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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Ted Kirby <te...@gmail.com> on 2010/11/04 13:19:59 UTC
Suggestions for improving new G and GEP user experiences
I have recently returned to community activity after a period of
inactivity. I have played with some of the introductory material, and
things have not gone that well. :-( I think G and GEP 3.0 have very
exciting content: JEE 6 and OSGi, and we are on track to be "early to
market" with our certified server. I think we want to attract new
users, and we want to be ready and attractive and easy to use when
they come. To that end, I offer these suggestions and feedback:
1. Geronimo v3.0, or at least v3.0-M1, should be listed on the main
page Documentation link http://geronimo.apache.org/documentation.html.
v3.0 is on the wiki page: https://cwiki.apache.org/geronimo/
2. I think we should have a "Getting Started" or "Quick Start" link on
the home page for folks to download and start running Geronimo
quickly. This page in the doc seems good:
https://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDOC30/quick-start-apache-geronimo-for-the-impatient.html.
(This page comes up first on the documentation, so maybe item 3 would
address this.)
3. I don't think a version should be released unless the "Quick Start"
actually works. If this is the entry point for new users, it should
work for each release. For 3.0-M1, there are two JIRAs on this:
GERONIMO-5488 and GERONIMO-5658.
4. Ditto for GEP. http://geronimo.apache.org/development-tools.html
is pretty good, but there is no mention of 3.0-M1. 3.0 is an exciting
release for JEE 6 and OSGi. Folks want to play with the technology.
We should help them get started.
5. The "1-minute Hello World Web Application Tutorial"
http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDOC22/how-to-use-geronimo-eclipse-plugin.html#HowtoUseGeronimoEclipsePlugin-DeployRunUndeployandRedeployanApplication
for GEP does not work for 3.0-M1. There is a deploy problem, and a
missing message problem. I think both the 1-minute and 5-minute
tutorial are part of the testsuite, and hence these errors should have
been caught if the testsuite were run. I recommend adding these
tutorials to the testsuite if they are not there. Again, before a GEP
version is released, someone should verify these tutorials work.
6. No GEP version should be released unless the testsuite passes.
7. News items on the main page http://geronimo.apache.org/ should have
dates. Currently, 1 of 5 does. When was 3.0-M1 released? It takes
two clicks to find out. I think dates on the download page
http://geronimo.apache.org/downloads.html (the first click) would be
nice.
8. There are no news items for the two recent GEP releases: 2.1.6 and
3.0-M1. I think all G and GEP releases should have news items,
including dates.
I think these suggestions will improve our product.
Thanks,
Ted Kirby
Re: Suggestions for improving new G and GEP user experiences
Posted by Ted Kirby <te...@gmail.com>.
Yes, there are various testsuite options, including os (windows, unix,
mac) and 32 v 64 bit. Perhaps ideally it would run on all of them.
There are platform differences on the mac. A big one is
Eclipse->preferences on mac vs. window->preferences on windows. This
affects the testsuite test cases. The testsuite was developed on
windows 32. I would say initially running the testsuite on windows 32
is a good start, and probably sufficient, certainly until it works on
mac. I am not familiar with SWTBOT. I did some investigation with
some knowledgeable folks, and Abbot still seems a reasonable choice.
However, I think we are using an older level of Abbot. I think we
should upgrade to the latest Abbot levels, which are early 2009, but
this is also a future item, I think. If SWTBOT is better or folks
want to use it, that seems fine with me. We do have an investment in
Abbot for the existing testsuite. See
https://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDEV/geronimo-eclipse-plugin-gep-testsuite.html
for testuite info.
Ted Kirby
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Delos <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As for testsuite, it's not required before so I agree it's necessary for a
> new GEP release. But it's difficult to assure the testsuite is runnable all
> the time, because Abbot always have some unknown issues when it's running on
> various OS. If possible, maybe we can consider to leverage other library
> such as SWTBOT.
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Ted Kirby <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have recently returned to community activity after a period of
>> inactivity. I have played with some of the introductory material, and
>> things have not gone that well. :-( I think G and GEP 3.0 have very
>> exciting content: JEE 6 and OSGi, and we are on track to be "early to
>> market" with our certified server. I think we want to attract new
>> users, and we want to be ready and attractive and easy to use when
>> they come. To that end, I offer these suggestions and feedback:
>>
>> 1. Geronimo v3.0, or at least v3.0-M1, should be listed on the main
>> page Documentation link http://geronimo.apache.org/documentation.html.
>> v3.0 is on the wiki page: https://cwiki.apache.org/geronimo/
>>
>> 2. I think we should have a "Getting Started" or "Quick Start" link on
>> the home page for folks to download and start running Geronimo
>> quickly. This page in the doc seems good:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDOC30/quick-start-apache-geronimo-for-the-impatient.html.
>> (This page comes up first on the documentation, so maybe item 3 would
>> address this.)
>>
>> 3. I don't think a version should be released unless the "Quick Start"
>> actually works. If this is the entry point for new users, it should
>> work for each release. For 3.0-M1, there are two JIRAs on this:
>> GERONIMO-5488 and GERONIMO-5658.
>>
>> 4. Ditto for GEP. http://geronimo.apache.org/development-tools.html
>> is pretty good, but there is no mention of 3.0-M1. 3.0 is an exciting
>> release for JEE 6 and OSGi. Folks want to play with the technology.
>> We should help them get started.
>>
>> 5. The "1-minute Hello World Web Application Tutorial"
>>
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDOC22/how-to-use-geronimo-eclipse-plugin.html#HowtoUseGeronimoEclipsePlugin-DeployRunUndeployandRedeployanApplication
>> for GEP does not work for 3.0-M1. There is a deploy problem, and a
>> missing message problem. I think both the 1-minute and 5-minute
>> tutorial are part of the testsuite, and hence these errors should have
>> been caught if the testsuite were run. I recommend adding these
>> tutorials to the testsuite if they are not there. Again, before a GEP
>> version is released, someone should verify these tutorials work.
>>
>> 6. No GEP version should be released unless the testsuite passes.
>>
>> 7. News items on the main page http://geronimo.apache.org/ should have
>> dates. Currently, 1 of 5 does. When was 3.0-M1 released? It takes
>> two clicks to find out. I think dates on the download page
>> http://geronimo.apache.org/downloads.html (the first click) would be
>> nice.
>>
>> 8. There are no news items for the two recent GEP releases: 2.1.6 and
>> 3.0-M1. I think all G and GEP releases should have news items,
>> including dates.
>>
>> I think these suggestions will improve our product.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ted Kirby
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Delos
>
Re: Suggestions for improving new G and GEP user experiences
Posted by Delos <da...@gmail.com>.
As for testsuite, it's not required before so I agree it's necessary for a
new GEP release. But it's difficult to assure the testsuite is runnable all
the time, because Abbot always have some unknown issues when it's running on
various OS. If possible, maybe we can consider to leverage other library
such as SWTBOT.
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Ted Kirby <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have recently returned to community activity after a period of
> inactivity. I have played with some of the introductory material, and
> things have not gone that well. :-( I think G and GEP 3.0 have very
> exciting content: JEE 6 and OSGi, and we are on track to be "early to
> market" with our certified server. I think we want to attract new
> users, and we want to be ready and attractive and easy to use when
> they come. To that end, I offer these suggestions and feedback:
>
> 1. Geronimo v3.0, or at least v3.0-M1, should be listed on the main
> page Documentation link http://geronimo.apache.org/documentation.html.
> v3.0 is on the wiki page: https://cwiki.apache.org/geronimo/
>
> 2. I think we should have a "Getting Started" or "Quick Start" link on
> the home page for folks to download and start running Geronimo
> quickly. This page in the doc seems good:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDOC30/quick-start-apache-geronimo-for-the-impatient.html
> .
> (This page comes up first on the documentation, so maybe item 3 would
> address this.)
>
> 3. I don't think a version should be released unless the "Quick Start"
> actually works. If this is the entry point for new users, it should
> work for each release. For 3.0-M1, there are two JIRAs on this:
> GERONIMO-5488 and GERONIMO-5658.
>
> 4. Ditto for GEP. http://geronimo.apache.org/development-tools.html
> is pretty good, but there is no mention of 3.0-M1. 3.0 is an exciting
> release for JEE 6 and OSGi. Folks want to play with the technology.
> We should help them get started.
>
> 5. The "1-minute Hello World Web Application Tutorial"
>
> http://cwiki.apache.org/GMOxDOC22/how-to-use-geronimo-eclipse-plugin.html#HowtoUseGeronimoEclipsePlugin-DeployRunUndeployandRedeployanApplication
> for GEP does not work for 3.0-M1. There is a deploy problem, and a
> missing message problem. I think both the 1-minute and 5-minute
> tutorial are part of the testsuite, and hence these errors should have
> been caught if the testsuite were run. I recommend adding these
> tutorials to the testsuite if they are not there. Again, before a GEP
> version is released, someone should verify these tutorials work.
>
> 6. No GEP version should be released unless the testsuite passes.
>
> 7. News items on the main page http://geronimo.apache.org/ should have
> dates. Currently, 1 of 5 does. When was 3.0-M1 released? It takes
> two clicks to find out. I think dates on the download page
> http://geronimo.apache.org/downloads.html (the first click) would be
> nice.
>
> 8. There are no news items for the two recent GEP releases: 2.1.6 and
> 3.0-M1. I think all G and GEP releases should have news items,
> including dates.
>
> I think these suggestions will improve our product.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted Kirby
>
--
Best Regards,
Delos