Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

Why have we started to see around 50% of issues and PRs marked with a
Team number?

Mark

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Huxing Zhang <hu...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 7:17 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
> > Hi, mark
> >
> > Sorry for disturbing all of you.
>
> No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a concern.
>
> My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
> going on that the project wasn't aware of.
>
> A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
> the same issue.
>
> > This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
> > it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us
>
> If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
> request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
> the dev@ mailing list.

+1.

>
> If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
> request on this list.
>
> My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
> hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
> something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
> yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
> that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
> the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
> conversation needs to move to the mailing list.

Indeed, "If it did not happen on the mailing list, it did not happen."
In fact I see the following challenges when I trying to advice people
to move to the mailing list:

* Language, most of them may feel they could not well express their
ideas in English. My suggestion is bad English is better than good
Chinese. And I will also encourage them to use Chinese followed by
English as a complement.
* Instant message first. People in China uses instant message app
quite intensively, especially on mobile phone, as a result, instant
message app is the first citizen in people's daily work, it is hard to
let them move from instant message app to mailing list. I have to say
the user experience of email app is far behind instant message app in
terms of on the phone.  I've been invited to several chat group, and
are asked about questions about Dubbo. When I tried to respond with
"Please ask on the mailing list", I see very low conversion rate, 1
out 10 people will do.
* Preference for Github issue over mailing list. Since Dubbo has been
open sourced for years, people get used to asked questions on Github
issue when there was no mailing list. The preference can not be
changed easily for existing users, IMO it is ok to discuss usage
questions, bugfix, and minor changes on Github issues. But for feature
request and major changes, I think it is the committers'
responsibility to bring it back to dev list.

>
> To provide some examples:
>
> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> and I'll take a look."
>
> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> users@ mailing list.
>
> > to
> > provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project, and
> > we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
>
> Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
> men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
> use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
>
> I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
> expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
> discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
>
> > Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many emails,
> > which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways, such
> > as one team fix issues separated from each other.
>
> It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
> appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
> the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
> in my role as a mentor.
>
> Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
> multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
> duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
> that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
> I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
> that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
> possible experience.
>
> > Do you guys have any other suggestions?
>
> More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
> notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
> to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
> activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
> planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
> happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
> moving on to dev@ list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark



-- 
Best Regards！
Huxing

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Ian Luo <ia...@gmail.com>]

>
> More generally, the criteria that the ASF looks for in communication
> channels used by projects are (in no particular order):
> - open to all
> - asynchronous
> - available off-line
> - full history
> - searchable
> - archived on ASF controlled systems
> - low bandwidth / minimal system requirements


Cannot agree any more. Recently I studied the Apache way from Shane's
website [1], now I understand how ASF weight mailing-list as the major
communication channel so much. We could stick to mailing list but let's be
open to find alternative way which is better.

PS I see there is a Dubbo session at ApacheCon NA. I'd be more than
> happy to sit down with anyone that is interested and chat about any
> questions, concerns, etc. they may have about how the ASF works, why
> things are the way the are and any other ASF related questions.


Jun and I will attend ApacheCon NA this time. I think it is a good chance
for us to meet together to explain the challenge we face to attract
developers in China to involve in a project running in the Apache way.


1. http://theapacheway.com/

On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 6:22 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 18/08/18 10:24, Ian Luo wrote:
> > Mark,
> >
> > Here's one relevant topic I would like to discuss with you. I understand
> > the Apache way encourages *open* discussion. In my opinion, the
> interaction
> > on GitHub issue is one kind of the open discussion, and many modern open
> > source projects leverages this as the major channel. What's your opinion
> on
> > this?
>
> From an ASF perspective there are no concerns if that is how a project
> prefers to communicate (primarily because all the discussion is echoed
> back to an ASF mailing list).
>
> Personally, it isn't my favourite but I think that is more to do with
> how it is integrated into ASF mailing lists than anything else (ASF
> mailing lists are the primary way I follow what is going on across
> multiple areas of the ASF). I don't like the way questions, bugs and PRs
> all end up in the same place and the lack of threading makes it hard to
> follow - especially with a high activity project like Dubbo.
>
> One of the things on my TODO list for ApacheCon NA is to sit down with
> the infra folks and figure out if we can improve the integration -
> particularly the threading.
>
> More generally, the criteria that the ASF looks for in communication
> channels used by projects are (in no particular order):
>
> - open to all
> - asynchronous
> - available off-line
> - full history
> - searchable
> - archived on ASF controlled systems
> - low bandwidth / minimal system requirements
>
> E-mail may seem a little 'old school' at times but it is one of the few
> technologies that meets all of the above. Which is why most of our
> systems are configured to echo stuff back to the relevant mailing list.
>
> These days I'm used to an always on internet connections with speeds in
> the 10s of megabits where I don't need to worry about the cost (even
> when I am out and about) but it is worth remembering that not everyone
> is in that position. It wasn't really that long ago that I could
> sometimes be found working on Apache projects via a 9600 bits per second
> dial-up connection that I paid for by the second. It was perfectly
> possible for me to follow what was going on by connecting for a few
> minutes every couple of hours, syncing my email, making a few commits if
> I had anything to commit and then disconnecting and continuing to work
> off-line. If all communication had happened via a GitHub like interface
> there is no way I would have been able to follow the project.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
> PS I see there is a Dubbo session at ApacheCon NA. I'd be more than
> happy to sit down with anyone that is interested and chat about any
> questions, concerns, etc. they may have about how the ASF works, why
> things are the way the are and any other ASF related questions.
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Ian.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:31 AM jun liu <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> To provide some examples:
> >>>
> >>> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> >>> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> >>> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> >>> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> >>> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> >>> and I'll take a look."
> >>>
> >>> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> >>> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> >>> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> >>> users@ mailing list.
> >>
> >> These examples impressed me a lot, actually, I am experiencing this now.
> >> People from work sometimes report issues about Dubbo through internal
> >> communication channels (IM or work email). And I have to admit that in
> some
> >> cases, I have chosen to directly discuss problems with them but forgot
> to
> >> bring them to the community, which means I misused the two roles of work
> >> and open source.
> >>
> >> Most of the times, language becomes the excuse for making the wrong
> >> decisions, because some colleagues and users of Dubbo in china are not
> good
> >> enough in English. For those users, maybe we can encourage them to
> provide
> >> both the Chinese and English descriptions when reporting issues, for
> >> example, write the Chinese version first and then directly translate to
> >> English using Google.
> >>
> >> I think that the way Mark's been doing is right for running an open
> source
> >> project, I will also try to “Redirect everyone reporting issues to the
> >> mailing list or Github issue tracker".
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Jun
> >>
> >>> On 16 Aug 2018, at 19:17, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
> >>>> Hi, mark
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry for disturbing all of you.
> >>>
> >>> No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a
> >> concern.
> >>>
> >>> My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of
> organisation
> >>> going on that the project wasn't aware of.
> >>>
> >>> A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs
> for
> >>> the same issue.
> >>>
> >>>> This is an activity for students to participate in open source
> project,
> >>>> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked
> us
> >>>
> >>> If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
> >>> request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which
> means
> >>> the dev@ mailing list.
> >>>
> >>> If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing
> that
> >>> request on this list.
> >>>
> >>> My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
> >>> hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
> >>> something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you
> find
> >>> yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or
> anywhere
> >>> that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
> >>> the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that
> the
> >>> conversation needs to move to the mailing list.
> >>>
> >>> To provide some examples:
> >>>
> >>> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> >>> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> >>> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> >>> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> >>> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> >>> and I'll take a look."
> >>>
> >>> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> >>> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> >>> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> >>> users@ mailing list.
> >>>
> >>>> to
> >>>> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project,
> >> and
> >>>> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
> >>>
> >>> Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively
> to
> >>> men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
> >>> use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
> >>>
> >>> I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
> >>> expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
> >>> discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
> >>>
> >>>> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many
> >> emails,
> >>>> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways,
> >> such
> >>>> as one team fix issues separated from each other.
> >>>
> >>> It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
> >>> appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
> >>> the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
> >>> in my role as a mentor.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
> >>> multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
> >>> duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
> >>> that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other.
> All
> >>> I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
> >>> that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the
> best
> >>> possible experience.
> >>>
> >>>> Do you guys have any other suggestions?
> >>>
> >>> More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on
> the
> >>> notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
> >>> to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
> >>> activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
> >>> planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
> >>> happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
> >>> moving on to dev@ list.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Ian Luo <ia...@gmail.com>]

>
> I’m also at ApacheCon NA and can be involved in that. I will also be
> attending COSCon’18 in Shenzhen and another conference in Shanghai the week
> before that so if anyone wants to meet up please get in touch.


I will attend COSCon'18 and speak about 'how to involve in Dubbo'. Let's
see if we have chance to get in touch. Let me know your agenda and in which
way I could reach you. I use wechat but I suppose you don't use it. Let me
know what IM you use and your id. That'll be the most convenient way for me
to contact you when we're both in Shenzhen.

Regards,
-Ian.

On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 7:19 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks Mark for the great advice here in this thread. Just about every
> time I see something I should respond to Mark gets there first and puts it
> way better than I could. :-)
>
> > PS I see there is a Dubbo session at ApacheCon NA. I'd be more than
> > happy to sit down with anyone that is interested and chat about any
> > questions, concerns, etc. they may have about how the ASF works, why
> > things are the way the are and any other ASF related questions.
>
> I’m also at ApacheCon NA and can be involved in that. I will also be
> attending COSCon’18 in Shenzhen and another conference in Shanghai the week
> before that so if anyone wants to meet up please get in touch.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[jun liu <ke...@gmail.com>]

Hi, Mark & Justin,

Thank you for your kindness, I am attending ApacheCon NA and that’s exciting. I have to say that it will be a great honor for me if I can meet with you two with so much reputation in the ASF in person. 

According to the schedule, Ian and I will speak at Tuesday, 25th Sep, 16:40 (50 min) with the topic of Introducing Apache Dubbo(Incubating): What is Dubbo and How it Works, it’d be great if you guys can be there. Or we can discuss a convenient time for meeting later, I guess Ian and me would be available for most of the time.

Best regards,
Jun

> On 19 Aug 2018, at 07:18, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks Mark for the great advice here in this thread. Just about every time I see something I should respond to Mark gets there first and puts it way better than I could. :-)
> 
>> PS I see there is a Dubbo session at ApacheCon NA. I'd be more than
>> happy to sit down with anyone that is interested and chat about any
>> questions, concerns, etc. they may have about how the ASF works, why
>> things are the way the are and any other ASF related questions.
> 
> I’m also at ApacheCon NA and can be involved in that. I will also be attending COSCon’18 in Shenzhen and another conference in Shanghai the week before that so if anyone wants to meet up please get in touch.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

Thanks Mark for the great advice here in this thread. Just about every time I see something I should respond to Mark gets there first and puts it way better than I could. :-)

> PS I see there is a Dubbo session at ApacheCon NA. I'd be more than
> happy to sit down with anyone that is interested and chat about any
> questions, concerns, etc. they may have about how the ASF works, why
> things are the way the are and any other ASF related questions.

I’m also at ApacheCon NA and can be involved in that. I will also be attending COSCon’18 in Shenzhen and another conference in Shanghai the week before that so if anyone wants to meet up please get in touch.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

On 18/08/18 10:24, Ian Luo wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> Here's one relevant topic I would like to discuss with you. I understand
> the Apache way encourages *open* discussion. In my opinion, the interaction
> on GitHub issue is one kind of the open discussion, and many modern open
> source projects leverages this as the major channel. What's your opinion on
> this?

From an ASF perspective there are no concerns if that is how a project
prefers to communicate (primarily because all the discussion is echoed
back to an ASF mailing list).

Personally, it isn't my favourite but I think that is more to do with
how it is integrated into ASF mailing lists than anything else (ASF
mailing lists are the primary way I follow what is going on across
multiple areas of the ASF). I don't like the way questions, bugs and PRs
all end up in the same place and the lack of threading makes it hard to
follow - especially with a high activity project like Dubbo.

One of the things on my TODO list for ApacheCon NA is to sit down with
the infra folks and figure out if we can improve the integration -
particularly the threading.

More generally, the criteria that the ASF looks for in communication
channels used by projects are (in no particular order):

- open to all
- asynchronous
- available off-line
- full history
- searchable
- archived on ASF controlled systems
- low bandwidth / minimal system requirements

E-mail may seem a little 'old school' at times but it is one of the few
technologies that meets all of the above. Which is why most of our
systems are configured to echo stuff back to the relevant mailing list.

These days I'm used to an always on internet connections with speeds in
the 10s of megabits where I don't need to worry about the cost (even
when I am out and about) but it is worth remembering that not everyone
is in that position. It wasn't really that long ago that I could
sometimes be found working on Apache projects via a 9600 bits per second
dial-up connection that I paid for by the second. It was perfectly
possible for me to follow what was going on by connecting for a few
minutes every couple of hours, syncing my email, making a few commits if
I had anything to commit and then disconnecting and continuing to work
off-line. If all communication had happened via a GitHub like interface
there is no way I would have been able to follow the project.

Cheers,

Mark

PS I see there is a Dubbo session at ApacheCon NA. I'd be more than
happy to sit down with anyone that is interested and chat about any
questions, concerns, etc. they may have about how the ASF works, why
things are the way the are and any other ASF related questions.


> 
> Thanks,
> -Ian.
> 
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:31 AM jun liu <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>
>>> To provide some examples:
>>>
>>> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
>>> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
>>> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
>>> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
>>> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
>>> and I'll take a look."
>>>
>>> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
>>> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
>>> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
>>> users@ mailing list.
>>
>> These examples impressed me a lot, actually, I am experiencing this now.
>> People from work sometimes report issues about Dubbo through internal
>> communication channels (IM or work email). And I have to admit that in some
>> cases, I have chosen to directly discuss problems with them but forgot to
>> bring them to the community, which means I misused the two roles of work
>> and open source.
>>
>> Most of the times, language becomes the excuse for making the wrong
>> decisions, because some colleagues and users of Dubbo in china are not good
>> enough in English. For those users, maybe we can encourage them to provide
>> both the Chinese and English descriptions when reporting issues, for
>> example, write the Chinese version first and then directly translate to
>> English using Google.
>>
>> I think that the way Mark's been doing is right for running an open source
>> project, I will also try to “Redirect everyone reporting issues to the
>> mailing list or Github issue tracker".
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jun
>>
>>> On 16 Aug 2018, at 19:17, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
>>>> Hi, mark
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for disturbing all of you.
>>>
>>> No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a
>> concern.
>>>
>>> My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
>>> going on that the project wasn't aware of.
>>>
>>> A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
>>> the same issue.
>>>
>>>> This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
>>>> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us
>>>
>>> If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
>>> request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
>>> the dev@ mailing list.
>>>
>>> If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
>>> request on this list.
>>>
>>> My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
>>> hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
>>> something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
>>> yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
>>> that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
>>> the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
>>> conversation needs to move to the mailing list.
>>>
>>> To provide some examples:
>>>
>>> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
>>> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
>>> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
>>> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
>>> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
>>> and I'll take a look."
>>>
>>> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
>>> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
>>> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
>>> users@ mailing list.
>>>
>>>> to
>>>> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project,
>> and
>>>> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
>>>
>>> Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
>>> men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
>>> use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
>>>
>>> I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
>>> expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
>>> discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
>>>
>>>> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many
>> emails,
>>>> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways,
>> such
>>>> as one team fix issues separated from each other.
>>>
>>> It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
>>> appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
>>> the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
>>> in my role as a mentor.
>>>
>>> Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
>>> multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
>>> duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
>>> that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
>>> I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
>>> that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
>>> possible experience.
>>>
>>>> Do you guys have any other suggestions?
>>>
>>> More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
>>> notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
>>> to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
>>> activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
>>> planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
>>> happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
>>> moving on to dev@ list.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Mark
>>
>>
> 

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Huxing Zhang <hu...@apache.org>]

Hi,

I'd like to add a few more scenarioes that could benefit from using
mailing list over Github.

1. Some discussion may happen across repositories. Right now dubbo has
several core repositories incubating in ASF and 26 more repositories
listed in the eco-system (https://github.com/dubbo). We need to
centralize all the decision making process in one place, rather than
discuss in every repository, this make the the decision making more
trackable.

2. Some discussion may happen across projects or communities. They may
not be using Github as their major channel for decision making.

3. Github is not mobile friendly. You can find various mobile apps,
but you can't even find a official mobile app for Github.

I think the mailing list is by far the most pervasive candidate for
these scenarios.
On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 5:25 PM Ian Luo <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Here's one relevant topic I would like to discuss with you. I understand
> the Apache way encourages *open* discussion. In my opinion, the interaction
> on GitHub issue is one kind of the open discussion, and many modern open
> source projects leverages this as the major channel. What's your opinion on
> this?
>
> Thanks,
> -Ian.
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:31 AM jun liu <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > To provide some examples:
> > >
> > > I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> > > Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> > > receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> > > think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> > > is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> > > and I'll take a look."
> > >
> > > I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> > > issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> > > template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> > > users@ mailing list.
> >
> > These examples impressed me a lot, actually, I am experiencing this now.
> > People from work sometimes report issues about Dubbo through internal
> > communication channels (IM or work email). And I have to admit that in some
> > cases, I have chosen to directly discuss problems with them but forgot to
> > bring them to the community, which means I misused the two roles of work
> > and open source.
> >
> > Most of the times, language becomes the excuse for making the wrong
> > decisions, because some colleagues and users of Dubbo in china are not good
> > enough in English. For those users, maybe we can encourage them to provide
> > both the Chinese and English descriptions when reporting issues, for
> > example, write the Chinese version first and then directly translate to
> > English using Google.
> >
> > I think that the way Mark's been doing is right for running an open source
> > project, I will also try to “Redirect everyone reporting issues to the
> > mailing list or Github issue tracker".
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jun
> >
> > > On 16 Aug 2018, at 19:17, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
> > >> Hi, mark
> > >>
> > >> Sorry for disturbing all of you.
> > >
> > > No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a
> > concern.
> > >
> > > My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
> > > going on that the project wasn't aware of.
> > >
> > > A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
> > > the same issue.
> > >
> > >> This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
> > >> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us
> > >
> > > If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
> > > request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
> > > the dev@ mailing list.
> > >
> > > If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
> > > request on this list.
> > >
> > > My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
> > > hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
> > > something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
> > > yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
> > > that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
> > > the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
> > > conversation needs to move to the mailing list.
> > >
> > > To provide some examples:
> > >
> > > I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> > > Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> > > receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> > > think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> > > is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> > > and I'll take a look."
> > >
> > > I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> > > issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> > > template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> > > users@ mailing list.
> > >
> > >> to
> > >> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project,
> > and
> > >> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
> > >
> > > Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
> > > men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
> > > use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
> > >
> > > I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
> > > expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
> > > discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
> > >
> > >> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many
> > emails,
> > >> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways,
> > such
> > >> as one team fix issues separated from each other.
> > >
> > > It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
> > > appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
> > > the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
> > > in my role as a mentor.
> > >
> > > Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
> > > multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
> > > duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
> > > that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
> > > I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
> > > that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
> > > possible experience.
> > >
> > >> Do you guys have any other suggestions?
> > >
> > > More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
> > > notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
> > > to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
> > > activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
> > > planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
> > > happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
> > > moving on to dev@ list.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Mark
> >
> >



-- 
Best Regards！
Huxing

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Ian Luo <ia...@gmail.com>]

Mark,

Here's one relevant topic I would like to discuss with you. I understand
the Apache way encourages *open* discussion. In my opinion, the interaction
on GitHub issue is one kind of the open discussion, and many modern open
source projects leverages this as the major channel. What's your opinion on
this?

Thanks,
-Ian.

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:31 AM jun liu <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > To provide some examples:
> >
> > I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> > Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> > receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> > think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> > is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> > and I'll take a look."
> >
> > I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> > issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> > template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> > users@ mailing list.
>
> These examples impressed me a lot, actually, I am experiencing this now.
> People from work sometimes report issues about Dubbo through internal
> communication channels (IM or work email). And I have to admit that in some
> cases, I have chosen to directly discuss problems with them but forgot to
> bring them to the community, which means I misused the two roles of work
> and open source.
>
> Most of the times, language becomes the excuse for making the wrong
> decisions, because some colleagues and users of Dubbo in china are not good
> enough in English. For those users, maybe we can encourage them to provide
> both the Chinese and English descriptions when reporting issues, for
> example, write the Chinese version first and then directly translate to
> English using Google.
>
> I think that the way Mark's been doing is right for running an open source
> project, I will also try to “Redirect everyone reporting issues to the
> mailing list or Github issue tracker".
>
> Best regards,
> Jun
>
> > On 16 Aug 2018, at 19:17, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
> >> Hi, mark
> >>
> >> Sorry for disturbing all of you.
> >
> > No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a
> concern.
> >
> > My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
> > going on that the project wasn't aware of.
> >
> > A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
> > the same issue.
> >
> >> This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
> >> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us
> >
> > If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
> > request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
> > the dev@ mailing list.
> >
> > If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
> > request on this list.
> >
> > My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
> > hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
> > something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
> > yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
> > that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
> > the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
> > conversation needs to move to the mailing list.
> >
> > To provide some examples:
> >
> > I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> > Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> > receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> > think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> > is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> > and I'll take a look."
> >
> > I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> > issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> > template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> > users@ mailing list.
> >
> >> to
> >> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project,
> and
> >> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
> >
> > Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
> > men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
> > use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
> >
> > I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
> > expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
> > discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
> >
> >> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many
> emails,
> >> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways,
> such
> >> as one team fix issues separated from each other.
> >
> > It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
> > appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
> > the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
> > in my role as a mentor.
> >
> > Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
> > multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
> > duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
> > that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
> > I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
> > that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
> > possible experience.
> >
> >> Do you guys have any other suggestions?
> >
> > More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
> > notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
> > to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
> > activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
> > planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
> > happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
> > moving on to dev@ list.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mark
>
>

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[jun liu <ke...@gmail.com>]

> 
> To provide some examples:
> 
> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> and I'll take a look."
> 
> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> users@ mailing list.

These examples impressed me a lot, actually, I am experiencing this now. People from work sometimes report issues about Dubbo through internal communication channels (IM or work email). And I have to admit that in some cases, I have chosen to directly discuss problems with them but forgot to bring them to the community, which means I misused the two roles of work and open source. 

Most of the times, language becomes the excuse for making the wrong decisions, because some colleagues and users of Dubbo in china are not good enough in English. For those users, maybe we can encourage them to provide both the Chinese and English descriptions when reporting issues, for example, write the Chinese version first and then directly translate to English using Google. 

I think that the way Mark's been doing is right for running an open source project, I will also try to “Redirect everyone reporting issues to the mailing list or Github issue tracker".

Best regards,
Jun

> On 16 Aug 2018, at 19:17, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
>> Hi, mark
>> 
>> Sorry for disturbing all of you.
> 
> No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a concern.
> 
> My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
> going on that the project wasn't aware of.
> 
> A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
> the same issue.
> 
>> This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
>> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us
> 
> If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
> request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
> the dev@ mailing list.
> 
> If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
> request on this list.
> 
> My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
> hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
> something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
> yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
> that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
> the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
> conversation needs to move to the mailing list.
> 
> To provide some examples:
> 
> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> and I'll take a look."
> 
> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> users@ mailing list.
> 
>> to
>> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project, and
>> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
> 
> Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
> men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
> use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
> 
> I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
> expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
> discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
> 
>> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many emails,
>> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways, such
>> as one team fix issues separated from each other.
> 
> It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
> appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
> the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
> in my role as a mentor.
> 
> Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
> multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
> duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
> that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
> I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
> that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
> possible experience.
> 
>> Do you guys have any other suggestions?
> 
> More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
> notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
> to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
> activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
> planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
> happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
> moving on to dev@ list.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Ian Luo <ia...@gmail.com>]

Mark,

First of all it is me who should be blamed. I didn't realize it is
necessary to inform such kind of activity to the whole community.

It was good will to evangelize both Dubbo and the Apache way to the
university students in China. Thought these students in fact are now
interns in Alibaba, we do hope they could bring the experience on Dubbo and
Apache open source back to their classmates when they finishes internship.
In fact, as the mentor of these interns, we gave the speech to them on why
it is so important to run a open source project in Apache way, and how easy
they can involve in one open source project, in this case, certainly it is
Dubbo. Our further plan is to organize wider activity to cover more
university students, not only limited to Alibaba's interns, something
similar like google's summer of code. We believe this practice helps to
promote both Dubbo and Apache foundation in China, and we plan to do it.

Unfortunately, it is regret that we ourselves forgot to run this project in
the Apache way, and there is no excuse. We will bear in mind to forecast
any plan and initial the discussion in the community at the first time.

We still need time to get used to this principle. We will try our best to
stick to it but pls. alarm us when you observe something goes wrong, as you
always do.

ps, this activity for the interns will last for the next two weeks.

Your sincerely,
-Ian.


On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 7:17 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
> > Hi, mark
> >
> > Sorry for disturbing all of you.
>
> No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a concern.
>
> My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
> going on that the project wasn't aware of.
>
> A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
> the same issue.
>
> > This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
> > it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us
>
> If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
> request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
> the dev@ mailing list.
>
> If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
> request on this list.
>
> My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
> hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
> something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
> yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
> that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
> the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
> conversation needs to move to the mailing list.
>
> To provide some examples:
>
> I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
> Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
> receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
> think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
> is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
> and I'll take a look."
>
> I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
> issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
> template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
> users@ mailing list.
>
> > to
> > provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project, and
> > we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.
>
> Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
> men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
> use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.
>
> I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
> expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
> discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.
>
> > Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many
> emails,
> > which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways, such
> > as one team fix issues separated from each other.
>
> It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
> appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
> the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
> in my role as a mentor.
>
> Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
> multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
> duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
> that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
> I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
> that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
> possible experience.
>
> > Do you guys have any other suggestions?
>
> More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
> notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
> to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
> activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
> planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
> happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
> moving on to dev@ list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

On 15/08/18 14:09, Jerrick Zhu wrote:
> Hi, mark
> 
> Sorry for disturbing all of you.

No need to apologise. The additional traffic wasn't, and isn't, a concern.

My concern was that it appeared that there was some sort of organisation
going on that the project wasn't aware of.

A secondary concern was that multiple teams seemed to be writing PRs for
the same issue.

> This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
> it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us

If by us, you mean "the Alibaba employees who work on Dubbo" then that
request should have been redirected to the Dubbo community - which means
the dev@ mailing list.

If by us, you mean "the Dubbo community" then I don't recall seeing that
request on this list.

My concern here is that folks appear to have mixed up their "employee"
hat and their "Apache committer" hat. It is easy to do and so is
something to keep in mind. A good general rule is that whenever you find
yourself discussing anything related to the project at work (or anywhere
that isn't the project mailing lists), ask yourself "Why isn't this on
the dev@ list?". In my experience it is nearly always the case that the
conversation needs to move to the mailing list.

To provide some examples:

I am employed by Pivotal and Pivotal employs the committers on the
Spring Boot project which embeds Apache Tomcat. From time to time I
receive a work e-mail, slack message or similar along the lines of "We
think we have found a bug in Tomcat. Can you look at it?". My response
is invariably "Sure. Please create an issue in the Tomcat issue tracker
and I'll take a look."

I also receive direct email from Tomcat users asking for help with an
issue they are having. This happens often enough that I have a e-mail
template for the reply that directs them to ask their question on the
users@ mailing list.

> to
> provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project, and
> we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.

Please be aware that some people read "guys" as referring exclusively to
men. I recommend that you try to use a more inclusive term. I tend to
use "folks". "people" usually works as an alternative as well.

I do think this is an excellent way to increase interest in Dubbo and
expand the community. Please don't take anything I am saying as
discouragement of this effort. I am fully supportive of it.

> Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many emails,
> which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways, such
> as one team fix issues separated from each other.

It bears repeating. The volume of email was not a concern. It was the
appearance of some sort of organisation of project effort going on that
the project community was not aware of. That rings alarms bells for me
in my role as a mentor.

Regarding separating issues between teams, there are pros and cons of
multiple teams trying to fix the same issue. The work might be
duplicated but, equally, they might learn from the different approaches
that the other teams took. I don't have a view one way or the other. All
I suggest (and this is more for the people managing the students) is
that the issue is thought about to ensure that the students get the best
possible experience.

> Do you guys have any other suggestions?

More of a comment than a suggestion. Given the volume of activity on the
notifications@ list, the activity on dev@ seems rather low. I'd expect
to see more discussion, more commentary, more planning given the
activity levels. It is possible that this discussion, commentary and
planning just isn't happening but I do find myself wondering if it is
happening off-list. If that is the case, it *really* needs to start
moving on to dev@ list.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: Use of "Team N" in issues and PRs

[Jerrick Zhu <je...@apache.org>]

Hi, mark

Sorry for disturbing all of you.

This is an activity for students to participate in open source project,
it's held by department named BaiJi, Alibaba. They came us and asked us to
provide some simple issues that students can fully engage OS project, and
we agreed. We also wants more guys to join Dubbo, to contribute.

Now we have noticed that the PRs came together and generate so many emails,
which had disturbed you. We will consider other more effective ways, such
as one team fix issues separated from each other.

Do you guys have any other suggestions?

Sorry for that again.

Sincerely.

Jerrick

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:07 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:

> Why have we started to see around 50% of issues and PRs marked with a
> Team number?
>
> Mark
>