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Posted to general@xml.apache.org by Henning von Bargen <H....@Triestram-Partner.de> on 2000/04/20 17:32:42 UTC
AW: Reverse XSL:FO
There's a tool called ps2edit (an extension to ghostscript) that promises
to convert files from PS or PDF to SVG, but I didn't test it.
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Andrzej Dmoch <an...@step.pl>.
Talking with myself :)
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/1958/pstoedit/
Andrzej Dmoch wrote:
> OK. Where can I get it? I've found only version 2.60 which doesn't seem to
> support SVG.
>
> Henning von Bargen wrote:
>
> > There's a tool called ps2edit (an extension to ghostscript) that promises
> > to convert files from PS or PDF to SVG, but I didn't test it.
> > >From SVG, why should you then want to use XSL:FO ?
> > SVG is a XML format in itself and you can use XSL to do whatever you want.
> > Henning
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Andrzej Dmoch <an...@step.pl>.
OK. Where can I get it? I've found only version 2.60 which doesn't seem to
support SVG.
Henning von Bargen wrote:
> There's a tool called ps2edit (an extension to ghostscript) that promises
> to convert files from PS or PDF to SVG, but I didn't test it.
> >From SVG, why should you then want to use XSL:FO ?
> SVG is a XML format in itself and you can use XSL to do whatever you want.
> Henning
>
Re: XML Book to translate
Posted by Alistair Hopkins <al...@berthengron.co.uk>.
I think it's an excellent reference book. Fairly hard to learn from, though.
At 11:07 AM 7/28/00, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm looking for an advise on XML books. I'm about to translate a good
>programmers XML book
>(on o medium level of difficulty). Please, can you indicate your favourite
>books matching my
>criteria?
>
>What do you think about the "XSLT Programmers Reference"? Is it worthy
>translating as the
>book to read just after some introductory one?
>
>AnD
>
>
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Alistair Hopkins
XML Book to translate
Posted by Andrzej Dmoch <an...@step.pl>.
Hi,
I'm looking for an advise on XML books. I'm about to translate a good programmers XML book
(on o medium level of difficulty). Please, can you indicate your favourite books matching my
criteria?
What do you think about the "XSLT Programmers Reference"? Is it worthy translating as the
book to read just after some introductory one?
AnD
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Andrzej Dmoch <an...@step.pl>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Because it would not make sense. The XML publishing model is different
> from PDF even if has many parts in common. For example, the use of
> namespaces allows the integration of other capabilities without messing
> up with the language itself, thing that is not possible with PDF. For
> example, FO + SMIL integration opposed to PDF with video support.
I understand but it sounds a bit like science-fiction right now. We only have one XSL:FO
-> PDF converter which produces PDF with no integration with languages like SMIL. I think
there are no tools for the processing model you presented. But there are a lot of tools
for publishing giants like TeX, PDF, Postscript.
Porting XML to them (which is not directly publishing format) could be very economical
(especially with the use of XSLT as a transforming tool).
Just allowing to add a semantic layer to published documents and reusing all existing
tools.
Andrzej
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Andrzej Dmoch wrote:
>
> > Also, like in any programming language, there are tons of ways to do the
> > same thing... in PDF, this means that there are many ways of writing the
> > same page on the screen with different PDF documents. Some might use
> > text, others may use vectors.
>
> OK. Then XSL:FO is clearly not isomorfic with PDF for me. Isomorfic for me means 1-1
> and on (on means each PDF can be produced).
>
> > Now, even if your PDF is generated from a FO (so it doesn't include any
> > other PDF capabilities), it's not algorithmically certain (read: you
> > need a brain to do that!) to convert it back into FO.
>
> OK. Then you state that it is simply impossible in general case.
Yes.
> > Just like when you do "1 + 1" you get "2" but there are an infinite set
> > of couples which sum is "2", not just one.
>
> Which means there can be a lot of PDF files which give the proper output for the
> XSL:FO source file?
Yes.
> Then why doesn't there exist an XML format isomorfic with PDF files?
Because it would not make sense. The XML publishing model is different
from PDF even if has many parts in common. For example, the use of
namespaces allows the integration of other capabilities without messing
up with the language itself, thing that is not possible with PDF. For
example, FO + SMIL integration opposed to PDF with video support.
> The task of transforming XSL:FO to PDF would have been achieved then using XSLT.
So?
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Andrzej Dmoch <an...@step.pl>.
> Also, like in any programming language, there are tons of ways to do the
> same thing... in PDF, this means that there are many ways of writing the
> same page on the screen with different PDF documents. Some might use
> text, others may use vectors.
OK. Then XSL:FO is clearly not isomorfic with PDF for me. Isomorfic for me means 1-1
and on (on means each PDF can be produced).
> Now, even if your PDF is generated from a FO (so it doesn't include any
> other PDF capabilities), it's not algorithmically certain (read: you
> need a brain to do that!) to convert it back into FO.
OK. Then you state that it is simply impossible in general case.
> Just like when you do "1 + 1" you get "2" but there are an infinite set
> of couples which sum is "2", not just one.
Which means there can be a lot of PDF files which give the proper output for the
XSL:FO source file?
Then why doesn't there exist an XML format isomorfic with PDF files?
The task of transforming XSL:FO to PDF would have been achieved then using XSLT.
Andrzej
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Andrzej Dmoch wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> > Henning von Bargen wrote:
> > >
> > > There's a tool called ps2edit (an extension to ghostscript) that promises
> > > to convert files from PS or PDF to SVG, but I didn't test it.
> > > >From SVG, why should you then want to use XSL:FO ?
> > > SVG is a XML format in itself and you can use XSL to do whatever you want.
> >
> > Like, for example, do neural OCR on the SVG vectors to get FO text using
> > XSLT stylesheets? good luck :)
>
> I know but if the aim is to add some text to PDF files and print it then SVG
> doesn't look bad.
I don't follow you.
> BTW, isn't PDF isomorfic with XSL:FO?
It greatly depends on what "isomorphic" means to you. If it means that
everything that FO can do can be done in PDF, yes, but the other way
around is false.
PDF is a declarative programming language that can be seens as a
PostScript subset in some ways, but adds some different functionalities
like scripting, multi-media integration, etc.. XSL:FO doesn't deal with
any of those (for good reasons!).
> If it is then why isn't there any tool to convert it?
PDF != FO
Also, like in any programming language, there are tons of ways to do the
same thing... in PDF, this means that there are many ways of writing the
same page on the screen with different PDF documents. Some might use
text, others may use vectors.
Now, even if you PDF is generated from a FO (so it doesn't include any
other PDF capabilities), it's not algorithmically certain (read: you
need a brain to do that!) to convert it back into FO.
Just like when you do "1 + 1" you get "2" but there are an infinite set
of couples which sum is "2", not just one.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Andrzej Dmoch <an...@step.pl>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Henning von Bargen wrote:
> >
> > There's a tool called ps2edit (an extension to ghostscript) that promises
> > to convert files from PS or PDF to SVG, but I didn't test it.
> > >From SVG, why should you then want to use XSL:FO ?
> > SVG is a XML format in itself and you can use XSL to do whatever you want.
>
> Like, for example, do neural OCR on the SVG vectors to get FO text using
> XSLT stylesheets? good luck :)
I know but if the aim is to add some text to PDF files and print it then SVG
doesn't look bad.
BTW, isn't PDF isomorfic with XSL:FO? If it is then why isn't there any tool to
convert it?
Andrzej
Re: AW: Reverse XSL:FO
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Henning von Bargen wrote:
>
> There's a tool called ps2edit (an extension to ghostscript) that promises
> to convert files from PS or PDF to SVG, but I didn't test it.
> >From SVG, why should you then want to use XSL:FO ?
> SVG is a XML format in itself and you can use XSL to do whatever you want.
Like, for example, do neural OCR on the SVG vectors to get FO text using
XSLT stylesheets? good luck :)
Converting PS to FO is not different from converting JPG to MathML, or
WAV to VoxML.
XSLT is great but not magic :)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------