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Posted to server-dev@james.apache.org by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk> on 2002/06/04 10:38:05 UTC
Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
hi everybody,
is here anybody know how to configure tomcat+james to
run in a single process. suggestions are all welcome.
warm regards
Mohan DB2
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Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Mohan,
>hi everybody,
> is here anybody know how to configure tomcat+james to
>run in a single process. suggestions are all welcome.
>
>
A tomcat 'block' is being worked on, so yes it will shortly.
An 'assembler' will be able to make a custom package of JAMES and Tomcat
(Catalina). In the fullness of time, we'll be able to allow servlets
ditrect access to the service interfaces of JAMES. Subject to suitable
configuration of course.
- Paul
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Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Michael,
We're trying to make Phoenix an industrial strength app. Think
WebLogic. Love it or hate it, it is big.
We'd certainly suggest that an 'assembler' could choose one or two VMs
for such a configuration.
- Paul
>Mohan,
>
>While it is true that starting and running a single JVM instance is less
>expensive (mostly in terms of memory)
>than starting and running two or more JVMs on the same processor/box,
>there are several good reasons for
>keeping Tomcat and James running in separate JVMs. Trying to avoid the
>"overhead" of two JVMs really
>doesn't gain you anything significant. What is more critical is the work
>done inside the two threads (James,Tomcat).
>
>Heap size is a concern. JVMs have a limit on the amount of memory they use
>by default. You can run the JVM with a -server
>option, which AFAIK increases that limit. However, depending on your load,
>having both Tomcat and James in the same JVM may cause you to run
>into a shortage of resources within the JVM, even though you may have
>saved on memory outside the JVM.
>
>Second, you are putting all your eggs in one basket (sorry for the idiom).
>Putting both Tomcat and James in the same JVM
>is not a fault-tolerant solution. If the JVM crashes, you lose both your
>servers. If your clients have a two processor machine,
>or two boxes, keeping them separate will provide you and them with a more
>scaleable solution.
>
>Third, it should be relatively simple for you to write a custom
>start/build script that runs both Tomcat and James. In this way, it
>still "looks" like you are starting a single process, but inside the
>script you start 2 JVMs (or call the Tomcat startup script and the James
>startup script). That approach is much easier than trying to tie the two
>binaries together or compile a custom version.
>
>If you are looking for tutorials for Tomcat, the documentation within the
>Tomcat distributions and on the tomcat website is
>very good. http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/ The default configuration
>for the Tomcat distribution runs with minimal changes.
>Of course, what JSP/webapps you put in from there is another story ;) The
>tomcat-users mailing list should be fairly helpful along with the docs.
>I hope this has been helpful.
>
>Cheers,
>Michael
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
>To: "James Developers List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:02 AM
>Subject: RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
>
>
>>single JVM process will reduce the overload.
>>u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
>>efficient when compared to two process server.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Can you expand what you mean by *hack*? JavaMail uses a socket factory,
you specify a socket factory, you get SSL. Sounds like a well designed
approach. I'm not sure what you were doing in your TLSRemoteDelivery
mailet, but just by the name of it I'm wondering how/why you were
determining whether a message should be sent via TLS. That
determination seems like the biggest issue, not the socket/delivery
mechanism.
I haven't had time to review your recent submission as I keep working
too late. I'm hoping tonight I'll have some time.
Unfortunately I can't provide any more info about the problems with the
Avalon thread pools. What I have seen is James handling SMTP and POP3
traffic, remotely delivering messages, but messages are just stuck in
the spool. Restart fixed it, and there were no log messages to explain
what happened. I've never had any luck debugging Avalon (resisting all
temptations to rant :)
--
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com
Andrei Ivanov wrote:
> Hi, Serge
>
>
>>smtp). You add 2 properties to the
>>javax.mail.Session properties, and
>
>
> No, this is not correct. This article is good example of how to *hack* java
> mail to make it SSL enabled but nothing more. I implemented one client (my
> first version of TLSRemoteDelivery) using this article, but alas this
> approach is not compatible with Avalon ideology at all.
>
>
>>from fine tuning from years of experience dealing with what other mail
>
> I have to think about that, because, honestly, this is my deep concern as
> well. So far I am not ready to give answer for this your argument. But I
> still stay for my points from my previous email.
>
>
>>But ultimately, it's all about the code. I'm happy to look over
>>whatever you would like to submit
>
>
> Did you have time to review my recent submission (SMTPServer-Handler)?
>
> Andrei
>
> PS could you please share more information about the problems you've
> experienced with excalibur threads. How I can repeat those? This is *very*
> critical for James based the solution I am working on.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Serge Knystautas" <se...@lokitech.com>
> To: "James Developers List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 4:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
>
>>Andrei Ivanov wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>I was about to offer this, just wanted so that initiative is not going
>>
> from
>
>>>me :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>>We'd be pleased to accept your kind offer to contribute... ;-D
>>>>
>>>
>>>So I have RemoteDelivery mailet which doesn't use JavaMail for
>>
> transport,
>
>>>which uses excalibur threads and cornerstone socket factory (and of
>>
> course
>
>>>support TLS and so on). It works very well ;-D
>>>Unfortunately I implemented it before I got a chance to look at JavaMail
>>>sources which were released recently. Now I see some ways to improve it.
>>>
>>>Anyway before any further contributions from me I would like to hear
>>
> from
>
>>>Serge about my improvements to SMTPServer-Handler submitted recently :-)
>>>
>>>Andrei
>>
>>Well, I'm not really enamored with refactoring working James code just
>>because Avalon provides functionality XYZ. I can understand the
>>consistency argument. However, I also have found the Avalon thread
>>pooler to be less reliable than the quick and dirty approach used by
>>RemoteDelivery (periodically I've had to restart James because the spool
>>manager threads had all died/hung while I haven't seen this with remote
>>delivery).
>>
>>I would like to remove the JavaMail delivery dependency because JavaMail
>>is not really a server-geared API. That said, SMTP is an incredibly
>>challenging API not because of its complexity, but because it's been
>>around for so long and there are so many liberties other servers take
>>with it. The settings that RemoteDelivery passes to the Transport are
>>from fine tuning from years of experience dealing with what other mail
>>servers can stand to hear. Introducing a whole new codebase can be
>>extremely risky, because even if you can't deliver to 5% of the mail
>>servers out there, you're going to hear about it (but probably not until
>>a couple of weeks of bounces have been going on).
>>
>>As for SSL transport delivery, I think that's a reason to stick with
>>JavaMail actually... it's much more standard and well documented than
>>moving to a custom SMTP implementation and Avalon sockets. Here's a
>>good article on the matter
>>
>
> http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javatips/jw-javatip115.html?remote_addr=2
> 09.1.23.157&user_agent=Ultraseek/IDG.net
>
>>(this talks about securing other providers, but the same should work for
>>smtp). You add 2 properties to the javax.mail.Session properties, and
>>boom, you've got SMTP w/SSL. Doesn't seem like we need to refactor there.
>>
>>But ultimately, it's all about the code. I'm happy to look over
>>whatever you would like to submit, and I'll let you know what I think.
>>I just wanted to share some of my reservations going into this.
>>--
>>Serge Knystautas
>>Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
>>http://www.lokitech.com
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Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi>.
Hi, Serge
> smtp). You add 2 properties to the
>javax.mail.Session properties, and
No, this is not correct. This article is good example of how to *hack* java
mail to make it SSL enabled but nothing more. I implemented one client (my
first version of TLSRemoteDelivery) using this article, but alas this
approach is not compatible with Avalon ideology at all.
> from fine tuning from years of experience dealing with what other mail
I have to think about that, because, honestly, this is my deep concern as
well. So far I am not ready to give answer for this your argument. But I
still stay for my points from my previous email.
> But ultimately, it's all about the code. I'm happy to look over
> whatever you would like to submit
Did you have time to review my recent submission (SMTPServer-Handler)?
Andrei
PS could you please share more information about the problems you've
experienced with excalibur threads. How I can repeat those? This is *very*
critical for James based the solution I am working on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Serge Knystautas" <se...@lokitech.com>
To: "James Developers List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
> Andrei Ivanov wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I was about to offer this, just wanted so that initiative is not going
from
> > me :-)
> >
> >>We'd be pleased to accept your kind offer to contribute... ;-D
> >>
> >
> > So I have RemoteDelivery mailet which doesn't use JavaMail for
transport,
> > which uses excalibur threads and cornerstone socket factory (and of
course
> > support TLS and so on). It works very well ;-D
> > Unfortunately I implemented it before I got a chance to look at JavaMail
> > sources which were released recently. Now I see some ways to improve it.
> >
> > Anyway before any further contributions from me I would like to hear
from
> > Serge about my improvements to SMTPServer-Handler submitted recently :-)
> >
> > Andrei
>
> Well, I'm not really enamored with refactoring working James code just
> because Avalon provides functionality XYZ. I can understand the
> consistency argument. However, I also have found the Avalon thread
> pooler to be less reliable than the quick and dirty approach used by
> RemoteDelivery (periodically I've had to restart James because the spool
> manager threads had all died/hung while I haven't seen this with remote
> delivery).
>
> I would like to remove the JavaMail delivery dependency because JavaMail
> is not really a server-geared API. That said, SMTP is an incredibly
> challenging API not because of its complexity, but because it's been
> around for so long and there are so many liberties other servers take
> with it. The settings that RemoteDelivery passes to the Transport are
> from fine tuning from years of experience dealing with what other mail
> servers can stand to hear. Introducing a whole new codebase can be
> extremely risky, because even if you can't deliver to 5% of the mail
> servers out there, you're going to hear about it (but probably not until
> a couple of weeks of bounces have been going on).
>
> As for SSL transport delivery, I think that's a reason to stick with
> JavaMail actually... it's much more standard and well documented than
> moving to a custom SMTP implementation and Avalon sockets. Here's a
> good article on the matter
>
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javatips/jw-javatip115.html?remote_addr=2
09.1.23.157&user_agent=Ultraseek/IDG.net
> (this talks about securing other providers, but the same should work for
> smtp). You add 2 properties to the javax.mail.Session properties, and
> boom, you've got SMTP w/SSL. Doesn't seem like we need to refactor there.
>
> But ultimately, it's all about the code. I'm happy to look over
> whatever you would like to submit, and I'll let you know what I think.
> I just wanted to share some of my reservations going into this.
> --
> Serge Knystautas
> Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
> http://www.lokitech.com
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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RE: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> That said, SMTP is an incredibly
> challenging API not because of its complexity, but because it's been
> around for so long and there are so many liberties other servers take
> with it.
Thats a good point, and one thats reflected in the number of tiny but
significant bugs in both James and JavaMail (not just the SMTP bits).
There are so many idiosyncracies which have crept into the standards and
common practices that it is difficult to handle every "boundary condition"
satisfactorily, it is my opinion that we don't duplicate work done by Sun
wherever possible.
That said I also think that we could improve performance of remote delivery
by batching up mail to be delivered to a single host and delivering it in a
single session.
d.
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Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Andrei Ivanov wrote:
> Hi,
> I was about to offer this, just wanted so that initiative is not going from
> me :-)
>
>>We'd be pleased to accept your kind offer to contribute... ;-D
>>
>
> So I have RemoteDelivery mailet which doesn't use JavaMail for transport,
> which uses excalibur threads and cornerstone socket factory (and of course
> support TLS and so on). It works very well ;-D
> Unfortunately I implemented it before I got a chance to look at JavaMail
> sources which were released recently. Now I see some ways to improve it.
>
> Anyway before any further contributions from me I would like to hear from
> Serge about my improvements to SMTPServer-Handler submitted recently :-)
>
> Andrei
Well, I'm not really enamored with refactoring working James code just
because Avalon provides functionality XYZ. I can understand the
consistency argument. However, I also have found the Avalon thread
pooler to be less reliable than the quick and dirty approach used by
RemoteDelivery (periodically I've had to restart James because the spool
manager threads had all died/hung while I haven't seen this with remote
delivery).
I would like to remove the JavaMail delivery dependency because JavaMail
is not really a server-geared API. That said, SMTP is an incredibly
challenging API not because of its complexity, but because it's been
around for so long and there are so many liberties other servers take
with it. The settings that RemoteDelivery passes to the Transport are
from fine tuning from years of experience dealing with what other mail
servers can stand to hear. Introducing a whole new codebase can be
extremely risky, because even if you can't deliver to 5% of the mail
servers out there, you're going to hear about it (but probably not until
a couple of weeks of bounces have been going on).
As for SSL transport delivery, I think that's a reason to stick with
JavaMail actually... it's much more standard and well documented than
moving to a custom SMTP implementation and Avalon sockets. Here's a
good article on the matter
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javatips/jw-javatip115.html?remote_addr=209.1.23.157&user_agent=Ultraseek/IDG.net
(this talks about securing other providers, but the same should work for
smtp). You add 2 properties to the javax.mail.Session properties, and
boom, you've got SMTP w/SSL. Doesn't seem like we need to refactor there.
But ultimately, it's all about the code. I'm happy to look over
whatever you would like to submit, and I'll let you know what I think.
I just wanted to share some of my reservations going into this.
--
Serge Knystautas
Loki Technologies - Unstoppable Websites
http://www.lokitech.com
--
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Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi>.
Hi,
I was about to offer this, just wanted so that initiative is not going from
me :-)
>
> We'd be pleased to accept your kind offer to contribute... ;-D
>
So I have RemoteDelivery mailet which doesn't use JavaMail for transport,
which uses excalibur threads and cornerstone socket factory (and of course
support TLS and so on). It works very well ;-D
Unfortunately I implemented it before I got a chance to look at JavaMail
sources which were released recently. Now I see some ways to improve it.
Anyway before any further contributions from me I would like to hear from
Serge about my improvements to SMTPServer-Handler submitted recently :-)
Andrei
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RE: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> This doesn't mean that it can not work better, though :-). There is a
> consideration of consistency (this is what Avalon and frameworks basically
> about). I conclude that RemoteDelivery implementation is not
> consistent with
> Phoenix-Cornerstone in particular and Avalon framework in general.
We'd be pleased to accept your kind offer to contribute... ;-D
d.
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Re: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi>.
Hi,
I am monitoring discussions here for a quite along time.
>
> There have been discussions about this, however the fact is that it works,
> its stable, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
>
This doesn't mean that it can not work better, though :-). There is a
consideration of consistency (this is what Avalon and frameworks basically
about). I conclude that RemoteDelivery implementation is not consistent with
Phoenix-Cornerstone in particular and Avalon framework in general.
> We've had a few discussions about the use of JavaMail, why would you think
> we should not use it?
Because this way we don't have control on how sockets are created. Try to
implement SSL for present RemoteDelivery :-)
Andrei
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RE: Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> When I came across with this phrase. Do you mean same way as threads
> created in RemoteDelivery? I don't think this is a right way. My
> opinion is
> that RemoteDelivery needs to be refactored asap.
There have been discusions about this, however the fact is that it works,
its stable, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> It shall use
> Phoenix-Excalibur threads and it shall not use JavaMail for SMTP transport
> (cornerstone socket factory shall be used instead)
We've had a few discussions about the use of JavaMail, why would you think
we should not use it?
d.
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Threads in James: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi>.
Hi,
just a side note.
> In James' case you would either use phonenix to host another service, or
you
> could use Mailets to start new threads.
When I came across with this phrase. Do you mean same way as threads
created in RemoteDelivery? I don't think this is a right way. My opinion is
that RemoteDelivery needs to be refactored asap. It shall use
Phoenix-Excalibur threads and it shall not use JavaMail for SMTP transport
(cornerstone socket factory shall be used instead)
Andrei
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Try http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon for a start
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohan narayanaswamy [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 05 June 2002 10:12
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> Thank you danny,
> where can i get beginers document about phonenix and
> avlon framework
>
> warm regards Mohan
>
> --- Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> wrote: > >
> Client can simply invoke only one script which
> > is
> > > easy to maintain. And by tradition normally all
> > the
> > > product will run in a single process( am not sure
> > ).
> > > moreover what i want to know is how can i embed
> > or
> > > include some other package inside james or tomcat.
> > so
> > > that we can integarate any other server.
> >
> > In James' case you would either use phonenix to host
> > another service, or you
> > could use Mailets to start new threads.
> >
> > d.
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Thank you danny,
where can i get beginers document about phonenix and
avlon framework
warm regards Mohan
--- Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> wrote: > >
Client can simply invoke only one script which
> is
> > easy to maintain. And by tradition normally all
> the
> > product will run in a single process( am not sure
> ).
> > moreover what i want to know is how can i embed
> or
> > include some other package inside james or tomcat.
> so
> > that we can integarate any other server.
>
> In James' case you would either use phonenix to host
> another service, or you
> could use Mailets to start new threads.
>
> d.
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> Client can simply invoke only one script which is
> easy to maintain. And by tradition normally all the
> product will run in a single process( am not sure ).
> moreover what i want to know is how can i embed or
> include some other package inside james or tomcat. so
> that we can integarate any other server.
In James' case you would either use phonenix to host another service, or you
could use Mailets to start new threads.
d.
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Thanks Mr.Clinton Goudie,
I am going to try this. I'll get back u asap.
:) Thanks lot.
with warm regards,
Mohan
--- Clinton Goudie <Cl...@magicalspirits.net>
wrote: > If you really want to pull this off, create
yourself
> a java class that looks
> about like this...
>
> public class WebServices{
> public static void main(String[] args){
> new Thread(){
> public void run(){
>
> org.apache.avalon.phoenix.launcher.Main.main(null);
> }
> }.start();
> new Thread(){
> public void run(){
>
>
org.apache.catalina.startup.BootstrapService.main(null);
> }
> }.start();
> }
> }
>
> Compile it and off you should go.
>
> The next step would be to configure the
> JavaService.exe that tomcat uses to
> start and stop this wrapper class..;
>
> Keep in mind the liabilities you're encountering
> that have already been
> discussed involving memory and resources. In
> addition you also have the
> liability that if either app calles System.exit it's
> going to kill both.
>
> Personally, I prefer to run them both as separate
> services so that I can
> stop and start the different services individually.
>
> Clint
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohan narayanaswamy
> [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:20 AM
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
> Thankyou Michael,
>
> I am seriously thinking about ur way of solution.
> it's
> too cool.
> But i have some silly questions in my mind. if EJB
> container+any-embeded-sql-server(java based)+servlet
> container can run in a single JVM why can't i do the
> same. And think about the other benefits.
>
> Client can simply invoke only one script which is
> easy to maintain. And by tradition normally all the
> product will run in a single process( am not sure ).
> moreover what i want to know is how can i embed or
> include some other package inside james or tomcat.
> so
> that we can integarate any other server.
>
> with warm regards
> Mohan
>
>
>
> --- Michael Locasto <ml...@pfsmarketing.com>
> wrote: > Mohan,
> >
> > While it is true that starting and running a
> single
> > JVM instance is less
> > expensive (mostly in terms of memory)
> > than starting and running two or more JVMs on the
> > same processor/box,
> > there are several good reasons for
> > keeping Tomcat and James running in separate JVMs.
> > Trying to avoid the
> > "overhead" of two JVMs really
> > doesn't gain you anything significant. What is
> more
> > critical is the work
> > done inside the two threads (James,Tomcat).
> >
> > Heap size is a concern. JVMs have a limit on the
> > amount of memory they use
> > by default. You can run the JVM with a -server
> > option, which AFAIK increases that limit. However,
> > depending on your load,
> > having both Tomcat and James in the same JVM may
> > cause you to run
> > into a shortage of resources within the JVM, even
> > though you may have
> > saved on memory outside the JVM.
> >
> > Second, you are putting all your eggs in one
> basket
> > (sorry for the idiom).
> > Putting both Tomcat and James in the same JVM
> > is not a fault-tolerant solution. If the JVM
> > crashes, you lose both your
> > servers. If your clients have a two processor
> > machine,
> > or two boxes, keeping them separate will provide
> you
> > and them with a more
> > scaleable solution.
> >
> > Third, it should be relatively simple for you to
> > write a custom
> > start/build script that runs both Tomcat and
> James.
> > In this way, it
> > still "looks" like you are starting a single
> > process, but inside the
> > script you start 2 JVMs (or call the Tomcat
> startup
> > script and the James
> > startup script). That approach is much easier than
> > trying to tie the two
> > binaries together or compile a custom version.
> >
> > If you are looking for tutorials for Tomcat, the
> > documentation within the
> > Tomcat distributions and on the tomcat website is
> > very good. http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/ The
> > default configuration
> > for the Tomcat distribution runs with minimal
> > changes.
> > Of course, what JSP/webapps you put in from there
> is
> > another story ;) The
> > tomcat-users mailing list should be fairly helpful
> > along with the docs.
> > I hope this has been helpful.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: "James Developers List"
> > <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:02 AM
> > Subject: RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm
> process
> >
> >
> > > single JVM process will reduce the overload.
> > > u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
> > > efficient when compared to two process server.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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>
> --
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> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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>
>
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Clinton Goudie <Cl...@magicalspirits.net>.
If you really want to pull this off, create yourself a java class that looks
about like this...
public class WebServices{
public static void main(String[] args){
new Thread(){
public void run(){
org.apache.avalon.phoenix.launcher.Main.main(null);
}
}.start();
new Thread(){
public void run(){
org.apache.catalina.startup.BootstrapService.main(null);
}
}.start();
}
}
Compile it and off you should go.
The next step would be to configure the JavaService.exe that tomcat uses to
start and stop this wrapper class..;
Keep in mind the liabilities you're encountering that have already been
discussed involving memory and resources. In addition you also have the
liability that if either app calles System.exit it's going to kill both.
Personally, I prefer to run them both as separate services so that I can
stop and start the different services individually.
Clint
-----Original Message-----
From: mohan narayanaswamy [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:20 AM
To: James Developers List
Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Thankyou Michael,
I am seriously thinking about ur way of solution. it's
too cool.
But i have some silly questions in my mind. if EJB
container+any-embeded-sql-server(java based)+servlet
container can run in a single JVM why can't i do the
same. And think about the other benefits.
Client can simply invoke only one script which is
easy to maintain. And by tradition normally all the
product will run in a single process( am not sure ).
moreover what i want to know is how can i embed or
include some other package inside james or tomcat. so
that we can integarate any other server.
with warm regards
Mohan
--- Michael Locasto <ml...@pfsmarketing.com>
wrote: > Mohan,
>
> While it is true that starting and running a single
> JVM instance is less
> expensive (mostly in terms of memory)
> than starting and running two or more JVMs on the
> same processor/box,
> there are several good reasons for
> keeping Tomcat and James running in separate JVMs.
> Trying to avoid the
> "overhead" of two JVMs really
> doesn't gain you anything significant. What is more
> critical is the work
> done inside the two threads (James,Tomcat).
>
> Heap size is a concern. JVMs have a limit on the
> amount of memory they use
> by default. You can run the JVM with a -server
> option, which AFAIK increases that limit. However,
> depending on your load,
> having both Tomcat and James in the same JVM may
> cause you to run
> into a shortage of resources within the JVM, even
> though you may have
> saved on memory outside the JVM.
>
> Second, you are putting all your eggs in one basket
> (sorry for the idiom).
> Putting both Tomcat and James in the same JVM
> is not a fault-tolerant solution. If the JVM
> crashes, you lose both your
> servers. If your clients have a two processor
> machine,
> or two boxes, keeping them separate will provide you
> and them with a more
> scaleable solution.
>
> Third, it should be relatively simple for you to
> write a custom
> start/build script that runs both Tomcat and James.
> In this way, it
> still "looks" like you are starting a single
> process, but inside the
> script you start 2 JVMs (or call the Tomcat startup
> script and the James
> startup script). That approach is much easier than
> trying to tie the two
> binaries together or compile a custom version.
>
> If you are looking for tutorials for Tomcat, the
> documentation within the
> Tomcat distributions and on the tomcat website is
> very good. http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/ The
> default configuration
> for the Tomcat distribution runs with minimal
> changes.
> Of course, what JSP/webapps you put in from there is
> another story ;) The
> tomcat-users mailing list should be fairly helpful
> along with the docs.
> I hope this has been helpful.
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "James Developers List"
> <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:02 AM
> Subject: RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> > single JVM process will reduce the overload.
> > u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
> > efficient when compared to two process server.
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
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Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
--
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For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Thankyou Michael,
I am seriously thinking about ur way of solution. it's
too cool.
But i have some silly questions in my mind. if EJB
container+any-embeded-sql-server(java based)+servlet
container can run in a single JVM why can't i do the
same. And think about the other benefits.
Client can simply invoke only one script which is
easy to maintain. And by tradition normally all the
product will run in a single process( am not sure ).
moreover what i want to know is how can i embed or
include some other package inside james or tomcat. so
that we can integarate any other server.
with warm regards
Mohan
--- Michael Locasto <ml...@pfsmarketing.com>
wrote: > Mohan,
>
> While it is true that starting and running a single
> JVM instance is less
> expensive (mostly in terms of memory)
> than starting and running two or more JVMs on the
> same processor/box,
> there are several good reasons for
> keeping Tomcat and James running in separate JVMs.
> Trying to avoid the
> "overhead" of two JVMs really
> doesn't gain you anything significant. What is more
> critical is the work
> done inside the two threads (James,Tomcat).
>
> Heap size is a concern. JVMs have a limit on the
> amount of memory they use
> by default. You can run the JVM with a -server
> option, which AFAIK increases that limit. However,
> depending on your load,
> having both Tomcat and James in the same JVM may
> cause you to run
> into a shortage of resources within the JVM, even
> though you may have
> saved on memory outside the JVM.
>
> Second, you are putting all your eggs in one basket
> (sorry for the idiom).
> Putting both Tomcat and James in the same JVM
> is not a fault-tolerant solution. If the JVM
> crashes, you lose both your
> servers. If your clients have a two processor
> machine,
> or two boxes, keeping them separate will provide you
> and them with a more
> scaleable solution.
>
> Third, it should be relatively simple for you to
> write a custom
> start/build script that runs both Tomcat and James.
> In this way, it
> still "looks" like you are starting a single
> process, but inside the
> script you start 2 JVMs (or call the Tomcat startup
> script and the James
> startup script). That approach is much easier than
> trying to tie the two
> binaries together or compile a custom version.
>
> If you are looking for tutorials for Tomcat, the
> documentation within the
> Tomcat distributions and on the tomcat website is
> very good. http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/ The
> default configuration
> for the Tomcat distribution runs with minimal
> changes.
> Of course, what JSP/webapps you put in from there is
> another story ;) The
> tomcat-users mailing list should be fairly helpful
> along with the docs.
> I hope this has been helpful.
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: "James Developers List"
> <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:02 AM
> Subject: RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> > single JVM process will reduce the overload.
> > u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
> > efficient when compared to two process server.
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Michael Locasto <ml...@pfsmarketing.com>.
Mohan,
While it is true that starting and running a single JVM instance is less
expensive (mostly in terms of memory)
than starting and running two or more JVMs on the same processor/box,
there are several good reasons for
keeping Tomcat and James running in separate JVMs. Trying to avoid the
"overhead" of two JVMs really
doesn't gain you anything significant. What is more critical is the work
done inside the two threads (James,Tomcat).
Heap size is a concern. JVMs have a limit on the amount of memory they use
by default. You can run the JVM with a -server
option, which AFAIK increases that limit. However, depending on your load,
having both Tomcat and James in the same JVM may cause you to run
into a shortage of resources within the JVM, even though you may have
saved on memory outside the JVM.
Second, you are putting all your eggs in one basket (sorry for the idiom).
Putting both Tomcat and James in the same JVM
is not a fault-tolerant solution. If the JVM crashes, you lose both your
servers. If your clients have a two processor machine,
or two boxes, keeping them separate will provide you and them with a more
scaleable solution.
Third, it should be relatively simple for you to write a custom
start/build script that runs both Tomcat and James. In this way, it
still "looks" like you are starting a single process, but inside the
script you start 2 JVMs (or call the Tomcat startup script and the James
startup script). That approach is much easier than trying to tie the two
binaries together or compile a custom version.
If you are looking for tutorials for Tomcat, the documentation within the
Tomcat distributions and on the tomcat website is
very good. http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/ The default configuration
for the Tomcat distribution runs with minimal changes.
Of course, what JSP/webapps you put in from there is another story ;) The
tomcat-users mailing list should be fairly helpful along with the docs.
I hope this has been helpful.
Cheers,
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "James Developers List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:02 AM
Subject: RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
> single JVM process will reduce the overload.
> u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
> efficient when compared to two process server.
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Thank u vinay,
--- Vinay Chandran <vi...@yahoo.com> wrote: >
Hi,
> If its a matter of having a web server and JAMES
> within phoenix , try the Jo!
> URL: http://www.tagtraum.com/
> Its avalon-ized/phoenix-ed. :-)
>
> .V i n a y.
>
>
> --- mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > single JVM process will reduce the overload.
> > u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
> > efficient when compared to two process server.
> >
> > --- Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> wrote: > I'm
> not
> > clear why you would want to do this..
> > > compared with running them
> > > seperately on the same machine
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mohan narayanaswamy
> > > [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> > > > Sent: 04 June 2002 11:39
> > > > To: James Developers List
> > > > Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm
> > > process
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > hi everybody,
> > > > I never thought that i get this reply within
> > > this
> > > > much of short period. Thankyou everybody.
> > > >
> > > > Actually i want to build a custom network
> > software
> > > > (webserver+mail server 100% java) so that it
> > will
> > > be
> > > > helpful to lot of small & medium type of
> > > > organisations. The problem is "am new to java
> &
> > > > james". i dont know the bootstrap
> > > > architecture(process) of james and
> > > tomcat(CATALINA).
> > > > is there any tutorial to learn it.
> > > >
> > > > I want to run a webserver(using catalina)+mail
> > > > server(using James) in a single JVM process.
> if
> > i
> > > can
> > > > embed any one inside another software that's
> > > enough to
> > > > me. or atleast i like to run both in a single
> > > > process(i think its a single JVM process).
> > > >
> > > > Once again thanks to Andrei Ivanov,Paul
> > > Hammant,Simon
> > > > Klaiber
> > > >
> > > > with warm regards & thanks
> > > > Mohan
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > >
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Vinay Chandran <vi...@yahoo.com>.
Hi,
If its a matter of having a web server and JAMES
within phoenix , try the Jo!
URL: http://www.tagtraum.com/
Its avalon-ized/phoenix-ed. :-)
.V i n a y.
--- mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> single JVM process will reduce the overload.
> u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
> efficient when compared to two process server.
>
> --- Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> wrote: > I'm not
> clear why you would want to do this..
> > compared with running them
> > seperately on the same machine
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mohan narayanaswamy
> > [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> > > Sent: 04 June 2002 11:39
> > > To: James Developers List
> > > Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm
> > process
> > >
> > >
> > > hi everybody,
> > > I never thought that i get this reply within
> > this
> > > much of short period. Thankyou everybody.
> > >
> > > Actually i want to build a custom network
> software
> > > (webserver+mail server 100% java) so that it
> will
> > be
> > > helpful to lot of small & medium type of
> > > organisations. The problem is "am new to java &
> > > james". i dont know the bootstrap
> > > architecture(process) of james and
> > tomcat(CATALINA).
> > > is there any tutorial to learn it.
> > >
> > > I want to run a webserver(using catalina)+mail
> > > server(using James) in a single JVM process. if
> i
> > can
> > > embed any one inside another software that's
> > enough to
> > > me. or atleast i like to run both in a single
> > > process(i think its a single JVM process).
> > >
> > > Once again thanks to Andrei Ivanov,Paul
> > Hammant,Simon
> > > Klaiber
> > >
> > > with warm regards & thanks
> > > Mohan
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
single JVM process will reduce the overload.
u will be required less cpu,memory and moreover
efficient when compared to two process server.
--- Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> wrote: > I'm not
clear why you would want to do this..
> compared with running them
> seperately on the same machine
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mohan narayanaswamy
> [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> > Sent: 04 June 2002 11:39
> > To: James Developers List
> > Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm
> process
> >
> >
> > hi everybody,
> > I never thought that i get this reply within
> this
> > much of short period. Thankyou everybody.
> >
> > Actually i want to build a custom network software
> > (webserver+mail server 100% java) so that it will
> be
> > helpful to lot of small & medium type of
> > organisations. The problem is "am new to java &
> > james". i dont know the bootstrap
> > architecture(process) of james and
> tomcat(CATALINA).
> > is there any tutorial to learn it.
> >
> > I want to run a webserver(using catalina)+mail
> > server(using James) in a single JVM process. if i
> can
> > embed any one inside another software that's
> enough to
> > me. or atleast i like to run both in a single
> > process(i think its a single JVM process).
> >
> > Once again thanks to Andrei Ivanov,Paul
> Hammant,Simon
> > Klaiber
> >
> > with warm regards & thanks
> > Mohan
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
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RE: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
I'm not clear why you would want to do this.. compared with running them
seperately on the same machine
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohan narayanaswamy [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 04 June 2002 11:39
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> hi everybody,
> I never thought that i get this reply within this
> much of short period. Thankyou everybody.
>
> Actually i want to build a custom network software
> (webserver+mail server 100% java) so that it will be
> helpful to lot of small & medium type of
> organisations. The problem is "am new to java &
> james". i dont know the bootstrap
> architecture(process) of james and tomcat(CATALINA).
> is there any tutorial to learn it.
>
> I want to run a webserver(using catalina)+mail
> server(using James) in a single JVM process. if i can
> embed any one inside another software that's enough to
> me. or atleast i like to run both in a single
> process(i think its a single JVM process).
>
> Once again thanks to Andrei Ivanov,Paul Hammant,Simon
> Klaiber
>
> with warm regards & thanks
> Mohan
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Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by mohan narayanaswamy <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>.
hi everybody,
I never thought that i get this reply within this
much of short period. Thankyou everybody.
Actually i want to build a custom network software
(webserver+mail server 100% java) so that it will be
helpful to lot of small & medium type of
organisations. The problem is "am new to java &
james". i dont know the bootstrap
architecture(process) of james and tomcat(CATALINA).
is there any tutorial to learn it.
I want to run a webserver(using catalina)+mail
server(using James) in a single JVM process. if i can
embed any one inside another software that's enough to
me. or atleast i like to run both in a single
process(i think its a single JVM process).
Once again thanks to Andrei Ivanov,Paul Hammant,Simon
Klaiber
with warm regards & thanks
Mohan
--- Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi> wrote: > I shall
read subjects more carefully :-) If you need
> some limited servlet
> functionality, you can create yourself this on the
> top of Phoenix using
> Catalina sources. It is about 5 hours of thorough
> copy-paste job :-)
>
> Andrei
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrei Ivanov" <my...@surfeu.fi>
> To: "James Developers List"
> <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> > Do you mean same JVM?
> > Andrei
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:38 AM
> > Subject: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
> >
> >
> > > hi everybody,
> > > is here anybody know how to configure
> tomcat+james to
> > > run in a single process. suggestions are all
> welcome.
> > >
> > > warm regards
> > > Mohan DB2
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > >
> > > --
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> >
> >
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Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi>.
I shall read subjects more carefully :-) If you need some limited servlet
functionality, you can create yourself this on the top of Phoenix using
Catalina sources. It is about 5 hours of thorough copy-paste job :-)
Andrei
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrei Ivanov" <my...@surfeu.fi>
To: "James Developers List" <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
> Do you mean same JVM?
> Andrei
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:38 AM
> Subject: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> > hi everybody,
> > is here anybody know how to configure tomcat+james to
> > run in a single process. suggestions are all welcome.
> >
> > warm regards
> > Mohan DB2
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
>
>
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Andrei Ivanov <my...@surfeu.fi>.
Do you mean same JVM?
Andrei
----- Original Message -----
From: "mohan narayanaswamy" <mo...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ja...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:38 AM
Subject: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
> hi everybody,
> is here anybody know how to configure tomcat+james to
> run in a single process. suggestions are all welcome.
>
> warm regards
> Mohan DB2
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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AW: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
Posted by Simon Klaiber <si...@klaiber.com>.
You have to start tomcat out of James.
There is a startupclass in Tomcat you have to start. (I don't know the name
of the class anymore.)
Bye Simon
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: mohan narayanaswamy [mailto:mohandb2@yahoo.co.uk]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Juni 2002 10:38
> An: james-dev@jakarta.apache.org
> Betreff: Tomcat + James in a single jvm process
>
>
> hi everybody,
> is here anybody know how to configure tomcat+james to
> run in a single process. suggestions are all welcome.
>
> warm regards
> Mohan DB2
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
>
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