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Posted to dev@polaris.apache.org by Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> on 2024/12/06 18:25:22 UTC
Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Hi Folks,
I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to Slack.
While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a more
robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
*Why Consider Slack?*
1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations, making
it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat seamlessly.
2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms Zulip in
terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with Zulip on my
laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period for
chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are primarily used
for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as proposals,
release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
prioritize the use of email lists.
*Proposed Transition Plan*
- *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt and
provide feedback before fully committing.
- *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris Zulip
instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains accessible
for future reference.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s interest, I can
take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
Looking forward to your feedback!
Yufei
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Tyler Akidau <ta...@apache.org>.
I have struggled to use Zulip effectively and would definitely feel more
connected to the community via Slack. I would be supportive.
-Tyler
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 10:26 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to Slack.
> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a more
> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>
>
> *Why Consider Slack?*
>
> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations, making
> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat seamlessly.
> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms Zulip in
> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with Zulip on
> my
> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period for
> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are primarily
> used
> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as proposals,
> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> prioritize the use of email lists.
>
> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>
> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt and
> provide feedback before fully committing.
> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris Zulip
> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> accessible
> for future reference.
>
> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s interest, I can
> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>
>
> Looking forward to your feedback!
>
>
> Yufei
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>.
This sounds great to me. Thanks, Yufei!
Mike
> On Dec 11, 2024, at 5:03 PM, Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor Slack.
> Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue with Slack,
> and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns out not
> working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the Iceberg
> Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost for them
> would be minimal.
>
>
> I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
>
> Yufei
>
>
>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I think the
>> fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack in spite
>> of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked to on the
>> site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
>>
>> Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but my
>> suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
>> developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
>>
>> --EM
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and Polaris)
>>> with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we use
>> the
>>> ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
>>>
>>> My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best for
>> the
>>> community (for both communication and growth).
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <ru...@gmail.com>
>> a
>>> écrit :
>>>
>>>> I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my other
>>> chats
>>>> I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
>> importantly
>>>> for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
>>> objections
>>>> because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I
>>> probably
>>>> should have objected since I really didn’t understand how different it
>>> was
>>>> from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for
>>> anything
>>>> but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a
>>> members
>>>> of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat apps.
>> I
>>>> think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap (which
>>> for
>>>> reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a full
>>>> fledged Slack instance.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work
>> (I
>>>>> personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the
>>> official
>>>>> Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
>>>>>
>>>>> There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
>>>>> arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a
>>>>> related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to
>>>>> change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
>>>> especially
>>>>> not after a few hundred users joined.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even
>>> on
>>>> a
>>>>> lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of
>>> other
>>>>> really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a
>>> couple
>>>>> Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it
>>>> does
>>>>> not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just
>> adds
>>>>> (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux
>>> and
>>>>> macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install
>>> an
>>>>> application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open
>>> source
>>>>> projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their
>>> own
>>>>> OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
>>>>>
>>>>> Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it
>>>>> potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another
>> point
>>>>> where Zulip excels over Slack.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
>>>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris
>>> Slack
>>>>>> workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
>>> notifications
>>>>>> would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In
>>>>> addition
>>>>>> to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
>>>> workspaces
>>>>>> open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
>>>>>> notifications are batched together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>>>>>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is
>> not
>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in
>> the
>>>>> Iceberg
>>>>>>> slack workspace?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Dmitri.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
>>>> collado.mike@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mailing list
>>>>>>>> Iceberg Slack
>>>>>>>> GitHub
>>>>>>>> Zulip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep
>>> up
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in
>>>> slack
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
>>>>>>>> occasional user questions…
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>>>>>>>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my
>>>> phone
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client
>>>> version
>>>>>>>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
>>> version....
>>>>>>> IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Dmitri.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip
>> to
>>>>>>>> Slack.
>>>>>>>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack
>>> offers a
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
>>> organizations,
>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
>>>>>>>>> seamlessly.
>>>>>>>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
>> outperforms
>>>>>>> Zulip
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes
>> with
>>>>>>> Zulip
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
>>>>>>>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention
>>> period
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
>>>>>>>> primarily
>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
>>>>>>>> proposals,
>>>>>>>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will
>> continue
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip
>>> for a
>>>>>>>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to
>>> adapt
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
>>>>>>>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
>>>>>>> Zulip
>>>>>>>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data
>>> remains
>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>> for future reference.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
>>>>>>> interest, I
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up
>> Slack
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yufei
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
Thanks, Yufei! The new link works well :)
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 1:23 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The invitation link(
>
> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
> )
> works well. The Iceberg site also uses an invitation link. Updated the site
> in https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/548. Please take a look!
>
> Yufei
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:06 AM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I see the same. However, there are some people in slack using email
> > addresses that are neither gmail, apple, nor apache email addresses. I'm
> > guessing that could be their iCloud-associated email address though.
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>.
The invitation link(
https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ)
works well. The Iceberg site also uses an invitation link. Updated the site
in https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/548. Please take a look!
Yufei
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:06 AM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I see the same. However, there are some people in slack using email
> addresses that are neither gmail, apple, nor apache email addresses. I'm
> guessing that could be their iCloud-associated email address though.
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>.
I see the same. However, there are some people in slack using email
addresses that are neither gmail, apple, nor apache email addresses. I'm
guessing that could be their iCloud-associated email address though.
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
Apparently images are discarded... Here's the text that was my concern:
"Don’t have an *@apache.org <http://apache.org>* email address? Contact the
workspace administrator at *Apache-Polaris* for an invitation."
Cheers,
Dmitri.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 12:51 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov <
dmitri.bourlatchkov@dremio.com> wrote:
> Hi Yufei,
>
> I followed the link [2] from the Polaris Community page [1], then chose
> "create an account" [3], which gave me the information on the screenshot.
>
> I do not really see an option for non-Google, non-Apage personal email
> there.
>
> Do you get a different page from [3]?
>
> Cheers,
> Dmitri.
>
> [1] https://polaris.apache.org/community/
> [2] https://apache-polaris.slack.com/
> [3] https://apache-polaris.slack.com/signup#/domain-signup
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 12:23 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dimtri,
>>
>> I couldn't see the image you posted, but it shouldn't enforce an apache
>> email address. Many people joined with their personal email addresses. It
>> may prompt with an apache email, but any email should be fine.
>>
>> Yufei
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 8:21 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > It looks like the same Apache email obstacle is present in the Polaris
>> > Slack?
>> >
>> > I followed the link from the current web side, then chose "create
>> account"
>> > and got:
>> >
>> > [image: image.png]
>> > Cheers,
>> > Dmitri.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 7:03 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> People used to have trouble joining the ASF Slack workspace, here is a
>> >> related discussion, https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/1804.
>> We'd
>> >> not
>> >> go that route.
>> >>
>> >> Created a new Slack workspace for Polaris (
>> >> https://apache-polaris.slack.com).
>> >> Please follow this link to join,
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yufei
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 5:30 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
>> >> > invite anyone.
>> >> >
>> >> > We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o
>> email
>> >> > address).
>> >> >
>> >> > For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
>> >> > already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
>> >> >
>> >> > As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
>> >> > helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
>> >> > Slack workspace that's OK.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards
>> >> > JB
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <ajanthabhat@gmail.com
>> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hi JB,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an
>> apache
>> >> > email
>> >> > > address.
>> >> > > If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add
>> >> them
>> >> > > individually by their email address.
>> >> > > There is no invite link concept for users to join (
>> >> > > https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
>> >> > > Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be
>> >> > multiple
>> >> > > channels.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I
>> observed
>> >> > that
>> >> > > users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will
>> >> definitely
>> >> > > be useful.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > - Ajantha
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>> jb@nanthrax.net
>> >> >
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Hi Yufei,
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would
>> rather
>> >> > > > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Regards
>> >> > > > JB
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Hi Folks,
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor
>> >> Slack.
>> >> > > > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try
>> as an
>> >> > > > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue
>> >> with
>> >> > > > Slack,
>> >> > > > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it
>> turns
>> >> > out not
>> >> > > > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in
>> the
>> >> > > > Iceberg
>> >> > > > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration
>> cost
>> >> for
>> >> > them
>> >> > > > > would be minimal.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Yufei
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <
>> >> > eric.w.maynard@gmail.com>
>> >> > > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip,
>> I
>> >> > think
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on
>> >> Slack
>> >> > in
>> >> > > > spite
>> >> > > > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform
>> linked
>> >> > to on
>> >> > > > the
>> >> > > > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and
>> Slack,
>> >> but
>> >> > my
>> >> > > > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the
>> typical
>> >> > > > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than
>> >> Zulip.
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > --EM
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>> >> > jb@nanthrax.net>
>> >> > > > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > Hi
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel
>> and
>> >> > > > Polaris)
>> >> > > > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to
>> Slack
>> >> if
>> >> > we
>> >> > > > use
>> >> > > > > > the
>> >> > > > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or
>> >> > cloudstack).
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s
>> the
>> >> > best
>> >> > > > for
>> >> > > > > > the
>> >> > > > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > Regards
>> >> > > > > > > JB
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
>> >> > > > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
>> >> > > > > > a
>> >> > > > > > > écrit :
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me
>> >> all my
>> >> > > > other
>> >> > > > > > > chats
>> >> > > > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and
>> most
>> >> > > > > > importantly
>> >> > > > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have
>> >> strong
>> >> > > > > > > objections
>> >> > > > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it
>> out,
>> >> > but I
>> >> > > > > > > probably
>> >> > > > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
>> >> > > > different it
>> >> > > > > > > was
>> >> > > > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a
>> strong
>> >> -1
>> >> > for
>> >> > > > > > > anything
>> >> > > > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to
>> >> also
>> >> > be a
>> >> > > > > > > members
>> >> > > > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force
>> two
>> >> > chat
>> >> > > > apps.
>> >> > > > > > I
>> >> > > > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice
>> >> > stopgap
>> >> > > > (which
>> >> > > > > > > for
>> >> > > > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better
>> >> have
>> >> > a
>> >> > > > full
>> >> > > > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
>> >> > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <
>> >> snazy@snazy.de>
>> >> > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is
>> too
>> >> > much
>> >> > > > work
>> >> > > > > > (I
>> >> > > > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct
>> users
>> >> to
>> >> > the
>> >> > > > > > > official
>> >> > > > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip
>> particularly
>> >> > strong
>> >> > > > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial
>> discussion
>> >> [1]
>> >> > nor
>> >> > > > in a
>> >> > > > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s
>> a
>> >> good
>> >> > > > idea to
>> >> > > > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple
>> of
>> >> > weeks,
>> >> > > > > > > > especially
>> >> > > > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s
>> >> clear
>> >> > view
>> >> > > > even
>> >> > > > > > > on
>> >> > > > > > > > a
>> >> > > > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine
>> >> for a
>> >> > lot
>> >> > > > of
>> >> > > > > > > other
>> >> > > > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus,
>> >> Wildfly
>> >> > and
>> >> > > > a
>> >> > > > > > > couple
>> >> > > > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy
>> to
>> >> > join,
>> >> > > > as it
>> >> > > > > > > > does
>> >> > > > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat
>> >> systems
>> >> > > > just
>> >> > > > > > adds
>> >> > > > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is
>> >> stable
>> >> > on
>> >> > > > Linux
>> >> > > > > > > and
>> >> > > > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t
>> >> want to
>> >> > > > install
>> >> > > > > > > an
>> >> > > > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very
>> supportive
>> >> of
>> >> > open
>> >> > > > > > > source
>> >> > > > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very
>> >> communicative
>> >> > in
>> >> > > > their
>> >> > > > > > > own
>> >> > > > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another
>> >> > service.
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project -
>> *especially*
>> >> > when
>> >> > > > it
>> >> > > > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This
>> is
>> >> > another
>> >> > > > > > point
>> >> > > > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > Robert
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
>> >> > > > > > > > > [2]
>> >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
>> >> > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
>> >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel
>> with
>> >> a
>> >> > > > Polaris
>> >> > > > > > > Slack
>> >> > > > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the
>> >> chat
>> >> > > > > > > notifications
>> >> > > > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack
>> notifications
>> >> we
>> >> > get.
>> >> > > > In
>> >> > > > > > > > > addition
>> >> > > > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source
>> >> > project
>> >> > > > > > > > workspaces
>> >> > > > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler
>> >> since
>> >> > > > all the
>> >> > > > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > Mine
>> >> > > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>> >> > > > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack
>> >> > channel
>> >> > > > is
>> >> > > > > > not
>> >> > > > > > > > > going
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris
>> >> > channel
>> >> > > > in
>> >> > > > > > the
>> >> > > > > > > > > Iceberg
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
>> >> > > > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris
>> >> include
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> GitHub
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Zulip
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels
>> I
>> >> > have to
>> >> > > > keep
>> >> > > > > > > up
>> >> > > > > > > > > with
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and
>> I’m
>> >> > > > already in
>> >> > > > > > > > slack
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> all
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_
>> >> ever
>> >> > > > used for
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it
>> all.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the
>> Zulip
>> >> > App
>> >> > > > on my
>> >> > > > > > > > phone
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> and
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and
>> stability
>> >> > > > problems.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new
>> >> desktop
>> >> > > > client
>> >> > > > > > > > version
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a
>> >> patch
>> >> > > > > > > version....
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> IIRC.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
>> >> > > > flyrain000@gmail.com>
>> >> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat
>> platform
>> >> > from
>> >> > > > Zulip
>> >> > > > > > to
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Slack.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I
>> believe
>> >> > Slack
>> >> > > > > > > offers a
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> more
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used
>> across
>> >> > > > > > > organizations,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> making
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to
>> join
>> >> > and
>> >> > > > chat
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack
>> consistently
>> >> > > > > > outperforms
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> in
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced
>> occasional
>> >> > crashes
>> >> > > > > > with
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> on
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> my
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter
>> >> > retention
>> >> > > > > > > period
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> for
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as
>> chat
>> >> > tools
>> >> > > > are
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> primarily
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> used
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal
>> >> communication,
>> >> > such
>> >> > > > as
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>> proposals,
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions,
>> we
>> >> will
>> >> > > > > > continue
>> >> > > > > > > to
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack
>> >> alongside
>> >> > > > Zulip
>> >> > > > > > > for a
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team
>> >> > members
>> >> > > > to
>> >> > > > > > > adapt
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> and
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut
>> down
>> >> the
>> >> > > > Polaris
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical
>> >> chat
>> >> > data
>> >> > > > > > > remains
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal.
>> If
>> >> > there’s
>> >> > > > > > > > > >> interest, I
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> can
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including
>> >> > setting up
>> >> > > > > > Slack
>> >> > > > > > > > and
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > > >
>> >> > > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
Hi Yufei,
I followed the link [2] from the Polaris Community page [1], then chose
"create an account" [3], which gave me the information on the screenshot.
I do not really see an option for non-Google, non-Apage personal email
there.
Do you get a different page from [3]?
Cheers,
Dmitri.
[1] https://polaris.apache.org/community/
[2] https://apache-polaris.slack.com/
[3] https://apache-polaris.slack.com/signup#/domain-signup
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 12:23 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dimtri,
>
> I couldn't see the image you posted, but it shouldn't enforce an apache
> email address. Many people joined with their personal email addresses. It
> may prompt with an apache email, but any email should be fine.
>
> Yufei
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 8:21 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > It looks like the same Apache email obstacle is present in the Polaris
> > Slack?
> >
> > I followed the link from the current web side, then chose "create
> account"
> > and got:
> >
> > [image: image.png]
> > Cheers,
> > Dmitri.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 7:03 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> People used to have trouble joining the ASF Slack workspace, here is a
> >> related discussion, https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/1804. We'd
> >> not
> >> go that route.
> >>
> >> Created a new Slack workspace for Polaris (
> >> https://apache-polaris.slack.com).
> >> Please follow this link to join,
> >>
> >>
> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >> Yufei
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 5:30 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
> >> > invite anyone.
> >> >
> >> > We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o email
> >> > address).
> >> >
> >> > For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
> >> > already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
> >> >
> >> > As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
> >> > helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
> >> > Slack workspace that's OK.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> > JB
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi JB,
> >> > >
> >> > > Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache
> >> > email
> >> > > address.
> >> > > If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add
> >> them
> >> > > individually by their email address.
> >> > > There is no invite link concept for users to join (
> >> > > https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
> >> > > Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be
> >> > multiple
> >> > > channels.
> >> > >
> >> > > I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I
> observed
> >> > that
> >> > > users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will
> >> definitely
> >> > > be useful.
> >> > >
> >> > > - Ajantha
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> jb@nanthrax.net
> >> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hi Yufei,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would
> rather
> >> > > > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Regards
> >> > > > JB
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hi Folks,
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor
> >> Slack.
> >> > > > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as
> an
> >> > > > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue
> >> with
> >> > > > Slack,
> >> > > > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it
> turns
> >> > out not
> >> > > > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in
> the
> >> > > > Iceberg
> >> > > > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost
> >> for
> >> > them
> >> > > > > would be minimal.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yufei
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <
> >> > eric.w.maynard@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I
> >> > think
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on
> >> Slack
> >> > in
> >> > > > spite
> >> > > > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform
> linked
> >> > to on
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack,
> >> but
> >> > my
> >> > > > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the
> typical
> >> > > > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than
> >> Zulip.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > --EM
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> >> > jb@nanthrax.net>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Hi
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel
> and
> >> > > > Polaris)
> >> > > > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack
> >> if
> >> > we
> >> > > > use
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or
> >> > cloudstack).
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s
> the
> >> > best
> >> > > > for
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Regards
> >> > > > > > > JB
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
> >> > > > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > écrit :
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me
> >> all my
> >> > > > other
> >> > > > > > > chats
> >> > > > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and
> most
> >> > > > > > importantly
> >> > > > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have
> >> strong
> >> > > > > > > objections
> >> > > > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it
> out,
> >> > but I
> >> > > > > > > probably
> >> > > > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
> >> > > > different it
> >> > > > > > > was
> >> > > > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong
> >> -1
> >> > for
> >> > > > > > > anything
> >> > > > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to
> >> also
> >> > be a
> >> > > > > > > members
> >> > > > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force
> two
> >> > chat
> >> > > > apps.
> >> > > > > > I
> >> > > > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice
> >> > stopgap
> >> > > > (which
> >> > > > > > > for
> >> > > > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better
> >> have
> >> > a
> >> > > > full
> >> > > > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <
> >> snazy@snazy.de>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is
> too
> >> > much
> >> > > > work
> >> > > > > > (I
> >> > > > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct
> users
> >> to
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > > official
> >> > > > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip
> particularly
> >> > strong
> >> > > > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion
> >> [1]
> >> > nor
> >> > > > in a
> >> > > > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a
> >> good
> >> > > > idea to
> >> > > > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple
> of
> >> > weeks,
> >> > > > > > > > especially
> >> > > > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s
> >> clear
> >> > view
> >> > > > even
> >> > > > > > > on
> >> > > > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine
> >> for a
> >> > lot
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > > > > other
> >> > > > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus,
> >> Wildfly
> >> > and
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > > > > couple
> >> > > > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy
> to
> >> > join,
> >> > > > as it
> >> > > > > > > > does
> >> > > > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat
> >> systems
> >> > > > just
> >> > > > > > adds
> >> > > > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is
> >> stable
> >> > on
> >> > > > Linux
> >> > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t
> >> want to
> >> > > > install
> >> > > > > > > an
> >> > > > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very
> supportive
> >> of
> >> > open
> >> > > > > > > source
> >> > > > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very
> >> communicative
> >> > in
> >> > > > their
> >> > > > > > > own
> >> > > > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another
> >> > service.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project -
> *especially*
> >> > when
> >> > > > it
> >> > > > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is
> >> > another
> >> > > > > > point
> >> > > > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Robert
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> >> > > > > > > > > [2]
> >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
> >> > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel
> with
> >> a
> >> > > > Polaris
> >> > > > > > > Slack
> >> > > > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the
> >> chat
> >> > > > > > > notifications
> >> > > > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications
> >> we
> >> > get.
> >> > > > In
> >> > > > > > > > > addition
> >> > > > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source
> >> > project
> >> > > > > > > > workspaces
> >> > > > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler
> >> since
> >> > > > all the
> >> > > > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > Mine
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> >> > > > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack
> >> > channel
> >> > > > is
> >> > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > > going
> >> > > > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris
> >> > channel
> >> > > > in
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > Iceberg
> >> > > > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> >> > > > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris
> >> include
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> GitHub
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Zulip
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I
> >> > have to
> >> > > > keep
> >> > > > > > > up
> >> > > > > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and
> I’m
> >> > > > already in
> >> > > > > > > > slack
> >> > > > > > > > > >> all
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_
> >> ever
> >> > > > used for
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the
> Zulip
> >> > App
> >> > > > on my
> >> > > > > > > > phone
> >> > > > > > > > > >> and
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
> >> > > > problems.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new
> >> desktop
> >> > > > client
> >> > > > > > > > version
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a
> >> patch
> >> > > > > > > version....
> >> > > > > > > > > >> IIRC.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
> >> > > > flyrain000@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat
> platform
> >> > from
> >> > > > Zulip
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> Slack.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I
> believe
> >> > Slack
> >> > > > > > > offers a
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> more
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used
> across
> >> > > > > > > organizations,
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> making
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to
> join
> >> > and
> >> > > > chat
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack
> consistently
> >> > > > > > outperforms
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> in
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced
> occasional
> >> > crashes
> >> > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> on
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> my
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter
> >> > retention
> >> > > > > > > period
> >> > > > > > > > > >> for
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as
> chat
> >> > tools
> >> > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> primarily
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> used
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal
> >> communication,
> >> > such
> >> > > > as
> >> > > > > > > > > >>> proposals,
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we
> >> will
> >> > > > > > continue
> >> > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack
> >> alongside
> >> > > > Zulip
> >> > > > > > > for a
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team
> >> > members
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > > adapt
> >> > > > > > > > > >> and
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut
> down
> >> the
> >> > > > Polaris
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical
> >> chat
> >> > data
> >> > > > > > > remains
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal.
> If
> >> > there’s
> >> > > > > > > > > >> interest, I
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>> can
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including
> >> > setting up
> >> > > > > > Slack
> >> > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Dimtri,
I couldn't see the image you posted, but it shouldn't enforce an apache
email address. Many people joined with their personal email addresses. It
may prompt with an apache email, but any email should be fine.
Yufei
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 8:21 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
<dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> It looks like the same Apache email obstacle is present in the Polaris
> Slack?
>
> I followed the link from the current web side, then chose "create account"
> and got:
>
> [image: image.png]
> Cheers,
> Dmitri.
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 7:03 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> People used to have trouble joining the ASF Slack workspace, here is a
>> related discussion, https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/1804. We'd
>> not
>> go that route.
>>
>> Created a new Slack workspace for Polaris (
>> https://apache-polaris.slack.com).
>> Please follow this link to join,
>>
>> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
>> .
>>
>>
>> Yufei
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 5:30 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
>> > invite anyone.
>> >
>> > We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o email
>> > address).
>> >
>> > For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
>> > already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
>> >
>> > As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
>> > helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
>> > Slack workspace that's OK.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > JB
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi JB,
>> > >
>> > > Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache
>> > email
>> > > address.
>> > > If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add
>> them
>> > > individually by their email address.
>> > > There is no invite link concept for users to join (
>> > > https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
>> > > Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be
>> > multiple
>> > > channels.
>> > >
>> > > I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I observed
>> > that
>> > > users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will
>> definitely
>> > > be useful.
>> > >
>> > > - Ajantha
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net
>> >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Yufei,
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
>> > > > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards
>> > > > JB
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hi Folks,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor
>> Slack.
>> > > > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
>> > > > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue
>> with
>> > > > Slack,
>> > > > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns
>> > out not
>> > > > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the
>> > > > Iceberg
>> > > > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost
>> for
>> > them
>> > > > > would be minimal.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yufei
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <
>> > eric.w.maynard@gmail.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I
>> > think
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on
>> Slack
>> > in
>> > > > spite
>> > > > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked
>> > to on
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack,
>> but
>> > my
>> > > > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
>> > > > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than
>> Zulip.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --EM
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>> > jb@nanthrax.net>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and
>> > > > Polaris)
>> > > > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack
>> if
>> > we
>> > > > use
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or
>> > cloudstack).
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the
>> > best
>> > > > for
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Regards
>> > > > > > > JB
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
>> > > > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > écrit :
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me
>> all my
>> > > > other
>> > > > > > > chats
>> > > > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
>> > > > > > importantly
>> > > > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have
>> strong
>> > > > > > > objections
>> > > > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out,
>> > but I
>> > > > > > > probably
>> > > > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
>> > > > different it
>> > > > > > > was
>> > > > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong
>> -1
>> > for
>> > > > > > > anything
>> > > > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to
>> also
>> > be a
>> > > > > > > members
>> > > > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two
>> > chat
>> > > > apps.
>> > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice
>> > stopgap
>> > > > (which
>> > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better
>> have
>> > a
>> > > > full
>> > > > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <
>> snazy@snazy.de>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too
>> > much
>> > > > work
>> > > > > > (I
>> > > > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users
>> to
>> > the
>> > > > > > > official
>> > > > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly
>> > strong
>> > > > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion
>> [1]
>> > nor
>> > > > in a
>> > > > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a
>> good
>> > > > idea to
>> > > > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of
>> > weeks,
>> > > > > > > > especially
>> > > > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s
>> clear
>> > view
>> > > > even
>> > > > > > > on
>> > > > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine
>> for a
>> > lot
>> > > > of
>> > > > > > > other
>> > > > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus,
>> Wildfly
>> > and
>> > > > a
>> > > > > > > couple
>> > > > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to
>> > join,
>> > > > as it
>> > > > > > > > does
>> > > > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat
>> systems
>> > > > just
>> > > > > > adds
>> > > > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is
>> stable
>> > on
>> > > > Linux
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t
>> want to
>> > > > install
>> > > > > > > an
>> > > > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive
>> of
>> > open
>> > > > > > > source
>> > > > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very
>> communicative
>> > in
>> > > > their
>> > > > > > > own
>> > > > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another
>> > service.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially*
>> > when
>> > > > it
>> > > > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is
>> > another
>> > > > > > point
>> > > > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Robert
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
>> > > > > > > > > [2]
>> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
>> > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with
>> a
>> > > > Polaris
>> > > > > > > Slack
>> > > > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the
>> chat
>> > > > > > > notifications
>> > > > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications
>> we
>> > get.
>> > > > In
>> > > > > > > > > addition
>> > > > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source
>> > project
>> > > > > > > > workspaces
>> > > > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler
>> since
>> > > > all the
>> > > > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Mine
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>> > > > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack
>> > channel
>> > > > is
>> > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > > going
>> > > > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris
>> > channel
>> > > > in
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > Iceberg
>> > > > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
>> > > > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
>> > > > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris
>> include
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
>> > > > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
>> > > > > > > > > >>> GitHub
>> > > > > > > > > >>> Zulip
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I
>> > have to
>> > > > keep
>> > > > > > > up
>> > > > > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m
>> > > > already in
>> > > > > > > > slack
>> > > > > > > > > >> all
>> > > > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_
>> ever
>> > > > used for
>> > > > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>> > > > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip
>> > App
>> > > > on my
>> > > > > > > > phone
>> > > > > > > > > >> and
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
>> > > > problems.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new
>> desktop
>> > > > client
>> > > > > > > > version
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a
>> patch
>> > > > > > > version....
>> > > > > > > > > >> IIRC.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
>> > > > flyrain000@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform
>> > from
>> > > > Zulip
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > >>> Slack.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe
>> > Slack
>> > > > > > > offers a
>> > > > > > > > > >>> more
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
>> > > > > > > organizations,
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> making
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join
>> > and
>> > > > chat
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
>> > > > > > outperforms
>> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> in
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional
>> > crashes
>> > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> on
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> my
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter
>> > retention
>> > > > > > > period
>> > > > > > > > > >> for
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat
>> > tools
>> > > > are
>> > > > > > > > > >>> primarily
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> used
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal
>> communication,
>> > such
>> > > > as
>> > > > > > > > > >>> proposals,
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we
>> will
>> > > > > > continue
>> > > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack
>> alongside
>> > > > Zulip
>> > > > > > > for a
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team
>> > members
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > > adapt
>> > > > > > > > > >> and
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down
>> the
>> > > > Polaris
>> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical
>> chat
>> > data
>> > > > > > > remains
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If
>> > there’s
>> > > > > > > > > >> interest, I
>> > > > > > > > > >>>> can
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including
>> > setting up
>> > > > > > Slack
>> > > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>>
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
It looks like the same Apache email obstacle is present in the Polaris
Slack?
I followed the link from the current web side, then chose "create account"
and got:
[image: image.png]
Cheers,
Dmitri.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 7:03 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> People used to have trouble joining the ASF Slack workspace, here is a
> related discussion, https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/1804. We'd
> not
> go that route.
>
> Created a new Slack workspace for Polaris (
> https://apache-polaris.slack.com).
> Please follow this link to join,
>
> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
> .
>
>
> Yufei
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 5:30 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
> > invite anyone.
> >
> > We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o email
> > address).
> >
> > For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
> > already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
> >
> > As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
> > helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
> > Slack workspace that's OK.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JB,
> > >
> > > Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache
> > email
> > > address.
> > > If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add them
> > > individually by their email address.
> > > There is no invite link concept for users to join (
> > > https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
> > > Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be
> > multiple
> > > channels.
> > >
> > > I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I observed
> > that
> > > users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will
> definitely
> > > be useful.
> > >
> > > - Ajantha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Yufei,
> > > >
> > > > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
> > > > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor
> Slack.
> > > > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> > > > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue
> with
> > > > Slack,
> > > > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns
> > out not
> > > > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the
> > > > Iceberg
> > > > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost
> for
> > them
> > > > > would be minimal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yufei
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <
> > eric.w.maynard@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I
> > think
> > > > the
> > > > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on
> Slack
> > in
> > > > spite
> > > > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked
> > to on
> > > > the
> > > > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack,
> but
> > my
> > > > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> > > > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --EM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > jb@nanthrax.net>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and
> > > > Polaris)
> > > > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if
> > we
> > > > use
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or
> > cloudstack).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the
> > best
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
> > > > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > écrit :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all
> my
> > > > other
> > > > > > > chats
> > > > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> > > > > > importantly
> > > > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have
> strong
> > > > > > > objections
> > > > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out,
> > but I
> > > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
> > > > different it
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1
> > for
> > > > > > > anything
> > > > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to
> also
> > be a
> > > > > > > members
> > > > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two
> > chat
> > > > apps.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice
> > stopgap
> > > > (which
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better
> have
> > a
> > > > full
> > > > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <snazy@snazy.de
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too
> > much
> > > > work
> > > > > > (I
> > > > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users
> to
> > the
> > > > > > > official
> > > > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly
> > strong
> > > > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion
> [1]
> > nor
> > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a
> good
> > > > idea to
> > > > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of
> > weeks,
> > > > > > > > especially
> > > > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear
> > view
> > > > even
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for
> a
> > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus,
> Wildfly
> > and
> > > > a
> > > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to
> > join,
> > > > as it
> > > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat
> systems
> > > > just
> > > > > > adds
> > > > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is
> stable
> > on
> > > > Linux
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want
> to
> > > > install
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive
> of
> > open
> > > > > > > source
> > > > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative
> > in
> > > > their
> > > > > > > own
> > > > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another
> > service.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially*
> > when
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is
> > another
> > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
> > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a
> > > > Polaris
> > > > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > > > > > > notifications
> > > > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we
> > get.
> > > > In
> > > > > > > > > addition
> > > > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source
> > project
> > > > > > > > workspaces
> > > > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler
> since
> > > > all the
> > > > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mine
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack
> > channel
> > > > is
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris
> > channel
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Iceberg
> > > > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris
> include
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > > > > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > > > > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I
> > have to
> > > > keep
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m
> > > > already in
> > > > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_
> ever
> > > > used for
> > > > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip
> > App
> > > > on my
> > > > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
> > > > problems.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new
> desktop
> > > > client
> > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a
> patch
> > > > > > > version....
> > > > > > > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
> > > > flyrain000@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform
> > from
> > > > Zulip
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe
> > Slack
> > > > > > > offers a
> > > > > > > > > >>> more
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > > > > > > organizations,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> making
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join
> > and
> > > > chat
> > > > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> > > > > > outperforms
> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional
> > crashes
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> my
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter
> > retention
> > > > > > > period
> > > > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat
> > tools
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > > >>> primarily
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> used
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication,
> > such
> > > > as
> > > > > > > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we
> will
> > > > > > continue
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack
> alongside
> > > > Zulip
> > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team
> > members
> > > > to
> > > > > > > adapt
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down
> the
> > > > Polaris
> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat
> > data
> > > > > > > remains
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If
> > there’s
> > > > > > > > > >> interest, I
> > > > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including
> > setting up
> > > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Great !
We should update the website with the link. I will do that.
Let’s keep Zulip and Slack for now.
Regards
JB
Le ven. 13 déc. 2024 à 01:03, Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> People used to have trouble joining the ASF Slack workspace, here is a
> related discussion, https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/1804. We'd
> not
> go that route.
>
> Created a new Slack workspace for Polaris (
> https://apache-polaris.slack.com).
> Please follow this link to join,
>
> https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
> .
>
>
> Yufei
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 5:30 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
> > invite anyone.
> >
> > We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o email
> > address).
> >
> > For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
> > already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
> >
> > As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
> > helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
> > Slack workspace that's OK.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JB,
> > >
> > > Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache
> > email
> > > address.
> > > If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add them
> > > individually by their email address.
> > > There is no invite link concept for users to join (
> > > https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
> > > Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be
> > multiple
> > > channels.
> > >
> > > I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I observed
> > that
> > > users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will
> definitely
> > > be useful.
> > >
> > > - Ajantha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Yufei,
> > > >
> > > > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
> > > > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Folks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor
> Slack.
> > > > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> > > > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue
> with
> > > > Slack,
> > > > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns
> > out not
> > > > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the
> > > > Iceberg
> > > > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost
> for
> > them
> > > > > would be minimal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yufei
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <
> > eric.w.maynard@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I
> > think
> > > > the
> > > > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on
> Slack
> > in
> > > > spite
> > > > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked
> > to on
> > > > the
> > > > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack,
> but
> > my
> > > > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> > > > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --EM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > jb@nanthrax.net>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and
> > > > Polaris)
> > > > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if
> > we
> > > > use
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or
> > cloudstack).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the
> > best
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
> > > > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > écrit :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all
> my
> > > > other
> > > > > > > chats
> > > > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> > > > > > importantly
> > > > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have
> strong
> > > > > > > objections
> > > > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out,
> > but I
> > > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
> > > > different it
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1
> > for
> > > > > > > anything
> > > > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to
> also
> > be a
> > > > > > > members
> > > > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two
> > chat
> > > > apps.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice
> > stopgap
> > > > (which
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better
> have
> > a
> > > > full
> > > > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <snazy@snazy.de
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too
> > much
> > > > work
> > > > > > (I
> > > > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users
> to
> > the
> > > > > > > official
> > > > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly
> > strong
> > > > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion
> [1]
> > nor
> > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a
> good
> > > > idea to
> > > > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of
> > weeks,
> > > > > > > > especially
> > > > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear
> > view
> > > > even
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for
> a
> > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus,
> Wildfly
> > and
> > > > a
> > > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to
> > join,
> > > > as it
> > > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat
> systems
> > > > just
> > > > > > adds
> > > > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is
> stable
> > on
> > > > Linux
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want
> to
> > > > install
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive
> of
> > open
> > > > > > > source
> > > > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative
> > in
> > > > their
> > > > > > > own
> > > > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another
> > service.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially*
> > when
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is
> > another
> > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Robert
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
> > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a
> > > > Polaris
> > > > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > > > > > > notifications
> > > > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we
> > get.
> > > > In
> > > > > > > > > addition
> > > > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source
> > project
> > > > > > > > workspaces
> > > > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler
> since
> > > > all the
> > > > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mine
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack
> > channel
> > > > is
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris
> > channel
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Iceberg
> > > > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris
> include
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > > > > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > > > > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I
> > have to
> > > > keep
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m
> > > > already in
> > > > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_
> ever
> > > > used for
> > > > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip
> > App
> > > > on my
> > > > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
> > > > problems.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new
> desktop
> > > > client
> > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a
> patch
> > > > > > > version....
> > > > > > > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
> > > > flyrain000@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform
> > from
> > > > Zulip
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe
> > Slack
> > > > > > > offers a
> > > > > > > > > >>> more
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > > > > > > organizations,
> > > > > > > > > >>>> making
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join
> > and
> > > > chat
> > > > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> > > > > > outperforms
> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional
> > crashes
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> my
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter
> > retention
> > > > > > > period
> > > > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat
> > tools
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > > >>> primarily
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> used
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication,
> > such
> > > > as
> > > > > > > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we
> will
> > > > > > continue
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack
> alongside
> > > > Zulip
> > > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team
> > members
> > > > to
> > > > > > > adapt
> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down
> the
> > > > Polaris
> > > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat
> > data
> > > > > > > remains
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If
> > there’s
> > > > > > > > > >> interest, I
> > > > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including
> > setting up
> > > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>.
People used to have trouble joining the ASF Slack workspace, here is a
related discussion, https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/1804. We'd not
go that route.
Created a new Slack workspace for Polaris (https://apache-polaris.slack.com).
Please follow this link to join,
https://join.slack.com/t/apache-polaris/shared_invite/zt-2w1fddyh3-zqCeeJwn7wNvhn3mVT5njQ
.
Yufei
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 5:30 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
> invite anyone.
>
> We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o email
> address).
>
> For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
> already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
>
> As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
> helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
> Slack workspace that's OK.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi JB,
> >
> > Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache
> email
> > address.
> > If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add them
> > individually by their email address.
> > There is no invite link concept for users to join (
> > https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
> > Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be
> multiple
> > channels.
> >
> > I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I observed
> that
> > users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will definitely
> > be useful.
> >
> > - Ajantha
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Yufei,
> > >
> > > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
> > > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor Slack.
> > > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> > > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue with
> > > Slack,
> > > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns
> out not
> > > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the
> > > Iceberg
> > > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost for
> them
> > > > would be minimal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
> > > >
> > > > Yufei
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <
> eric.w.maynard@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I
> think
> > > the
> > > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack
> in
> > > spite
> > > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked
> to on
> > > the
> > > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but
> my
> > > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> > > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
> > > > >
> > > > > --EM
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> jb@nanthrax.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and
> > > Polaris)
> > > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if
> we
> > > use
> > > > > the
> > > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or
> cloudstack).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the
> best
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > JB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
> > > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
> > > > > a
> > > > > > écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my
> > > other
> > > > > > chats
> > > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> > > > > importantly
> > > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
> > > > > > objections
> > > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out,
> but I
> > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
> > > different it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1
> for
> > > > > > anything
> > > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also
> be a
> > > > > > members
> > > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two
> chat
> > > apps.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice
> stopgap
> > > (which
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have
> a
> > > full
> > > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too
> much
> > > work
> > > > > (I
> > > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to
> the
> > > > > > official
> > > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly
> strong
> > > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1]
> nor
> > > in a
> > > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good
> > > idea to
> > > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of
> weeks,
> > > > > > > especially
> > > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear
> view
> > > even
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a
> lot
> > > of
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly
> and
> > > a
> > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to
> join,
> > > as it
> > > > > > > does
> > > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems
> > > just
> > > > > adds
> > > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable
> on
> > > Linux
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to
> > > install
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of
> open
> > > > > > source
> > > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative
> in
> > > their
> > > > > > own
> > > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another
> service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially*
> when
> > > it
> > > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is
> another
> > > > > point
> > > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Robert
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > > > > > [2]
> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
> > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a
> > > Polaris
> > > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > > > > > notifications
> > > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we
> get.
> > > In
> > > > > > > > addition
> > > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source
> project
> > > > > > > workspaces
> > > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since
> > > all the
> > > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mine
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack
> channel
> > > is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris
> channel
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Iceberg
> > > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > > > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > > > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I
> have to
> > > keep
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m
> > > already in
> > > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever
> > > used for
> > > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip
> App
> > > on my
> > > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
> > > problems.
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop
> > > client
> > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
> > > > > > version....
> > > > > > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
> > > flyrain000@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform
> from
> > > Zulip
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe
> Slack
> > > > > > offers a
> > > > > > > > >>> more
> > > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > > > > > organizations,
> > > > > > > > >>>> making
> > > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join
> and
> > > chat
> > > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> > > > > outperforms
> > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional
> crashes
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > > > > >>>>> my
> > > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter
> retention
> > > > > > period
> > > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat
> tools
> > > are
> > > > > > > > >>> primarily
> > > > > > > > >>>>> used
> > > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication,
> such
> > > as
> > > > > > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will
> > > > > continue
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside
> > > Zulip
> > > > > > for a
> > > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team
> members
> > > to
> > > > > > adapt
> > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the
> > > Polaris
> > > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat
> data
> > > > > > remains
> > > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If
> there’s
> > > > > > > > >> interest, I
> > > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including
> setting up
> > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi,
The ASF slack is by invitation, but a committer or PPMC member can
invite anyone.
We have a bunch of invited people on The ASF Slack (without @a.o email address).
For me, it's weird to have another Slack workspace (my Slack client
already has too much ;) ), we are a ASF project after all :)
As said in a previous message, everything is fine to me as long as it
helps the community. If you think it's better to have a dedicated
Slack workspace that's OK.
Regards
JB
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi JB,
>
> Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache email
> address.
> If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add them
> individually by their email address.
> There is no invite link concept for users to join (
> https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
> Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be multiple
> channels.
>
> I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I observed that
> users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will definitely
> be useful.
>
> - Ajantha
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Yufei,
> >
> > I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
> > prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor Slack.
> > > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> > > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue with
> > Slack,
> > > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns out not
> > > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the
> > Iceberg
> > > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost for them
> > > would be minimal.
> > >
> > >
> > > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
> > >
> > > Yufei
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I think
> > the
> > > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack in
> > spite
> > > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked to on
> > the
> > > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> > > >
> > > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but my
> > > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> > > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
> > > >
> > > > --EM
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and
> > Polaris)
> > > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we
> > use
> > > > the
> > > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
> > > > >
> > > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > community (for both communication and growth).
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > JB
> > > > >
> > > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
> > russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
> > > > a
> > > > > écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my
> > other
> > > > > chats
> > > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> > > > importantly
> > > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
> > > > > objections
> > > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I
> > > > > probably
> > > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
> > different it
> > > > > was
> > > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for
> > > > > anything
> > > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a
> > > > > members
> > > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat
> > apps.
> > > > I
> > > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap
> > (which
> > > > > for
> > > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a
> > full
> > > > > > fledged Slack instance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much
> > work
> > > > (I
> > > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the
> > > > > official
> > > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> > > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor
> > in a
> > > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good
> > idea to
> > > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
> > > > > > especially
> > > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view
> > even
> > > > > on
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot
> > of
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and
> > a
> > > > > couple
> > > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join,
> > as it
> > > > > > does
> > > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems
> > just
> > > > adds
> > > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on
> > Linux
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to
> > install
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open
> > > > > source
> > > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in
> > their
> > > > > own
> > > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when
> > it
> > > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another
> > > > point
> > > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Robert
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > > > > [2]
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
> > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a
> > Polaris
> > > > > Slack
> > > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > > > > notifications
> > > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get.
> > In
> > > > > > > addition
> > > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
> > > > > > workspaces
> > > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since
> > all the
> > > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mine
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > Iceberg
> > > > > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to
> > keep
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m
> > already in
> > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever
> > used for
> > > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App
> > on my
> > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
> > problems.
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop
> > client
> > > > > > version
> > > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
> > > > > version....
> > > > > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
> > flyrain000@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from
> > Zulip
> > > > to
> > > > > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack
> > > > > offers a
> > > > > > > >>> more
> > > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > > > > organizations,
> > > > > > > >>>> making
> > > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and
> > chat
> > > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> > > > outperforms
> > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes
> > > > with
> > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > > > >>>>> my
> > > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention
> > > > > period
> > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools
> > are
> > > > > > > >>> primarily
> > > > > > > >>>>> used
> > > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such
> > as
> > > > > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will
> > > > continue
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside
> > Zulip
> > > > > for a
> > > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members
> > to
> > > > > adapt
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the
> > Polaris
> > > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data
> > > > > remains
> > > > > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> > > > > > > >> interest, I
> > > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up
> > > > Slack
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Ajantha Bhat <aj...@gmail.com>.
Hi JB,
Based on my experience, ASF slack is good only if you have an apache email
address.
If the users are not having apache email addresses, we have to add them
individually by their email address.
There is no invite link concept for users to join (
https://infra.apache.org/slack.html) to avoid spamming.
Also, it will be just a single channel per project, there can't be multiple
channels.
I prefer separate slack workspace. Maybe a paid version as I observed that
users ask the same questions, keeping history discussions will definitely
be useful.
- Ajantha
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 3:16 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
wrote:
> Hi Yufei,
>
> I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
> prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor Slack.
> > Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> > alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue with
> Slack,
> > and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns out not
> > working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the
> Iceberg
> > Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost for them
> > would be minimal.
> >
> >
> > I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
> >
> > Yufei
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I think
> the
> > > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack in
> spite
> > > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked to on
> the
> > > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> > >
> > > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but my
> > > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> > > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
> > >
> > > --EM
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and
> Polaris)
> > > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we
> use
> > > the
> > > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
> > > >
> > > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best
> for
> > > the
> > > > community (for both communication and growth).
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <
> russell.spitzer@gmail.com>
> > > a
> > > > écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my
> other
> > > > chats
> > > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> > > importantly
> > > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
> > > > objections
> > > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I
> > > > probably
> > > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how
> different it
> > > > was
> > > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for
> > > > anything
> > > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a
> > > > members
> > > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat
> apps.
> > > I
> > > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap
> (which
> > > > for
> > > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a
> full
> > > > > fledged Slack instance.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much
> work
> > > (I
> > > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the
> > > > official
> > > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> > > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor
> in a
> > > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good
> idea to
> > > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
> > > > > especially
> > > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view
> even
> > > > on
> > > > > a
> > > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot
> of
> > > > other
> > > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and
> a
> > > > couple
> > > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join,
> as it
> > > > > does
> > > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems
> just
> > > adds
> > > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on
> Linux
> > > > and
> > > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to
> install
> > > > an
> > > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open
> > > > source
> > > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in
> their
> > > > own
> > > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when
> it
> > > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another
> > > point
> > > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Robert
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > > > [2]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <
> collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a
> Polaris
> > > > Slack
> > > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > > > notifications
> > > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get.
> In
> > > > > > addition
> > > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
> > > > > workspaces
> > > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since
> all the
> > > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel
> is
> > > not
> > > > > > going
> > > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > Iceberg
> > > > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to
> keep
> > > > up
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m
> already in
> > > > > slack
> > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever
> used for
> > > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App
> on my
> > > > > phone
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability
> problems.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop
> client
> > > > > version
> > > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
> > > > version....
> > > > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <
> flyrain000@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from
> Zulip
> > > to
> > > > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack
> > > > offers a
> > > > > > >>> more
> > > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > > > organizations,
> > > > > > >>>> making
> > > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and
> chat
> > > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> > > outperforms
> > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes
> > > with
> > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > > >>>>> my
> > > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention
> > > > period
> > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools
> are
> > > > > > >>> primarily
> > > > > > >>>>> used
> > > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such
> as
> > > > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will
> > > continue
> > > > to
> > > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside
> Zulip
> > > > for a
> > > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members
> to
> > > > adapt
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the
> Polaris
> > > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data
> > > > remains
> > > > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> > > > > > >> interest, I
> > > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up
> > > Slack
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Yufei,
I don't think we should create a new Slack workspace. I would rather
prefer to have a channel on The ASF Slack.
Regards
JB
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 2:02 AM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor Slack.
> Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
> alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue with Slack,
> and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns out not
> working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the Iceberg
> Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost for them
> would be minimal.
>
>
> I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
>
> Yufei
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I think the
> > fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack in spite
> > of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked to on the
> > site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
> >
> > Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but my
> > suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> > developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
> >
> > --EM
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and Polaris)
> > > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we use
> > the
> > > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
> > >
> > > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best for
> > the
> > > community (for both communication and growth).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <ru...@gmail.com>
> > a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my other
> > > chats
> > > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> > importantly
> > > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
> > > objections
> > > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I
> > > probably
> > > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how different it
> > > was
> > > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for
> > > anything
> > > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a
> > > members
> > > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat apps.
> > I
> > > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap (which
> > > for
> > > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a full
> > > > fledged Slack instance.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work
> > (I
> > > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the
> > > official
> > > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > > >
> > > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> > > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a
> > > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to
> > > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
> > > > especially
> > > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > > >
> > > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even
> > > on
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of
> > > other
> > > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a
> > > couple
> > > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it
> > > > does
> > > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just
> > adds
> > > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux
> > > and
> > > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install
> > > an
> > > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open
> > > source
> > > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their
> > > own
> > > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
> > > > >
> > > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it
> > > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another
> > point
> > > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris
> > > Slack
> > > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > > notifications
> > > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In
> > > > > addition
> > > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
> > > > workspaces
> > > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
> > > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is
> > not
> > > > > going
> > > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in
> > the
> > > > > Iceberg
> > > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep
> > > up
> > > > > with
> > > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in
> > > > slack
> > > > > >> all
> > > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> > > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Mike
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my
> > > > phone
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client
> > > > version
> > > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
> > > version....
> > > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip
> > to
> > > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack
> > > offers a
> > > > > >>> more
> > > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > > organizations,
> > > > > >>>> making
> > > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> > > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> > outperforms
> > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes
> > with
> > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > >>>>> my
> > > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention
> > > period
> > > > > >> for
> > > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> > > > > >>> primarily
> > > > > >>>>> used
> > > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> > > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will
> > continue
> > > to
> > > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip
> > > for a
> > > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to
> > > adapt
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
> > > > > >> Zulip
> > > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data
> > > remains
> > > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> > > > > >> interest, I
> > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up
> > Slack
> > > > and
> > > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Folks,
Thanks a lot for all the feedback. The majority seems to favor Slack.
Some prefer Zulip. I feel like it’s worth giving Slack a try as an
alternative to Zulip. If everything works well, we can continue with Slack,
and even promote it to be the only one in the future. If it turns out not
working well, we can deprecate it. We can always ask people in the Iceberg
Slack channel to switch to Polaris workspace. The migration cost for them
would be minimal.
I will create a Slack workspace if you think it's worthwhile.
Yufei
On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 12:03 PM Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I think the
> fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack in spite
> of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked to on the
> site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
>
> Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but my
> suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
> developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
>
> --EM
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and Polaris)
> > with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we use
> the
> > ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
> >
> > My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best for
> the
> > community (for both communication and growth).
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <ru...@gmail.com>
> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my other
> > chats
> > > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most
> importantly
> > > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
> > objections
> > > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I
> > probably
> > > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how different it
> > was
> > > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for
> > anything
> > > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a
> > members
> > > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat apps.
> I
> > > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap (which
> > for
> > > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a full
> > > fledged Slack instance.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work
> (I
> > > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the
> > official
> > > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > > >
> > > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> > > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a
> > > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to
> > > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
> > > especially
> > > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > > >
> > > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even
> > on
> > > a
> > > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of
> > other
> > > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a
> > couple
> > > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it
> > > does
> > > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just
> adds
> > > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux
> > and
> > > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install
> > an
> > > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open
> > source
> > > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their
> > own
> > > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
> > > >
> > > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it
> > > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another
> point
> > > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > > >
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > > >
> > > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris
> > Slack
> > > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> > notifications
> > > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In
> > > > addition
> > > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
> > > workspaces
> > > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
> > > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mine
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is
> not
> > > > going
> > > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in
> the
> > > > Iceberg
> > > > >> slack workspace?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Dmitri.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Mailing list
> > > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > > >>> GitHub
> > > > >>> Zulip
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep
> > up
> > > > with
> > > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in
> > > slack
> > > > >> all
> > > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> > > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Mike
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my
> > > phone
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client
> > > version
> > > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
> > version....
> > > > >> IIRC.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip
> to
> > > > >>> Slack.
> > > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack
> > offers a
> > > > >>> more
> > > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> > organizations,
> > > > >>>> making
> > > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> > > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently
> outperforms
> > > > >> Zulip
> > > > >>>> in
> > > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes
> with
> > > > >> Zulip
> > > > >>>> on
> > > > >>>>> my
> > > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention
> > period
> > > > >> for
> > > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> > > > >>> primarily
> > > > >>>>> used
> > > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> > > > >>> proposals,
> > > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will
> continue
> > to
> > > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip
> > for a
> > > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to
> > adapt
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
> > > > >> Zulip
> > > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data
> > remains
> > > > >>>>> accessible
> > > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> > > > >> interest, I
> > > > >>>> can
> > > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up
> Slack
> > > and
> > > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Eric Maynard <er...@gmail.com>.
While it's true that there is substantial activity on Zulip, I think the
fact that we have a decent amount of community engagement on Slack in spite
of the fact that Zulip is currently the official platform linked to on the
site means that people probably do prefer Slack.
Personally I do not have a preference between Zulip and Slack, but my
suspicion is that Slack is more end-user friendly as the typical
developer is more likely to already have Slack set up than Zulip.
--EM
On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
wrote:
> Hi
>
> I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and Polaris)
> with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we use the
> ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
>
> My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best for the
> community (for both communication and growth).
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <ru...@gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
> > I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my other
> chats
> > I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most importantly
> > for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong
> objections
> > because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I
> probably
> > should have objected since I really didn’t understand how different it
> was
> > from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for
> anything
> > but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a
> members
> > of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat apps. I
> > think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap (which
> for
> > reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a full
> > fledged Slack instance.
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> wrote:
> >
> > > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work (I
> > > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the
> official
> > > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> > >
> > > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> > > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a
> > > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to
> > > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
> > especially
> > > not after a few hundred users joined.
> > >
> > > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even
> on
> > a
> > > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of
> other
> > > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a
> couple
> > > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it
> > does
> > > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just adds
> > > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux
> and
> > > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install
> an
> > > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open
> source
> > > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their
> own
> > > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
> > >
> > > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it
> > > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another point
> > > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> > >
> > > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris
> Slack
> > > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat
> notifications
> > > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In
> > > addition
> > > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
> > workspaces
> > > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
> > > > notifications are batched together.
> > > >
> > > > Mine
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Michael,
> > > >>
> > > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is not
> > > going
> > > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in the
> > > Iceberg
> > > >> slack workspace?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Dmitri.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> > collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Mailing list
> > > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > > >>> GitHub
> > > >>> Zulip
> > > >>>
> > > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep
> up
> > > with
> > > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in
> > slack
> > > >> all
> > > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> > > >>> occasional user questions…
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Mike
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my
> > phone
> > > >> and
> > > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client
> > version
> > > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch
> version....
> > > >> IIRC.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cheers,
> > > >>>> Dmitri.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to
> > > >>> Slack.
> > > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack
> offers a
> > > >>> more
> > > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across
> organizations,
> > > >>>> making
> > > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> > > >>>> seamlessly.
> > > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms
> > > >> Zulip
> > > >>>> in
> > > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with
> > > >> Zulip
> > > >>>> on
> > > >>>>> my
> > > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention
> period
> > > >> for
> > > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> > > >>> primarily
> > > >>>>> used
> > > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> > > >>> proposals,
> > > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue
> to
> > > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip
> for a
> > > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to
> adapt
> > > >> and
> > > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
> > > >> Zulip
> > > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data
> remains
> > > >>>>> accessible
> > > >>>>> for future reference.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> > > >> interest, I
> > > >>>> can
> > > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack
> > and
> > > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Yufei
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi
I don’t have a strong opinion. I’m mixing Zulip (for camel and Polaris)
with slack (for other project). I have a preference to Slack if we use the
ASF slack server (not a dedicated server like Iceberg or cloudstack).
My preference doesn’t matter: the most important is what’s the best for the
community (for both communication and growth).
Regards
JB
Le dim. 8 déc. 2024 à 00:18, Russell Spitzer <ru...@gmail.com> a
écrit :
> I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my other chats
> I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most importantly
> for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong objections
> because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I probably
> should have objected since I really didn’t understand how different it was
> from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for anything
> but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a members
> of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat apps. I
> think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap (which for
> reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a full
> fledged Slack instance.
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> wrote:
>
> > If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work (I
> > personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the official
> > Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
> >
> > There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> > arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a
> > related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to
> > change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks,
> especially
> > not after a few hundred users joined.
> >
> > I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even on
> a
> > lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of other
> > really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a couple
> > Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it
> does
> > not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just adds
> > (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux and
> > macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install an
> > application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open source
> > projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their own
> > OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
> >
> > Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it
> > potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another point
> > where Zulip excels over Slack.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> >
> > > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris Slack
> > > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat notifications
> > > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In
> > addition
> > > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project
> workspaces
> > > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
> > > notifications are batched together.
> > >
> > > Mine
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Michael,
> > >>
> > >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is not
> > going
> > >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> > >>
> > >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in the
> > Iceberg
> > >> slack workspace?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Dmitri.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <
> collado.mike@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> > >>>
> > >>> Mailing list
> > >>> Iceberg Slack
> > >>> GitHub
> > >>> Zulip
> > >>>
> > >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep up
> > with
> > >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> > >>>
> > >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in
> slack
> > >> all
> > >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> > >>> occasional user questions…
> > >>>
> > >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my
> phone
> > >> and
> > >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client
> version
> > >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version....
> > >> IIRC.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cheers,
> > >>>> Dmitri.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to
> > >>> Slack.
> > >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a
> > >>> more
> > >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations,
> > >>>> making
> > >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> > >>>> seamlessly.
> > >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms
> > >> Zulip
> > >>>> in
> > >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with
> > >> Zulip
> > >>>> on
> > >>>>> my
> > >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period
> > >> for
> > >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> > >>> primarily
> > >>>>> used
> > >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> > >>> proposals,
> > >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> > >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> > >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt
> > >> and
> > >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> > >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
> > >> Zulip
> > >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> > >>>>> accessible
> > >>>>> for future reference.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> > >> interest, I
> > >>>> can
> > >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack
> and
> > >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Yufei
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Russell Spitzer <ru...@gmail.com>.
I really dislike Zulip. I find it hard to use and for me all my other chats
I have to belong to are Slack for example ASF Slack and most importantly
for Polaris, the Iceberg slack. I originally didn’t have strong objections
because I hadn’t used Zulip and I was willing to try it out, but I probably
should have objected since I really didn’t understand how different it was
from slack. If we had another vote now I would be a strong -1 for anything
but Slack given that a majority of our users are going to also be a members
of the Iceberg community so we probably shouldn’t force two chat apps. I
think Polaris channel within the iceberg slack is a nice stopgap (which for
reference already has 155 members) but it would be better have a full
fledged Slack instance.
On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> wrote:
> If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work (I
> personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the official
> Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
>
> There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong
> arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a
> related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to
> change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks, especially
> not after a few hundred users joined.
>
> I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even on a
> lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of other
> really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a couple
> Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it does
> not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just adds
> (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux and
> macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install an
> application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open source
> projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their own
> OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
>
> Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it
> potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another point
> where Zulip excels over Slack.
>
> Robert
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
>
> > On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris Slack
> > workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat notifications
> > would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In
> addition
> > to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project workspaces
> > open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
> > notifications are batched together.
> >
> > Mine
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Michael,
> >>
> >> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is not
> going
> >> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
> >>
> >> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in the
> Iceberg
> >> slack workspace?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Dmitri.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> >>>
> >>> Mailing list
> >>> Iceberg Slack
> >>> GitHub
> >>> Zulip
> >>>
> >>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep up
> with
> >>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> >>>
> >>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in slack
> >> all
> >>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> >>> occasional user questions…
> >>>
> >>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> >>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> >>>>
> >>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my phone
> >> and
> >>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> >>>>
> >>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client version
> >>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version....
> >> IIRC.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Dmitri.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Folks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to
> >>> Slack.
> >>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a
> >>> more
> >>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations,
> >>>> making
> >>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> >>>> seamlessly.
> >>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms
> >> Zulip
> >>>> in
> >>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with
> >> Zulip
> >>>> on
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> >>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period
> >> for
> >>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> >>> primarily
> >>>>> used
> >>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> >>> proposals,
> >>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> >>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> >>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt
> >> and
> >>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
> >>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
> >> Zulip
> >>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> >>>>> accessible
> >>>>> for future reference.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> >> interest, I
> >>>> can
> >>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> >>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yufei
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de>.
If monitoring the Polaris channel in Iceberg slack is too much work (I personally don’t monitor it), then we should direct users to the official Apache Polaris Zulip chat.
There were no strong objections against Zulip particularly strong arguments for Slack voiced during the initial discussion [1] nor in a related discussion & vote [2]. I don’t think that it’s a good idea to change the project’s official chat after just a couple of weeks, especially not after a few hundred users joined.
I personally prefer Zulip over Slack, because of it’s clear view even on a lot of parallel conversations (topics) that works fine for a lot of other really big OSS projects (Rust, Asciidoctor, Quarkus, Wildfly and a couple Apache projects as well). For new users it’s very easy to join, as it does not require an invitation (hello Slack). Another chat systems just adds (IMHO mostly unneeded) feature over feature. Zulip is stable on Linux and macOS and offers a web interface for those that don’t want to install an application. Hosted Zulip itself has been very supportive of open source projects in the past years. They’re also very communicative in their own OSS Zulip chat - not sure how that works with another service.
Retention is important in an Apache project - *especially* when it potentially becomes eligible to decision making. This is another point where Zulip excels over Slack.
Robert
[1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/discussions/14
[2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/hz7g7t01hxvd9kgdjo81qy5hd9y1zols
> On 7. Dec 2024, at 05:37, Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris Slack
> workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat notifications
> would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In addition
> to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project workspaces
> open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
> notifications are batched together.
>
> Mine
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is not going
>> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
>>
>> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in the Iceberg
>> slack workspace?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dmitri.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
>>>
>>> Mailing list
>>> Iceberg Slack
>>> GitHub
>>> Zulip
>>>
>>> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep up with
>>> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
>>>
>>> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in slack
>> all
>>> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
>>> occasional user questions…
>>>
>>> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
>>> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
>>>>
>>>> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my phone
>> and
>>>> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
>>>>
>>>> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client version
>>>> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version....
>> IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Dmitri.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to
>>> Slack.
>>>>> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a
>>> more
>>>>> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Why Consider Slack?*
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations,
>>>> making
>>>>> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
>>>> seamlessly.
>>>>> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms
>> Zulip
>>>> in
>>>>> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with
>> Zulip
>>>> on
>>>>> my
>>>>> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
>>>>> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period
>> for
>>>>> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
>>> primarily
>>>>> used
>>>>> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
>>> proposals,
>>>>> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
>>>>> prioritize the use of email lists.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>>>>>
>>>>> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
>>>>> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt
>> and
>>>>> provide feedback before fully committing.
>>>>> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
>> Zulip
>>>>> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
>>>>> accessible
>>>>> for future reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
>> interest, I
>>>> can
>>>>> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
>>>>> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yufei
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>.
I imagine we’d replace the Iceberg Polaris channel with a Polaris Slack
workspace. Then we’d be down one channel and all the chat notifications
would be integrated with the other Slack notifications we get. In addition
to Iceberg, I also have a couple of other open source project workspaces
open and it makes keeping up with comms a bit simpler since all the
notifications are batched together.
Mine
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
<dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is not going
> to reduce the number of communication channels :)
>
> Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in the Iceberg
> slack workspace?
>
> Thanks,
> Dmitri.
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
> >
> > Mailing list
> > Iceberg Slack
> > GitHub
> > Zulip
> >
> > These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep up with
> > in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
> >
> > We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in slack
> all
> > day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> > occasional user questions…
> >
> > I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> > <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > > 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> > >
> > > I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my phone
> and
> > > do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> > >
> > > There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client version
> > > became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version....
> IIRC.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Dmitri.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to
> > Slack.
> > > > While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a
> > more
> > > > robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Why Consider Slack?*
> > > >
> > > > 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations,
> > > making
> > > > it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> > > seamlessly.
> > > > 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms
> Zulip
> > > in
> > > > terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with
> Zulip
> > > on
> > > > my
> > > > laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > > 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period
> for
> > > > chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> > primarily
> > > > used
> > > > for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> > proposals,
> > > > release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> > > > prioritize the use of email lists.
> > > >
> > > > *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > > >
> > > > - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> > > > transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt
> and
> > > > provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > > - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris
> Zulip
> > > > instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> > > > accessible
> > > > for future reference.
> > > >
> > > > I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s
> interest, I
> > > can
> > > > take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> > > > ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looking forward to your feedback!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yufei
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
Hi Michael,
I guess replacing Zulip with an Apache Polaris slack channel is not going
to reduce the number of communication channels :)
Are you suggesting to drop Zulip and use the polaris channel in the Iceberg
slack workspace?
Thanks,
Dmitri.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 3:42 PM Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
>
> Mailing list
> Iceberg Slack
> GitHub
> Zulip
>
> These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep up with
> in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
>
> We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in slack all
> day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
> occasional user questions…
>
> I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
> <dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > 2. *Performance and Stability*:
> >
> > I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my phone and
> > do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
> >
> > There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client version
> > became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version.... IIRC.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dmitri.
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > >
> > > I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to
> Slack.
> > > While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a
> more
> > > robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> > >
> > >
> > > *Why Consider Slack?*
> > >
> > > 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations,
> > making
> > > it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> > seamlessly.
> > > 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms Zulip
> > in
> > > terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with Zulip
> > on
> > > my
> > > laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > > 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period for
> > > chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are
> primarily
> > > used
> > > for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as
> proposals,
> > > release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> > > prioritize the use of email lists.
> > >
> > > *Proposed Transition Plan*
> > >
> > > - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> > > transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt and
> > > provide feedback before fully committing.
> > > - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris Zulip
> > > instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> > > accessible
> > > for future reference.
> > >
> > > I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s interest, I
> > can
> > > take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> > > ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to your feedback!
> > >
> > >
> > > Yufei
> > >
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Michael Collado <co...@gmail.com>.
Currently, the communication channels for Polaris include
Mailing list
Iceberg Slack
GitHub
Zulip
These are in addition to the regular comm channels I have to keep up with
in a given day. I think something’s gotta give.
We can’t get rid of the mailing list or GitHub and I’m already in slack all
day every day anyway and given that Zulip is _only_ ever used for
occasional user questions…
I like open source projects, but… I can’t do it all.
Mike
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 11:56 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov
<dm...@dremio.com.invalid> wrote:
> > 2. *Performance and Stability*:
>
> I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my phone and
> do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
>
> There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client version
> became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version.... IIRC.
>
> Cheers,
> Dmitri.
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> >
> > I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to Slack.
> > While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a more
> > robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
> >
> >
> > *Why Consider Slack?*
> >
> > 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations,
> making
> > it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat
> seamlessly.
> > 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms Zulip
> in
> > terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with Zulip
> on
> > my
> > laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> > 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period for
> > chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are primarily
> > used
> > for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as proposals,
> > release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> > prioritize the use of email lists.
> >
> > *Proposed Transition Plan*
> >
> > - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> > transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt and
> > provide feedback before fully committing.
> > - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris Zulip
> > instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> > accessible
> > for future reference.
> >
> > I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s interest, I
> can
> > take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> > ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
> >
> >
> > Looking forward to your feedback!
> >
> >
> > Yufei
> >
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
> 2. *Performance and Stability*:
I personally use Zulip Desktop on Linux and the Zulip App on my phone and
do not recall any serious performance and stability problems.
There was one event a long time ago, when a new desktop client version
became unusable, but it was solved quickly with a patch version.... IIRC.
Cheers,
Dmitri.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to Slack.
> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a more
> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>
>
> *Why Consider Slack?*
>
> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations, making
> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat seamlessly.
> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms Zulip in
> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with Zulip on
> my
> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period for
> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are primarily
> used
> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as proposals,
> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> prioritize the use of email lists.
>
> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>
> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt and
> provide feedback before fully committing.
> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris Zulip
> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> accessible
> for future reference.
>
> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s interest, I can
> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>
>
> Looking forward to your feedback!
>
>
> Yufei
>
Re: Switch to Slack for Polaris Communication
Posted by Dmitri Bourlatchkov <dm...@dremio.com.INVALID>.
Zulip is an OSS tool, at least it has a functional OSS server [1] and
client [2] variants (Apache-licensed).
Apache Polaris being an OSS project itself, I think it would be nice to
support other OSS projects like Zulip by expanding user awareness by using
it for developer chats and user support.
Cheers,
Dmitri.
[1] https://github.com/zulip/zulip
[2] https://github.com/zulip/zulip-desktop
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:26 PM Yufei Gu <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> I’d like to propose transitioning our chat platform from Zulip to Slack.
> While both platforms have their strengths, I believe Slack offers a more
> robust and widely adopted solution for our needs.
>
>
> *Why Consider Slack?*
>
> 1. *Broader Adoption*: Slack is widely used across organizations, making
> it easier for new members or collaborators to join and chat seamlessly.
> 2. *Performance and Stability*: Slack consistently outperforms Zulip in
> terms of reliability. I’ve experienced occasional crashes with Zulip on
> my
> laptop, which can disrupt productivity.
> 3. *Retention Period*: Slack provides a shorter retention period for
> chat history. However, this should suffice as chat tools are primarily
> used
> for quick responses. For more formal communication, such as proposals,
> release votes, or other critical discussions, we will continue to
> prioritize the use of email lists.
>
> *Proposed Transition Plan*
>
> - *Gradual Rollout*: We can implement Slack alongside Zulip for a
> transition period of 3 months. This allows team members to adapt and
> provide feedback before fully committing.
> - *Historical Access*: We don’t need to shut down the Polaris Zulip
> instance. Keeping it active ensures historical chat data remains
> accessible
> for future reference.
>
> I’d love to hear your thoughts on this proposal. If there’s interest, I can
> take the lead on outlining next steps, including setting up Slack and
> ensuring a smooth transition for the team.
>
>
> Looking forward to your feedback!
>
>
> Yufei
>