'll be ok with the standard way of running Tomcat.
--JMS
-----Original Message-----
From: Eqbal [mailto:eqbalz@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:22 PM
To: users@tomcat.apache.org
Subject: performance with apache and tomcat
Hello,
We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet container for one of our
production systems. I would like to know if there are any performance
issues using it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp connector
(using mod_rewrite). Is performance expected to be better if we double
up Tomcat as a webserver and not use apache at all.
I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat may mean worse
performance?
The site is a medium traffic site with about 800 concurrent users, about
40 hits per second. We plan on using a hardware load balancer and we
were not planning on putting the webserver outside the firewall, tomcat
behind the firewall kind of configuration, so our webserver and app
server are on the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was to place
static files on the webserver (apache 2.0) and servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
I appreciate any feedback.
Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I can search any
pervious discussions on this topic?
Thanks.
__________________________________________________
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Re: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@googlemail.com>.
On 4/19/07, Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We will need to use SSL.
Can't you loadbalancer do it? Tomcat can serve SSL as well, but its
tricky to get the keys to work properly. However, serving 800 parallel
connections with SSL could be really tricky on one server.
> What causes any performance overhead in using apache
> with Tomcat, considering they will be on the same
> server?
apache httpd is software which contains code lines, which consume
processor time, and hence real time. Since tomcat needs to completely
serve the request either way, this time is added to the time used by
tomcat and makes the processing slower.
Besides, it will eat away memory that you can better use in your application.
But I don't want to open the can of worms by flaming the httpd too
much. Just perform a load test on both configurations and you will
see for yourself.
regards
Leon
> --- Gary Evesson <ge...@decentrix.net> wrote:
>
> > Unless of course you need mod_rewrite. We also
> > handle millions a day with
> > exactly this set up.
> >
> > Gary Evesson
> > Decentrix Inc
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leon Rosenberg
> > [mailto:rosenberg.leon@googlemail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:30 PM
> > To: Tomcat Users List
> > Subject: Re: performance with apache and tomcat
> >
> > unless you explicitely need the httpd I wouldn't put
> > it in front of
> > tomcat, since besides less performance and security
> > issues (last one
> > like a month (?) ago with mod_jk) it doesn't bring
> > you any benefits.
> > Without knowing your requests (duration, resources
> > they consume etc)
> > its hard to make any estimations at all, but
> > "normally" (whatever
> > normally is) and on fair hardware 40 requests a
> > second are easily
> > served by one tomcat. So you could set up two
> > machines with tomcats,
> > put the traffic on one of them and let your hw
> > loadbalancer perform
> > the failover to the spare machine if needed.
> >
> > regards
> > Leon
> >
> > P.S. There are indeed some real scenarios, where a
> > httpd in front
> > would be useful: down page, ssl, port 80 stress, but
> > since you have a
> > loadbalancer, it will be serving it much better as
> > httpd, so use your
> > lb features.
> >
> > On 4/19/07, Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet
> > > container for one of our production systems. I
> > would
> > > like to know if there are any performance issues
> > using
> > > it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp
> > > connector (using mod_rewrite). Is performance
> > expected
> > > to be better if we double up Tomcat as a webserver
> > and
> > > not use apache at all.
> > > I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat
> > may
> > > mean worse performance?
> > > The site is a medium traffic site with about 800
> > > concurrent users, about 40 hits per second. We
> > plan on
> > > using a hardware load balancer and we were not
> > > planning on putting the webserver outside the
> > > firewall, tomcat behind the firewall kind of
> > > configuration, so our webserver and app server are
> > on
> > > the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was
> > to
> > > place static files on the webserver (apache 2.0)
> > and
> > > servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
> > > I appreciate any feedback.
> > > Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I
> > can
> > > search any pervious discussions on this topic?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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RE: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Gary Evesson <ge...@decentrix.net>.
There are a few things that can get you:
Make sure you have sufficient threads available for the mod_jk connector on
the Apache side. Port 8009 by default. The default value is frighteningly
low and not up to any real load.
Make sure that the machine has enough memory. That is the biggest issue that
I encountered. As the number of connections mount, the amount of memory that
both tomcat and apache need escalates very quickly. Once you get into
swapping, you may as well pack up and go home. Tune the threads
configuration in apache and your VM parameters carefully to avoid memory
contention between apache and tomcat. My experience is that it is better to
reduce the number of concurrent connections you can handle to avoid
swapping.
Gary Evesson
Decentrix Inc
-----Original Message-----
From: Eqbal [mailto:eqbalz@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:27 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: performance with apache and tomcat
We will need to use SSL.
What causes any performance overhead in using apache
with Tomcat, considering they will be on the same
server?
--- Gary Evesson <ge...@decentrix.net> wrote:
> Unless of course you need mod_rewrite. We also
> handle millions a day with
> exactly this set up.
>
> Gary Evesson
> Decentrix Inc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leon Rosenberg
> [mailto:rosenberg.leon@googlemail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:30 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: performance with apache and tomcat
>
> unless you explicitely need the httpd I wouldn't put
> it in front of
> tomcat, since besides less performance and security
> issues (last one
> like a month (?) ago with mod_jk) it doesn't bring
> you any benefits.
> Without knowing your requests (duration, resources
> they consume etc)
> its hard to make any estimations at all, but
> "normally" (whatever
> normally is) and on fair hardware 40 requests a
> second are easily
> served by one tomcat. So you could set up two
> machines with tomcats,
> put the traffic on one of them and let your hw
> loadbalancer perform
> the failover to the spare machine if needed.
>
> regards
> Leon
>
> P.S. There are indeed some real scenarios, where a
> httpd in front
> would be useful: down page, ssl, port 80 stress, but
> since you have a
> loadbalancer, it will be serving it much better as
> httpd, so use your
> lb features.
>
> On 4/19/07, Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet
> > container for one of our production systems. I
> would
> > like to know if there are any performance issues
> using
> > it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp
> > connector (using mod_rewrite). Is performance
> expected
> > to be better if we double up Tomcat as a webserver
> and
> > not use apache at all.
> > I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat
> may
> > mean worse performance?
> > The site is a medium traffic site with about 800
> > concurrent users, about 40 hits per second. We
> plan on
> > using a hardware load balancer and we were not
> > planning on putting the webserver outside the
> > firewall, tomcat behind the firewall kind of
> > configuration, so our webserver and app server are
> on
> > the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was
> to
> > place static files on the webserver (apache 2.0)
> and
> > servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
> > I appreciate any feedback.
> > Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I
> can
> > search any pervious discussions on this topic?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
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> users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
argl - sorry, chuck, you're right: the "2" just dropped from my
fingers, i'm talking about mod_jk (this one:
http://tomcat.apache.org/connectors-doc/webserver_howto/apache.html)
thanks for the correction!
greg
--
what's puzzlin' you, is the nature of my game
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RE: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
> Subject: Re: performance with apache and tomcat
>
> i'd do it the apache way with mod_jk2.
>
> we are running two hardware-loadbalanced servers each having
> apache-httpd / mod_jk2 / tomcat 55-setup, and it runs like charm.
You do realize that mod_jk2 has not been supported for nigh on two years
now, don't you? Pretty much everything mod_jk2 did has been backported
into recent versions of mod_jk.
- Chuck
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Re: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
It always depends on...
if the focus is on the servlets (meaning around 70% of the requests
are satisfied by your servlets), maybe you want to give a
tomcat-only-setup a try.
however, if the focus is on static / php / perl-content an less than
50% of the requests are satisfied by servlets, i'd put apache httpd in
front and connect to tomcat with mod_jk.
there was one security-issue with mod_jk, however, that was one in the
past few years i know of and it was fixed. however, you could also use
mod_proxy in conjunction with mod_proxy_ajp to connect to tomcat,
however, i'd do it the apache way with mod_jk2.
again, serving static / php / perl-content, for performance-reasons
apache httpd should be your choice (or maybe squid, but that's a
different story)
we are running two hardware-loadbalanced servers each having
apache-httpd / mod_jk2 / tomcat 55-setup, and it runs like charm.
cheers
greg
--
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RE: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Peter Crowther <Pe...@melandra.com>.
> From: Eqbal [mailto:eqbalz@yahoo.com]
> What causes any performance overhead in using apache
> with Tomcat, considering they will be on the same
> server?
Each request must be (at least minimally) processed by Apache, the request forwarded over the JK connector to Tomcat, Tomcat processing must occur, the response must be forwarded back over the JK connector to Apache and then sent to the client. With a pure Tomcat setup, the Apache and JK stages are not present.
- Peter
RE: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com>.
We will need to use SSL.
What causes any performance overhead in using apache
with Tomcat, considering they will be on the same
server?
--- Gary Evesson <ge...@decentrix.net> wrote:
> Unless of course you need mod_rewrite. We also
> handle millions a day with
> exactly this set up.
>
> Gary Evesson
> Decentrix Inc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leon Rosenberg
> [mailto:rosenberg.leon@googlemail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:30 PM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: performance with apache and tomcat
>
> unless you explicitely need the httpd I wouldn't put
> it in front of
> tomcat, since besides less performance and security
> issues (last one
> like a month (?) ago with mod_jk) it doesn't bring
> you any benefits.
> Without knowing your requests (duration, resources
> they consume etc)
> its hard to make any estimations at all, but
> "normally" (whatever
> normally is) and on fair hardware 40 requests a
> second are easily
> served by one tomcat. So you could set up two
> machines with tomcats,
> put the traffic on one of them and let your hw
> loadbalancer perform
> the failover to the spare machine if needed.
>
> regards
> Leon
>
> P.S. There are indeed some real scenarios, where a
> httpd in front
> would be useful: down page, ssl, port 80 stress, but
> since you have a
> loadbalancer, it will be serving it much better as
> httpd, so use your
> lb features.
>
> On 4/19/07, Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet
> > container for one of our production systems. I
> would
> > like to know if there are any performance issues
> using
> > it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp
> > connector (using mod_rewrite). Is performance
> expected
> > to be better if we double up Tomcat as a webserver
> and
> > not use apache at all.
> > I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat
> may
> > mean worse performance?
> > The site is a medium traffic site with about 800
> > concurrent users, about 40 hits per second. We
> plan on
> > using a hardware load balancer and we were not
> > planning on putting the webserver outside the
> > firewall, tomcat behind the firewall kind of
> > configuration, so our webserver and app server are
> on
> > the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was
> to
> > place static files on the webserver (apache 2.0)
> and
> > servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
> > I appreciate any feedback.
> > Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I
> can
> > search any pervious discussions on this topic?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>
>
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RE: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Gary Evesson <ge...@decentrix.net>.
Unless of course you need mod_rewrite. We also handle millions a day with
exactly this set up.
Gary Evesson
Decentrix Inc
-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:rosenberg.leon@googlemail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:30 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: performance with apache and tomcat
unless you explicitely need the httpd I wouldn't put it in front of
tomcat, since besides less performance and security issues (last one
like a month (?) ago with mod_jk) it doesn't bring you any benefits.
Without knowing your requests (duration, resources they consume etc)
its hard to make any estimations at all, but "normally" (whatever
normally is) and on fair hardware 40 requests a second are easily
served by one tomcat. So you could set up two machines with tomcats,
put the traffic on one of them and let your hw loadbalancer perform
the failover to the spare machine if needed.
regards
Leon
P.S. There are indeed some real scenarios, where a httpd in front
would be useful: down page, ssl, port 80 stress, but since you have a
loadbalancer, it will be serving it much better as httpd, so use your
lb features.
On 4/19/07, Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet
> container for one of our production systems. I would
> like to know if there are any performance issues using
> it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp
> connector (using mod_rewrite). Is performance expected
> to be better if we double up Tomcat as a webserver and
> not use apache at all.
> I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat may
> mean worse performance?
> The site is a medium traffic site with about 800
> concurrent users, about 40 hits per second. We plan on
> using a hardware load balancer and we were not
> planning on putting the webserver outside the
> firewall, tomcat behind the firewall kind of
> configuration, so our webserver and app server are on
> the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was to
> place static files on the webserver (apache 2.0) and
> servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
> I appreciate any feedback.
> Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I can
> search any pervious discussions on this topic?
>
> Thanks.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: performance with apache and tomcat
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@googlemail.com>.
unless you explicitely need the httpd I wouldn't put it in front of
tomcat, since besides less performance and security issues (last one
like a month (?) ago with mod_jk) it doesn't bring you any benefits.
Without knowing your requests (duration, resources they consume etc)
its hard to make any estimations at all, but "normally" (whatever
normally is) and on fair hardware 40 requests a second are easily
served by one tomcat. So you could set up two machines with tomcats,
put the traffic on one of them and let your hw loadbalancer perform
the failover to the spare machine if needed.
regards
Leon
P.S. There are indeed some real scenarios, where a httpd in front
would be useful: down page, ssl, port 80 stress, but since you have a
loadbalancer, it will be serving it much better as httpd, so use your
lb features.
On 4/19/07, Eqbal <eq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are planning on using Tomcat as the Servlet
> container for one of our production systems. I would
> like to know if there are any performance issues using
> it together with Apache webserver 2.0 and the ajp
> connector (using mod_rewrite). Is performance expected
> to be better if we double up Tomcat as a webserver and
> not use apache at all.
> I heard an opinion that using apache with tomcat may
> mean worse performance?
> The site is a medium traffic site with about 800
> concurrent users, about 40 hits per second. We plan on
> using a hardware load balancer and we were not
> planning on putting the webserver outside the
> firewall, tomcat behind the firewall kind of
> configuration, so our webserver and app server are on
> the same hardware (Suse Linux). Original idea was to
> place static files on the webserver (apache 2.0) and
> servlets/jsps on Tomcat.
> I appreciate any feedback.
> Is this list searchable somewhere on the web? So I can
> search any pervious discussions on this topic?
>
> Thanks.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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>
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