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Posted to fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Olivier Cailloux <ol...@dauphine.fr> on 2021/11/24 21:36:37 UTC
Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Dear FOP developers,
As you know, hyphenation files are not distributed with FOP for
licencing reasons
(https://fop-dev.markmail.org/search/?q=lppl#query:lppl+page:1+mid:oov35g53cjfk4vcm+state:results
). I guess everybody agree that it would be good to have at least some
of these files licenced in a way that is appropriate for including them
back in the FOP trunk. Am I correct?
As a first attempt towards that goal, I have targeted the french
hyphenation file
(https://svn.lal.in2p3.fr/LCG/QWG/External/offo-hyphenation-fop-1.0/licenses.html#fr
). The file frhyph.tex mentions that it is “available for free and can
used and redistributed asis for free. Modified versions should have
another name.” So the only remaining problem was with the author of
french.lh (http://jeffreykingston.id.au/) as he had not given specific
licencing information, and the file french.lh is part of Lout, under
GPL. I just contacted him and he wrote to me that he modified only the
first part of the file (the rest as we know is what became the
frhyph.tex file), and that he is ready to place his modifications into
the public domain (here is the exact quote: “File french.lh was not
really made by me. There is a small amount of trivial stuff at the top
that I added, but when you get down to line 63 it is just a TeX
hyphenation file written by someone else. So that makes the license not
my business, I believe. The first 62 lines were made by me and I hereby
place them into the public domain.”)
I assume there would be some paper work and possibly a required check
that that author really has the copyright (and not, for example, the
company producing Lout)? But I thought I’d better contact you before
pursuing with this endeavor.
Please tell me if you would agree to integrate some of these
hyphenation files back in the main FOP software, assuming the licencing
issues can be solved; and if so, tell me what I should ask this author
or whether you want to contact him directly.
If this works, I consider also working towards including English and
Spanish files, so that FOP would have hyphenation for three popular
languages working out of the box and with non restrictive licencing.
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Chris Bowditch <bo...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Olivier,
We (the FOP PMC) are not legal experts. The guidance we have suggests an
ICLA is required for the work being submitted. However, feel free to
e-mail legal@apache.org and CC fop-dev on this matter to see what
alternative arrangement might be possible
Thanks,
Chris
On 07/12/2021 11:04, Olivier Cailloux wrote:
> Le mardi 07 décembre 2021 à 10:24 +0000, Simon Steiner a écrit :
>> You cant change the licence of something, you would need to get the
>> original author to publish under apache or bsd licence.
>> GPL licence is not compatible with Apache licence.
> The author that owns the copyright agrees to put his work in the public
> domain. That work is therefore no more constrained by the GPL licence.
>
>
> .
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Olivier Cailloux <ol...@dauphine.fr>.
Le mardi 07 décembre 2021 à 10:24 +0000, Simon Steiner a écrit :
> You cant change the licence of something, you would need to get the
> original author to publish under apache or bsd licence.
> GPL licence is not compatible with Apache licence.
The author that owns the copyright agrees to put his work in the public
domain. That work is therefore no more constrained by the GPL licence.
RE: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Simon Steiner <si...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
You cant change the licence of something, you would need to get the original author to publish under apache or bsd licence.
GPL licence is not compatible with Apache licence.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: Olivier Cailloux <ol...@dauphine.fr>
Sent: 07 December 2021 10:06
To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Subject: Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Le lundi 06 décembre 2021 à 17:43 +0100, Olivier Cailloux a écrit :
> Le lundi 06 décembre 2021 à 10:05 +0000, Chris Bowditch a écrit :
> > Thanks for trying. Unfortunately the Apache Legal team will require
> > an ICLA before this file can be accepted into our code base
>
> Are you sure? The Apache policy,
> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html, reads: “You can include
> works in the public domain (or covered by a license treated similarly)
> within Apache products. (…) A work should be treated as being in the
> public domain when (…) the work is covered by (…) a suitable
> dedication (to the public domain) by the authors”.
>
> Another option would include me publishing that file on a GitHub
> repository of my own with a clear Public Domain indication (with due
> credits to the author, of course) so that FOP could then reuse that.
I meant: I could publish that file under a suitable license that respects the decision of all preceding authors; and sign an ICLA to Apache, if necessary. I fail to see a reason that FOP could not include that file, then.
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Olivier Cailloux <ol...@dauphine.fr>.
Le lundi 06 décembre 2021 à 17:43 +0100, Olivier Cailloux a écrit :
> Le lundi 06 décembre 2021 à 10:05 +0000, Chris Bowditch a écrit :
> > Thanks for trying. Unfortunately the Apache Legal team will require an
> > ICLA before this file can be accepted into our code base
>
> Are you sure? The Apache policy,
> https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html, reads: “You can include
> works in the public domain (or covered by a license treated similarly)
> within Apache products. (…) A work should be treated as being in the
> public domain when (…) the work is covered by (…) a suitable dedication
> (to the public domain) by the authors”.
>
> Another option would include me publishing that file on a GitHub
> repository of my own with a clear Public Domain indication (with due
> credits to the author, of course) so that FOP could then reuse that.
I meant: I could publish that file under a suitable license that
respects the decision of all preceding authors; and sign an ICLA to
Apache, if necessary. I fail to see a reason that FOP could not include
that file, then.
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Olivier Cailloux <ol...@dauphine.fr>.
Le lundi 06 décembre 2021 à 10:05 +0000, Chris Bowditch a écrit :
> Thanks for trying. Unfortunately the Apache Legal team will require an
> ICLA before this file can be accepted into our code base
Are you sure? The Apache policy,
https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html, reads: “You can include
works in the public domain (or covered by a license treated similarly)
within Apache products. (…) A work should be treated as being in the
public domain when (…) the work is covered by (…) a suitable dedication
(to the public domain) by the authors”.
Another option would include me publishing that file on a GitHub
repository of my own with a clear Public Domain indication (with due
credits to the author, of course) so that FOP could then reuse that.
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Chris Bowditch <bo...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Olivier,
Thanks for trying. Unfortunately the Apache Legal team will require an
ICLA before this file can be accepted into our code base
Thanks,
Chris
On 02/12/2021 09:37, Olivier Cailloux wrote:
> Le jeudi 25 novembre 2021 à 09:01 +0000, Chris Bowditch a écrit :
>> HI Olivier,
>>
>> yes I agree it would be nice to include some hyphenation files in the
>> FOP distribution.
>>
>> The author of the file would need to submit an ICLA, which would be an
>> official declaration that the copyright is handed over to Apache.
> The author initially had written to me: “The first 62 lines were made
> by me and I hereby place them into the public domain.”
>
> Following your suggestion, I wrote to him again, asking for an ICLA and
> to confirm to me that he has the copyright on that work. To which he
> replied the following. “Sorry, I'm not into paperwork. I've already
> stated in an email that I have placed those lines into the public
> domain. And I did write them myself and I was not contracted to anyone
> else.”
>
> Is there anything we can do? It seems reasonable to me to reuse this
> file even without proper ICLA, as the author has clearly stated his
> intent.
>
> I can of course forward our e-mail conversation to interested
> developers.
>
>
> .
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Olivier Cailloux <ol...@dauphine.fr>.
Le jeudi 25 novembre 2021 à 09:01 +0000, Chris Bowditch a écrit :
> HI Olivier,
>
> yes I agree it would be nice to include some hyphenation files in the
> FOP distribution.
>
> The author of the file would need to submit an ICLA, which would be an
> official declaration that the copyright is handed over to Apache.
The author initially had written to me: “The first 62 lines were made
by me and I hereby place them into the public domain.”
Following your suggestion, I wrote to him again, asking for an ICLA and
to confirm to me that he has the copyright on that work. To which he
replied the following. “Sorry, I'm not into paperwork. I've already
stated in an email that I have placed those lines into the public
domain. And I did write them myself and I was not contracted to anyone
else.”
Is there anything we can do? It seems reasonable to me to reuse this
file even without proper ICLA, as the author has clearly stated his
intent.
I can of course forward our e-mail conversation to interested
developers.
Re: Hyphenation files with suitable licencing conditions
Posted by Chris Bowditch <bo...@hotmail.com>.
HI Olivier,
yes I agree it would be nice to include some hyphenation files in the
FOP distribution.
The author of the file would need to submit an ICLA, which would be an
official declaration that the copyright is handed over to Apache.
Thanks,
Chris
On 24/11/2021 21:36, Olivier Cailloux wrote:
> Dear FOP developers,
>
> As you know, hyphenation files are not distributed with FOP for
> licencing reasons
> (https://fop-dev.markmail.org/search/?q=lppl#query:lppl+page:1+mid:oov35g53cjfk4vcm+state:results
> ). I guess everybody agree that it would be good to have at least some
> of these files licenced in a way that is appropriate for including them
> back in the FOP trunk. Am I correct?
>
> As a first attempt towards that goal, I have targeted the french
> hyphenation file
> (https://svn.lal.in2p3.fr/LCG/QWG/External/offo-hyphenation-fop-1.0/licenses.html#fr
> ). The file frhyph.tex mentions that it is “available for free and can
> used and redistributed asis for free. Modified versions should have
> another name.” So the only remaining problem was with the author of
> french.lh (http://jeffreykingston.id.au/) as he had not given specific
> licencing information, and the file french.lh is part of Lout, under
> GPL. I just contacted him and he wrote to me that he modified only the
> first part of the file (the rest as we know is what became the
> frhyph.tex file), and that he is ready to place his modifications into
> the public domain (here is the exact quote: “File french.lh was not
> really made by me. There is a small amount of trivial stuff at the top
> that I added, but when you get down to line 63 it is just a TeX
> hyphenation file written by someone else. So that makes the license not
> my business, I believe. The first 62 lines were made by me and I hereby
> place them into the public domain.”)
>
> I assume there would be some paper work and possibly a required check
> that that author really has the copyright (and not, for example, the
> company producing Lout)? But I thought I’d better contact you before
> pursuing with this endeavor.
>
> Please tell me if you would agree to integrate some of these
> hyphenation files back in the main FOP software, assuming the licencing
> issues can be solved; and if so, tell me what I should ask this author
> or whether you want to contact him directly.
>
> If this works, I consider also working towards including English and
> Spanish files, so that FOP would have hyphenation for three popular
> languages working out of the box and with non restrictive licencing.
>
> .