Let's rewrite OFBiz in ... (was: Clear trend...)

[Al Byers <by...@automationgroups.com>]

Just kidding in the subject. But I think it is an interesting discussion.

Wouldn't Groovy require a licensed Java runtime and therefore not
qualify as a replacement for Java?

I am thinking that because more and more sites will be doing mashups
of data from different source sites (and for other reasons, like
HTML5), that more work will be drawn in from server apps to client
apps (ie. javascript) and the interactions with the server will be
more of the simpler RESTful type. If that is the case, there would be
some incentive to use the same language on the server as on the client
(ie. javascript). I think that is why you are seeing more
javascript-based servers and frameworks cropping up which are
initially designed to handle the RESTful transactions. The new
javascript engines solve the speed problem and the single-threaded
problem is being solved other ways.

-Al

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Jacques Le Roux <jl...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Sorry to underestand in place of David,
>
> Groovy, I guess since David is using it heavily in Moqui
>
> I like Scala too (like js it's Object Oriented and Functional also but more
> "serious" I'd say
> I must say I don't much about it yet http://www.scala-lang.org/
>
> Jacques
>
> Al Byers wrote:
>>
>> Ok David, I'll bite; I would like to know what alternatives to Java
>> you think are worth considering. Is Javascript one of them (my pick)?
>>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:12 PM, David E Jones <de...@me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Back to being serious: thank goodness technology has progressed far
>>> beyond such things. They were ridiculously limited and
>>> required huge amounts of human effort to create the simplest software, or
>>> meet the simplest needs.
>>> I don't know what you mean by "Java goes commercial", IMO Java is already
>>> commercial and efforts to move it toward being more
>>> open have been problematic. Either way, if Java is compromised it will
>>> only open the way for something newer and better to come
>>> along, and frankly there are already various decent alternatives.
>>> -David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:14 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>>> started wire wrapped s-100 system, 1n 1976 had a full 2k of 8bit memory
>>>> with a boot strap that I loaded with switches that then
>>>> loaded a monitor from a cassette tape. that gave a chance to enter my
>>>> code in hex, that i wrote out on paper, then saved it to
>>>> cassette tape. That was my first OS. Then there was exidy OS with rom
>>>> packs for applications. finally cpm with c code so could expand.
>>>> small c then pascal, then C#.
>>>> then a got a 5 1/4 drive with i86 board that mounted on it and got
>>>> compiled cpm for it. I really wanted an Apple. Closest I got
>>>> was an amiga. got Dos to work then windows 1.3
>>>> worked for a lot of early computer manufactures including apple and
>>>> commodore.
>>>> still have pascal with the source code, so if and when Java goes
>>>> commercial, I will revert all code to pascal and Ai.
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>> Specialtymarket.com <http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>
>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David E Jones sent the following on 2/23/2011 12:37 PM:
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I still use DOS. You can learn everything there is to know
>>>>> about it in a few weeks, and I got that out of the way
>>>>> nearly two decades ago. I'm a happy camper.
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 12:19 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The better tool is the one you know
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still use netscape
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 2/23/2011 11:21 AM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200807-201101
>
>

Re: Let's rewrite OFBiz in ... (was: Clear trend...)

[Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>]

From: "BJ Freeman" <bj...@free-man.net>
>I have been moving as much as I can from java classes to minilanq to get 
> ready for a total redesign, by replacing the java classes with Pascal.
> this puts the actually program at machine code level so has to be 
> compiled for the processor it runs on.
> 
> The real headache will be replacing all the libraries used in ofbiz.
> 
> the minilang relies on calling the "helper" classes and libraries more 
> than it does now.
> 
> if you put stuff in JavaScript there is no continuity between browser 
> implementations, so can not designed anything.

jQuery hides those problems, not sure it's 100% reliable though...

Jacques
 
> Plus then you put the processing on the client, you are taking away from 
> the power of client to run other process.
> 
> I am running into this in FF with 30 browser windows, that average 5 
> tabs open.
> with all the activity the sites have they use about 35-50% cpu time.
> 
> 
> Al Byers sent the following on 2/24/2011 10:11 AM:
>> Just kidding in the subject. But I think it is an interesting discussion.
>>
>> Wouldn't Groovy require a licensed Java runtime and therefore not
>> qualify as a replacement for Java?
>>
>> I am thinking that because more and more sites will be doing mashups
>> of data from different source sites (and for other reasons, like
>> HTML5), that more work will be drawn in from server apps to client
>> apps (ie. javascript) and the interactions with the server will be
>> more of the simpler RESTful type. If that is the case, there would be
>> some incentive to use the same language on the server as on the client
>> (ie. javascript). I think that is why you are seeing more
>> javascript-based servers and frameworks cropping up which are
>> initially designed to handle the RESTful transactions. The new
>> javascript engines solve the speed problem and the single-threaded
>> problem is being solved other ways.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Jacques Le Roux<jl...@les7arts.com>  wrote:
>>> Sorry to underestand in place of David,
>>>
>>> Groovy, I guess since David is using it heavily in Moqui
>>>
>>> I like Scala too (like js it's Object Oriented and Functional also but more
>>> "serious" I'd say
>>> I must say I don't much about it yet http://www.scala-lang.org/
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Al Byers wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ok David, I'll bite; I would like to know what alternatives to Java
>>>> you think are worth considering. Is Javascript one of them (my pick)?
>>>>
>>>> -Al
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:12 PM, David E Jones<de...@me.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to being serious: thank goodness technology has progressed far
>>>>> beyond such things. They were ridiculously limited and
>>>>> required huge amounts of human effort to create the simplest software, or
>>>>> meet the simplest needs.
>>>>> I don't know what you mean by "Java goes commercial", IMO Java is already
>>>>> commercial and efforts to move it toward being more
>>>>> open have been problematic. Either way, if Java is compromised it will
>>>>> only open the way for something newer and better to come
>>>>> along, and frankly there are already various decent alternatives.
>>>>> -David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:14 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> started wire wrapped s-100 system, 1n 1976 had a full 2k of 8bit memory
>>>>>> with a boot strap that I loaded with switches that then
>>>>>> loaded a monitor from a cassette tape. that gave a chance to enter my
>>>>>> code in hex, that i wrote out on paper, then saved it to
>>>>>> cassette tape. That was my first OS. Then there was exidy OS with rom
>>>>>> packs for applications. finally cpm with c code so could expand.
>>>>>> small c then pascal, then C#.
>>>>>> then a got a 5 1/4 drive with i86 board that mounted on it and got
>>>>>> compiled cpm for it. I really wanted an Apple. Closest I got
>>>>>> was an amiga. got Dos to work then windows 1.3
>>>>>> worked for a lot of early computer manufactures including apple and
>>>>>> commodore.
>>>>>> still have pascal with the source code, so if and when Java goes
>>>>>> commercial, I will revert all code to pascal and Ai.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David E Jones sent the following on 2/23/2011 12:37 PM:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's why I still use DOS. You can learn everything there is to know
>>>>>>> about it in a few weeks, and I got that out of the way
>>>>>>> nearly two decades ago. I'm a happy camper.
>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 12:19 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The better tool is the one you know
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I still use netscape
>>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 2/23/2011 11:21 AM:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200807-201101
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Let's rewrite OFBiz in ... (was: Clear trend...)

[BJ Freeman <bj...@free-man.net>]

I have been moving as much as I can from java classes to minilanq to get 
ready for a total redesign, by replacing the java classes with Pascal.
this puts the actually program at machine code level so has to be 
compiled for the processor it runs on.

The real headache will be replacing all the libraries used in ofbiz.

the minilang relies on calling the "helper" classes and libraries more 
than it does now.

if you put stuff in JavaScript there is no continuity between browser 
implementations, so can not designed anything.

Plus then you put the processing on the client, you are taking away from 
the power of client to run other process.

I am running into this in FF with 30 browser windows, that average 5 
tabs open.
with all the activity the sites have they use about 35-50% cpu time.


Al Byers sent the following on 2/24/2011 10:11 AM:
> Just kidding in the subject. But I think it is an interesting discussion.
>
> Wouldn't Groovy require a licensed Java runtime and therefore not
> qualify as a replacement for Java?
>
> I am thinking that because more and more sites will be doing mashups
> of data from different source sites (and for other reasons, like
> HTML5), that more work will be drawn in from server apps to client
> apps (ie. javascript) and the interactions with the server will be
> more of the simpler RESTful type. If that is the case, there would be
> some incentive to use the same language on the server as on the client
> (ie. javascript). I think that is why you are seeing more
> javascript-based servers and frameworks cropping up which are
> initially designed to handle the RESTful transactions. The new
> javascript engines solve the speed problem and the single-threaded
> problem is being solved other ways.
>
> -Al
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Jacques Le Roux<jl...@les7arts.com>  wrote:
>> Sorry to underestand in place of David,
>>
>> Groovy, I guess since David is using it heavily in Moqui
>>
>> I like Scala too (like js it's Object Oriented and Functional also but more
>> "serious" I'd say
>> I must say I don't much about it yet http://www.scala-lang.org/
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Al Byers wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok David, I'll bite; I would like to know what alternatives to Java
>>> you think are worth considering. Is Javascript one of them (my pick)?
>>>
>>> -Al
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:12 PM, David E Jones<de...@me.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Back to being serious: thank goodness technology has progressed far
>>>> beyond such things. They were ridiculously limited and
>>>> required huge amounts of human effort to create the simplest software, or
>>>> meet the simplest needs.
>>>> I don't know what you mean by "Java goes commercial", IMO Java is already
>>>> commercial and efforts to move it toward being more
>>>> open have been problematic. Either way, if Java is compromised it will
>>>> only open the way for something newer and better to come
>>>> along, and frankly there are already various decent alternatives.
>>>> -David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:14 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> started wire wrapped s-100 system, 1n 1976 had a full 2k of 8bit memory
>>>>> with a boot strap that I loaded with switches that then
>>>>> loaded a monitor from a cassette tape. that gave a chance to enter my
>>>>> code in hex, that i wrote out on paper, then saved it to
>>>>> cassette tape. That was my first OS. Then there was exidy OS with rom
>>>>> packs for applications. finally cpm with c code so could expand.
>>>>> small c then pascal, then C#.
>>>>> then a got a 5 1/4 drive with i86 board that mounted on it and got
>>>>> compiled cpm for it. I really wanted an Apple. Closest I got
>>>>> was an amiga. got Dos to work then windows 1.3
>>>>> worked for a lot of early computer manufactures including apple and
>>>>> commodore.
>>>>> still have pascal with the source code, so if and when Java goes
>>>>> commercial, I will revert all code to pascal and Ai.
>>>>>
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>
>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David E Jones sent the following on 2/23/2011 12:37 PM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's why I still use DOS. You can learn everything there is to know
>>>>>> about it in a few weeks, and I got that out of the way
>>>>>> nearly two decades ago. I'm a happy camper.
>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 23, 2011, at 12:19 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The better tool is the one you know
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BJ Freeman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still use netscape
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier
>>>>>>>> Automation<http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>>>>> Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux sent the following on 2/23/2011 11:21 AM:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200807-201101
>>
>>
>