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Posted to dev@royale.apache.org by Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com> on 2019/12/06 20:00:05 UTC
A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack workspace (
the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels there for
coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by creating and
using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions through email
threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
--
Andrew Wetmore
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
I'm ok to create the channel and then be used by the people that can / have
time.
We can have make the paths an some of them will be used and other not...
Thanks
El lun., 9 dic. 2019 a las 6:45, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
> I don't see any harm in creating the channel. If it never gets used, no
> big deal AFAICT. Unless someone can think of why we need to be careful,
> I'd say it is in the category of "might help, won't hurt" so JFDI.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 12/8/19, 4:04 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As @Harbs says, if we had a channel, it would only be available to
> people
> with an Apache email address, so it can't be a support channel or a
> way of
> easing new folks into the project. If we used it, it would be for
> exploring
> ideas, hammering out misunderstandings, testing positioning, co-writing
> slogans and other such stuff.
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 5:54 PM Harbs <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Anyone with an apache.org <
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=P1kwRCZ%2FIq4fsYpHff5BOgR%2BK7wnjcPSD7dQdNfPxlw%3D&reserved=0>
> email address can join the
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthe-asf.slack.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=ZttOmUqrMLD9%2BRgoYyOVwMNlenjZAMrV67vvWf20PtU%3D&reserved=0
> <
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthe-asf.slack.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=ZttOmUqrMLD9%2BRgoYyOVwMNlenjZAMrV67vvWf20PtU%3D&reserved=0>
> Slack group.
> >
> > I’m not sure about non-committers. It’s definitely not the place to
> > discuss things that belong on the list and I don’t think it’s a good
> place
> > for additional support channels.
> >
> > It might be useful for real-time collaboration on getting things
> done. For
> > that, we should add a royale channel.
> >
> > I can go either way on that. I already use Slack for other things,
> so it’s
> > not a big deal for me to add another channel.
> >
> > Harbs
> >
> > > On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Carlos Rovira <
> carlosrovira@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Andrew,
> > >
> > > if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache
> > Royale"
> > > or the way it should be to make it more official.
> > > Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on
> website
> > > and Social media so people know about it.
> > > We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe
> > relevant
> > > people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
> > > and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in
> the
> > > project need to be posted in @dev list
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<
> cottage14@gmail.com>)
> > > escribió:
> > >
> > >> Hi, Alex:
> > >>
> > >> I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale.
> I
> > needed
> > >> to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he
> did not
> > see
> > >> me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point,
> I had
> > not
> > >> known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about
> whether it
> > was
> > >> a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
> > >>
> > >> There are several Royale email threads where the conversations
> would
> > have
> > >> been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had
> carried
> > them
> > >> out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated
> email
> > >> messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN
> ADVANCE
> > which
> > >> question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be
> avoided
> > in a
> > >> near-live discussion.
> > >>
> > >> I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to
> do the
> > same
> > >> thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have
> > appeared,
> > >> and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by
> not
> > >> extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than
> > presuming I
> > >> could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to
> curate
> > the
> > >> information that I personally need, and others may not experience
> this
> > >> problem.
> > >>
> > >> Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up
> for
> > >> Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful.
> If I
> > do,
> > >> I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will
> know
> > it is
> > >> there.
> > >>
> > >> Andrew
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui
> <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that
> Slack does
> > >> for
> > >>> other projects.
> > >>>
> > >>> Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a
> couple
> > >> of
> > >>> Royale conversations from any of our mailing
> lists/forums/whatever
> > that
> > >>> you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some
> > editing
> > >>> of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since
> it isn't
> > >>> super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
> > >> certainly
> > >>> ask the few other people you are working with to choose a
> chat-app on
> > an
> > >>> ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result
> in
> > some
> > >>> decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the
> chat
> > >> wraps
> > >>> up.
> > >>>
> > >>> IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF
> have a
> > set
> > >>> of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated
> stuff.
> > >>> Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
> > >> collaborate
> > >>> with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to
> be
> > >> plugged
> > >>> into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure
> there
> > are
> > >>> many committers who work on framework code every day.
> > >>>
> > >>> My 2 cents,
> > >>> -Alex
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Andrew Wetmore
> > >>
> > >>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=cd95m9qwKbAzjGEj8jiz2jPJyxbagifIJvatmNbxNLE%3D&reserved=0
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos Rovira
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=jLrU%2B53lVmQfkkkl%2FI0DCMDynkjMKInQd2khRlrgLpE%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=cd95m9qwKbAzjGEj8jiz2jPJyxbagifIJvatmNbxNLE%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
I don't see any harm in creating the channel. If it never gets used, no big deal AFAICT. Unless someone can think of why we need to be careful, I'd say it is in the category of "might help, won't hurt" so JFDI.
-Alex
On 12/8/19, 4:04 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
As @Harbs says, if we had a channel, it would only be available to people
with an Apache email address, so it can't be a support channel or a way of
easing new folks into the project. If we used it, it would be for exploring
ideas, hammering out misunderstandings, testing positioning, co-writing
slogans and other such stuff.
On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 5:54 PM Harbs <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone with an apache.org <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=P1kwRCZ%2FIq4fsYpHff5BOgR%2BK7wnjcPSD7dQdNfPxlw%3D&reserved=0> email address can join the
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthe-asf.slack.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=ZttOmUqrMLD9%2BRgoYyOVwMNlenjZAMrV67vvWf20PtU%3D&reserved=0 <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthe-asf.slack.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=ZttOmUqrMLD9%2BRgoYyOVwMNlenjZAMrV67vvWf20PtU%3D&reserved=0> Slack group.
>
> I’m not sure about non-committers. It’s definitely not the place to
> discuss things that belong on the list and I don’t think it’s a good place
> for additional support channels.
>
> It might be useful for real-time collaboration on getting things done. For
> that, we should add a royale channel.
>
> I can go either way on that. I already use Slack for other things, so it’s
> not a big deal for me to add another channel.
>
> Harbs
>
> > On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache
> Royale"
> > or the way it should be to make it more official.
> > Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on website
> > and Social media so people know about it.
> > We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe
> relevant
> > people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
> > and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in the
> > project need to be posted in @dev list
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<co...@gmail.com>)
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Hi, Alex:
> >>
> >> I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I
> needed
> >> to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not
> see
> >> me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had
> not
> >> known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it
> was
> >> a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
> >>
> >> There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would
> have
> >> been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried
> them
> >> out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
> >> messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE
> which
> >> question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided
> in a
> >> near-live discussion.
> >>
> >> I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the
> same
> >> thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have
> appeared,
> >> and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
> >> extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than
> presuming I
> >> could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate
> the
> >> information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
> >> Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I
> do,
> >> I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know
> it is
> >> there.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does
> >> for
> >>> other projects.
> >>>
> >>> Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple
> >> of
> >>> Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever
> that
> >>> you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some
> editing
> >>> of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't
> >>> super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
> >> certainly
> >>> ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on
> an
> >>> ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in
> some
> >>> decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat
> >> wraps
> >>> up.
> >>>
> >>> IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a
> set
> >>> of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
> >>> Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
> >> collaborate
> >>> with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be
> >> plugged
> >>> into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there
> are
> >>> many committers who work on framework code every day.
> >>>
> >>> My 2 cents,
> >>> -Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Andrew Wetmore
> >>
> >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=cd95m9qwKbAzjGEj8jiz2jPJyxbagifIJvatmNbxNLE%3D&reserved=0
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=jLrU%2B53lVmQfkkkl%2FI0DCMDynkjMKInQd2khRlrgLpE%3D&reserved=0
>
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Caffef5ad990842dafcaa08d77c3b5da4%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637114466763027979&sdata=cd95m9qwKbAzjGEj8jiz2jPJyxbagifIJvatmNbxNLE%3D&reserved=0
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>.
As @Harbs says, if we had a channel, it would only be available to people
with an Apache email address, so it can't be a support channel or a way of
easing new folks into the project. If we used it, it would be for exploring
ideas, hammering out misunderstandings, testing positioning, co-writing
slogans and other such stuff.
On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 5:54 PM Harbs <ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone with an apache.org <http://apache.org/> email address can join the
> https://the-asf.slack.com/ <https://the-asf.slack.com/> Slack group.
>
> I’m not sure about non-committers. It’s definitely not the place to
> discuss things that belong on the list and I don’t think it’s a good place
> for additional support channels.
>
> It might be useful for real-time collaboration on getting things done. For
> that, we should add a royale channel.
>
> I can go either way on that. I already use Slack for other things, so it’s
> not a big deal for me to add another channel.
>
> Harbs
>
> > On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache
> Royale"
> > or the way it should be to make it more official.
> > Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on website
> > and Social media so people know about it.
> > We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe
> relevant
> > people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
> > and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in the
> > project need to be posted in @dev list
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<co...@gmail.com>)
> > escribió:
> >
> >> Hi, Alex:
> >>
> >> I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I
> needed
> >> to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not
> see
> >> me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had
> not
> >> known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it
> was
> >> a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
> >>
> >> There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would
> have
> >> been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried
> them
> >> out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
> >> messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE
> which
> >> question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided
> in a
> >> near-live discussion.
> >>
> >> I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the
> same
> >> thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have
> appeared,
> >> and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
> >> extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than
> presuming I
> >> could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate
> the
> >> information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
> >> Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I
> do,
> >> I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know
> it is
> >> there.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does
> >> for
> >>> other projects.
> >>>
> >>> Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple
> >> of
> >>> Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever
> that
> >>> you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some
> editing
> >>> of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't
> >>> super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
> >> certainly
> >>> ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on
> an
> >>> ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in
> some
> >>> decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat
> >> wraps
> >>> up.
> >>>
> >>> IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a
> set
> >>> of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
> >>> Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
> >> collaborate
> >>> with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be
> >> plugged
> >>> into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there
> are
> >>> many committers who work on framework code every day.
> >>>
> >>> My 2 cents,
> >>> -Alex
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Andrew Wetmore
> >>
> >> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
Anyone with an apache.org <http://apache.org/> email address can join the https://the-asf.slack.com/ <https://the-asf.slack.com/> Slack group.
I’m not sure about non-committers. It’s definitely not the place to discuss things that belong on the list and I don’t think it’s a good place for additional support channels.
It might be useful for real-time collaboration on getting things done. For that, we should add a royale channel.
I can go either way on that. I already use Slack for other things, so it’s not a big deal for me to add another channel.
Harbs
> On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache Royale"
> or the way it should be to make it more official.
> Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on website
> and Social media so people know about it.
> We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe relevant
> people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
> and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in the
> project need to be posted in @dev list
>
> Thanks
>
>
> El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<co...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
>> Hi, Alex:
>>
>> I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I needed
>> to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not see
>> me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had not
>> known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it was
>> a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
>>
>> There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would have
>> been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried them
>> out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
>> messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE which
>> question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided in a
>> near-live discussion.
>>
>> I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the same
>> thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have appeared,
>> and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
>> extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than presuming I
>> could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate the
>> information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
>> problem.
>>
>> Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
>> Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I do,
>> I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know it is
>> there.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does
>> for
>>> other projects.
>>>
>>> Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple
>> of
>>> Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever that
>>> you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some editing
>>> of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't
>>> super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
>> certainly
>>> ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on an
>>> ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in some
>>> decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat
>> wraps
>>> up.
>>>
>>> IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a set
>>> of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
>>> Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
>> collaborate
>>> with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be
>> plugged
>>> into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there are
>>> many committers who work on framework code every day.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> -Alex
>>>
>>>
>> Andrew Wetmore
>>
>> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Greg Dove <gr...@gmail.com>.
I'm keen on a Slack channel. But I don't personally consider it as a great
idea for offering support unless we can make sure we get new participants
to linger and start offering support to others (grow the community).
Otherwise I think that if people ask for support in a real-time channel,
they generally expect a real-time response - they are hoping to avoid the
effort and potential delay of a SO entry. And I'm not sure we can meet
those expectations with our current resources. The SO approach seems more
manageable to me. If we could 'grow the community' for peer support via SO,
and then start inviting active people from SO to participate in realtime
support via something like Slack alongside us, then I think it might be a
more prudent approach to make it 'work' as a support channel.
Why I am keen on Slack is more in terms of collaboration possibilities. And
I don't view our separation in terms of time zones to be a hindrance here.
A tool like this just makes certain types of collaboration and
communication possible that are impractical or very inefficient via list,
which I also agree it should not undermine. Maybe we can have some sort of
informal guide for this, to make sure that key decisions are always
'list-first' and the realtime tool is primarily used for actual
collaboration on doc content, features or improvements (perhaps with a need
to to have a summary thread on list for certain types of topics, so
everyone has at least a 'helicopter view' of anything major)
my two cents.... Greg
On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 10:07 AM Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Give this thread more time so more active PMCs express their thoughts
> about slack channel before you make noise about that trough social media.
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019, 9:22 PM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache
> Royale"
> > or the way it should be to make it more official.
> > Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on website
> > and Social media so people know about it.
> > We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe
> relevant
> > people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
> > and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in the
> > project need to be posted in @dev list
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<co...@gmail.com>)
> > escribió:
> >
> > > Hi, Alex:
> > >
> > > I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I
> > needed
> > > to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not
> > see
> > > me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had
> > not
> > > known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it
> > was
> > > a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
> > >
> > > There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would
> have
> > > been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried
> > them
> > > out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
> > > messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE
> > which
> > > question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided
> > in a
> > > near-live discussion.
> > >
> > > I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the
> > same
> > > thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have
> > appeared,
> > > and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
> > > extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than
> presuming
> > I
> > > could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate
> > the
> > > information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
> > > Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I
> > do,
> > > I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know
> it
> > is
> > > there.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack
> does
> > > for
> > > > other projects.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a
> couple
> > > of
> > > > Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever
> > that
> > > > you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some
> > editing
> > > > of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it
> isn't
> > > > super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
> > > certainly
> > > > ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on
> > an
> > > > ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in
> > some
> > > > decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat
> > > wraps
> > > > up.
> > > >
> > > > IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a
> > set
> > > > of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
> > > > Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
> > > collaborate
> > > > with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be
> > > plugged
> > > > into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there
> > are
> > > > many committers who work on framework code every day.
> > > >
> > > > My 2 cents,
> > > > -Alex
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Andrew Wetmore
> > >
> > > http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >
>
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>.
Hi Carlos,
Give this thread more time so more active PMCs express their thoughts
about slack channel before you make noise about that trough social media.
Thanks,
Piotr
On Sun, Dec 8, 2019, 9:22 PM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache Royale"
> or the way it should be to make it more official.
> Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on website
> and Social media so people know about it.
> We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe relevant
> people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
> and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in the
> project need to be posted in @dev list
>
> Thanks
>
>
> El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<co...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
> > Hi, Alex:
> >
> > I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I
> needed
> > to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not
> see
> > me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had
> not
> > known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it
> was
> > a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
> >
> > There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would have
> > been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried
> them
> > out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
> > messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE
> which
> > question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided
> in a
> > near-live discussion.
> >
> > I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the
> same
> > thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have
> appeared,
> > and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
> > extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than presuming
> I
> > could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate
> the
> > information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
> > problem.
> >
> > Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
> > Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I
> do,
> > I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know it
> is
> > there.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does
> > for
> > > other projects.
> > >
> > > Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple
> > of
> > > Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever
> that
> > > you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some
> editing
> > > of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't
> > > super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
> > certainly
> > > ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on
> an
> > > ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in
> some
> > > decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat
> > wraps
> > > up.
> > >
> > > IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a
> set
> > > of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
> > > Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
> > collaborate
> > > with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be
> > plugged
> > > into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there
> are
> > > many committers who work on framework code every day.
> > >
> > > My 2 cents,
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > >
> > Andrew Wetmore
> >
> > http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
> >
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Hi Andrew,
if you open a Slack channel in The-ASF Slack try to call it "Apache Royale"
or the way it should be to make it more official.
Then post here so we can add to it, and finally I can post it on website
and Social media so people know about it.
We just need to let people clear that is a help channel and maybe relevant
people on the community will be not there (disclaimer)
and that every thing that should be discussed to make it happen in the
project need to be posted in @dev list
Thanks
El dom., 8 dic. 2019 a las 13:51, Andrew Wetmore (<co...@gmail.com>)
escribió:
> Hi, Alex:
>
> I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I needed
> to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not see
> me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had not
> known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it was
> a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
>
> There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would have
> been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried them
> out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
> messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE which
> question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided in a
> near-live discussion.
>
> I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the same
> thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have appeared,
> and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
> extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than presuming I
> could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate the
> information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
> problem.
>
> Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
> Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I do,
> I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know it is
> there.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does
> for
> > other projects.
> >
> > Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple
> of
> > Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever that
> > you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some editing
> > of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't
> > super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can
> certainly
> > ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on an
> > ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in some
> > decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat
> wraps
> > up.
> >
> > IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a set
> > of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
> > Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't
> collaborate
> > with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be
> plugged
> > into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there are
> > many committers who work on framework code every day.
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> > -Alex
> >
> >
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Alex:
I should clarify that I am "Slack-curious" in relation to Royale. I needed
to discuss some things with an ASF staffer and he said that he did not see
me on the ASF Slack workspace, and asked how come. To that point, I had not
known there WAS such a workspace. That made me curious about whether it was
a resource Royale might consider using in some situations.
There are several Royale email threads where the conversations would have
been shorter, clearer, and possibly more productive if we had carried them
out in real-time, rather than firing increasingly-exasperated email
messages back and forth; but I don't think anyone can tell IN ADVANCE which
question is going to generate a wrangle by email that might be avoided in a
near-live discussion.
I find it easier to search a Slack thread for a keyword than to do the same
thing across all the Royale-related emails in which it might have appeared,
and I know I have mislaid valuable Royale-related information by not
extracting it from the email thread when I saw it, rather than presuming I
could find it again. This may be mainly due to my own failure to curate the
information that I personally need, and others may not experience this
problem.
Slack channels within the workspace are free, so I may set one up for
Royale to have it ready against the time when it might be useful. If I do,
I will mention its name (in an email haha) so others on dev will know it is
there.
Andrew
On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 4:02 AM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does for
> other projects.
>
> Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple of
> Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever that
> you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some editing
> of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't
> super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can certainly
> ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on an
> ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in some
> decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat wraps
> up.
>
> IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a set
> of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff.
> Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't collaborate
> with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be plugged
> into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there are
> many committers who work on framework code every day.
>
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
>
>
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
I agree that Stack Overflow solves a different problem that Slack does for other projects.
Andrew, if you are still interested in Slack, can you think of a couple of Royale conversations from any of our mailing lists/forums/whatever that you think would have worked better on Slack? I suppose that some editing of the documentation/website would be better done on IRC since it isn't super important to most of the subscribers to dev@, but you can certainly ask the few other people you are working with to choose a chat-app on an ad-hoc basis for that one discussion if it isn't going to result in some decision or if the decision will be proposed on dev@ after the chat wraps up.
IIRC, the projects I've heard that are using Slack at the ASF have a set of paid committers that work at the same time on interrelated stuff. Certain teams within Adobe use Slack but I don't since I don't collaborate with other Adobe engineers. For the most part, I don't need to be plugged into any team effort on Royale most of the time. I'm not sure there are many committers who work on framework code every day.
My 2 cents,
-Alex
On 12/7/19, 5:36 AM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
I see Stack Overflow as a marketing opportunity for us and an entry point
for people with questions, not really as a conversation tool for the Royale
project itself. I think anything of substance that emerges from a Stack
Overflow conversation needs to migrate into the project, either as a bug
report or as part of the documentation.
a
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 9:13 AM Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Stack Overflow.
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 11:21 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What is "SOF"?
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 4:03 AM Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All
> > >
> > > I'm -1 to use any other tool than mailing list with this project. It
> > > increases only traffic for everyone. Another tool which needs to be
> > > maintained and we definitely have much more bigger fish to fry.
> > >
> > > We have SOF already as an addition to mailing list and in my opinion
> it's
> > > really enough.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Piotr
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 8:38 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Andrew,,
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy with mailing list but the only point is when people outside
> > the
> > > > Apache eco-system want to interact with us. They use to post on
> social
> > > > media networks, or direct emails and so on, and then we need to
> derive
> > > > here, what could be something they want or not.
> > > >
> > > > It would be great to use some tool that will be more easily
> accessible
> > by
> > > > all people or that most of new comers would have directly. But don't
> > know
> > > > what could be.
> > > >
> > > > Real time chats does not seems to me something to drive discussion
> for
> > > the
> > > > same reason Alex mentioned. We are all in different time zones and
> some
> > > > times responses delay 10-12 hours.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding Slack tool in concrete, my main concern is that my
> experience
> > > is
> > > > really bad with it since most of the times I don't get push
> > notifications
> > > > on my iPhone. While other tools like Telegram works always, Slack
> > don't,
> > > > and that means sometimes I don't notice a conversation for days. With
> > > that
> > > > in mind is a surprise for me that Slack get so popular, or maybe I
> have
> > > > something wrong with it in my devices...
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, If we want to use Slack, I think it's ok since as many
> channels
> > > we
> > > > have the better. Just warn people that maybe not all of us will be
> > there.
> > > > Or not always available. And key discussions should come to the list.
> > > > Helping there could be in some cases more easy to do.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > El vie., 6 dic. 2019 a las 21:23, Alex Harui
> (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
> > > >)
> > > > escribió:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack
> > > > workspace
> > > > > (
> > > > > the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels
> > there
> > > > for
> > > > > coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by
> > > creating
> > > > > and
> > > > > using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions
> > through
> > > > > email
> > > > > threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key
> > > > > principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to
> > > follow
> > > > > the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have
> to
> > > be
> > > > > subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@.
> Some
> > > > > projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too
> > much.
> > > > It
> > > > > isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only
> refined
> > > > > proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those
> > who
> > > > > aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the
> early
> > > > > discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or
> not
> > on
> > > > > during the interactive discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider
> that
> > > rule
> > > > > as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some
> countries
> > > like
> > > > > China.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to
> not
> > > use
> > > > > it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the
> > > vast
> > > > > majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I
> > won't
> > > be
> > > > > around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others
> > roughly
> > > in
> > > > > your time zone get work done, go for it.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Alex
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carlos Rovira
> > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cf95028a7f30e47a4abf008d77b1a736d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637113225880909875&sdata=yPM5msP%2BRTrhvsrSls%2BEl7KsLg02ghzNjbC6RpmjC98%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Wetmore
> >
> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cf95028a7f30e47a4abf008d77b1a736d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637113225880909875&sdata=9VtfS96gOlF5na%2FHugCNLoF6JsYIah3fGNYI1KMDc0A%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcottage14.blogspot.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cf95028a7f30e47a4abf008d77b1a736d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637113225880909875&sdata=9VtfS96gOlF5na%2FHugCNLoF6JsYIah3fGNYI1KMDc0A%3D&reserved=0
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>.
I see Stack Overflow as a marketing opportunity for us and an entry point
for people with questions, not really as a conversation tool for the Royale
project itself. I think anything of substance that emerges from a Stack
Overflow conversation needs to migrate into the project, either as a bug
report or as part of the documentation.
a
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 9:13 AM Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Stack Overflow.
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 11:21 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What is "SOF"?
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 4:03 AM Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All
> > >
> > > I'm -1 to use any other tool than mailing list with this project. It
> > > increases only traffic for everyone. Another tool which needs to be
> > > maintained and we definitely have much more bigger fish to fry.
> > >
> > > We have SOF already as an addition to mailing list and in my opinion
> it's
> > > really enough.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Piotr
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 8:38 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Andrew,,
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy with mailing list but the only point is when people outside
> > the
> > > > Apache eco-system want to interact with us. They use to post on
> social
> > > > media networks, or direct emails and so on, and then we need to
> derive
> > > > here, what could be something they want or not.
> > > >
> > > > It would be great to use some tool that will be more easily
> accessible
> > by
> > > > all people or that most of new comers would have directly. But don't
> > know
> > > > what could be.
> > > >
> > > > Real time chats does not seems to me something to drive discussion
> for
> > > the
> > > > same reason Alex mentioned. We are all in different time zones and
> some
> > > > times responses delay 10-12 hours.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding Slack tool in concrete, my main concern is that my
> experience
> > > is
> > > > really bad with it since most of the times I don't get push
> > notifications
> > > > on my iPhone. While other tools like Telegram works always, Slack
> > don't,
> > > > and that means sometimes I don't notice a conversation for days. With
> > > that
> > > > in mind is a surprise for me that Slack get so popular, or maybe I
> have
> > > > something wrong with it in my devices...
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, If we want to use Slack, I think it's ok since as many
> channels
> > > we
> > > > have the better. Just warn people that maybe not all of us will be
> > there.
> > > > Or not always available. And key discussions should come to the list.
> > > > Helping there could be in some cases more easy to do.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > El vie., 6 dic. 2019 a las 21:23, Alex Harui
> (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
> > > >)
> > > > escribió:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack
> > > > workspace
> > > > > (
> > > > > the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels
> > there
> > > > for
> > > > > coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by
> > > creating
> > > > > and
> > > > > using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions
> > through
> > > > > email
> > > > > threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key
> > > > > principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to
> > > follow
> > > > > the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have
> to
> > > be
> > > > > subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@.
> Some
> > > > > projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too
> > much.
> > > > It
> > > > > isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only
> refined
> > > > > proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those
> > who
> > > > > aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the
> early
> > > > > discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or
> not
> > on
> > > > > during the interactive discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider
> that
> > > rule
> > > > > as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some
> countries
> > > like
> > > > > China.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to
> not
> > > use
> > > > > it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the
> > > vast
> > > > > majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I
> > won't
> > > be
> > > > > around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others
> > roughly
> > > in
> > > > > your time zone get work done, go for it.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Alex
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carlos Rovira
> > > > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Wetmore
> >
> > http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
> >
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>.
Stack Overflow.
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 11:21 AM Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is "SOF"?
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 4:03 AM Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > I'm -1 to use any other tool than mailing list with this project. It
> > increases only traffic for everyone. Another tool which needs to be
> > maintained and we definitely have much more bigger fish to fry.
> >
> > We have SOF already as an addition to mailing list and in my opinion it's
> > really enough.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Piotr
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 8:38 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andrew,,
> > >
> > > I'm happy with mailing list but the only point is when people outside
> the
> > > Apache eco-system want to interact with us. They use to post on social
> > > media networks, or direct emails and so on, and then we need to derive
> > > here, what could be something they want or not.
> > >
> > > It would be great to use some tool that will be more easily accessible
> by
> > > all people or that most of new comers would have directly. But don't
> know
> > > what could be.
> > >
> > > Real time chats does not seems to me something to drive discussion for
> > the
> > > same reason Alex mentioned. We are all in different time zones and some
> > > times responses delay 10-12 hours.
> > >
> > > Regarding Slack tool in concrete, my main concern is that my experience
> > is
> > > really bad with it since most of the times I don't get push
> notifications
> > > on my iPhone. While other tools like Telegram works always, Slack
> don't,
> > > and that means sometimes I don't notice a conversation for days. With
> > that
> > > in mind is a surprise for me that Slack get so popular, or maybe I have
> > > something wrong with it in my devices...
> > >
> > > Anyway, If we want to use Slack, I think it's ok since as many channels
> > we
> > > have the better. Just warn people that maybe not all of us will be
> there.
> > > Or not always available. And key discussions should come to the list.
> > > Helping there could be in some cases more easy to do.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > El vie., 6 dic. 2019 a las 21:23, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
> > >)
> > > escribió:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack
> > > workspace
> > > > (
> > > > the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels
> there
> > > for
> > > > coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by
> > creating
> > > > and
> > > > using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions
> through
> > > > email
> > > > threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
> > > >
> > > > I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key
> > > > principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to
> > follow
> > > > the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have to
> > be
> > > > subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@. Some
> > > > projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too
> much.
> > > It
> > > > isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only refined
> > > > proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those
> who
> > > > aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the early
> > > > discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or not
> on
> > > > during the interactive discussion.
> > > >
> > > > That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider that
> > rule
> > > > as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some countries
> > like
> > > > China.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to not
> > use
> > > > it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the
> > vast
> > > > majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I
> won't
> > be
> > > > around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others
> roughly
> > in
> > > > your time zone get work done, go for it.
> > > >
> > > > -Alex
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos Rovira
> > > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Andrew Wetmore <co...@gmail.com>.
What is "SOF"?
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 4:03 AM Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I'm -1 to use any other tool than mailing list with this project. It
> increases only traffic for everyone. Another tool which needs to be
> maintained and we definitely have much more bigger fish to fry.
>
> We have SOF already as an addition to mailing list and in my opinion it's
> really enough.
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 8:38 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew,,
> >
> > I'm happy with mailing list but the only point is when people outside the
> > Apache eco-system want to interact with us. They use to post on social
> > media networks, or direct emails and so on, and then we need to derive
> > here, what could be something they want or not.
> >
> > It would be great to use some tool that will be more easily accessible by
> > all people or that most of new comers would have directly. But don't know
> > what could be.
> >
> > Real time chats does not seems to me something to drive discussion for
> the
> > same reason Alex mentioned. We are all in different time zones and some
> > times responses delay 10-12 hours.
> >
> > Regarding Slack tool in concrete, my main concern is that my experience
> is
> > really bad with it since most of the times I don't get push notifications
> > on my iPhone. While other tools like Telegram works always, Slack don't,
> > and that means sometimes I don't notice a conversation for days. With
> that
> > in mind is a surprise for me that Slack get so popular, or maybe I have
> > something wrong with it in my devices...
> >
> > Anyway, If we want to use Slack, I think it's ok since as many channels
> we
> > have the better. Just warn people that maybe not all of us will be there.
> > Or not always available. And key discussions should come to the list.
> > Helping there could be in some cases more easy to do.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El vie., 6 dic. 2019 a las 21:23, Alex Harui (<aharui@adobe.com.invalid
> >)
> > escribió:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack
> > workspace
> > > (
> > > the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels there
> > for
> > > coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by
> creating
> > > and
> > > using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions through
> > > email
> > > threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
> > >
> > > I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key
> > > principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to
> follow
> > > the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have to
> be
> > > subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@. Some
> > > projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too much.
> > It
> > > isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only refined
> > > proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those who
> > > aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the early
> > > discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or not on
> > > during the interactive discussion.
> > >
> > > That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider that
> rule
> > > as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some countries
> like
> > > China.
> > >
> > > I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to not
> use
> > > it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the
> vast
> > > majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I won't
> be
> > > around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others roughly
> in
> > > your time zone get work done, go for it.
> > >
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Rovira
> > http://about.me/carlosrovira
> >
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Piotr Zarzycki <pi...@gmail.com>.
Hi All
I'm -1 to use any other tool than mailing list with this project. It
increases only traffic for everyone. Another tool which needs to be
maintained and we definitely have much more bigger fish to fry.
We have SOF already as an addition to mailing list and in my opinion it's
really enough.
Thanks,
Piotr
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 8:38 AM Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Andrew,,
>
> I'm happy with mailing list but the only point is when people outside the
> Apache eco-system want to interact with us. They use to post on social
> media networks, or direct emails and so on, and then we need to derive
> here, what could be something they want or not.
>
> It would be great to use some tool that will be more easily accessible by
> all people or that most of new comers would have directly. But don't know
> what could be.
>
> Real time chats does not seems to me something to drive discussion for the
> same reason Alex mentioned. We are all in different time zones and some
> times responses delay 10-12 hours.
>
> Regarding Slack tool in concrete, my main concern is that my experience is
> really bad with it since most of the times I don't get push notifications
> on my iPhone. While other tools like Telegram works always, Slack don't,
> and that means sometimes I don't notice a conversation for days. With that
> in mind is a surprise for me that Slack get so popular, or maybe I have
> something wrong with it in my devices...
>
> Anyway, If we want to use Slack, I think it's ok since as many channels we
> have the better. Just warn people that maybe not all of us will be there.
> Or not always available. And key discussions should come to the list.
> Helping there could be in some cases more easy to do.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El vie., 6 dic. 2019 a las 21:23, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
> escribió:
>
> >
> >
> > On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack
> workspace
> > (
> > the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels there
> for
> > coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by creating
> > and
> > using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions through
> > email
> > threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
> >
> > I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key
> > principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to follow
> > the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have to be
> > subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@. Some
> > projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too much.
> It
> > isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only refined
> > proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those who
> > aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the early
> > discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or not on
> > during the interactive discussion.
> >
> > That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider that rule
> > as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some countries like
> > China.
> >
> > I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to not use
> > it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the vast
> > majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I won't be
> > around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others roughly in
> > your time zone get work done, go for it.
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@apache.org>.
Hi Andrew,,
I'm happy with mailing list but the only point is when people outside the
Apache eco-system want to interact with us. They use to post on social
media networks, or direct emails and so on, and then we need to derive
here, what could be something they want or not.
It would be great to use some tool that will be more easily accessible by
all people or that most of new comers would have directly. But don't know
what could be.
Real time chats does not seems to me something to drive discussion for the
same reason Alex mentioned. We are all in different time zones and some
times responses delay 10-12 hours.
Regarding Slack tool in concrete, my main concern is that my experience is
really bad with it since most of the times I don't get push notifications
on my iPhone. While other tools like Telegram works always, Slack don't,
and that means sometimes I don't notice a conversation for days. With that
in mind is a surprise for me that Slack get so popular, or maybe I have
something wrong with it in my devices...
Anyway, If we want to use Slack, I think it's ok since as many channels we
have the better. Just warn people that maybe not all of us will be there.
Or not always available. And key discussions should come to the list.
Helping there could be in some cases more easy to do.
Thanks!
El vie., 6 dic. 2019 a las 21:23, Alex Harui (<ah...@adobe.com.invalid>)
escribió:
>
>
> On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack workspace
> (
> the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels there for
> coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by creating
> and
> using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions through
> email
> threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
>
> I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key
> principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to follow
> the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have to be
> subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@. Some
> projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too much. It
> isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only refined
> proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those who
> aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the early
> discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or not on
> during the interactive discussion.
>
> That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider that rule
> as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some countries like
> China.
>
> I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to not use
> it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the vast
> majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I won't be
> around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others roughly in
> your time zone get work done, go for it.
>
> -Alex
>
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: A Royale channel on the Apache Slack workspace
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
On 12/6/19, 12:00 PM, "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
I recently had some dealings with ASF staff on the ASF Slack workspace (
the-asf.slack.com). Some projects seem to maintain channels there for
coordinating work, but not Royale. Would we gain anything by creating and
using such a channel as opposed to running all discussions through email
threads? Or would this just add one more thing to worry about?
I've seen lots of concern about Slack on the board list. One key principle of Apache projects is that committers should be able to follow the project by only being subscribed to dev@. You shouldn't have to be subscribed elsewhere, not even users@ and especially private@. Some projects have gotten in trouble for using Slack and other IRC too much. It isn't that every discussion has to be on dev@, really, only refined proposals leading to decisions need to be on dev@, but then those who aren't involved in the early discussions feel left out, or the early discussion gets voided by input from those not on the channel or not on during the interactive discussion.
That said, the ASF is probably going to be forced to reconsider that rule as chat-based development discussions are the norm in some countries like China.
I'm not opposed to a Slack channel for Royale, but I will try to not use it mainly to make sure there is enough traffic on dev@. Also, the vast majority of active committers are not in the US where I am, so I won't be around to interact most often. But if it helps you and others roughly in your time zone get work done, go for it.
-Alex