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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> on 2014/07/22 08:28:54 UTC
[PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
+1 if you are in favor of not releasing
0 if you are in favor of just not releasing 4.4
-1 if you are very sorry you didn't vote, will better your life and
volunteer to be the next RM
kind regards,
--
Daan
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Nux! <nu...@li.nux.ro>.
Hi,
Apologies for not getting much involved with 4.4, I had zero time to test anything, so couldn't vote blindly.
Having said that, -1 on abandoning, getting 4.4 out of the door, even if it's crappy, will get more people interested to test it which will hopefully lead to a great 4.4.1.
I hope things will pick up as summer comes to an end.
--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
Nux!
www.nux.ro
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daan Hoogland" <da...@gmail.com>
> To: "dev" <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 July, 2014 7:28:54 AM
> Subject: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
>
> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>
> +1 if you are in favor of not releasing
> 0 if you are in favor of just not releasing 4.4
> -1 if you are very sorry you didn't vote, will better your life and
> volunteer to be the next RM
>
> kind regards,
> --
> Daan
>
RE: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>.
For completeness, the original email: http://markmail.org/message/3yknkjr2gnvfcqxb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogland@gmail.com]
> Sent: 22 July 2014 14:46
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
>
> Sebastien, this is not about git. And the last RC did not get any vote. It got
> one problem reported which turned out to be a user error.
> I repeat: No vote at all.
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > -1 on abandoning 4.4
> >
> > If you are not getting VOTEs, ping the private@ and ask PMCs to vote, you
> only need 3 pmc vote to release.
> >
> > I am inundating by emails and did not even see the new VOTE thread, I left
> it as the last VOTE that got -1 within 24 hours.
> >
> >
> > As to why this is happening, I expressed my thoughts in a thread about git
> flow. Folks don't seem to be interested.
> >
> > Test no test, ci no ci, coverity no coverity, if we don't fix our git flow we will
> never release on-time.
> >
> > -sebastien
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> It might help to ask what's stopping people from voting.
> >>
> >> It would seem the correct approach is to only vote for an RC if you've
> been part of the QA process either formally by having overseen the build
> validation infrastructure or informally by having installed the RC and run
> some tests.
> >>
> >> Perhaps this is too difficult.
> >>
> >> DL
> >>
> >> PS. Tempted to flame? See
> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogland@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: 22 July 2014 10:15
> >>> To: dev
> >>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander
> >>> <wi...@widodh.nl>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
> >>>>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm
> >>>> truly sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
> >>> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize
> >>> for sending it.
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>>> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
> >>> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it.
> >>> the reason of my frustration is a very bad sign though.
> >>>
> >>> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I
> >>> don't know. I do know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not
> knowing.
> >>>
> >>> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all
> >>> that I this is the way to make me contemplate so.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Daan
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Daan
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 22, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sebastien, this is not about git. And the last RC did not get any
> vote. It got one problem reported which turned out to be a user error.
> I repeat: No vote at all.
>
If you think that's the problem, then you keep the VOTE open until you get enough votes to make a decision. Nothing mandates us to close a vote, you can keep it open.
Then as RM you go and find the votes
-sebastien
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> -1 on abandoning 4.4
>>
>> If you are not getting VOTEs, ping the private@ and ask PMCs to vote, you only need 3 pmc vote to release.
>>
>> I am inundating by emails and did not even see the new VOTE thread, I left it as the last VOTE that got -1 within 24 hours.
>>
>>
>> As to why this is happening, I expressed my thoughts in a thread about git flow. Folks don't seem to be interested.
>>
>> Test no test, ci no ci, coverity no coverity, if we don't fix our git flow we will never release on-time.
>>
>> -sebastien
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It might help to ask what's stopping people from voting.
>>>
>>> It would seem the correct approach is to only vote for an RC if you've been part of the QA process either formally by having overseen the build validation infrastructure or informally by having installed the RC and run some tests.
>>>
>>> Perhaps this is too difficult.
>>>
>>> DL
>>>
>>> PS. Tempted to flame? See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogland@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: 22 July 2014 10:15
>>>> To: dev
>>>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
>>>>>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
>>>>> sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
>>>> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
>>>> sending it.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
>>>> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the reason of
>>>> my frustration is a very bad sign though.
>>>>
>>>> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't know. I do
>>>> know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not knowing.
>>>>
>>>> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all that I this is
>>>> the way to make me contemplate so.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Daan
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Daan
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
Sebastien, this is not about git. And the last RC did not get any
vote. It got one problem reported which turned out to be a user error.
I repeat: No vote at all.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> -1 on abandoning 4.4
>
> If you are not getting VOTEs, ping the private@ and ask PMCs to vote, you only need 3 pmc vote to release.
>
> I am inundating by emails and did not even see the new VOTE thread, I left it as the last VOTE that got -1 within 24 hours.
>
>
> As to why this is happening, I expressed my thoughts in a thread about git flow. Folks don't seem to be interested.
>
> Test no test, ci no ci, coverity no coverity, if we don't fix our git flow we will never release on-time.
>
> -sebastien
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>> It might help to ask what's stopping people from voting.
>>
>> It would seem the correct approach is to only vote for an RC if you've been part of the QA process either formally by having overseen the build validation infrastructure or informally by having installed the RC and run some tests.
>>
>> Perhaps this is too difficult.
>>
>> DL
>>
>> PS. Tempted to flame? See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogland@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: 22 July 2014 10:15
>>> To: dev
>>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
>>>>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
>>>> sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
>>> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
>>> sending it.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
>>> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the reason of
>>> my frustration is a very bad sign though.
>>>
>>> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't know. I do
>>> know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not knowing.
>>>
>>> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all that I this is
>>> the way to make me contemplate so.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daan
>
--
Daan
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
-1 on abandoning 4.4
If you are not getting VOTEs, ping the private@ and ask PMCs to vote, you only need 3 pmc vote to release.
I am inundating by emails and did not even see the new VOTE thread, I left it as the last VOTE that got -1 within 24 hours.
As to why this is happening, I expressed my thoughts in a thread about git flow. Folks don't seem to be interested.
Test no test, ci no ci, coverity no coverity, if we don't fix our git flow we will never release on-time.
-sebastien
On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com> wrote:
> It might help to ask what's stopping people from voting.
>
> It would seem the correct approach is to only vote for an RC if you've been part of the QA process either formally by having overseen the build validation infrastructure or informally by having installed the RC and run some tests.
>
> Perhaps this is too difficult.
>
> DL
>
> PS. Tempted to flame? See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogland@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 22 July 2014 10:15
>> To: dev
>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
>>>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
>>> sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
>> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
>> sending it.
>>
>> ...
>>> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
>> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the reason of
>> my frustration is a very bad sign though.
>>
>> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't know. I do
>> know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not knowing.
>>
>> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all that I this is
>> the way to make me contemplate so.
>>
>> --
>> Daan
RE: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>.
It might help to ask what's stopping people from voting.
It would seem the correct approach is to only vote for an RC if you've been part of the QA process either formally by having overseen the build validation infrastructure or informally by having installed the RC and run some tests.
Perhaps this is too difficult.
DL
PS. Tempted to flame? See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham's_Law
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daan Hoogland [mailto:daan.hoogland@gmail.com]
> Sent: 22 July 2014 10:15
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
> wrote:
> > On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
> >>
> >> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
> >> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
> >>
> >
> > So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
> > sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
> sending it.
>
> ...
> > I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the reason of
> my frustration is a very bad sign though.
>
> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't know. I do
> know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not knowing.
>
> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all that I this is
> the way to make me contemplate so.
>
> --
> Daan
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Pierre-Luc Dion <pd...@cloudops.com>.
-1 (here is my vote for this thread :-P)
Shouldn't we improve release management process instead? Look like
releasing 4.4 is a huge pain, I guest it shouldn't be that way.
Could we have a discussion session regarding Release management at the next
CCCEU14? There was one at Denver and I think the discussion need to append
again...
What is remaining to do to release 4.4?
Personally I wouldn't vote without a minimum of tests against an RC.
*Pierre-Luc DION*
Architecte de Solution Cloud | Cloud Solutions Architect
t 855.652.5683
*CloudOps* Votre partenaire infonuagique* | *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6
w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>
>
> On 07/22/2014 11:15 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
>>>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
>>> sorry
>>> for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
>>>
>> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
>> sending it.
>>
>>
> I feel guilty for not voting, but I didn't see your e-mail as a personal
> attack. I'm just not happy with the fact that I didn't get to it.
>
>
> ...
>>
>>> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
>>>
>> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the
>> reason of my frustration is a very bad sign though.
>>
>>
> Fully agree, there shouldn't be that much frustration around a release,
> that is a very bad sign which should be resolved asap.
>
>
> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't
>> know. I do know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not
>> knowing.
>>
>> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all
>> that I this is the way to make me contemplate so.
>>
>>
> Understood!
>
> Wido
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
On 07/22/2014 11:15 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>>
>>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
>>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>>>
>>
>> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly sorry
>> for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
> This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
> sending it.
>
I feel guilty for not voting, but I didn't see your e-mail as a personal
attack. I'm just not happy with the fact that I didn't get to it.
> ...
>> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
> yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the
> reason of my frustration is a very bad sign though.
>
Fully agree, there shouldn't be that much frustration around a release,
that is a very bad sign which should be resolved asap.
> I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't
> know. I do know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not
> knowing.
>
> I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all
> that I this is the way to make me contemplate so.
>
Understood!
Wido
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
> On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>
>> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
>> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>>
>
> So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly sorry
> for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
This was not a personal attack on you or anybody. I must apologize for
sending it.
...
> I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
yes, that is the source for my sarcasm. I felt sorry as I sent it. the
reason of my frustration is a very bad sign though.
I have been thinking if this is a +1/0/-1 on my job as RM and I don't
know. I do know that I wouldn't have minded a -1 as much as not
knowing.
I will not abandon this work just yet but I have to threaten you all
that I this is the way to make me contemplate so.
--
Daan
RE: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Santhosh Edukulla <sa...@citrix.com>.
Even, i agree, the effort from people adding features, fixes and others like RM should not go in vain, and not set something as a wrong precedent of abandoning a release.
Regards,
Santhosh
________________________________________
From: Wido den Hollander [wido@widodh.nl]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 5:07 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>
So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
For me personally it's just a matter of time. I only want to vote when I
got enough time to actually test it and I simply didn't, so I did not vote.
I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
Wido
> +1 if you are in favor of not releasing
> 0 if you are in favor of just not releasing 4.4
> -1 if you are very sorry you didn't vote, will better your life and
> volunteer to be the next RM
>
> kind regards,
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
On 07/22/2014 08:28 AM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>
So this is not a good thing. Honestly, yes, I didn't vote, I'm truly
sorry for that, but didn't I see other votes come along?
For me personally it's just a matter of time. I only want to vote when I
got enough time to actually test it and I simply didn't, so I did not vote.
I saw a vote being abandoned due to a bad quorum, right?
Wido
> +1 if you are in favor of not releasing
> 0 if you are in favor of just not releasing 4.4
> -1 if you are very sorry you didn't vote, will better your life and
> volunteer to be the next RM
>
> kind regards,
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] *LET'S ABANDON 4.4*
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
-1 We should release 4.4
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:28 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had no vote's on the last release candidate. I move we abandon
> releasing 4.4 or stop releasing at all.
>
> +1 if you are in favor of not releasing
> 0 if you are in favor of just not releasing 4.4
> -1 if you are very sorry you didn't vote, will better your life and
> volunteer to be the next RM
>
> kind regards,
> --
> Daan