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Posted to dev@stratos.apache.org by Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org> on 2016/04/13 02:59:48 UTC
[Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Hi Devs,
Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to carter
new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting) few
PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
feedback.
Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application on
top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But rise
of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple with
containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in
Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s
releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits.
Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not
giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of
why Stratos need refacing.
Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
focus on container based application development/deployment.
We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
(since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
support.
User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in all
of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand average
user.
This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main
reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
Please share your thoughts.
p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
--
Lakmal Warusawithana
Vice President, Apache Stratos
Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> It's really nice to see the enthusiasm on re-igniting Stratos and starting
> a new journey. The day Lakmal proposed this I challenged the idea for
> several hours and analyzed it's pros & cons. This thread has already
> discussed those in detail.
>
> IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should be simple enough to do the
> following:
>
> docker run -d -p 8080:8080 stratos
>>
> stratos login https://docker-host:8080/
>
> stratos add platform kubernetes https://kubernetes-master/
>
> stratos add platform mesos https://mesos-master/
>
> stratos add platform swarm https://swarm-host/
>
> stratos add platform aws-ecs
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=kubernetes
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=mesos
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=swarm
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=ecs
>
>
>
>
Added above with some small changes to the doc. For eg. we may need to
support multiple k8s runtime in same deployment.
> Architecturally Stratos should be able to run using a light-weight single
> binary distribution and a key/value store like etcd for persistence. An API
> server can be exposed on the same binary and a CLI can be provided for user
> interaction. At a later stage an attractive UI can be introduced.
>
> I was evaluating a similar platform called Rancher very recently and they
> are also doing almost the same [1], but with a different vision and a
> strategy:
>
> - The first main difference is rather than adding existing Container
> Cluster Management Systems (CCMS) to Rancher, Rancher try to setup those
> from scratch and manage them. I don't think a such system should manage
> underlying CCMS.
> - The next is that Rancher implements health checks [2] and scheduling
> [3] of containers. IMO those should be handled by the underlying CCMS.
> Almost all the CCMSs provide those features.
> - The other is implementing a single load balancer extension [4].
> Rancher only supports haproxy, IMO a such solution should have support for
> many different load balancers depending on the platform the containers are
> deployed (ex: AWS-ECS, GCE-K8S).
>
> [1] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/
> [2] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#health-checks
> [3] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#container-scheduling
> [4] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#load-balancer
>
> Thanks
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@wso2.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first
>> phase.
>>
>> Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as
>> core Stratos services.
>>
>> In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value
>> additions, like follows.
>> List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of
>> features. Out of those, I think something like environment management +
>> environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added
>> service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't
>> have it, it would be good.
>>
>> [image: paas criteria categories]
>> <http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png>
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera <
>> ravihansa@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found this
>>> white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
>>> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
>>>
>>> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users when
>>> deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
>>>
>>> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
>>> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
>>> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
>>> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
>>> migrating to a different PaaS.
>>>
>>> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
>>> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location
>>> of processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over
>>> how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to
>>> minimize the cost.
>>>
>>> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
>>> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
>>> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
>>> product or open source implementation of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I
>>> see it;
>>>
>>> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the
>>> cost.
>>> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending on
>>> the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
>>> optimized.
>>>
>>> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
>>> environments through a single platform.
>>>
>>> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
>>> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
>>>
>>> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different
>>> PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution
>>> aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in
>>> this newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
>>> describe services and environments.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to
>>>> run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
>>>> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
>>>> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <lahirus@apache.org
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Udara,
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos
>>>>> for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise
>>>>> when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
>>>>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
>>>>> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
>>>>> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
>>>>> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value
>>>>> addition services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in
>>>>> a particular area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will
>>>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other
>>>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be
>>>>>> useful for them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <chamila@apache.org
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However,
>>>>>>> the new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sajith@wso2.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different
>>>>>>>> other PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with
>>>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified
>>>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <
>>>>>>>> chamila@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>>>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>>>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>>>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>>>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>>>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>>>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development
>>>>>>>>> processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as
>>>>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing
>>>>>>>>>>> to carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned
>>>>>>>>>>> meeting) few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH)
>>>>>>>>>>> offline and discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable
>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts and feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS
>>>>>>>>>>> providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead
>>>>>>>>>>> of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide
>>>>>>>>>>> unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to
>>>>>>>>>>> tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS.
>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start
>>>>>>>>>>> with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS
>>>>>>>>>>> etc support.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have
>>>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to
>>>>>>>>>>> understand average user.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with
>>>>>>>>>>> GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Udara Liyanage
>>>>>> Software Engineer
>>>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>>>>
>>>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
>>>> Mobile : +94714289692
>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Lahiru Sandaruwan
>> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
>> Senior Software Engineer,
>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
>> lean.enterprise.middleware
>>
>> phone: +94773325954
>> email: lahirus@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/
>> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Imesh Gunaratne
>
> Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
> Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
>
--
Lakmal Warusawithana
Vice President, Apache Stratos
Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Swapnil Patil <sw...@gmail.com>.
Hi All,
Hope you all are doing good!
It's been more than a year since I last contributed to Stratos as a GSoC
project. I would like to start contributing again.
I liked the idea of "Ignite Architecture". Just wondering if there are any
tasks that are planed on which I can try my hands?
Thanks,
Swapnil
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 6:29 AM, Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Shall we start with a POC?
>>
>> Couple of point to note:
>>
>> - Stratos api server should be very light weight
>> - for state saving we should used external service (eg. external etcd
>> )
>> - failure of Stratos should not affect any running application.
>> - shall we look TOSCA for supporting standard composite app model?
>>
>> +1 Lakmal! Will start with a POC. May be we can use a branch for this.
> Once things are stable will move to the master branch.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>> Better if we can have public google doc to capture architecture. Created
>> a doc [1]. Let start with basic components architecture.
>>
>> [1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HnvCzmYqPVpqXSYV-
>> PwGo9d8cmjYKPCPx3TCMKJx8cQ/edit
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> It's really nice to see the enthusiasm on re-igniting Stratos and
>>> starting a new journey. The day Lakmal proposed this I challenged the idea
>>> for several hours and analyzed it's pros & cons. This thread has already
>>> discussed those in detail.
>>>
>>> IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should be simple enough to do the
>>> following:
>>>
>>> docker run -d -p 8080:8080 stratos
>>>>
>>> stratos login https://docker-host:8080/
>>>
>>> stratos add platform kubernetes https://kubernetes-master/
>>>
>>> stratos add platform mesos https://mesos-master/
>>>
>>> stratos add platform swarm https://swarm-host/
>>>
>>> stratos add platform aws-ecs
>>>
>>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=kubernetes
>>>
>>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=mesos
>>>
>>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=swarm
>>>
>>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=ecs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Architecturally Stratos should be able to run using a light-weight
>>> single binary distribution and a key/value store like etcd for persistence.
>>> An API server can be exposed on the same binary and a CLI can be provided
>>> for user interaction. At a later stage an attractive UI can be introduced.
>>>
>>> I was evaluating a similar platform called Rancher very recently and
>>> they are also doing almost the same [1], but with a different vision and a
>>> strategy:
>>>
>>> - The first main difference is rather than adding existing Container
>>> Cluster Management Systems (CCMS) to Rancher, Rancher try to setup those
>>> from scratch and manage them. I don't think a such system should manage
>>> underlying CCMS.
>>> - The next is that Rancher implements health checks [2] and
>>> scheduling [3] of containers. IMO those should be handled by the underlying
>>> CCMS. Almost all the CCMSs provide those features.
>>> - The other is implementing a single load balancer extension [4].
>>> Rancher only supports haproxy, IMO a such solution should have support for
>>> many different load balancers depending on the platform the containers are
>>> deployed (ex: AWS-ECS, GCE-K8S).
>>>
>>> [1] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/
>>> [2] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#health-checks
>>> [3] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#container-scheduling
>>> [4] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#load-balancer
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@wso2.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first
>>>> phase.
>>>>
>>>> Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as
>>>> core Stratos services.
>>>>
>>>> In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value
>>>> additions, like follows.
>>>> List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of
>>>> features. Out of those, I think something like environment management +
>>>> environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added
>>>> service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't
>>>> have it, it would be good.
>>>>
>>>> [image: paas criteria categories]
>>>> <http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-
>>>> evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera <
>>>> ravihansa@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found
>>>>> this white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
>>>>> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users
>>>>> when deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
>>>>> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
>>>>> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
>>>>> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
>>>>> migrating to a different PaaS.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
>>>>> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical
>>>>> location of processing and storage of data. Also service providers need
>>>>> control over how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on
>>>>> policy model) to minimize the cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
>>>>> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
>>>>> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
>>>>> product or open source implementation of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I
>>>>> see it;
>>>>>
>>>>> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the
>>>>> cost.
>>>>> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending
>>>>> on the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
>>>>> optimized.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
>>>>> environments through a single platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
>>>>> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a
>>>>> different PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and
>>>>> execution aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in
>>>>> this newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
>>>>> describe services and environments.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/
>>>>> 3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <lakmal@wso2.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary
>>>>>> to run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will
>>>>>> not change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
>>>>>> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <
>>>>>> lahirus@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Udara,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used
>>>>>>> Stratos for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his
>>>>>>> expertise when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids
>>>>>>> the vendor lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as
>>>>>>> Kibana, Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also
>>>>>>> managed by Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So
>>>>>>> he can keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value
>>>>>>> addition services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in
>>>>>>> a particular area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>>>>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>>>>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will
>>>>>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other
>>>>>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be
>>>>>>>> useful for them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <
>>>>>>>> chamila@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However,
>>>>>>>>> the new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>>>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <
>>>>>>>>> sajith@wso2.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different
>>>>>>>>>> other PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with
>>>>>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified
>>>>>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <
>>>>>>>>>> chamila@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single
>>>>>>>>>>> user experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have
>>>>>>>>>>> their own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container
>>>>>>>>>>> cluster related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at
>>>>>>>>>>> least initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction.
>>>>>>>>>>> This should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new
>>>>>>>>>>> "PaaS" to learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development
>>>>>>>>>>> processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use
>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input
>>>>>>>>>>>> as well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring
>>>>>>>>>>>> many improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned
>>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting) few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> offline and discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts and feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand average user.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Udara Liyanage
>>>>>>>> Software Engineer
>>>>>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>>>>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
>>>>>> Mobile : +94714289692
>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Lahiru Sandaruwan
>>>> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
>>>> Senior Software Engineer,
>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware
>>>>
>>>> phone: +94773325954
>>>> email: lahirus@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/
>>>> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Imesh Gunaratne
>>>
>>> Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
>>> Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Imesh Gunaratne
>
> Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
> Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
>
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Shall we start with a POC?
>
> Couple of point to note:
>
> - Stratos api server should be very light weight
> - for state saving we should used external service (eg. external etcd )
> - failure of Stratos should not affect any running application.
> - shall we look TOSCA for supporting standard composite app model?
>
> +1 Lakmal! Will start with a POC. May be we can use a branch for this.
Once things are stable will move to the master branch.
Thanks
> Better if we can have public google doc to capture architecture. Created a
> doc [1]. Let start with basic components architecture.
>
> [1]
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HnvCzmYqPVpqXSYV-PwGo9d8cmjYKPCPx3TCMKJx8cQ/edit
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> It's really nice to see the enthusiasm on re-igniting Stratos and
>> starting a new journey. The day Lakmal proposed this I challenged the idea
>> for several hours and analyzed it's pros & cons. This thread has already
>> discussed those in detail.
>>
>> IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should be simple enough to do the
>> following:
>>
>> docker run -d -p 8080:8080 stratos
>>>
>> stratos login https://docker-host:8080/
>>
>> stratos add platform kubernetes https://kubernetes-master/
>>
>> stratos add platform mesos https://mesos-master/
>>
>> stratos add platform swarm https://swarm-host/
>>
>> stratos add platform aws-ecs
>>
>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=kubernetes
>>
>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=mesos
>>
>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=swarm
>>
>> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=ecs
>>
>>
>>
>> Architecturally Stratos should be able to run using a light-weight single
>> binary distribution and a key/value store like etcd for persistence. An API
>> server can be exposed on the same binary and a CLI can be provided for user
>> interaction. At a later stage an attractive UI can be introduced.
>>
>> I was evaluating a similar platform called Rancher very recently and they
>> are also doing almost the same [1], but with a different vision and a
>> strategy:
>>
>> - The first main difference is rather than adding existing Container
>> Cluster Management Systems (CCMS) to Rancher, Rancher try to setup those
>> from scratch and manage them. I don't think a such system should manage
>> underlying CCMS.
>> - The next is that Rancher implements health checks [2] and
>> scheduling [3] of containers. IMO those should be handled by the underlying
>> CCMS. Almost all the CCMSs provide those features.
>> - The other is implementing a single load balancer extension [4].
>> Rancher only supports haproxy, IMO a such solution should have support for
>> many different load balancers depending on the platform the containers are
>> deployed (ex: AWS-ECS, GCE-K8S).
>>
>> [1] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/
>> [2] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#health-checks
>> [3] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#container-scheduling
>> [4] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#load-balancer
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@wso2.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first
>>> phase.
>>>
>>> Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as
>>> core Stratos services.
>>>
>>> In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value
>>> additions, like follows.
>>> List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of
>>> features. Out of those, I think something like environment management +
>>> environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added
>>> service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't
>>> have it, it would be good.
>>>
>>> [image: paas criteria categories]
>>> <http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera <
>>> ravihansa@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found
>>>> this white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
>>>> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
>>>>
>>>> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users
>>>> when deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
>>>>
>>>> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
>>>> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
>>>> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
>>>> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
>>>> migrating to a different PaaS.
>>>>
>>>> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
>>>> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location
>>>> of processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over
>>>> how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to
>>>> minimize the cost.
>>>>
>>>> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
>>>> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
>>>> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
>>>> product or open source implementation of it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I
>>>> see it;
>>>>
>>>> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the
>>>> cost.
>>>> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending
>>>> on the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
>>>> optimized.
>>>>
>>>> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
>>>> environments through a single platform.
>>>>
>>>> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
>>>> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
>>>>
>>>> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different
>>>> PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution
>>>> aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in
>>>> this newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
>>>> describe services and environments.
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to
>>>>> run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
>>>>> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
>>>>> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <
>>>>> lahirus@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Udara,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos
>>>>>> for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise
>>>>>> when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
>>>>>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as
>>>>>> Kibana, Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also
>>>>>> managed by Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So
>>>>>> he can keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value
>>>>>> addition services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in
>>>>>> a particular area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>>>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>>>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will
>>>>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other
>>>>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be
>>>>>>> useful for them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <
>>>>>>> chamila@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However,
>>>>>>>> the new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <
>>>>>>>> sajith@wso2.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different
>>>>>>>>> other PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with
>>>>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified
>>>>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <
>>>>>>>>> chamila@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single
>>>>>>>>>> user experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have
>>>>>>>>>> their own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container
>>>>>>>>>> cluster related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at
>>>>>>>>>> least initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction.
>>>>>>>>>> This should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new
>>>>>>>>>> "PaaS" to learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development
>>>>>>>>>> processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as
>>>>>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing
>>>>>>>>>>>> to carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting) few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH)
>>>>>>>>>>>> offline and discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable
>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts and feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though
>>>>>>>>>>>> of fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS
>>>>>>>>>>>> providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead
>>>>>>>>>>>> of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide
>>>>>>>>>>>> unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to
>>>>>>>>>>>> tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start
>>>>>>>>>>>> with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand average user.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with
>>>>>>>>>>>> GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Udara Liyanage
>>>>>>> Software Engineer
>>>>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>>>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
>>>>> Mobile : +94714289692
>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Lahiru Sandaruwan
>>> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
>>> Senior Software Engineer,
>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
>>> lean.enterprise.middleware
>>>
>>> phone: +94773325954
>>> email: lahirus@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/
>>> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Imesh Gunaratne
>>
>> Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
>> Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lakmal Warusawithana
> Vice President, Apache Stratos
> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>
--
Imesh Gunaratne
Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>.
Shall we start with a POC?
Couple of point to note:
- Stratos api server should be very light weight
- for state saving we should used external service (eg. external etcd )
- failure of Stratos should not affect any running application.
- shall we look TOSCA for supporting standard composite app model?
Better if we can have public google doc to capture architecture. Created a
doc [1]. Let start with basic components architecture.
[1]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HnvCzmYqPVpqXSYV-PwGo9d8cmjYKPCPx3TCMKJx8cQ/edit
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> It's really nice to see the enthusiasm on re-igniting Stratos and starting
> a new journey. The day Lakmal proposed this I challenged the idea for
> several hours and analyzed it's pros & cons. This thread has already
> discussed those in detail.
>
> IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should be simple enough to do the
> following:
>
> docker run -d -p 8080:8080 stratos
>>
> stratos login https://docker-host:8080/
>
> stratos add platform kubernetes https://kubernetes-master/
>
> stratos add platform mesos https://mesos-master/
>
> stratos add platform swarm https://swarm-host/
>
> stratos add platform aws-ecs
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=kubernetes
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=mesos
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=swarm
>
> stratos deploy tomcat --platform=ecs
>
>
>
> Architecturally Stratos should be able to run using a light-weight single
> binary distribution and a key/value store like etcd for persistence. An API
> server can be exposed on the same binary and a CLI can be provided for user
> interaction. At a later stage an attractive UI can be introduced.
>
> I was evaluating a similar platform called Rancher very recently and they
> are also doing almost the same [1], but with a different vision and a
> strategy:
>
> - The first main difference is rather than adding existing Container
> Cluster Management Systems (CCMS) to Rancher, Rancher try to setup those
> from scratch and manage them. I don't think a such system should manage
> underlying CCMS.
> - The next is that Rancher implements health checks [2] and scheduling
> [3] of containers. IMO those should be handled by the underlying CCMS.
> Almost all the CCMSs provide those features.
> - The other is implementing a single load balancer extension [4].
> Rancher only supports haproxy, IMO a such solution should have support for
> many different load balancers depending on the platform the containers are
> deployed (ex: AWS-ECS, GCE-K8S).
>
> [1] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/
> [2] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#health-checks
> [3] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#container-scheduling
> [4] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#load-balancer
>
> Thanks
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@wso2.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first
>> phase.
>>
>> Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as
>> core Stratos services.
>>
>> In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value
>> additions, like follows.
>> List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of
>> features. Out of those, I think something like environment management +
>> environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added
>> service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't
>> have it, it would be good.
>>
>> [image: paas criteria categories]
>> <http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png>
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera <
>> ravihansa@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found this
>>> white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
>>> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
>>>
>>> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users when
>>> deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
>>>
>>> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
>>> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
>>> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
>>> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
>>> migrating to a different PaaS.
>>>
>>> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
>>> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location
>>> of processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over
>>> how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to
>>> minimize the cost.
>>>
>>> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
>>> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
>>> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
>>> product or open source implementation of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I
>>> see it;
>>>
>>> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the
>>> cost.
>>> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending on
>>> the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
>>> optimized.
>>>
>>> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
>>> environments through a single platform.
>>>
>>> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
>>> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
>>>
>>> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different
>>> PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution
>>> aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in
>>> this newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
>>> describe services and environments.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to
>>>> run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
>>>> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
>>>> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <lahirus@apache.org
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Udara,
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos
>>>>> for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise
>>>>> when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
>>>>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
>>>>> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
>>>>> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
>>>>> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value
>>>>> addition services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in
>>>>> a particular area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will
>>>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other
>>>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be
>>>>>> useful for them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <chamila@apache.org
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However,
>>>>>>> the new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sajith@wso2.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different
>>>>>>>> other PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with
>>>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified
>>>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <
>>>>>>>> chamila@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>>>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>>>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>>>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>>>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>>>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>>>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development
>>>>>>>>> processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as
>>>>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing
>>>>>>>>>>> to carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned
>>>>>>>>>>> meeting) few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH)
>>>>>>>>>>> offline and discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable
>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts and feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS
>>>>>>>>>>> providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead
>>>>>>>>>>> of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide
>>>>>>>>>>> unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to
>>>>>>>>>>> tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS.
>>>>>>>>>>> Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start
>>>>>>>>>>> with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS
>>>>>>>>>>> etc support.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have
>>>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to
>>>>>>>>>>> understand average user.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with
>>>>>>>>>>> GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Udara Liyanage
>>>>>> Software Engineer
>>>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>>>>
>>>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
>>>> Mobile : +94714289692
>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Lahiru Sandaruwan
>> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
>> Senior Software Engineer,
>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
>> lean.enterprise.middleware
>>
>> phone: +94773325954
>> email: lahirus@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/
>> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Imesh Gunaratne
>
> Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
> Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
>
--
Lakmal Warusawithana
Vice President, Apache Stratos
Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org>.
Hi All,
It's really nice to see the enthusiasm on re-igniting Stratos and starting
a new journey. The day Lakmal proposed this I challenged the idea for
several hours and analyzed it's pros & cons. This thread has already
discussed those in detail.
IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should be simple enough to do the following:
docker run -d -p 8080:8080 stratos
>
stratos login https://docker-host:8080/
stratos add platform kubernetes https://kubernetes-master/
stratos add platform mesos https://mesos-master/
stratos add platform swarm https://swarm-host/
stratos add platform aws-ecs
stratos deploy tomcat --platform=kubernetes
stratos deploy tomcat --platform=mesos
stratos deploy tomcat --platform=swarm
stratos deploy tomcat --platform=ecs
Architecturally Stratos should be able to run using a light-weight single
binary distribution and a key/value store like etcd for persistence. An API
server can be exposed on the same binary and a CLI can be provided for user
interaction. At a later stage an attractive UI can be introduced.
I was evaluating a similar platform called Rancher very recently and they
are also doing almost the same [1], but with a different vision and a
strategy:
- The first main difference is rather than adding existing Container
Cluster Management Systems (CCMS) to Rancher, Rancher try to setup those
from scratch and manage them. I don't think a such system should manage
underlying CCMS.
- The next is that Rancher implements health checks [2] and scheduling
[3] of containers. IMO those should be handled by the underlying CCMS.
Almost all the CCMSs provide those features.
- The other is implementing a single load balancer extension [4].
Rancher only supports haproxy, IMO a such solution should have support for
many different load balancers depending on the platform the containers are
deployed (ex: AWS-ECS, GCE-K8S).
[1] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/
[2] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#health-checks
[3] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#container-scheduling
[4] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#load-balancer
Thanks
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@wso2.com>
wrote:
> Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first
> phase.
>
> Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as
> core Stratos services.
>
> In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value
> additions, like follows.
> List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of
> features. Out of those, I think something like environment management +
> environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added
> service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't
> have it, it would be good.
>
> [image: paas criteria categories]
> <http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png>
>
>
> [1]
> http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera <
> ravihansa@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found this
>> white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
>> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
>>
>> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users when
>> deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
>>
>> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
>> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
>> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
>> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
>> migrating to a different PaaS.
>>
>> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
>> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location
>> of processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over
>> how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to
>> minimize the cost.
>>
>> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
>> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
>> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
>> product or open source implementation of it.
>>
>>
>> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I see
>> it;
>>
>> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the cost.
>> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending on
>> the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
>> optimized.
>>
>> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
>> environments through a single platform.
>>
>> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
>> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
>>
>> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different
>> PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution
>> aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
>>
>>
>> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in
>> this newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
>> describe services and environments.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to
>>> run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
>>> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
>>> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Udara,
>>>>
>>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos
>>>> for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise
>>>> when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
>>>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
>>>> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
>>>> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
>>>> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value
>>>> addition services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in
>>>> a particular area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>>>
>>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>>>
>>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will
>>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other
>>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be
>>>>> useful for them?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However,
>>>>>> the new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different
>>>>>>> other PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with
>>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified
>>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <chamila@apache.org
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development
>>>>>>>> processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as
>>>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>>>>>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>>>>>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>>>>>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>>>>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS
>>>>>>>>>> providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead
>>>>>>>>>> of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide
>>>>>>>>>> unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to
>>>>>>>>>> tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS.
>>>>>>>>>> Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start
>>>>>>>>>> with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS
>>>>>>>>>> etc support.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have
>>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to
>>>>>>>>>> understand average user.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with
>>>>>>>>>> GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Udara Liyanage
>>>>> Software Engineer
>>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>>>
>>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
>>> Mobile : +94714289692
>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Lahiru Sandaruwan
> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
> Senior Software Engineer,
> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
> lean.enterprise.middleware
>
> phone: +94773325954
> email: lahirus@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/
> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146
>
>
--
Imesh Gunaratne
Senior Technical Lead, WSO2
Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@wso2.com>.
Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first
phase.
Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as core
Stratos services.
In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value
additions, like follows.
List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of
features. Out of those, I think something like environment management +
environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added
service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't
have it, it would be good.
[image: paas criteria categories]
<http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png>
[1]
http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/
Thanks.
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera <
ravihansa@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found this
> white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
>
> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users when
> deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
>
> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
> migrating to a different PaaS.
>
> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location of
> processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over
> how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to
> minimize the cost.
>
> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
> product or open source implementation of it.
>
>
> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I see
> it;
>
> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the cost.
> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending on
> the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
> optimized.
>
> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
> environments through a single platform.
>
> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
>
> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different
> PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution
> aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
>
>
> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in this
> newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
> describe services and environments.
>
> [1]
> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to
>> run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
>> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
>> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Udara,
>>>
>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>>
>>>
>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos
>>> for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise
>>> when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
>>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
>>> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
>>> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
>>> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>>
>>>
>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value addition
>>> services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in a
>>> particular area.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>>
>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>>
>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will
>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other
>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be
>>>> useful for them?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, the
>>>>> new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>>
>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other
>>>>>> PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with
>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified
>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>>>>>>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as
>>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>>>>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>>>>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>>>>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>>>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers.
>>>>>>>>> We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>>>>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>>>>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>>>>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>>>>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>>>>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have
>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to
>>>>>>>>> understand average user.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO,
>>>>>>>>> main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Udara Liyanage
>>>> Software Engineer
>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>>
>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
>> Mobile : +94714289692
>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>
--
--
Lahiru Sandaruwan
Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
Senior Software Engineer,
WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
lean.enterprise.middleware
phone: +94773325954
email: lahirus@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/
linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Akila Ravihansa Perera <ra...@apache.org>.
Hi,
While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found this
white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS
environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here.
According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users when
deploying to multi-PaaS environments.
- Heterogeneity in development and deployment.
There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar
architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is
restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in
migrating to a different PaaS.
- Fine-grained control over execution and storage.
There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location of
processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over
how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to
minimize the cost.
PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS
environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution
through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable
product or open source implementation of it.
Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I see
it;
- Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the cost.
Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending on
the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be
optimized.
- Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS
environments through a single platform.
- Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS
environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this.
- Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different
PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution
aspects are offloaded to Stratos.
I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in this
newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to
describe services and environments.
[1]
https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf
Thanks.
On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>
wrote:
> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to run
> multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
> complicated PaaS terminologies.
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Udara,
>>
>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>>
>>
>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos for
>> one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise when
>> they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>>
>>
>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
>> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
>> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
>> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>>
>>
>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value addition
>> services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in a
>> particular area.
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Lakmal,
>>>
>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though
>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who
>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>>
>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will users
>>> use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other words, if
>>> users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be useful for
>>> them?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, the
>>>> new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>>
>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other
>>>>> PaaS frameworks?
>>>>>
>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
>>>>> approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
>>>>> talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>>>>>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as
>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>>>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>>>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>>>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers.
>>>>>>>> We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>>>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>>>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>>>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>>>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>>>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen
>>>>>>>> in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>>>>>>> average user.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO,
>>>>>>>> main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Udara Liyanage
>>> Software Engineer
>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>>
>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Lakmal Warusawithana
> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
> Mobile : +94714289692
> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>
>
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>.
Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to run
multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not
change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all
complicated PaaS terminologies.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi Udara,
>
> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
>
>
> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos for
> one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise when
> they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
>
>
> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
>
>
> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value addition
> services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in a
> particular area.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lakmal,
>>
>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though Stratos
>> supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who used
>> multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>>
>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will users
>> use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other words, if
>> users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be useful for
>> them?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, the
>>> new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>>
>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other
>>>> PaaS frameworks?
>>>>
>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
>>>> approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
>>>> talk to different PaaS s?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>>>>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well
>>>>>> as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers.
>>>>>>> We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen
>>>>>>> in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>>>>>> average user.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO,
>>>>>>> main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Udara Liyanage
>> Software Engineer
>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
>> lean. enterprise. middleware
>>
>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
>> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>>
>
>
--
Lakmal Warusawithana
Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
Mobile : +94714289692
Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Lahiru Sandaruwan <la...@apache.org>.
Hi Udara,
IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have.
- If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos for
one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his expertise when
they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the vendor
lockin from context switching of expertise perspective.
- Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana,
Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed by
Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can
keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage.
- In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value addition
services if there are no other 3rd party applications available in a
particular area.
Thanks.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com> wrote:
> Hi Lakmal,
>
> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though Stratos
> supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who used
> multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
>
> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will users
> use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other words, if
> users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be useful for
> them?
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, the
>> new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches
>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>>
>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chamila de Alwis
>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other
>>> PaaS frameworks?
>>>
>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
>>> approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
>>> talk to different PaaS s?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>>
>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>>>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <
>>>> raj.chudasama@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> this looks great!
>>>>>
>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well
>>>>> as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>>
>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of
>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
>>>>>> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen
>>>>>> in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>>>>> average user.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO,
>>>>>> main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed
>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Udara Liyanage
> Software Engineer
> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
> lean. enterprise. middleware
>
> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
> phone: +94 71 443 6897
>
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com>.
Hi Lakmal,
To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though Stratos
supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who used
multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with Stratos.
With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will users
use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other words, if
users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be useful for
them?
On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
wrote:
> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, the new
> architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches these
> different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
>
> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>
> Regards,
> Chamila de Alwis
> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>
> wrote:
>
>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other
>> PaaS frameworks?
>>
>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
>> approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
>> talk to different PaaS s?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>>
>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chamila de Alwis
>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <raj.chudasama@gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> this looks great!
>>>>
>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well
>>>> as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <
>>>> lakmal@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run
>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache
>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment
>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s
>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and
>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any
>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it
>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we
>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
>>>>> focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
>>>>> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>>> support.
>>>>>
>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in
>>>>> all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>>>> average user.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO,
>>>>> main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sajith Kariyawasam
>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>*
>>
>
>
--
Udara Liyanage
Software Engineer
WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com
lean. enterprise. middleware
web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com
phone: +94 71 443 6897
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Chamila de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>.
In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, the new
architecture will also unify concept-wise the different approaches these
different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management.
@Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Regards,
Chamila de Alwis
Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com> wrote:
> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other PaaS
> frameworks?
>
> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
> approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
> talk to different PaaS s?
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>
>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chamila de Alwis
>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <ra...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> this looks great!
>>>
>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well as
>>> share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>
>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <lakmal@apache.org
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>
>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>> feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application
>>>> on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But
>>>> rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple
>>>> with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in
>>>> Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s
>>>> releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits.
>>>> Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not
>>>> giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of
>>>> why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>
>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
>>>> focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
>>>> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in
>>>> all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>>> average user.
>>>>
>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main
>>>> reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>
>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sajith Kariyawasam
> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
> *Mobile: 0772269575*
>
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@wso2.com>.
Great to hear that you like to contribute Stratos. Definitely we will help
you to contribute. Yes refacing will make it easy. We are most welcome code
contributors also contribution can done in many ways. Please see [1]
[1] http://stratos.apache.org/community/get-involved.html
On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 1:47 PM, 周华康 <45...@qq.com> wrote:
> Hi Devs,
> I want to understand the theory beside the source code alone, so i wish
> you can offer some theory reference attached in the email when you guys
> push new code to the new repository of stratos ,so may be the newer like me
> can follow your steps quickly.
> PS:
> Before I wished to learn something and hope to make a contribution to the
> stratos 4.x.x.But so sad that my ability is poor and a little sad that
> before i can do something it begins to reface.
> However maybe it is a new chance for me as i can witness the birth and
> growth of the new stratos-Stratos 5.0.Hope i can learn more!
>
> 在 2016年4月14日，上午5:06，Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com> 写道：
>
> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other PaaS
> frameworks?
>
> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
> approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
> talk to different PaaS s?
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>>
>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
>> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chamila de Alwis
>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <ra...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> this looks great!
>>>
>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well as
>>> share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>>
>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>>> improvements to PCF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <lakmal@apache.org
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Devs,
>>>>
>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to
>>>> carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting)
>>>> few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>>> feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application
>>>> on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But
>>>> rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple
>>>> with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in
>>>> Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s
>>>> releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits.
>>>> Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not
>>>> giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of
>>>> why Stratos need refacing.
>>>>
>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
>>>> focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>>
>>>> <Stratos Ignite Architecture.png>
>>>>
>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
>>>> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in
>>>> all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>>> average user.
>>>>
>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main
>>>> reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>>
>>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sajith Kariyawasam
> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com/>*
> *Mobile: 0772269575*
>
>
>
--
Lakmal Warusawithana
Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc.
Mobile : +94714289692
Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by 周华康 <45...@qq.com>.
Hi Devs,
I want to understand the theory beside the source code alone, so i wish you can offer some theory reference attached in the email when you guys push new code to the new repository of stratos ,so may be the newer like me can follow your steps quickly.
PS:
Before I wished to learn something and hope to make a contribution to the stratos 4.x.x.But so sad that my ability is poor and a little sad that before i can do something it begins to reface.
However maybe it is a new chance for me as i can witness the birth and growth of the new stratos-Stratos 5.0.Hope i can learn more!
> 在 2016年4月14日，上午5:06，Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com> 写道：
>
> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other PaaS frameworks?
>
> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to talk to different PaaS s?
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <chamila@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>
> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Chamila de Alwis
> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com <http://code.chamiladealwis.com/>
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <raj.chudasama@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> this looks great!
>
> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through the appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>
> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many improvements to PCF.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <lakmal@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>> wrote:
> Hi Devs,
>
> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting) few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and feedback.
>
> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of why Stratos need refacing.
>
> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully focus on container based application development/deployment.
>
> <Stratos Ignite Architecture.png>
>
> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc support.
>
> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand average user.
>
> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>
> Please share your thoughts.
>
> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>
> --
> Lakmal Warusawithana
> Vice President, Apache Stratos
> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/ <http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sajith Kariyawasam
> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos,
> WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com/>
> Mobile: 0772269575
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Sajith Kariyawasam <sa...@wso2.com>.
With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different other PaaS
frameworks?
With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with this
approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified interface to
talk to different PaaS s?
On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org> wrote:
> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
>
> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
> involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Chamila de Alwis
> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <ra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> this looks great!
>>
>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well as
>> share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>>
>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
>> improvements to PCF.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Devs,
>>>
>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to carter
>>> new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting) few
>>> PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>>> feedback.
>>>
>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application
>>> on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But
>>> rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple
>>> with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in
>>> Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s
>>> releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits.
>>> Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not
>>> giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of
>>> why Stratos need refacing.
>>>
>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
>>> focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
>>> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>>> support.
>>>
>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in
>>> all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>>> average user.
>>>
>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main
>>> reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>>
>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>>
>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>
--
Sajith Kariyawasam
*Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, *
*WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>*
*Mobile: 0772269575*
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Chamil de Alwis <ch...@apache.org>.
As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user
experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have their
own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container cluster
related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at least
initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This
should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new "PaaS" to
learn if the abstraction becomes too complex.
Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development processes
involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to use it.
Regards,
Chamila de Alwis
Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos
Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com
On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama <ra...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> this looks great!
>
> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well as
> share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
>
> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
> improvements to PCF.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Devs,
>>
>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to carter
>> new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting) few
>> PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
>> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
>> feedback.
>>
>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application
>> on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But
>> rise of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple
>> with containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in
>> Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s
>> releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits.
>> Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not
>> giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of
>> why Stratos need refacing.
>>
>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
>> focus on container based application development/deployment.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
>> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
>> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
>> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
>> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
>> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
>> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
>> support.
>>
>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in
>> all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand
>> average user.
>>
>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main
>> reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>>
>> Please share your thoughts.
>>
>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>>
>> --
>> Lakmal Warusawithana
>> Vice President, Apache Stratos
>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
Re: [Proposal] Stratos 5.0 - Ignite Architecture
Posted by Raj Chudasama <ra...@gmail.com>.
this looks great!
i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as well as
share your progress. please take all your decisions through the
appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines.
i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many
improvements to PCF.
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana <la...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi Devs,
>
> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing to carter
> new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met (unplanned meeting) few
> PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) offline and
> discussed and came up $subject. Please share your valuable thoughts and
> feedback.
>
> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run application on
> top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used apache jclouds. But rise
> of the container technology future app dev and deployment will couple with
> containers not VM. Because of that we have integrated k8s support in
> Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at 4.1.x and new k8s
> releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any benefits.
> Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort if it does not
> giving any value to community. This is the background that we thought of
> why Stratos need refacing.
>
> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of fully
> focus on container based application development/deployment.
>
>
>
> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS providers. We
> propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS instead of support
> multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will provide unique
> workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not going to tie up
> with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any PaaS. Stratos will
> play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can start with k8s
> (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, CF, ECS etc
> support.
>
> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have seen in all
> of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to understand average
> user.
>
> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with GO, main
> reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container.
>
> Please share your thoughts.
>
> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed anything.
>
> --
> Lakmal Warusawithana
> Vice President, Apache Stratos
> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
>