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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by eric b <er...@free.fr> on 2011/11/08 21:48:55 UTC
[Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Hi,
Looking at the archives (see [1]), the flow of mails we receive every
day, on ooo-dev mailing list is really big, and not always
"development" relevant. And more than 1500 mails every month, is
maybe too much (of me it is). Of course, I'm the first to think, some
topics are important, interesting and must be debated, but we reached
some limit, and must, say ... improve the situation.
As a compromise, what about to create ooo-
discuss@incubator.apache.org ?
Thanks in advance for any suggestion / opinion :-)
Regards,
Eric Bachard
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/
--
qɔᴉɹə
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com>.
Hi all,
https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-poisonous-people
I like this video too.
:)
If we try to build a strong community based on politeness, respect,
trust and humility[slide p9], if we follow mailing list
etiquette[p13], if you don't "Don't"[p30] and if you do "Do"[pp32, 33,
34], we won't need more English lists than
ooo-dev@incubator.apahce.org, ooo-users@incubator.apache.org and
ooo-marketing@incubator.apache.org.
I would like to tell the Japanese list these "based on" and
"etiquette" and "don't" and "do" in Japanese when
http://s.apache.org/D3a this question is solved and Japanese posts
with Japanese subject get through on the list,
ooo-general-ja@incubator.apache.org.
:)
Thanks,
khirano
--
I am a slow reader and a slow writer.
:)
Long and complicated English is a barrier.
Short and simple English is a bridge.
:)
Please be friendly to non-English speakers on lists.
:)
Slow down. Make it short. Make it simple.
No hurry. Read it again before you post.
Then post it tomorrow.
:)
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 9 November 2011 07:26, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>
>> As a mentor, I have two comments:
>>
>> - When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly define the focus and expected community that would use a list. In particular, showing specific threads on other lists that would be better moved to the new list is helpful to give others a detailed explanation of the kinds of things a new list proposer would expect to see on the new list.
>>
>> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be approached with caution in terms of the effects of splitting community energy.
>>
>> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" set of slides:
>>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-poisonous-people
>>
>> The talk is worth watching, but for those short on time the slides are worth reading. In particular, the aspects about how communities of many different kinds of people (the vast majority who are not poisonous, by the way!) can effectively work together on public mailing lists. A key slide is pp 5, and pp7 as a followup:
>>
>> "Attention and Focus
>> These are your scarcest resources
>> You must protect them"
>
> The hour spent watching this will be worth hours in reclaimed time and productivity!
+1000
This video really ought to be required watching for all subscribers to
any open source mailing list.
Ross
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Nov 8, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> As a mentor, I have two comments:
>
> - When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly define the focus and expected community that would use a list. In particular, showing specific threads on other lists that would be better moved to the new list is helpful to give others a detailed explanation of the kinds of things a new list proposer would expect to see on the new list.
>
> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be approached with caution in terms of the effects of splitting community energy.
>
> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" set of slides:
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-poisonous-people
>
> The talk is worth watching, but for those short on time the slides are worth reading. In particular, the aspects about how communities of many different kinds of people (the vast majority who are not poisonous, by the way!) can effectively work together on public mailing lists. A key slide is pp 5, and pp7 as a followup:
>
> "Attention and Focus
> These are your scarcest resources
> You must protect them"
The hour spent watching this will be worth hours in reclaimed time and productivity!
Thanks,
Dave
>
> - Shane
Watch this Video [Was: Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list]
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
I think it is worth bringing this one video to people's attention. It is worth an hour to watch it all.
On Nov 8, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> As a mentor, I have two comments:
<snipping the first comment>
> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" set of slides:
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-poisonous-people
>
> The talk is worth watching, but for those short on time the slides are worth reading. In particular, the aspects about how communities of many different kinds of people (the vast majority who are not poisonous, by the way!) can effectively work together on public mailing lists. A key slide is pp 5, and pp7 as a followup:
>
> "Attention and Focus
> These are your scarcest resources
> You must protect them"
>
> - Shane
Best Regards,
Dave
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by eric b <er...@free.fr>.
Hi Ross,
Le 9 nov. 11 à 11:34, Ross Gardler a écrit :
>>
>> The link I have i mind is :
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Use_of_MailList
>> Everything is clearly explained and seems to be well accepted.
>
> Pointing to a document foundation wiki page and claiming is well
> accepted in an Apache project is not really appropriate.
Sorry, I wanted to show I was open, and when something is good, I
don't fear to recognize it is.
> That being said if you think the AOOo project ought to adopt a
> similar policy for its lists then lets discuss that.
>
What about do even better then ? :-)
>>> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be
>>> approached
>>> with caution in terms of the effects of splitting community energy.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It is not convinced you split energy separating pure development
>> and what is not. There is a dynamic on ooo-dev list, in the sense
>> people producing code
>> ( anything producing website or something close to code) are
>> active and start working together.
>
> There is an argument to be made for providing an avenue for non-
> development discussions. The problem (as I see it) with this
> request is that it is for a list without a clearly defined objective.
> OOO-discuss does not have a clear objective. Is it a user list? Is
> it a bud discussion list? A feature request list? A policy
> discussion list? Some other discuss list?
>
You are right, I was not enough precise, and any help to improve /
rewrite my proposal is welcome.
>> The problem is, the number of posts is too high for a development
>> list, and that's mainly why I suggested to create a new list.
>
> This may be true. However, we have discussed list creation before
> and we agreed to adopt a practice of "tagging" posts appropriately
> until such a time as a single topic are was too overwhelming.
> Perhaps that time has come and a second more focussed list is needed.
Yes, perhaps.
> However, the place to discuss this is not OOo-private and in any
> case the list will not be approved if the only justification is to
> hide the "the noise we currently observe with ooo-dev mailing list"
I assume to word : noise is relative, and depends on the case. Review
a patch on ooo-marketing mailing list is not well accepted either :-)
> A much more healthy reaction is to manage the OOo-dev list better
> (unless you are saying we need a user list, for example).
In fact my proposal was an open door to improvement, and I expected
opinions, people who disagree and other answers .. and so on.
I'm confident somebody will have a good idea soon :-)
Regards,
Eric Bachard
--
qɔᴉɹə
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
> There is an argument to be made for providing an avenue for
> non-development discussions. The problem (as I see it) with this
> request is that it is for a list without a clearly defined objective.
> OOO-discuss does not have a clear objective. Is it a user list? Is it
> a bud discussion list? A feature request list? A policy discussion
> list? Some other discuss list?
>
One idea, unconventional for Apache, but might still make sense:
1) Create a new list: ooo-general. Transfer the subscriber list of
ooo-dev to ooo-general. This new list becomes the official
cross-functional list for the AOOo project. It is the list where all
project-wide proposals and votes are held. It is the "list of record"
for the project. It is the list we're talking about when we say, "If
it didn't happen on the list, it didn't happen"
2) Focus ooo-dev on the code.
I know this is an odd approach for most Apache projects, where 90% of
the discussion might be on code, with a small amount of discussion
about the website or marketing. But with an end user oriented product
like OpenOffice, it has always been the case that the discussions are
far more diverse. I think there may be some benefit to encouraging a
healthy code focus on ooo-dev, while enabling ooo-general to serve as
a necessary list for cross-functional coordidation and communications.
-Rob
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 8 November 2011 23:58, eric b <er...@free.fr> wrote:
> Hi Shane,
>
> Le 8 nov. 11 à 23:48, Shane Curcuru a écrit :
>
>> As a mentor, I have two comments:
>>
>> - When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly define the
>> focus and expected community that would use a list. In particular, showing
>> specific threads on other lists that would be better moved to the new list
>> is helpful to give others a detailed explanation of the kinds of things a
>> new list proposer would expect to see on the new list.
>
>
> The TDF/LO people did something intelligent about that, and really separate
> what is devel form what is not.
>
> The link I have i mind is :
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Use_of_MailList
> Everything is clearly explained and seems to be well accepted.
Pointing to a document foundation wiki page and claiming is well
accepted in an Apache project is not really appropriate. That being
said if you think the AOOo project ought to adopt a similar policy for
its lists then lets discuss that.
>> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be approached
>> with caution in terms of the effects of splitting community energy.
>>
>
>
> It is not convinced you split energy separating pure development and what is
> not. There is a dynamic on ooo-dev list, in the sense people producing code
> ( anything producing website or something close to code) are active and
> start working together.
There is an argument to be made for providing an avenue for
non-development discussions. The problem (as I see it) with this
request is that it is for a list without a clearly defined objective.
OOO-discuss does not have a clear objective. Is it a user list? Is it
a bud discussion list? A feature request list? A policy discussion
list? Some other discuss list?
> The problem is, the number of posts is too high for a development list, and
> that's mainly why I suggested to create a new list.
This may be true. However, we have discussed list creation before and
we agreed to adopt a practice of "tagging" posts appropriately until
such a time as a single topic are was too overwhelming.
Perhaps that time has come and a second more focussed list is needed.
However, the place to discuss this is not OOo-private and in any case
the list will not be approved if the only justification is to hide the
"the noise we currently observe with ooo-dev mailing list"
A much more healthy reaction is to manage the OOo-dev list better
(unless you are saying we need a user list, for example).
Ross
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by eric b <er...@free.fr>.
Hi Shane,
Le 8 nov. 11 à 23:48, Shane Curcuru a écrit :
> As a mentor, I have two comments:
>
> - When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly
> define the focus and expected community that would use a list. In
> particular, showing specific threads on other lists that would be
> better moved to the new list is helpful to give others a detailed
> explanation of the kinds of things a new list proposer would expect
> to see on the new list.
The TDF/LO people did something intelligent about that, and really
separate what is devel form what is not.
The link I have i mind is : http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/
Development/Use_of_MailList
Everything is clearly explained and seems to be well accepted.
> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be
> approached with caution in terms of the effects of splitting
> community energy.
>
It is not convinced you split energy separating pure development and
what is not. There is a dynamic on ooo-dev list, in the sense people
producing code ( anything producing website or something close to
code) are active and start working together.
The problem is, the number of posts is too high for a development
list, and that's mainly why I suggested to create a new list.
My idea was to filter better what is pure development and what is
not, giving a very well tested solution to people who want to say
something, but don't know where ask. Including good questions,
triggering active and productive discussion who could be redirected
to ooo-dev when needed.
I really think there is something promising occuring, and OOo devel
is back. Even if we need to organize a bit, define some rules (e.g.
before to commit something in the code, verify nothing is
broken ...), define rules for the Issues, and so on.
> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the
> well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People"
> set of slides:
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-
> poisonous-people
>
I know that, very well, and thanks a lot for the reminder : we (not
only me, but other people helping me) tried to follow the method when
I took over the Education Project.
Some facts : when I started, with fantastic contributors like Rakesh
Pandit and other, who gave up since (tired by Louis obstruction), the
Education Project had 6 members. We lead it to over 100 members, and
crated a lot of things. We attracted students, managed lot of
projects, and produced code.
The Education Projects, like the Mac OS X porting project were the
most active ever in OpenOffice.org. But the problem was people
blocking any initiative from active people, and even forcing us to
create our own external project : that's why EducOOo was born.
As I wrote, the Community Management was a total mess, and what
happened in OOo was exactly the opposite of what should be a true
open project, in the sense of Shane set of slides.
The people in question are Louis and his friends (Kazunari
Hirano,Charles Schultz and some other today in TDF/LO). They
effectively poisoned the Education Project (in the exact same way
described in the document Shane mentioned. This is the simple truth,
and everything is in the archives (excepted if they were deleted in
meantime ...). I'm only reporting facts, warning to not redo the same
errors over and over.
I'm sorry I can't defend what I say better, because I'm not a native
speaker (english is definitely a barrier for me), but I have no
problem to explain quietly the story of the previous mess.
I never trahired the OpenOffice.org Project, but I don't want to
return to the "usefull idiot" status.
Last but not least, I respect and I really appreciate Dennis, Rob,
Shane (and other) impressive work, and I'm glad to see how the
project is managed and growing.
Regads,
Eric Bachard
--
qɔᴉɹə
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
[OT] Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by eric b <er...@free.fr>.
Hi,
Le 9 nov. 11 à 04:23, Louis Suárez-Potts a écrit :
> On 8 November 2011 17:48, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>>
>> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the
>> well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People"
>> set of
>> slides:
>>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-
>> poisonous-people
>>
>> The talk is worth watching, but for those short on time the slides
>> are worth
>> reading. In particular, the aspects about how communities of many
>> different
>> kinds of people (the vast majority who are not poisonous, by the
>> way!) can
>> effectively work together on public mailing lists. A key slide is
>> pp 5, and
>> pp7 as a followup:
>>
>> "Attention and Focus
>> These are your scarcest resources
>> You must protect them"
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>
>
> Louis
>
> <former OOo community manager, chair of the erstwhile council, lead
> of Native-Lang, Marketing, Website, Distribution, Education, Business,
> Incubator Category;
You should write you were the "owner" of those projects, instead of
the lead, because you were the admin.
There is a huge difference IMHO.
Regards,
Eric Bachard
--
qɔᴉɹə
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <ls...@gmail.com>.
On 8 November 2011 17:48, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> As a mentor, I have two comments:
>
> - When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly define the
> focus and expected community that would use a list. In particular, showing
> specific threads on other lists that would be better moved to the new list
> is helpful to give others a detailed explanation of the kinds of things a
> new list proposer would expect to see on the new list.
>
> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be approached
> with caution in terms of the effects of splitting community energy.
>
> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the
> well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" set of
> slides:
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-poisonous-people
>
> The talk is worth watching, but for those short on time the slides are worth
> reading. In particular, the aspects about how communities of many different
> kinds of people (the vast majority who are not poisonous, by the way!) can
> effectively work together on public mailing lists. A key slide is pp 5, and
> pp7 as a followup:
>
> "Attention and Focus
> These are your scarcest resources
> You must protect them"
>
> - Shane
>
Hi,
I would second Shane's point. But we went through this routinely at
OOo. Our policy—devised pretty much by Stefan and me but agreed upon
by quite a few leads—was the the fewer the lists the better, and that
lists must have a raison d'être; but that focus was played second to
the larger desire to have more conversations than hardly any at all.
In short, it was better to have somewhat noisy lists than to have
lists that were not noisy at all but also not attended to, as the more
interesting conversations were where the people went.
Our policy was (and is, I suppose) posted at
http://www.openoffice.org/mail_list.html, which I originally wrote
about 10 years ago and updated periodically. I also had policies,
drafted in consort and collaboration with the other project leads (I
led many projects in OOo) regarding poisonous people, and what to do
about them in order to preserve the value of the community.
Again, the former OOo was a little schizoid and played at being both a
user site and a developer portal; and it probably did both badly,
though for different reasons.
I would hope that we focus here on one or the other and be clear—as in
"transparent" and "accountable"—in the Apache way, as to what we want
and hope to get.
Louis
<former OOo community manager, chair of the erstwhile council, lead of
Native-Lang, Marketing, Website, Distribution, Education, Business,
Incubator Category; primary content writer for the first several
years, too, I suppose, and chief spokesperson of the project; now the
project's representative on all three ODF TCs at Oasis, as well as its
representative to Software in the Public Interest.>
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
As a mentor, I have two comments:
- When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly define
the focus and expected community that would use a list. In particular,
showing specific threads on other lists that would be better moved to
the new list is helpful to give others a detailed explanation of the
kinds of things a new list proposer would expect to see on the new list.
Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be approached
with caution in terms of the effects of splitting community energy.
- I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the
well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" set
of slides:
https://sites.google.com/site/io/how-open-source-projects-survive-poisonous-people
The talk is worth watching, but for those short on time the slides are
worth reading. In particular, the aspects about how communities of many
different kinds of people (the vast majority who are not poisonous, by
the way!) can effectively work together on public mailing lists. A key
slide is pp 5, and pp7 as a followup:
"Attention and Focus
These are your scarcest resources
You must protect them"
- Shane
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:48 PM, eric b <er...@free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Looking at the archives (see [1]), the flow of mails we receive every day,
> on ooo-dev mailing list is really big, and not always "development"
> relevant. And more than 1500 mails every month, is maybe too much (of me it
> is). Of course, I'm the first to think, some topics are important,
> interesting and must be debated, but we reached some limit, and must, say
> ... improve the situation.
>
> As a compromise, what about to create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org ?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestion / opinion :-)
>
I think it is a balance between having a single community with a
single conversation, and allowing committers to focus. Focus is
mainly a mental skill, a habit. If you look at the committers
checking in the most code, they seem to be far less active than those
who are posting frequently on every thread.
If we had a discuss forum, perhaps some of the "side conversations"
might migrate there. But it is not guaranteed. The problem would be
that the "ooo-discuss" sub-community would have nothing to do, nothing
to focus on. And we would still have flame wars on ooo-dev, since
trolls want to be on the busy list, not the side list.
What might work, is if we get a large volume of focused threads on
ooo-dev that are related much more to each other than are related to
other threads, then we could think about making a new list for that
topic. Think of refactoring software and looking for code with high
intra-module cohesion but with low inter-module coupling. An example
of this might be an ooo-l10n list for localization/translation/related
threads. Both at a technical level and in terms of the pre-existing
community, that subject has been separate.
Regards,
-Rob
>
> Regards,
> Eric Bachard
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/
>
> --
> qɔᴉɹə
> Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
> L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
> Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>.
Hello
----- Mail original -----
De: "Donald Whytock" <dw...@gmail.com>
>This sounds more like something for, say, an ooo-feedback, ooo-suggest
>or something similar. Some place where users can make suggestions,
>and developers can pull from there to ooo-dev.
Why don't go to ooo-users@ to do this?
This list has a low traffic.
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Donald Whytock <dw...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts
<ls...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In OOo-land, discuss list conversations were often initiated (if not
> always) by non-developers expressing wishes, comments, complaints or
> other OT stuff, though that latter was limited. Developers intervened
> and explained and invariably politely explicated what was what.
>
> However, that was the old OOo site. The new Apache one has a stronger
> developer focus. It's not as much a discursive site as the old. So, I
> tend, using that logic, to favour a purely dev@ list focused on
> development.
>
> But there remains the problem—or virtue—of the non-developer
> contributor whose contributions are immensely valuable and include not
> just localizations, but also extensions, templates, etc. etc., that
> make OOo as usable as it is (and would make it even more usable).
> Where these discussions take place is the question.
This sounds more like something for, say, an ooo-feedback, ooo-suggest
or something similar. Some place where users can make suggestions,
and developers can pull from there to ooo-dev.
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Louis Suárez-Potts <ls...@gmail.com>.
hi,
On 8 November 2011 15:58, Donald Whytock <dw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:48 PM, eric b <er...@free.fr> wrote:
>> As a compromise, what about to create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org ?
>
> We could certainly move all the name-calling there...
>
> At the moment, though, policy issues, legal issues and the like are
> still development issues simply because the precedents haven't yet
> been set. So what would be talked about on ooo-discuss that wouldn't
> have an impact here?
>
> Or would that be a place for those discussions that take on a life of
> their own, such that someone says, "Okay, let's take this to
> ooo-discuss", whereupon it gets hashed out and comes back here with a
> [Proposal]?
>
In OOo-land, discuss list conversations were often initiated (if not
always) by non-developers expressing wishes, comments, complaints or
other OT stuff, though that latter was limited. Developers intervened
and explained and invariably politely explicated what was what.
However, that was the old OOo site. The new Apache one has a stronger
developer focus. It's not as much a discursive site as the old. So, I
tend, using that logic, to favour a purely dev@ list focused on
development.
But there remains the problem—or virtue—of the non-developer
contributor whose contributions are immensely valuable and include not
just localizations, but also extensions, templates, etc. etc., that
make OOo as usable as it is (and would make it even more usable).
Where these discussions take place is the question.
-louis
> Don
>
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Donald Whytock <dw...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:48 PM, eric b <er...@free.fr> wrote:
> As a compromise, what about to create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org ?
We could certainly move all the name-calling there...
At the moment, though, policy issues, legal issues and the like are
still development issues simply because the precedents haven't yet
been set. So what would be talked about on ooo-discuss that wouldn't
have an impact here?
Or would that be a place for those discussions that take on a life of
their own, such that someone says, "Okay, let's take this to
ooo-discuss", whereupon it gets hashed out and comes back here with a
[Proposal]?
Don
Re: [Request] create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org mailing list
Posted by Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu>.
2011.11.08. 21:48 keltezéssel, eric b írta:
> Hi,
>
> Looking at the archives (see [1]), the flow of mails we receive every
> day, on ooo-dev mailing list is really big, and not always
> "development" relevant. And more than 1500 mails every month, is maybe
> too much (of me it is). Of course, I'm the first to think, some topics
> are important, interesting and must be debated, but we reached some
> limit, and must, say ... improve the situation.
>
> As a compromise, what about to create ooo-discuss@incubator.apache.org ?
You think, you can separate the mails you not interested in?
I think it is an attempt which will not give positive result to you.
The subscribers can submit any topic on this list which he/she seems to
be related to the development, and another subscriber think it is fit
into other list, and what will happens, nothing.
The mails can be ignored, which is out of your interest.
What a topics discussed here, you propose to discuss on
ooo-discuss@i.a.o list?
Please add more details, as new potential subscriber. Why I will think,
it worth to subscribe to this new list?
As consequence this list traffic will be less? Or we creating an useless
empty list.
Regards,
Zoltan
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestion / opinion :-)
>
>
> Regards,
> Eric Bachard
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/
>