Writing for users (was: Re: [RT] Improving Sitemap and Flowscript)

[Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>]

Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>>>>
>>> You might need to have access to the response too. In WebDAV world, 
>>> as an example, you need to set a whole bunch of headers (Allow:, 
>>> DAV:, MS-Author-Via - yuck - and more), and a DASL component needs to 
>>> specify the search vocabularies supported. True, you can do it by 
>>> hand, but it would be much better if such manipulation could be done 
>>> by a "request-factory".
>>
>>
>>
>> Damn, great point.
>>
>> So, back one step: could "adapt-environment" help? or is "environment" 
>> not good enough for people to understand?
>>
>> What do others think? 
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmh... Up to now, the environment is mostly non visible to regular 
> components (i.e. out of the sitemap/pipeline machinery). Exposing it may 
> lead to many abuses and misuses.
> 
> I would go back only a half-step : "adapt-object-model" sounds better as 
> it provides all that it needed for Gianugo's use cases, and avoids 
> messing up the environment.

I'm fine with the concept, but this brings another question: who is the 
average sitemap writer/manager? I would say that in the Cocoon 
management SoC paradigm who manages the sitemap is not necessariyl an OO 
programmer (or, for that matter, a programmer altogether). She is 
(probably) knows about XML, HTML and HTTP, but it's far less than 
granted that he knows what an "object model" is.

I think, then, that sitemap semantics should not assume previous OOP 
knowledge, and I would refrain from using programmer-domain specific 
terms to describe the sitemap behaviour. This is why I'm more inclined 
towards "environment": it's probably easier to explain to a programmer 
that sitemap's environment is actually the object model than having a 
manager understand what the heck an object model is.

Thoughts?

-- 
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. -  http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
     (Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)

Re: Writing for users

[Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>]

Gianugo Rabellino wrote:

> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>
>>>> You might need to have access to the response too. In WebDAV world, 
>>>> as an example, you need to set a whole bunch of headers (Allow:, 
>>>> DAV:, MS-Author-Via - yuck - and more), and a DASL component needs 
>>>> to specify the search vocabularies supported. True, you can do it 
>>>> by hand, but it would be much better if such manipulation could be 
>>>> done by a "request-factory".
>>>
>>>
>>> Damn, great point.
>>>
>>> So, back one step: could "adapt-environment" help? or is 
>>> "environment" not good enough for people to understand?
>>>
>>> What do others think? 
>>
>>
>> Mmmh... Up to now, the environment is mostly non visible to regular 
>> components (i.e. out of the sitemap/pipeline machinery). Exposing it 
>> may lead to many abuses and misuses.
>>
>> I would go back only a half-step : "adapt-object-model" sounds better 
>> as it provides all that it needed for Gianugo's use cases, and avoids 
>> messing up the environment.
>
>
> I'm fine with the concept, but this brings another question: who is 
> the average sitemap writer/manager? I would say that in the Cocoon 
> management SoC paradigm who manages the sitemap is not necessariyl an 
> OO programmer (or, for that matter, a programmer altogether). She is 
> (probably) knows about XML, HTML and HTTP, but it's far less than 
> granted that he knows what an "object model" is.
>
> I think, then, that sitemap semantics should not assume previous OOP 
> knowledge, and I would refrain from using programmer-domain specific 
> terms to describe the sitemap behaviour. This is why I'm more inclined 
> towards "environment": it's probably easier to explain to a programmer 
> that sitemap's environment is actually the object model than having a 
> manager understand what the heck an object model is.
>
> Thoughts? 


I share your concerns, and my proposal was actually more about the 
abilities of this kind of component than its naming. So we can consider 
using the "adapt-environment" sitemap statement using components 
adapting a _subset_ of the environment, which is the object model.

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Orixo, the opensource XML business alliance  -  http://www.orixo.com