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Posted to dev@roller.apache.org by Jeffrey Blattman <je...@gmail.com> on 2008/06/12 18:38:26 UTC
unzip and run
would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
container's autodeploy folder.
thoughts?
Re: unzip and run
Posted by Jeffrey Blattman <je...@gmail.com>.
to be clear, i was not suggesting removing the roller only binary
dist. just adding another unzip-and-run option to the downloads.
On Jun 12, 2008, at 5:22 PM, Java Web Development wrote:
> That seems like a good idea but I have some concerns. Primarily
> because the
> roller-webapp.war file is already 25M (mostly because of the 3rd
> party jars)
> and adding the server on top of that might turn some people off.
>
> I feel there are three main types of users to target. Those that
> want to
> simply use roller for a blog, those that want to setup a blog site
> and those
> that want to extend roller.
>
> For those that want to evaluate it for use the simplest thing would
> be to
> point them to jroller and have them create a free account.
>
> For those that want to view the maintenance side of things maybe
> apache can
> host a demo site so people can play around with configuring
> weblogger and
> planet. Then every night clean the slate.
>
> For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to
> split up
> roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can
> easily be
> integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a
> couple of
> years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
>
> * A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
> * A Java Library Project for classes common to
> both weblogger and planet
> * A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
> 3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
> is dependant on the common Java Library Project
> * A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
> depends on the library project as well.
>
> Since both Sun and IBM use roller maybe they can get their IDE
> people to
> help do this? I started out developing java in notepad and vi and
> other text
> editors but ever since NB 5 I can't see going back. When I need to
> I can
> still run the nb ant scripts from the command line.
>
> In the case of the problem I was having, I googled for over an hour
> trying
> to understand Roller's architecture to see what classes process the
> request
> before it gets to CommentServlet and came up empty. After figuring
> out how
> to properly attach the debugger it took a minute to find out that
> WeblogRequestMapper was where I was hitting a problem.
>
> NetBeans does a superb job at giving developers a single install
> that gets
> them up and running developing webapps quickly. Rather than trying to
> replicate that just for roller, integrate roller better in Netbeans
> (and
> Eclipse) for those that want to make enhancements.
>
> I'm not sure what Roller offers that Word Press doesn't, but I can
> think of
> a lot of stuff in WordPress that would make me favor it over
> Roller. The big
> draw for me is that it's written in Java and I'm looking into
> starting a
> project that includes blogs that will be written in Java/JSP. I
> think that
> most people that choose Roller for the same reasons and the easier
> it is to
> get started developing Roller the better.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Blattman [mailto:jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:38 PM
> To: dev@roller.apache.org
> Subject: unzip and run
>
> would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
> run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
> things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
>
> i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
> the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
> bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
> container's autodeploy folder.
>
> thoughts?
>
>
RE: unzip and run
Posted by Java Web Development <ja...@verizon.net>.
> Do you really care about disk space? With terabyte hard drives only being a
> few hundred bucks, what's a hundred MBs? I'm sure we could use JarJar to
> create a single JAR that's 10 MB, but I think there's bigger fish to fry. I
> agree it's rather large, but I have 1 GB of space for $20/month, so it
> doesn't bother me. If it really bothers you, the best way to get it fixes is
> to come up with a proposal for fixing and implement it. I'm sure we'd be
> happy to accept your contribution.
I think I wasn't clear. The disk space isn't the issue, it's the 95M of memory extra in tomcat that roller is using. Like I said, it might be that I need to trim down the cache to reflect the size of this particular site. But from what I understand and have seen, the libraries you include in your web app increase the amount of memory tomcat uses. Most hosting companies don't care how much bandwidth or diskspace you use because in most cases users only dream of even using 1/4 of their allowed bandwidth. Memory and CPU is what causes them headaches. Now with virtualization technologies becoming more popular it gives them the opportunity to regulate it. This is why it's harder to find good affordable java hosting vs php hosting.
I got gigs worth of memory to play with but it bugs me to see other people choosing something written in another technology over java when the java implementation is better. Just because some person decided to include a big jar file, only to use one class they could have written themselves in a dozen lines.
With a blog, the more smaller individual users using it, the better for everyone.
RE: unzip and run
Posted by Java Web Development <ja...@verizon.net>.
> Maven builds would be my preference. I could then generate Eclipse artifacts
> - the world doesn't revolve around Netbeans. Also, I think it would help
> distinguish the separation of the projects (JARs).
>
> -Nathan
I said there should be better IDE integration in general. I only singled out NetBeans in the examples because that's what I use the most. If Roller moves to Maven instead of ant then I hope that goals can be set up to easily deploy, debug and profile using the IDE's Maven plugin.
Maven might actually be better suited to separate the different components but I thought that recommending a few changes to the existing build system would be more reasonable in the short term.
Re: unzip and run
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Matt Raible <ma...@raibledesigns.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Java Web Development <
> javawebdev@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Matt,
> >
> > Security is one of the reason I prefer java over php. And believe it or
> not
> > performance too. I use my own web framework and I get really good
> > performance. Add in the fact that I can offload some work onto threads
> and
> > the user experience gets even better. I think you can add threads in php
> now
> > since php5 but I don't really like php. The php libraries also feel like
> an
> > inconsistent mess compared to java libraries.
> >
> > I didn't mean to come off so negative. I like Roller and I chose it
> because
> > I feel it's the best java blog software out there and I did look at a
> few.
> > My hope is that the roller community can grow even more, especially now
> that
> > it's an apache project. With a larger community it can get even better.
> Two
> > things I think Roller needs are better integration with popular IDE's and
> > more themes.
> >
> > With Sun's support of Roller I'm really surprised that in the couple of
> > years since I first looked at Roller, the ant scripts haven't been
> modified
> > to be more NetBeans friendly. I can probably brush up my ant skills and
> > hobble together some changes but I imagine someone on the NetBeans could
> > make the changes and Roumen Strobl could put up a screencast while I'm
> still
> > scratching my head.
> >
> > I'd much rather focus my efforts on some of the features I'm better
> capable
> > of handling. Some of the things I plan on doing for a project that might
> be
> > of benefit to others are the threaded comments I'm almost done with, the
> > ability to install themes from the admin interface, hopefully a utility
> that
> > can convert other public themes if possible. I wrote a dictionary based
> > captcha servlet that supports internationalization that is configurable
> and
> > pretty lightweight that I'd like to add as an option for a comment
> > authenticator. There was an open source java one I found but from what I
> > remember it was a pig and seemed to have a memory leak.
> >
> > I think people are working on OpenID integration but it would be nice if
> > Roller was like blogger.com where you could choose how you are
> identified.
> > Account management for users that only comment would be good to have and
> it
> > looks like the current work done in user permissions should help enable
> > that. One big thing I don't like, if I'm logged in as the blog owner, why
> do
> > I have to enter info to place a comment. Roller should know me and themes
> > can choose to highlight my comments. More importantly it shouldn't allow
> > someone to try and impersonate me. Depending on what happens with that
> > project I might have to implement some of these myself and don't mind
> giving
> > back the code.
> >
>
> Thanks for the great feedback and enthusiasm about Roller. I agree that it
> should have better IDE integration. I believe a Maven build would provide
> that (not eliminating Ant, just adding pom.xml files), but others don't
> feel
> the same. I don't contribute to the project much, so I don't get too caught
> up in how the build system works.
>
Maven builds would be my preference. I could then generate Eclipse artifacts
- the world doesn't revolve around Netbeans. Also, I think it would help
distinguish the separation of the projects (JARs).
-Nathan
>
>
> >
> > My one biggest gripe with roller now is it's memory footprint. I have one
> > blog running without planet and the RSS for my tomcat instance went from
> 45M
> > with just my app on it to 140M after I deployed roller-weblogger.war.
> >
> > I don't know how much has to do with caching that I need to configure for
> a
> > small, single blog site but there seem to be an awful lot of jars. Are
> all
> > three spring, struts and guice really necessary? Why both freemaker and
> > velocity? There are 18M worth of jars.
> >
> >
> Do you really care about disk space? With terabyte hard drives only being a
> few hundred bucks, what's a hundred MBs? I'm sure we could use JarJar to
> create a single JAR that's 10 MB, but I think there's bigger fish to fry. I
> agree it's rather large, but I have 1 GB of space for $20/month, so it
> doesn't bother me. If it really bothers you, the best way to get it fixes
> is
> to come up with a proposal for fixing and implement it. I'm sure we'd be
> happy to accept your contribution.
>
> Again, thanks for the good feedback.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Matt
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Raible [mailto:mraible@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:42 PM
> > To: dev@roller.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: unzip and run
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Java Web Development
> > <ja...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > That seems like a good idea but I have some concerns. Primarily because
> > the
> > > roller-webapp.war file is already 25M (mostly because of the 3rd party
> > jars)
> > > and adding the server on top of that might turn some people off.
> > >
> > > I feel there are three main types of users to target. Those that want
> to
> > > simply use roller for a blog, those that want to setup a blog site and
> > those
> > > that want to extend roller.
> > >
> > > For those that want to evaluate it for use the simplest thing would be
> to
> > > point them to jroller and have them create a free account.
> > >
> > > For those that want to view the maintenance side of things maybe apache
> > can
> > > host a demo site so people can play around with configuring weblogger
> and
> > > planet. Then every night clean the slate.
> > >
> > > For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to split
> up
> > > roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can
> easily
> > be
> > > integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a
> couple
> > of
> > > years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
> > >
> > > * A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
> > > * A Java Library Project for classes common to
> > > both weblogger and planet
> > > * A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
> > > 3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
> > > is dependant on the common Java Library Project
> > > * A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
> > > depends on the library project as well.
> > >
> > > Since both Sun and IBM use roller maybe they can get their IDE people
> to
> > > help do this? I started out developing java in notepad and vi and other
> > text
> > > editors but ever since NB 5 I can't see going back. When I need to I
> can
> > > still run the nb ant scripts from the command line.
> > >
> > > In the case of the problem I was having, I googled for over an hour
> > trying
> > > to understand Roller's architecture to see what classes process the
> > request
> > > before it gets to CommentServlet and came up empty. After figuring out
> > how
> > > to properly attach the debugger it took a minute to find out that
> > > WeblogRequestMapper was where I was hitting a problem.
> > >
> > > NetBeans does a superb job at giving developers a single install that
> > gets
> > > them up and running developing webapps quickly. Rather than trying to
> > > replicate that just for roller, integrate roller better in Netbeans
> (and
> > > Eclipse) for those that want to make enhancements.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what Roller offers that Word Press doesn't, but I can
> think
> > of
> > > a lot of stuff in WordPress that would make me favor it over Roller.
> The
> > big
> > > draw for me is that it's written in Java and I'm looking into starting
> a
> > > project that includes blogs that will be written in Java/JSP. I think
> > that
> > > most people that choose Roller for the same reasons and the easier it
> is
> > to
> > > get started developing Roller the better.
> >
> > The good news is Roller offers something that WordPress doesn't: Security
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/11/my-blog-was-hacked-is-yours-next-huge-wordpress-security-issues/
> >
> > ;0)
> >
> > Matt
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jeffrey Blattman [mailto:jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:38 PM
> > > To: dev@roller.apache.org
> > > Subject: unzip and run
> > >
> > > would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
> > > run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
> > > things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
> > >
> > > i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
> > > the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
> > > bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
> > > container's autodeploy folder.
> > >
> > > thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://raibledesigns.com
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: unzip and run
Posted by Matt Raible <ma...@raibledesigns.com>.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Java Web Development <
javawebdev@verizon.net> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> Security is one of the reason I prefer java over php. And believe it or not
> performance too. I use my own web framework and I get really good
> performance. Add in the fact that I can offload some work onto threads and
> the user experience gets even better. I think you can add threads in php now
> since php5 but I don't really like php. The php libraries also feel like an
> inconsistent mess compared to java libraries.
>
> I didn't mean to come off so negative. I like Roller and I chose it because
> I feel it's the best java blog software out there and I did look at a few.
> My hope is that the roller community can grow even more, especially now that
> it's an apache project. With a larger community it can get even better. Two
> things I think Roller needs are better integration with popular IDE's and
> more themes.
>
> With Sun's support of Roller I'm really surprised that in the couple of
> years since I first looked at Roller, the ant scripts haven't been modified
> to be more NetBeans friendly. I can probably brush up my ant skills and
> hobble together some changes but I imagine someone on the NetBeans could
> make the changes and Roumen Strobl could put up a screencast while I'm still
> scratching my head.
>
> I'd much rather focus my efforts on some of the features I'm better capable
> of handling. Some of the things I plan on doing for a project that might be
> of benefit to others are the threaded comments I'm almost done with, the
> ability to install themes from the admin interface, hopefully a utility that
> can convert other public themes if possible. I wrote a dictionary based
> captcha servlet that supports internationalization that is configurable and
> pretty lightweight that I'd like to add as an option for a comment
> authenticator. There was an open source java one I found but from what I
> remember it was a pig and seemed to have a memory leak.
>
> I think people are working on OpenID integration but it would be nice if
> Roller was like blogger.com where you could choose how you are identified.
> Account management for users that only comment would be good to have and it
> looks like the current work done in user permissions should help enable
> that. One big thing I don't like, if I'm logged in as the blog owner, why do
> I have to enter info to place a comment. Roller should know me and themes
> can choose to highlight my comments. More importantly it shouldn't allow
> someone to try and impersonate me. Depending on what happens with that
> project I might have to implement some of these myself and don't mind giving
> back the code.
>
Thanks for the great feedback and enthusiasm about Roller. I agree that it
should have better IDE integration. I believe a Maven build would provide
that (not eliminating Ant, just adding pom.xml files), but others don't feel
the same. I don't contribute to the project much, so I don't get too caught
up in how the build system works.
>
> My one biggest gripe with roller now is it's memory footprint. I have one
> blog running without planet and the RSS for my tomcat instance went from 45M
> with just my app on it to 140M after I deployed roller-weblogger.war.
>
> I don't know how much has to do with caching that I need to configure for a
> small, single blog site but there seem to be an awful lot of jars. Are all
> three spring, struts and guice really necessary? Why both freemaker and
> velocity? There are 18M worth of jars.
>
>
Do you really care about disk space? With terabyte hard drives only being a
few hundred bucks, what's a hundred MBs? I'm sure we could use JarJar to
create a single JAR that's 10 MB, but I think there's bigger fish to fry. I
agree it's rather large, but I have 1 GB of space for $20/month, so it
doesn't bother me. If it really bothers you, the best way to get it fixes is
to come up with a proposal for fixing and implement it. I'm sure we'd be
happy to accept your contribution.
Again, thanks for the good feedback.
Cheers,
Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Raible [mailto:mraible@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:42 PM
> To: dev@roller.apache.org
> Subject: Re: unzip and run
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Java Web Development
> <ja...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > That seems like a good idea but I have some concerns. Primarily because
> the
> > roller-webapp.war file is already 25M (mostly because of the 3rd party
> jars)
> > and adding the server on top of that might turn some people off.
> >
> > I feel there are three main types of users to target. Those that want to
> > simply use roller for a blog, those that want to setup a blog site and
> those
> > that want to extend roller.
> >
> > For those that want to evaluate it for use the simplest thing would be to
> > point them to jroller and have them create a free account.
> >
> > For those that want to view the maintenance side of things maybe apache
> can
> > host a demo site so people can play around with configuring weblogger and
> > planet. Then every night clean the slate.
> >
> > For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to split up
> > roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can easily
> be
> > integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a couple
> of
> > years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
> >
> > * A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
> > * A Java Library Project for classes common to
> > both weblogger and planet
> > * A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
> > 3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
> > is dependant on the common Java Library Project
> > * A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
> > depends on the library project as well.
> >
> > Since both Sun and IBM use roller maybe they can get their IDE people to
> > help do this? I started out developing java in notepad and vi and other
> text
> > editors but ever since NB 5 I can't see going back. When I need to I can
> > still run the nb ant scripts from the command line.
> >
> > In the case of the problem I was having, I googled for over an hour
> trying
> > to understand Roller's architecture to see what classes process the
> request
> > before it gets to CommentServlet and came up empty. After figuring out
> how
> > to properly attach the debugger it took a minute to find out that
> > WeblogRequestMapper was where I was hitting a problem.
> >
> > NetBeans does a superb job at giving developers a single install that
> gets
> > them up and running developing webapps quickly. Rather than trying to
> > replicate that just for roller, integrate roller better in Netbeans (and
> > Eclipse) for those that want to make enhancements.
> >
> > I'm not sure what Roller offers that Word Press doesn't, but I can think
> of
> > a lot of stuff in WordPress that would make me favor it over Roller. The
> big
> > draw for me is that it's written in Java and I'm looking into starting a
> > project that includes blogs that will be written in Java/JSP. I think
> that
> > most people that choose Roller for the same reasons and the easier it is
> to
> > get started developing Roller the better.
>
> The good news is Roller offers something that WordPress doesn't: Security
>
>
> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/11/my-blog-was-hacked-is-yours-next-huge-wordpress-security-issues/
>
> ;0)
>
> Matt
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeffrey Blattman [mailto:jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:38 PM
> > To: dev@roller.apache.org
> > Subject: unzip and run
> >
> > would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
> > run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
> > things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
> >
> > i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
> > the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
> > bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
> > container's autodeploy folder.
> >
> > thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://raibledesigns.com
>
>
>
RE: unzip and run
Posted by Nick Lothian <nl...@educationau.edu.au>.
[snip]
>
> For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to split up
> roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can easily be
> integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a couple of
> years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
>
> * A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
> * A Java Library Project for classes common to
> both weblogger and planet
> * A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
> 3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
> is dependant on the common Java Library Project
> * A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
> depends on the library project as well.
>
+1
Or some kind of improved (more standard) project layout anyway (Maven 2 projects would be fine)
We have a lot of problems setting up roller for debugging with new developers.
[snip]
> The good news is Roller offers something that WordPress doesn't: Security
>
> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/11/my-blog-was-hacked-is-yours-next-huge-wordpress-security-issues/
>
> ;0)
I think this confidence is misplaced. We've only being doing an integration project with Roller (so we've deliberately tried to stay out of the roller source code), and we have found enough security problems for us to be concerned. We haven't been looking for problems, nor have we conducted anything like a code audit.
I hate just being a critic, so I've created https://issues.apache.org/roller/browse/ROL-1727 with an attachments that include what we are doing for cross-site-scripting protection. See http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/roller-dev/200804.mbox/%3CC61BBB9C527C5A49A8C9069ABC4B005F2805D83F@eduau-mail.eduau.local%3E and http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/roller-dev/200805.mbox/%3CC61BBB9C527C5A49A8C9069ABC4B005F280DF57B@eduau-mail.eduau.local%3E for some background on this.
Nick
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RE: unzip and run
Posted by Java Web Development <ja...@verizon.net>.
Matt,
Security is one of the reason I prefer java over php. And believe it or not performance too. I use my own web framework and I get really good performance. Add in the fact that I can offload some work onto threads and the user experience gets even better. I think you can add threads in php now since php5 but I don't really like php. The php libraries also feel like an inconsistent mess compared to java libraries.
I didn't mean to come off so negative. I like Roller and I chose it because I feel it's the best java blog software out there and I did look at a few. My hope is that the roller community can grow even more, especially now that it's an apache project. With a larger community it can get even better. Two things I think Roller needs are better integration with popular IDE's and more themes.
With Sun's support of Roller I'm really surprised that in the couple of years since I first looked at Roller, the ant scripts haven't been modified to be more NetBeans friendly. I can probably brush up my ant skills and hobble together some changes but I imagine someone on the NetBeans could make the changes and Roumen Strobl could put up a screencast while I'm still scratching my head.
I'd much rather focus my efforts on some of the features I'm better capable of handling. Some of the things I plan on doing for a project that might be of benefit to others are the threaded comments I'm almost done with, the ability to install themes from the admin interface, hopefully a utility that can convert other public themes if possible. I wrote a dictionary based captcha servlet that supports internationalization that is configurable and pretty lightweight that I'd like to add as an option for a comment authenticator. There was an open source java one I found but from what I remember it was a pig and seemed to have a memory leak.
I think people are working on OpenID integration but it would be nice if Roller was like blogger.com where you could choose how you are identified. Account management for users that only comment would be good to have and it looks like the current work done in user permissions should help enable that. One big thing I don't like, if I'm logged in as the blog owner, why do I have to enter info to place a comment. Roller should know me and themes can choose to highlight my comments. More importantly it shouldn't allow someone to try and impersonate me. Depending on what happens with that project I might have to implement some of these myself and don't mind giving back the code.
My one biggest gripe with roller now is it's memory footprint. I have one blog running without planet and the RSS for my tomcat instance went from 45M with just my app on it to 140M after I deployed roller-weblogger.war.
I don't know how much has to do with caching that I need to configure for a small, single blog site but there seem to be an awful lot of jars. Are all three spring, struts and guice really necessary? Why both freemaker and velocity? There are 18M worth of jars.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Raible [mailto:mraible@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:42 PM
To: dev@roller.apache.org
Subject: Re: unzip and run
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Java Web Development
<ja...@verizon.net> wrote:
> That seems like a good idea but I have some concerns. Primarily because the
> roller-webapp.war file is already 25M (mostly because of the 3rd party jars)
> and adding the server on top of that might turn some people off.
>
> I feel there are three main types of users to target. Those that want to
> simply use roller for a blog, those that want to setup a blog site and those
> that want to extend roller.
>
> For those that want to evaluate it for use the simplest thing would be to
> point them to jroller and have them create a free account.
>
> For those that want to view the maintenance side of things maybe apache can
> host a demo site so people can play around with configuring weblogger and
> planet. Then every night clean the slate.
>
> For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to split up
> roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can easily be
> integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a couple of
> years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
>
> * A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
> * A Java Library Project for classes common to
> both weblogger and planet
> * A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
> 3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
> is dependant on the common Java Library Project
> * A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
> depends on the library project as well.
>
> Since both Sun and IBM use roller maybe they can get their IDE people to
> help do this? I started out developing java in notepad and vi and other text
> editors but ever since NB 5 I can't see going back. When I need to I can
> still run the nb ant scripts from the command line.
>
> In the case of the problem I was having, I googled for over an hour trying
> to understand Roller's architecture to see what classes process the request
> before it gets to CommentServlet and came up empty. After figuring out how
> to properly attach the debugger it took a minute to find out that
> WeblogRequestMapper was where I was hitting a problem.
>
> NetBeans does a superb job at giving developers a single install that gets
> them up and running developing webapps quickly. Rather than trying to
> replicate that just for roller, integrate roller better in Netbeans (and
> Eclipse) for those that want to make enhancements.
>
> I'm not sure what Roller offers that Word Press doesn't, but I can think of
> a lot of stuff in WordPress that would make me favor it over Roller. The big
> draw for me is that it's written in Java and I'm looking into starting a
> project that includes blogs that will be written in Java/JSP. I think that
> most people that choose Roller for the same reasons and the easier it is to
> get started developing Roller the better.
The good news is Roller offers something that WordPress doesn't: Security
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/11/my-blog-was-hacked-is-yours-next-huge-wordpress-security-issues/
;0)
Matt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Blattman [mailto:jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:38 PM
> To: dev@roller.apache.org
> Subject: unzip and run
>
> would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
> run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
> things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
>
> i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
> the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
> bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
> container's autodeploy folder.
>
> thoughts?
>
>
>
--
http://raibledesigns.com
Re: unzip and run
Posted by Matt Raible <mr...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Java Web Development
<ja...@verizon.net> wrote:
> That seems like a good idea but I have some concerns. Primarily because the
> roller-webapp.war file is already 25M (mostly because of the 3rd party jars)
> and adding the server on top of that might turn some people off.
>
> I feel there are three main types of users to target. Those that want to
> simply use roller for a blog, those that want to setup a blog site and those
> that want to extend roller.
>
> For those that want to evaluate it for use the simplest thing would be to
> point them to jroller and have them create a free account.
>
> For those that want to view the maintenance side of things maybe apache can
> host a demo site so people can play around with configuring weblogger and
> planet. Then every night clean the slate.
>
> For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to split up
> roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can easily be
> integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a couple of
> years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
>
> * A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
> * A Java Library Project for classes common to
> both weblogger and planet
> * A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
> 3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
> is dependant on the common Java Library Project
> * A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
> depends on the library project as well.
>
> Since both Sun and IBM use roller maybe they can get their IDE people to
> help do this? I started out developing java in notepad and vi and other text
> editors but ever since NB 5 I can't see going back. When I need to I can
> still run the nb ant scripts from the command line.
>
> In the case of the problem I was having, I googled for over an hour trying
> to understand Roller's architecture to see what classes process the request
> before it gets to CommentServlet and came up empty. After figuring out how
> to properly attach the debugger it took a minute to find out that
> WeblogRequestMapper was where I was hitting a problem.
>
> NetBeans does a superb job at giving developers a single install that gets
> them up and running developing webapps quickly. Rather than trying to
> replicate that just for roller, integrate roller better in Netbeans (and
> Eclipse) for those that want to make enhancements.
>
> I'm not sure what Roller offers that Word Press doesn't, but I can think of
> a lot of stuff in WordPress that would make me favor it over Roller. The big
> draw for me is that it's written in Java and I'm looking into starting a
> project that includes blogs that will be written in Java/JSP. I think that
> most people that choose Roller for the same reasons and the easier it is to
> get started developing Roller the better.
The good news is Roller offers something that WordPress doesn't: Security
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/11/my-blog-was-hacked-is-yours-next-huge-wordpress-security-issues/
;0)
Matt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Blattman [mailto:jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:38 PM
> To: dev@roller.apache.org
> Subject: unzip and run
>
> would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
> run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
> things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
>
> i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
> the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
> bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
> container's autodeploy folder.
>
> thoughts?
>
>
>
--
http://raibledesigns.com
RE: unzip and run
Posted by Java Web Development <ja...@verizon.net>.
That seems like a good idea but I have some concerns. Primarily because the
roller-webapp.war file is already 25M (mostly because of the 3rd party jars)
and adding the server on top of that might turn some people off.
I feel there are three main types of users to target. Those that want to
simply use roller for a blog, those that want to setup a blog site and those
that want to extend roller.
For those that want to evaluate it for use the simplest thing would be to
point them to jroller and have them create a free account.
For those that want to view the maintenance side of things maybe apache can
host a demo site so people can play around with configuring weblogger and
planet. Then every night clean the slate.
For those that want to extend roller I think it would be nice to split up
roller up into 3 projects and a 3rd party library folder that can easily be
integrated into Netbeans and Eclipse. I haven't used Eclipse for a couple of
years so I'll give the Netbeans example.
* A lib directory for all the 3rd party jars
* A Java Library Project for classes common to
both weblogger and planet
* A Web Project for weblogger that pulls in the
3rd party jars it needs from the lib folder and
is dependant on the common Java Library Project
* A Web Project for planet that pulls in jars and
depends on the library project as well.
Since both Sun and IBM use roller maybe they can get their IDE people to
help do this? I started out developing java in notepad and vi and other text
editors but ever since NB 5 I can't see going back. When I need to I can
still run the nb ant scripts from the command line.
In the case of the problem I was having, I googled for over an hour trying
to understand Roller's architecture to see what classes process the request
before it gets to CommentServlet and came up empty. After figuring out how
to properly attach the debugger it took a minute to find out that
WeblogRequestMapper was where I was hitting a problem.
NetBeans does a superb job at giving developers a single install that gets
them up and running developing webapps quickly. Rather than trying to
replicate that just for roller, integrate roller better in Netbeans (and
Eclipse) for those that want to make enhancements.
I'm not sure what Roller offers that Word Press doesn't, but I can think of
a lot of stuff in WordPress that would make me favor it over Roller. The big
draw for me is that it's written in Java and I'm looking into starting a
project that includes blogs that will be written in Java/JSP. I think that
most people that choose Roller for the same reasons and the easier it is to
get started developing Roller the better.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Blattman [mailto:jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:38 PM
To: dev@roller.apache.org
Subject: unzip and run
would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and
run bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way
things are going ... for eval purposes anyway.
i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from
the 5-min install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by
bundling roller and the web container, w/ roller.war in the
container's autodeploy folder.
thoughts?
Re: unzip and run
Posted by Dave <sn...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Jeffrey Blattman
<je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> would it make sense to have a roller+[tomcat|glassfish|...] unzip and run
> bundle available on the download site? this seems to be the way things are
> going ... for eval purposes anyway.
>
> i was able to create a roller deploy-and-go WAR pretty easily from the 5-min
> install. then we could of course create a unzip and run by bundling roller
> and the web container, w/ roller.war in the container's autodeploy folder.
I think it makes perfect sense to make Roller + app server + database
bundles available for our official ASF releases.
I've done this in the past, see the Blogapps Server (Roller, JSPWiki,
Derby, Tomcat) and it makes it really easy to try Roller.
Glassfish is under CDDL, so we are allowed to distribute it with
Roller and not violate ASF policy.
- Dave