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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by "Shapira, Yoav" <Yo...@mpi.com> on 2004/03/18 17:55:08 UTC
Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Hi,
I was browsing the various Geronimo web sites today, starting with
http://incubator.apache.org/geronimo/. I see mention of Jetty on the
left-hand menu bar, which I assume is used for Servlets, and maybe also
HTTP connection handling. Is my assumption wrong?
If my assumption is right, I'd like to know why Jetty was chosen over
Tomcat. This is surprising, especially in light of the statement on the
incubator front page that "The aim of the project is to produce a large
and healthy community of J2EE developers tasked with the development of
an open source, certified J2EE server, that is ASF licensed and passes
Sun's TCK reusing the best ASF/BSD licensed code available today and
adding new code to complete the J2EE stack." Jetty is neither ASF nor
BSD licensed from what I see, choosing its own license
(http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty/LICENSE.html).
A search of this list's archives
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&w=2&r=1&s=tomcat&q=b)
comes up with a few hits and references, including one from Senor
Srinivas asking to update the Geronimo Maven repository with Tomcat
5.0.18.
So what's the status? If tomcat is used, shouldn't that be documented
somewhere? If tomcat is not used, why? Do we need a bit more
communications between tomcat-dev and Geronimo-dev?
Thanks,
Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics
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Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Bill Barker <wb...@wilshire.com>.
>From way back when, when I was subscribed to geronimo-dev, the main reason
to use Jetty was that Geronimo had Jetty developers. There wasn't any real
objection that I saw to using Tomcat, just a total lack of people who had
that itch to scratch.
If this is your itch, then by all means start sending patches to
geronimo-dev to make it happen :).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shapira, Yoav" <Yo...@mpi.com>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Cc: <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:55 AM
Subject: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Hi,
I was browsing the various Geronimo web sites today, starting with
http://incubator.apache.org/geronimo/. I see mention of Jetty on the
left-hand menu bar, which I assume is used for Servlets, and maybe also
HTTP connection handling. Is my assumption wrong?
If my assumption is right, I'd like to know why Jetty was chosen over
Tomcat. This is surprising, especially in light of the statement on the
incubator front page that "The aim of the project is to produce a large
and healthy community of J2EE developers tasked with the development of
an open source, certified J2EE server, that is ASF licensed and passes
Sun's TCK reusing the best ASF/BSD licensed code available today and
adding new code to complete the J2EE stack." Jetty is neither ASF nor
BSD licensed from what I see, choosing its own license
(http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty/LICENSE.html).
A search of this list's archives
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&w=2&r=1&s=tomcat&q=b)
comes up with a few hits and references, including one from Senor
Srinivas asking to update the Geronimo Maven repository with Tomcat
5.0.18.
So what's the status? If tomcat is used, shouldn't that be documented
somewhere? If tomcat is not used, why? Do we need a bit more
communications between tomcat-dev and Geronimo-dev?
Thanks,
Yoav Shapira
Millennium Research Informatics
This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business
communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary
and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to
whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or
used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please
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Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@4quarters.com>.
On Mar 18, 2004, at 1:49 PM, Greg Wilkins wrote:
>
> Just to back up what Jan said... it is our intention to make
> the web tier very much a geronimo thing and not a Jetty/Tomcat
> issue - at least from a configuration and deployment point of view.
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo/Architecture/WebContainer
>
> The infrastructure of geronimo has been refactored recently and as
> as part of that effort, the intial generic web tier was replaced
> with a very Jetty specific web tier. I view this change as
> temporary state of affairs and that eventually a geronimo user
> should not be aware of what implementation is being used for the
> web tier (unless they actively lift the hood).
>
> As for the Jetty licensing issue, I am considering changing Jetty
> to the apache 2.0 license. I need to have that discussion with the
> Jetty community, but I see the 2.0 license as very compatible with
> the artistic license which Jetty currently uses.
>
That would be a good move, and remove any concerns which one might have
w/ the license.
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com
Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Greg Wilkins <gr...@mortbay.com>.
Just to back up what Jan said... it is our intention to make
the web tier very much a geronimo thing and not a Jetty/Tomcat
issue - at least from a configuration and deployment point of view.
http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo/Architecture/WebContainer
The infrastructure of geronimo has been refactored recently and as
as part of that effort, the intial generic web tier was replaced
with a very Jetty specific web tier. I view this change as
temporary state of affairs and that eventually a geronimo user
should not be aware of what implementation is being used for the
web tier (unless they actively lift the hood).
As for the Jetty licensing issue, I am considering changing Jetty
to the apache 2.0 license. I need to have that discussion with the
Jetty community, but I see the 2.0 license as very compatible with
the artistic license which Jetty currently uses.
regards
Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Greg Wilkins <gr...@mortbay.com>.
Just to back up what Jan said... it is our intention to make
the web tier very much a geronimo thing and not a Jetty/Tomcat
issue - at least from a configuration and deployment point of view.
http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo/Architecture/WebContainer
The infrastructure of geronimo has been refactored recently and as
as part of that effort, the intial generic web tier was replaced
with a very Jetty specific web tier. I view this change as
temporary state of affairs and that eventually a geronimo user
should not be aware of what implementation is being used for the
web tier (unless they actively lift the hood).
As for the Jetty licensing issue, I am considering changing Jetty
to the apache 2.0 license. I need to have that discussion with the
Jetty community, but I see the 2.0 license as very compatible with
the artistic license which Jetty currently uses.
regards
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Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Jan Bartel <ja...@mortbay.com>.
Yoav,
Currently Jetty has been integrated as the web layer in Geronimo. It has
been the first because:
a) several of the committers to Geronimo also happen to be Jetty committers
b) it's very easy to integrate Jetty (but I say that as a Jetty
committer! :-) )
The intention is that you should be able to plug any number of different
web containers into Geronimo. When designing the web integration layer,
we've taken particular care to come up with an architecture that is
container neutral (take a look at the wiki pages over at
http://wiki.apache.org/geronimo/Architecture/WebContainer).
We would sincerely welcome contributions from Tomcat - we believe in
strength in diversity!
Regarding the licensing of Jetty, it's license is compatible with Apache
requirements, AFAIK.
Jan
Shapira, Yoav wrote:
> Hi,
> I was browsing the various Geronimo web sites today, starting with
> http://incubator.apache.org/geronimo/. I see mention of Jetty on the
> left-hand menu bar, which I assume is used for Servlets, and maybe also
> HTTP connection handling. Is my assumption wrong?
>
> If my assumption is right, I'd like to know why Jetty was chosen over
> Tomcat. This is surprising, especially in light of the statement on the
> incubator front page that "The aim of the project is to produce a large
> and healthy community of J2EE developers tasked with the development of
> an open source, certified J2EE server, that is ASF licensed and passes
> Sun's TCK reusing the best ASF/BSD licensed code available today and
> adding new code to complete the J2EE stack." Jetty is neither ASF nor
> BSD licensed from what I see, choosing its own license
> (http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty/LICENSE.html).
>
> A search of this list's archives
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&w=2&r=1&s=tomcat&q=b)
> comes up with a few hits and references, including one from Senor
> Srinivas asking to update the Geronimo Maven repository with Tomcat
> 5.0.18.
>
> So what's the status? If tomcat is used, shouldn't that be documented
> somewhere? If tomcat is not used, why? Do we need a bit more
> communications between tomcat-dev and Geronimo-dev?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yoav Shapira
> Millennium Research Informatics
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you.
Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by "n. alex rupp" <ru...@umn.edu>.
It's true. Tomcat's 95% ready. It took me about a week to learn enough about
GBeans and Catalina to get a bolt-on version of Tomcat running inside Geronimo,
so we don't need a jumpstart. It isn't in the code base right now because there
are some special build/maven-related parlour tricks that need to be performed in
order to get it integrated with the normal build, and one Mr. Sundstrom has
taken charge of that effort. Once he gets it integrated into the build, you'll
be able to use Tomcat. I don't know if T5'll ship with the first version of
Geronimo or not--I don't hear much from Dain or Jeremy these days. They're
somewhere near London, probably pub crawling.
However, I must warn you. Tomcat is not capable of being truly integrated into
the Geronimo environment, because it does not use a componentized architectural
style. Tomcat is very much an application, which can be bolted onto the side of
Geronimo, but cannot be broken down and encapsulated into GBeans which are then
able to be individually managed by the container. Believe me, I spent a month
and a half researching the problem, and I did not arrive at this conclusion
lightly.
It isn't that Tomcat is designed poorly, just that it wasn't designed to be
embedded.
This poses problems if you're trying to use Tomcat's built-in JMX to connect
with other GBeans. It also means you won't be able to take advantage of the
distributed configurations, dependency management, application lifecycle, and
all of the other things a real integration with a JSR-77 compliant container
would buy you. I was not happy to make this realization, but it's given me a
whole new appreciation for Jetty (not that I was really lacking in that
department to begin with).
This is why I'll be focusing my time and energy in the future on helping Greg,
Jan and Jules with a true integration of Jetty, or some other solution that's
amiable to them and the other project commiters. Hopefully, as more IoC-3 style
"constructor dependency injection" containers (like the GBean / Plexus / Pico
containers) start becoming available, our web server solutions will get more
componentized. In the mean time we'll keep the Tomcat bolt-on available in case
anyone desperately needs it, and give whatever constructive advice we can
regarding the subject. If not here, then definitely on IRC.
(as Greg and others have mentioned, if you stick to the specification then
you've got nothing at all to worry about.)
Cheers, hope you guys are all doing well : )
--
N. Alex Rupp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brendan W.McAdams" <bm...@sluggy.com>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Cc: "Tomcat Developers List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
> N. Alex Rupps has been working on some Tomcat porting for Geronimo
> Integration. You can probably hit him up on
> irc://irc.freenode.net/#geronimo for more information.
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2004, at 12:48, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>
> > Yoav,
> >
> > 'senor srinivas' - That's me :) I was thinking about Jetty/Tomcat and
> > ran across this article on
> > O'Reilly (http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/1547) and hence the question
> > about updating maven repository
> > to be able to hack something up using 5.0.18. However i have not been
> > able to contribute my time
> > to this effort and it would be GREAT if some tomcat-dev folks can give
> > us a jump start.
> >
> > thanks,
> > dims
Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by "Brendan W.McAdams" <bm...@sluggy.com>.
N. Alex Rupps has been working on some Tomcat porting for Geronimo
Integration. You can probably hit him up on
irc://irc.freenode.net/#geronimo for more information.
On Mar 18, 2004, at 12:48, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Yoav,
>
> 'senor srinivas' - That's me :) I was thinking about Jetty/Tomcat and
> ran across this article on
> O'Reilly (http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/1547) and hence the question
> about updating maven repository
> to be able to hack something up using 5.0.18. However i have not been
> able to contribute my time
> to this effort and it would be GREAT if some tomcat-dev folks can give
> us a jump start.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> --- "Shapira, Yoav" <Yo...@mpi.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> I was browsing the various Geronimo web sites today, starting with
>> http://incubator.apache.org/geronimo/. I see mention of Jetty on the
>> left-hand menu bar, which I assume is used for Servlets, and maybe
>> also
>> HTTP connection handling. Is my assumption wrong?
>>
>> If my assumption is right, I'd like to know why Jetty was chosen over
>> Tomcat. This is surprising, especially in light of the statement on
>> the
>> incubator front page that "The aim of the project is to produce a
>> large
>> and healthy community of J2EE developers tasked with the development
>> of
>> an open source, certified J2EE server, that is ASF licensed and passes
>> Sun's TCK reusing the best ASF/BSD licensed code available today and
>> adding new code to complete the J2EE stack." Jetty is neither ASF nor
>> BSD licensed from what I see, choosing its own license
>> (http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty/LICENSE.html).
>>
>> A search of this list's archives
>> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&w=2&r=1&s=tomcat&q=b)
>> comes up with a few hits and references, including one from Senor
>> Srinivas asking to update the Geronimo Maven repository with Tomcat
>> 5.0.18.
>>
>> So what's the status? If tomcat is used, shouldn't that be documented
>> somewhere? If tomcat is not used, why? Do we need a bit more
>> communications between tomcat-dev and Geronimo-dev?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Yoav Shapira
>> Millennium Research Informatics
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business
>> communication, and may
>> contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or
>> privileged. This e-mail is
>> intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may
>> not be saved, copied,
>> printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an)
>> intended recipient, please
>> immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify
>> the sender. Thank you.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
> =====
> Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <di...@yahoo.com>.
Yoav,
'senor srinivas' - That's me :) I was thinking about Jetty/Tomcat and ran across this article on
O'Reilly (http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/1547) and hence the question about updating maven repository
to be able to hack something up using 5.0.18. However i have not been able to contribute my time
to this effort and it would be GREAT if some tomcat-dev folks can give us a jump start.
thanks,
dims
--- "Shapira, Yoav" <Yo...@mpi.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I was browsing the various Geronimo web sites today, starting with
> http://incubator.apache.org/geronimo/. I see mention of Jetty on the
> left-hand menu bar, which I assume is used for Servlets, and maybe also
> HTTP connection handling. Is my assumption wrong?
>
> If my assumption is right, I'd like to know why Jetty was chosen over
> Tomcat. This is surprising, especially in light of the statement on the
> incubator front page that "The aim of the project is to produce a large
> and healthy community of J2EE developers tasked with the development of
> an open source, certified J2EE server, that is ASF licensed and passes
> Sun's TCK reusing the best ASF/BSD licensed code available today and
> adding new code to complete the J2EE stack." Jetty is neither ASF nor
> BSD licensed from what I see, choosing its own license
> (http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty/LICENSE.html).
>
> A search of this list's archives
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&w=2&r=1&s=tomcat&q=b)
> comes up with a few hits and references, including one from Senor
> Srinivas asking to update the Geronimo Maven repository with Tomcat
> 5.0.18.
>
> So what's the status? If tomcat is used, shouldn't that be documented
> somewhere? If tomcat is not used, why? Do we need a bit more
> communications between tomcat-dev and Geronimo-dev?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yoav Shapira
> Millennium Research Informatics
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may
> contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is
> intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied,
> printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please
> immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
=====
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
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Re: Does Geronimo use tomcat?
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <di...@yahoo.com>.
Yoav,
'senor srinivas' - That's me :) I was thinking about Jetty/Tomcat and ran across this article on
O'Reilly (http://www.onjava.com/lpt/a/1547) and hence the question about updating maven repository
to be able to hack something up using 5.0.18. However i have not been able to contribute my time
to this effort and it would be GREAT if some tomcat-dev folks can give us a jump start.
thanks,
dims
--- "Shapira, Yoav" <Yo...@mpi.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I was browsing the various Geronimo web sites today, starting with
> http://incubator.apache.org/geronimo/. I see mention of Jetty on the
> left-hand menu bar, which I assume is used for Servlets, and maybe also
> HTTP connection handling. Is my assumption wrong?
>
> If my assumption is right, I'd like to know why Jetty was chosen over
> Tomcat. This is surprising, especially in light of the statement on the
> incubator front page that "The aim of the project is to produce a large
> and healthy community of J2EE developers tasked with the development of
> an open source, certified J2EE server, that is ASF licensed and passes
> Sun's TCK reusing the best ASF/BSD licensed code available today and
> adding new code to complete the J2EE stack." Jetty is neither ASF nor
> BSD licensed from what I see, choosing its own license
> (http://jetty.mortbay.org/jetty/LICENSE.html).
>
> A search of this list's archives
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&w=2&r=1&s=tomcat&q=b)
> comes up with a few hits and references, including one from Senor
> Srinivas asking to update the Geronimo Maven repository with Tomcat
> 5.0.18.
>
> So what's the status? If tomcat is used, shouldn't that be documented
> somewhere? If tomcat is not used, why? Do we need a bit more
> communications between tomcat-dev and Geronimo-dev?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yoav Shapira
> Millennium Research Informatics
>
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may
> contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is
> intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied,
> printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please
> immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
=====
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/