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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> on 2011/06/28 14:14:34 UTC
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark
On 6/27/2011 9:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru<as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>> Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
>> branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
>> privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is set
>> by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
>> implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>>
>> Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point once
>> this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
>> folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
>> things that need to be on the project website.
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs
>>
>> So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification is
>> made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note that
>> we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF will
>> need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
>> certifications in the future.
>>
>> Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
>> trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
>> Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet. 8-)
>>
>
> OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
> further discuss Ian's request?
Of course! I'll also include the list of all the registrations (and
applications; the applications were not completed in all the countries
it was applied for)), and I'll also ask for a PPMC volunteer to help
tracking down the renewal details for various countries.
In terms of policies for certifications, we need to ensure that:
- The ASF as an entity does not take on risk. We are a public charity
with a mission to produce software for the public good. We're happy to
have third parties take our code and use it for any purposes (as spelled
out in the license), as long as third parties respect our brands.
- Apache marks need to be respected. Thus any certification programs
that use our marks/logos need to have a clear distinction between the
third party's certification program and our marks.
- The ASF does not serve as a certification or standards body. Thus we
need to be clear that it's the third party providing the "certification"
of any results, not the ASF.
I don't think any of these are difficult, nor should they be a surprise
to people like Ian; we just need to ensure we clearly specify what the
ASF's policy is on this first.
- Shane
>
> -Rob
>
>> - Shane
>>
>> On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>
>>> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
>>> trademark's mailing list.
>>>
>>> The relevant policy can be found here:
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>>>
>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>>>>>
>>>>> manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person has more
>>>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there even
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> more neutral word?
>>>>>
>>>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>>>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
>>>> good
>>>> reason not too :-)
>>>>
>>>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo community
>>>> for
>>>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
>>>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
>>>> 1500
>>>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to use
>>>> the
>>>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
>>>> now,
>>>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
>>>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
>>>> awarding
>>>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for funding
>>>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
>>>> the
>>>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff freely.
>>>>
>>>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to set
>>>> up
>>>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
>>>> over
>>>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
>>>> that
>>>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>>>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential government
>>>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use FOSS
>>>> for
>>>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>>>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>>>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
>>>> certificate
>>>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>>>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the same
>>>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
>>>> Gimp,
>>>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
>>>> there
>>>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
>>>> on
>>>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>>>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>>>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
>>>> dynamic
>>>> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT is
>>>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>>>
>>>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and endorsed
>>>> by
>>>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our qualifications
>>>> are
>>>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
>>>> Transfer
>>>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the community
>>>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My background
>>>> is
>>>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
>>>> National
>>>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>>>
>>>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and general
>>>> community support.
>>>>
>>>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>>>> questions.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>>>
>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>
>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>> Wales.
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
Shane, I'll be happy to assist on 'tracking down the renewal details for
various countries', as you say.
/don
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> On 6/27/2011 9:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru<as...@shanecurcuru.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
>>> branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
>>> privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is
>>> set
>>> by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
>>> implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>>>
>>> Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point
>>> once
>>> this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
>>> folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
>>> things that need to be on the project website.
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/**foundation/marks/pmcs<http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs>
>>>
>>> So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification
>>> is
>>> made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note
>>> that
>>> we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF
>>> will
>>> need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
>>> certifications in the future.
>>>
>>> Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
>>> trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
>>> Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet.
>>> 8-)
>>>
>>>
>> OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
>> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
>> further discuss Ian's request?
>>
>
> Of course! I'll also include the list of all the registrations (and
> applications; the applications were not completed in all the countries it
> was applied for)), and I'll also ask for a PPMC volunteer to help tracking
> down the renewal details for various countries.
>
> In terms of policies for certifications, we need to ensure that:
>
> - The ASF as an entity does not take on risk. We are a public charity with
> a mission to produce software for the public good. We're happy to have
> third parties take our code and use it for any purposes (as spelled out in
> the license), as long as third parties respect our brands.
>
> - Apache marks need to be respected. Thus any certification programs that
> use our marks/logos need to have a clear distinction between the third
> party's certification program and our marks.
>
> - The ASF does not serve as a certification or standards body. Thus we
> need to be clear that it's the third party providing the "certification" of
> any results, not the ASF.
>
> I don't think any of these are difficult, nor should they be a surprise to
> people like Ian; we just need to ensure we clearly specify what the ASF's
> policy is on this first.
>
> - Shane
>
>
>> -Rob
>>
>> - Shane
>>>
>>> On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
>>>> trademark's mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> The relevant policy can be found here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.apache.org/**foundation/marks/<http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/>
>>>>
>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<ia...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person has
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> more neutral word?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>>>>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>>>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
>>>>> good
>>>>> reason not too :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo
>>>>> community
>>>>> for
>>>>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
>>>>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
>>>>> 1500
>>>>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to
>>>>> use
>>>>> the
>>>>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
>>>>> now,
>>>>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
>>>>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
>>>>> awarding
>>>>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for
>>>>> funding
>>>>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
>>>>> the
>>>>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff
>>>>> freely.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to
>>>>> set
>>>>> up
>>>>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
>>>>> over
>>>>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
>>>>> that
>>>>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>>>>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential
>>>>> government
>>>>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use
>>>>> FOSS
>>>>> for
>>>>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>>>>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>>>>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
>>>>> certificate
>>>>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>>>>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the
>>>>> same
>>>>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
>>>>> Gimp,
>>>>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
>>>>> there
>>>>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
>>>>> on
>>>>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>>>>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>>>>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
>>>>> dynamic
>>>>> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT
>>>>> is
>>>>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and
>>>>> endorsed
>>>>> by
>>>>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our
>>>>> qualifications
>>>>> are
>>>>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
>>>>> Transfer
>>>>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the
>>>>> community
>>>>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My
>>>>> background
>>>>> is
>>>>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
>>>>> National
>>>>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and
>>>>> general
>>>>> community support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>>>>
>>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>>
>>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>>> Wales.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>