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Posted to dev@hive.apache.org by Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> on 2012/06/01 19:13:58 UTC
Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Dear all,
Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
Thanks
Tim
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com>.
Would you please elaborate on it?
Thanks
Tim
On 6/14/12 10:30 AM, "Edward Capriolo" <ed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>We have had a ticket open for quite some time for combine input format
>to work across partitions. Not sure if that can help with what you are
>seeing as well. It could help us alot.
>
>Edward
>
>On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>> Hey Edward,
>>
>> Thank you very much for providing comments.
>>
>> This feature is designed for use cases described in wiki. We do see them
>> in the real life so that we come up with the feature.
>>
>> In this first release, in order to use the feature:
>> 1. Hive table users need to know the skewed key in advance
>> 2. Hive table users need to know the skewed key is the same each
>> partition.
>> 3. If Hive table users know skewed key change, they can "alter" skewed
>>key
>> via "alter" statement.
>>
>> 4. If #3 happens, old partitions have old skewed key and new partition
>> have new. It's expected.
>>
>> We may consider the following in the future release:
>> 1. Hive instruments skewed key and displays them to user
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/12 9:34 AM, "Edward Capriolo" <ed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I am of the opinion this feature is too specialized to be generally
>>>helpful.
>>>
>>>-------------------------------
>>>The cardinality of 'x' is in 1000's per partition of T. Moreover,
>>>there is a skew for the values of 'x'. In general, there are ~10
>>>values of 'x' which have a very large skew, and the remaining
>>>values of 'x' have a small cardinality. Also, note that this mapping
>>>(values of 'x' with a high cardinality can change daily).
>>>--------------------------
>>>
>>>In these cases you should use clustering/bucketing. This will prevent
>>>the skew you are talking about. If you want more efficiency in certain
>>>query types build a index on top of the original table.
>>>
>>>I understand someone wanting to do this because mysql partition can do
>>>this, but this sounds like a management problem. Who is to say the
>>>skew is the same each partition?
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------
>>>hive compiler to do input pruning. The list of skewed keys is stored
>>>at the table level (note that, this list can be initially supplied by
>>>the client periodically, and can be eventually updated when a new
>>>partition is being loaded).
>>>-----------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Imagine you have a table partitioned by hour and two datacenters China
>>>and NY. At some hours the skew will be different. Skews change over
>>>time. Since this property is table level I do not understand how this
>>>would be changed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>
>>>> I added some comments to the wiki a couple days ago. I just wanted to
>>>>make
>>>> sure you saw them since it doesn't look like you're registered as a
>>>>watcher
>>>> for that page.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Carl, thanks Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >+ hcatalog-dev
>>>>> >
>>>>> >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> This link may work better for some people:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Carl
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Dear all hive developers,
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
>>>>> >>>feature. It
>>>>> >>> should be available soon in weeks.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
>>>>> >>>comments.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Thanks
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Tim
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >Dear all,
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >Thanks
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >Tim
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Edward Capriolo <ed...@gmail.com>.
We have had a ticket open for quite some time for combine input format
to work across partitions. Not sure if that can help with what you are
seeing as well. It could help us alot.
Edward
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
> Hey Edward,
>
> Thank you very much for providing comments.
>
> This feature is designed for use cases described in wiki. We do see them
> in the real life so that we come up with the feature.
>
> In this first release, in order to use the feature:
> 1. Hive table users need to know the skewed key in advance
> 2. Hive table users need to know the skewed key is the same each
> partition.
> 3. If Hive table users know skewed key change, they can "alter" skewed key
> via "alter" statement.
>
> 4. If #3 happens, old partitions have old skewed key and new partition
> have new. It's expected.
>
> We may consider the following in the future release:
> 1. Hive instruments skewed key and displays them to user
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 6/14/12 9:34 AM, "Edward Capriolo" <ed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I am of the opinion this feature is too specialized to be generally
>>helpful.
>>
>>-------------------------------
>>The cardinality of 'x' is in 1000's per partition of T. Moreover,
>>there is a skew for the values of 'x'. In general, there are ~10
>>values of 'x' which have a very large skew, and the remaining
>>values of 'x' have a small cardinality. Also, note that this mapping
>>(values of 'x' with a high cardinality can change daily).
>>--------------------------
>>
>>In these cases you should use clustering/bucketing. This will prevent
>>the skew you are talking about. If you want more efficiency in certain
>>query types build a index on top of the original table.
>>
>>I understand someone wanting to do this because mysql partition can do
>>this, but this sounds like a management problem. Who is to say the
>>skew is the same each partition?
>>
>>-----------------------------------------
>>hive compiler to do input pruning. The list of skewed keys is stored
>>at the table level (note that, this list can be initially supplied by
>>the client periodically, and can be eventually updated when a new
>>partition is being loaded).
>>-----------------------------------------
>>
>>Imagine you have a table partitioned by hour and two datacenters China
>>and NY. At some hours the skew will be different. Skews change over
>>time. Since this property is table level I do not understand how this
>>would be changed.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Tim,
>>>
>>> I added some comments to the wiki a couple days ago. I just wanted to
>>>make
>>> sure you saw them since it doesn't look like you're registered as a
>>>watcher
>>> for that page.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Carl, thanks Tim
>>>>
>>>> On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >+ hcatalog-dev
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>>>> >wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> This link may work better for some people:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Carl
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Dear all hive developers,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
>>>> >>>feature. It
>>>> >>> should be available soon in weeks.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
>>>> >>>comments.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Tim
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >Dear all,
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >Thanks
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >Tim
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com>.
Hey Edward,
Thank you very much for providing comments.
This feature is designed for use cases described in wiki. We do see them
in the real life so that we come up with the feature.
In this first release, in order to use the feature:
1. Hive table users need to know the skewed key in advance
2. Hive table users need to know the skewed key is the same each
partition.
3. If Hive table users know skewed key change, they can "alter" skewed key
via "alter" statement.
4. If #3 happens, old partitions have old skewed key and new partition
have new. It's expected.
We may consider the following in the future release:
1. Hive instruments skewed key and displays them to user
Thanks
Tim
On 6/14/12 9:34 AM, "Edward Capriolo" <ed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I am of the opinion this feature is too specialized to be generally
>helpful.
>
>-------------------------------
>The cardinality of 'x' is in 1000's per partition of T. Moreover,
>there is a skew for the values of 'x'. In general, there are ~10
>values of 'x' which have a very large skew, and the remaining
>values of 'x' have a small cardinality. Also, note that this mapping
>(values of 'x' with a high cardinality can change daily).
>--------------------------
>
>In these cases you should use clustering/bucketing. This will prevent
>the skew you are talking about. If you want more efficiency in certain
>query types build a index on top of the original table.
>
>I understand someone wanting to do this because mysql partition can do
>this, but this sounds like a management problem. Who is to say the
>skew is the same each partition?
>
>-----------------------------------------
>hive compiler to do input pruning. The list of skewed keys is stored
>at the table level (note that, this list can be initially supplied by
>the client periodically, and can be eventually updated when a new
>partition is being loaded).
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Imagine you have a table partitioned by hour and two datacenters China
>and NY. At some hours the skew will be different. Skews change over
>time. Since this property is table level I do not understand how this
>would be changed.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> I added some comments to the wiki a couple days ago. I just wanted to
>>make
>> sure you saw them since it doesn't look like you're registered as a
>>watcher
>> for that page.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Carl, thanks Tim
>>>
>>> On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >+ hcatalog-dev
>>> >
>>> >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> This link may work better for some people:
>>> >>
>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks.
>>> >>
>>> >> Carl
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Dear all hive developers,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
>>> >>>feature. It
>>> >>> should be available soon in weeks.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
>>> >>>comments.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Tim
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >Dear all,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Thanks
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Tim
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Edward Capriolo <ed...@gmail.com>.
I am of the opinion this feature is too specialized to be generally helpful.
-------------------------------
The cardinality of 'x' is in 1000's per partition of T. Moreover,
there is a skew for the values of 'x'. In general, there are ~10
values of 'x' which have a very large skew, and the remaining
values of 'x' have a small cardinality. Also, note that this mapping
(values of 'x' with a high cardinality can change daily).
--------------------------
In these cases you should use clustering/bucketing. This will prevent
the skew you are talking about. If you want more efficiency in certain
query types build a index on top of the original table.
I understand someone wanting to do this because mysql partition can do
this, but this sounds like a management problem. Who is to say the
skew is the same each partition?
-----------------------------------------
hive compiler to do input pruning. The list of skewed keys is stored
at the table level (note that, this list can be initially supplied by
the client periodically, and can be eventually updated when a new
partition is being loaded).
-----------------------------------------
Imagine you have a table partitioned by hour and two datacenters China
and NY. At some hours the skew will be different. Skews change over
time. Since this property is table level I do not understand how this
would be changed.
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> I added some comments to the wiki a couple days ago. I just wanted to make
> sure you saw them since it doesn't look like you're registered as a watcher
> for that page.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Carl, thanks Tim
>>
>> On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>>
>> >+ hcatalog-dev
>> >
>> >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> This link may work better for some people:
>> >>
>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Carl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Dear all hive developers,
>> >>>
>> >>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
>> >>>feature. It
>> >>> should be available soon in weeks.
>> >>>
>> >>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
>> >>>comments.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>>
>> >>> Tim
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >Dear all,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Thanks
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Tim
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com>.
Hi Carl,
Thank you for informing me. Yes, I didn't register as a watcher so that I
didn't see it.
I am sorry.
I just register as a watcher. I will check comments and reply accordingly.
Thanks
Tim
On 6/14/12 1:14 AM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>Hi Tim,
>
>I added some comments to the wiki a couple days ago. I just wanted to make
>sure you saw them since it doesn't look like you're registered as a
>watcher
>for that page.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Carl
>
>On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Carl, thanks Tim
>>
>> On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>>
>> >+ hcatalog-dev
>> >
>> >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> This link may work better for some people:
>> >>
>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Carl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Dear all hive developers,
>> >>>
>> >>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
>> >>>feature. It
>> >>> should be available soon in weeks.
>> >>>
>> >>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
>> >>>comments.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>>
>> >>> Tim
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >Dear all,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Thanks
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Tim
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>.
Hi Tim,
I added some comments to the wiki a couple days ago. I just wanted to make
sure you saw them since it doesn't look like you're registered as a watcher
for that page.
Thanks.
Carl
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
> Hi Carl, thanks Tim
>
> On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>
> >+ hcatalog-dev
> >
> >On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> This link may work better for some people:
> >>
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Carl
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear all hive developers,
> >>>
> >>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
> >>>feature. It
> >>> should be available soon in weeks.
> >>>
> >>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
> >>>comments.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >Dear all,
> >>> >
> >>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
> >>> >
> >>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >Thanks
> >>> >
> >>> >Tim
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com>.
Hi Carl, thanks Tim
On 6/11/12 12:14 PM, "Carl Steinbach" <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
>+ hcatalog-dev
>
>On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>
>wrote:
>
>> This link may work better for some people:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all hive developers,
>>>
>>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing
>>>feature. It
>>> should be available soon in weeks.
>>>
>>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your
>>>comments.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Dear all,
>>> >
>>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>>> >
>>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Thanks
>>> >
>>> >Tim
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>.
+ hcatalog-dev
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com> wrote:
> This link may work better for some people:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
>
> Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all hive developers,
>>
>> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing feature. It
>> should be available soon in weeks.
>>
>> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your comments.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Dear all,
>> >
>> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>> >
>> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> >Tim
>> >
>>
>>
>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Carl Steinbach <ca...@cloudera.com>.
This link may work better for some people:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/ListBucketing
Thanks.
Carl
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
> Dear all hive developers,
>
> We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing feature. It
> should be available soon in weeks.
>
> We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim
>
> On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>
> >Dear all,
> >
> >Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
> >
> >https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
> >
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Tim
> >
>
>
Re: Hive List Bucketing - Feature Review
Posted by Gang Liu <ga...@fb.com>.
Dear all hive developers,
We are making good progress of implementing the list bucketing feature. It
should be available soon in weeks.
We'd like to call feature review again and please provide your comments.
Thanks
Tim
On 6/1/12 10:13 AM, "Gang Liu" <ga...@fb.com> wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Please review the proposal and provide your comments:
>
>https://cwiki.apache.org/Hive/listbucketing.html
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Tim
>