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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org> on 2002/12/05 13:00:26 UTC

[VOTE] Tomcat modules

Hi,

I plan to reorganize the jakarta-tomcat-catalina repository as follows:
- catalina folder: Catalina core; this depends on the servlet API
- modules folders: Optional functionality and modules (one example is 
clustering), but which depends on the Catalina API; this does not 
directly depend on the servlet API

Alternately, using another repository (j-t-modules) is possible, but 
just using a folder looks simpler, as there is an API dependency.

I propose putting independent modules in j-t-connectors (like eventually 
some of the naming features).

<ballot>
+1 [ ]
-1 [ ]
</ballot>

Remy


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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by Jeanfrancois Arcand <jf...@apache.org>.

Remy Maucherat wrote:

>
> <ballot>
> +1 [X ]
> -1 [ ]
> </ballot>
>
> Remy
>
I like the idea of having j-t-module, because it's look like 
jakarta-commons. But j-t-connector is fine for now.

-- Jeanfrancois


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Re: minimal

Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Glenn Nielsen wrote:
> The minimal will need some form of minimal docs, perhaps just the config 
> reference
> as an HTML file?

Or an HTML with a small message ("hi, this is mini-tomcat, please go 
online for the full docs") a metarefresh to the Tomcat website ?

Remy


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Re: minimal

Posted by Glenn Nielsen <gl...@mail.more.net>.
The minimal will need some form of minimal docs, perhaps just the config reference
as an HTML file?

Glenn

Costin Manolache wrote:
> Another try:
> 
> Required libs:
> - JMX
> - JAAS
> - JNDI
> - digester ( and beanutils, collections it needs ). 
> - modeler
> - ant ( required by jasper runtime and startup )
> - commons-logging
> When/if the JNDI-based abstraction of config files is ready we'll not
> need digester - but most likely it'll still be required by
> modeler, and also by jasper, so I don't think we can remove it.
> 
> Minimal:
> - subset of catalina ( non-deprecated interfaces and base impl that is 
> required for tomcat to work ).
> - coyote
> - tomcat-util
> - http11/jk2
> - all valves/etc that are required for tomcat to operate.
> - naming
> - jasper ( at least jasper runtime - but probably the whole thing ).
> 
> Optional:
> - all components with external deps. 
> - all components that are not required to get tomcat running
> as a fully-functional servlet container.
> - admin webapp
> - example webapps
> - manager ( since JMX can already do most of the stuff that's there )
> - slide  ( if we agree to replace our internal webdav with the real thing )
> - struts ( required by admin, but also as a separate component ).
> - extra taglibs
> - doc webapp
> 
> This can changes as we go - this is just to get things started.
> We can add more stuff in the optional - like other jakarta projects,
> log4j, etc. 
> 
> The "full" distribution will include minimal+optional.
> 
> The goal is to keep "minimal" small :-)
>  
> Costin
> 
> 
> 
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Re: minimal

Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/5 11:51 AM, "Costin Manolache" <cm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> - jasper ( at least jasper runtime - but probably the whole thing ).

Now that we have JSR 154 and JSR 153, can't we make a distribution of Tomcat
that does not include Jasper? That would rock. =)

-jon

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Re: minimal

Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Another try:

Required libs:
- JMX
- JAAS
- JNDI
- digester ( and beanutils, collections it needs ). 
- modeler
- ant ( required by jasper runtime and startup )
- commons-logging
When/if the JNDI-based abstraction of config files is ready we'll not
need digester - but most likely it'll still be required by
modeler, and also by jasper, so I don't think we can remove it.

Minimal:
- subset of catalina ( non-deprecated interfaces and base impl that is 
required for tomcat to work ).
- coyote
- tomcat-util
- http11/jk2
- all valves/etc that are required for tomcat to operate.
- naming
- jasper ( at least jasper runtime - but probably the whole thing ).

Optional:
- all components with external deps. 
- all components that are not required to get tomcat running
as a fully-functional servlet container.
- admin webapp
- example webapps
- manager ( since JMX can already do most of the stuff that's there )
- slide  ( if we agree to replace our internal webdav with the real thing )
- struts ( required by admin, but also as a separate component ).
- extra taglibs
- doc webapp

This can changes as we go - this is just to get things started.
We can add more stuff in the optional - like other jakarta projects,
log4j, etc. 

The "full" distribution will include minimal+optional.

The goal is to keep "minimal" small :-)
 
Costin



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Re: minimal

Posted by Jeanfrancois Arcand <jf...@apache.org>.

Remy Maucherat wrote:

> Costin Manolache wrote:
>
>> Jeanfrancois Arcand wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yep. There is a couple of Realm/Authenticator that can be optional (the
>>> default one should stay in the core module)
>>
>>
>>
>> Speaking of defaults:
>> - Should we make the JAAS realm the default ? Or at least include it 
>> in the core ? In my opinion the user.xml Realm should eventually be
>> rewritten as a JAAS plugin - and same for the LDAP/JDBC ones. But
>> I don't have the time, so including both jaas and user.xml in the 
>> minimal would be a reasonable solution. 
>
+1

>>
>>
>> - I think the vote on JMX passed ( or will pass). Do we agree on 
>> requiring JAAS and JNDI ( i.e JDK1.3 or JDK1.2 + jndi.jar + jaas.jar ) ?
>> That would eliminate some of the conditionals and clean up things. 
>
+1

>>
>>
>> One major criteria for making things "optional" can be the external
>> dependencies ( on non-required features ). Another thing that can be 
>> made "optional" for 5.0 is the deprecated stuff we include only for
>> backward compatibility.
>>
>> My current preference for the list of "required":
>> - JMX
>> - JAAS
>> - JNDI
>> - digester ( and beanutils it needs ) 
>
+ collections (digester use it)

>>
>
> Ok. If we use a JNDI context to abstract the XML, we could remove the 
> digester (or, OTOH, we could use the digester to populate the JNDI 
> context). Wasn't that the idea ?
>
>> And components to be included in minimal:
>> - catalina
>
>
> I think we'll be able to remove things in there.
>
>> - coyote
>> - tomcat-util
>> - http11/jk2
>> - all valves/etc that are required for tomcat to operate.
>> - naming 
>
What about Struts? Do we want the Admin App included as minimal? If yes, 
then Jasper will need to be added to the list

>>
>
> +1.
>
>> For optional:
>> - all components with external deps. - all components that are not 
>> required to get tomcat running
>> as a fully-functional servlet container.
>
>>
>
> +1. 

+1

Jeanfrancois

>
>
> Remy
>
>
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>


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Re: minimal

Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Jeanfrancois Arcand wrote:
> 
> 
>>Yep. There is a couple of Realm/Authenticator that can be optional (the
>>default one should stay in the core module)
> 
> 
> Speaking of defaults: 
> 
> - Should we make the JAAS realm the default ? Or at least include it 
> in the core ? In my opinion the user.xml Realm should eventually be
> rewritten as a JAAS plugin - and same for the LDAP/JDBC ones. But
> I don't have the time, so including both jaas and user.xml in the 
> minimal would be a reasonable solution.
> 
> - I think the vote on JMX passed ( or will pass). Do we agree on 
> requiring JAAS and JNDI ( i.e JDK1.3 or JDK1.2 + jndi.jar + jaas.jar ) ?
> That would eliminate some of the conditionals and clean up things.
> 
> One major criteria for making things "optional" can be the external
> dependencies ( on non-required features ). Another thing that can be 
> made "optional" for 5.0 is the deprecated stuff we include only for
> backward compatibility.
> 
> My current preference for the list of "required":
> - JMX
> - JAAS
> - JNDI
> - digester ( and beanutils it needs )

Ok. If we use a JNDI context to abstract the XML, we could remove the 
digester (or, OTOH, we could use the digester to populate the JNDI 
context). Wasn't that the idea ?

> And components to be included in minimal:
> - catalina

I think we'll be able to remove things in there.

> - coyote
> - tomcat-util
> - http11/jk2
> - all valves/etc that are required for tomcat to operate.
> - naming

+1.

> For optional:
> - all components with external deps. 
> - all components that are not required to get tomcat running
> as a fully-functional servlet container.

+1.

Remy


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Re: minimal

Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/12/5 10:34 AM, "Costin Manolache" <cm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> And components to be included in minimal:
> - catalina
> - coyote
> - tomcat-util
> - http11/jk2
> - all valves/etc that are required for tomcat to operate.
> - naming

I'm 100% +1 on a minimal distribution of Tomcat 4 that only includes enough
crud to allow "normal" servlets to run.

I have one with Scarab and it was a PITA to create because I basically had
to trial and error which .jar files needed to be included (and where). Take
a look at Scarab's distribution of Tomcat.

http://scarab.tigris.org/source/browse/scarab/src/tomcat-4.1/

-jon

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minimal

Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Jeanfrancois Arcand wrote:

> Yep. There is a couple of Realm/Authenticator that can be optional (the
> default one should stay in the core module)

Speaking of defaults: 

- Should we make the JAAS realm the default ? Or at least include it 
in the core ? In my opinion the user.xml Realm should eventually be
rewritten as a JAAS plugin - and same for the LDAP/JDBC ones. But
I don't have the time, so including both jaas and user.xml in the 
minimal would be a reasonable solution.

- I think the vote on JMX passed ( or will pass). Do we agree on 
requiring JAAS and JNDI ( i.e JDK1.3 or JDK1.2 + jndi.jar + jaas.jar ) ?
That would eliminate some of the conditionals and clean up things.

One major criteria for making things "optional" can be the external
dependencies ( on non-required features ). Another thing that can be 
made "optional" for 5.0 is the deprecated stuff we include only for
backward compatibility.

My current preference for the list of "required":
- JMX
- JAAS
- JNDI
- digester ( and beanutils it needs )

And components to be included in minimal:
- catalina
- coyote
- tomcat-util
- http11/jk2
- all valves/etc that are required for tomcat to operate.
- naming

For optional:
- all components with external deps. 
- all components that are not required to get tomcat running
as a fully-functional servlet container.


Costin




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Re: build files ( again )

Posted by Jeanfrancois Arcand <jf...@apache.org>.

Costin Manolache wrote:

>Since we are talking about clean and organized: 
>
>Can I (re)move the antcall to jk, http11, jtc from 
>j-t-catalina/catalina/build.xml ? j-t5 is the main
>build file and it should call all 'child' build.xml files 
>directly.
>
+1

>
>Is anyone else using the "build" target ? Any objections
>to creating all the output in j-t5 ( as done "build" ) 
>instead of all the different dirs and then copy ?
>
+1. This should speed up the process

>
>Another one: I added a flag "build.tomcat.minimal" and
>split the compile target in catalina/build.xml. One piece
>will build the core stuff, the other will build all 
>optional code ( unless minimal is set ). You shouldn't
>notice any change. 
>We do have to decide what is optional and what is not.
>  
>
Yep. There is a couple of Realm/Authenticator that can be optional (the 
default one should stay in the core module)

-- Jeanfrancois

>
>Costin
>
>
>
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>
>
>  
>


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Re: build files ( again )

Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Since we are talking about clean and organized: 
> 
> Can I (re)move the antcall to jk, http11, jtc from 
> j-t-catalina/catalina/build.xml ? j-t5 is the main
> build file and it should call all 'child' build.xml files 
> directly.
> 
> Is anyone else using the "build" target ? Any objections
> to creating all the output in j-t5 ( as done "build" ) 
> instead of all the different dirs and then copy ?

If it works, yes.

> Another one: I added a flag "build.tomcat.minimal" and
> split the compile target in catalina/build.xml. One piece
> will build the core stuff, the other will build all 
> optional code ( unless minimal is set ). You shouldn't
> notice any change. 
> We do have to decide what is optional and what is not.

It would be best to build both at the same time, rather than using a 
flag. At least that would make my life much easier (the 4.1 style is 
painful and error prone when building a binary).

Remy


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build files ( again )

Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Since we are talking about clean and organized: 

Can I (re)move the antcall to jk, http11, jtc from 
j-t-catalina/catalina/build.xml ? j-t5 is the main
build file and it should call all 'child' build.xml files 
directly.

Is anyone else using the "build" target ? Any objections
to creating all the output in j-t5 ( as done "build" ) 
instead of all the different dirs and then copy ?

Another one: I added a flag "build.tomcat.minimal" and
split the compile target in catalina/build.xml. One piece
will build the core stuff, the other will build all 
optional code ( unless minimal is set ). You shouldn't
notice any change. 
We do have to decide what is optional and what is not.

Costin



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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by Glenn Nielsen <gl...@mail.more.net>.
+1

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Costin Manolache wrote:
> 
>> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I plan to reorganize the jakarta-tomcat-catalina repository as follows:
>>> - catalina folder: Catalina core; this depends on the servlet API
>>> - modules folders: Optional functionality and modules (one example is
>>> clustering), but which depends on the Catalina API; this does not
>>> directly depend on the servlet API
>>>
>>> Alternately, using another repository (j-t-modules) is possible, but
>>> just using a folder looks simpler, as there is an API dependency.
>>>
>>> I propose putting independent modules in j-t-connectors (like eventually
>>> some of the naming features).
>>>
>>> <ballot>
>>> +1 [X]  -1 [ ]
>>> </ballot>
>>
>>
>>
>> Some comments: while it is a good idea for the new code ( clustering ),
>> it's probably not worth moving the existing code around. At least not 
>> until we decide about the Action and auth*.
>> Code that is independent of catalina core should be in j-t-connectors 
>> or j-t-modules. Probably a modules cvs repository would make sense - but
>> there's no problem with using j-t-connectors.
> 
> 
> Ok, so to paraphrase:
> - Catalina core: stays in j-t-catalina/catalina
> - Modules which use the Catalina API: j-t-catalina/modules (or by 
> component name, like j-t-catalina/cluster ?)
> - Rest: j-t-c
> 
> I won't bother moving code around for now then (and you like doing that 
> way too much, so I'll let you do it if it's needed ;-) ).
> 
> Remy
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:

> Costin Manolache wrote:
>> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I plan to reorganize the jakarta-tomcat-catalina repository as follows:
>>>- catalina folder: Catalina core; this depends on the servlet API
>>>- modules folders: Optional functionality and modules (one example is
>>>clustering), but which depends on the Catalina API; this does not
>>>directly depend on the servlet API
>>>
>>>Alternately, using another repository (j-t-modules) is possible, but
>>>just using a folder looks simpler, as there is an API dependency.
>>>
>>>I propose putting independent modules in j-t-connectors (like eventually
>>>some of the naming features).
>>>
>>><ballot>
>>>+1 [X]
>>>-1 [ ]
>>></ballot>
>> 
>> 
>> Some comments: while it is a good idea for the new code ( clustering ),
>> it's probably not worth moving the existing code around. At least
>> not until we decide about the Action and auth*.
>> 
>> Code that is independent of catalina core should be in j-t-connectors or
>> j-t-modules. Probably a modules cvs repository would make sense - but
>> there's no problem with using j-t-connectors.
> 
> Ok, so to paraphrase:
> - Catalina core: stays in j-t-catalina/catalina
> - Modules which use the Catalina API: j-t-catalina/modules (or by
> component name, like j-t-catalina/cluster ?)

I think j-t-catalina/cluster is better. 

> - Rest: j-t-c

Sounds good. j-t-module may be better name - but I don't think it's 
worth the effort. Maybe we just extend "connector" to more than
web-server-connector, but external-stuff-connector :-)


> I won't bother moving code around for now then (and you like doing that
> way too much, so I'll let you do it if it's needed ;-) ).

Please do move the cluster and new stuff :-)
I like things to be clear and well organized - but we should first 
have a clear decision on what we want. Cluster seems clear - 
it'll be optional, well separated - and minimal interface changes in
catalina to support it. ( later on we can support other kinds of 
cluster - in addition to javagroup - if we want, in a separate module ).

Costin






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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.

On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Remy Maucherat wrote:

>
> Ok, so to paraphrase:
> - Catalina core: stays in j-t-catalina/catalina
> - Modules which use the Catalina API: j-t-catalina/modules (or by
> component name, like j-t-catalina/cluster ?)

Or maybe j-t-catalina/modules/cluster so that the individual modules are
independent of each other but are easily found?

Craig




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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I plan to reorganize the jakarta-tomcat-catalina repository as follows:
>>- catalina folder: Catalina core; this depends on the servlet API
>>- modules folders: Optional functionality and modules (one example is
>>clustering), but which depends on the Catalina API; this does not
>>directly depend on the servlet API
>>
>>Alternately, using another repository (j-t-modules) is possible, but
>>just using a folder looks simpler, as there is an API dependency.
>>
>>I propose putting independent modules in j-t-connectors (like eventually
>>some of the naming features).
>>
>><ballot>
>>+1 [X]  
>>-1 [ ]
>></ballot>
> 
> 
> Some comments: while it is a good idea for the new code ( clustering ),
> it's probably not worth moving the existing code around. At least 
> not until we decide about the Action and auth*. 
> 
> Code that is independent of catalina core should be in j-t-connectors or 
> j-t-modules. Probably a modules cvs repository would make sense - but
> there's no problem with using j-t-connectors.

Ok, so to paraphrase:
- Catalina core: stays in j-t-catalina/catalina
- Modules which use the Catalina API: j-t-catalina/modules (or by 
component name, like j-t-catalina/cluster ?)
- Rest: j-t-c

I won't bother moving code around for now then (and you like doing that 
way too much, so I'll let you do it if it's needed ;-) ).

Remy


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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I plan to reorganize the jakarta-tomcat-catalina repository as follows:
> - catalina folder: Catalina core; this depends on the servlet API
> - modules folders: Optional functionality and modules (one example is
> clustering), but which depends on the Catalina API; this does not
> directly depend on the servlet API
> 
> Alternately, using another repository (j-t-modules) is possible, but
> just using a folder looks simpler, as there is an API dependency.
> 
> I propose putting independent modules in j-t-connectors (like eventually
> some of the naming features).
> 
> <ballot>
> +1 [X]  
> -1 [ ]
> </ballot>

Some comments: while it is a good idea for the new code ( clustering ),
it's probably not worth moving the existing code around. At least 
not until we decide about the Action and auth*. 

Code that is independent of catalina core should be in j-t-connectors or 
j-t-modules. Probably a modules cvs repository would make sense - but
there's no problem with using j-t-connectors.


Costin

 


> 
> Remy




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Re: [VOTE] Tomcat modules

Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I plan to reorganize the jakarta-tomcat-catalina repository as follows:
> - catalina folder: Catalina core; this depends on the servlet API
> - modules folders: Optional functionality and modules (one example is 
> clustering), but which depends on the Catalina API; this does not 
> directly depend on the servlet API
> 
> Alternately, using another repository (j-t-modules) is possible, but 
> just using a folder looks simpler, as there is an API dependency.
> 
> I propose putting independent modules in j-t-connectors (like eventually 
> some of the naming features).
> 
> <ballot>
> +1 [ ]
> -1 [ ]
> </ballot>

+0

I'm pretty busy these days so I can't help even if this
and the clustering are of very interest for me.

Regards



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