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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it> on 2010/11/24 10:16:10 UTC
Fwd: Re: JSF vs Tapestry
I forward to the list what a jsf developer has written to me: I'm
working with him on a project where he has to develop the web
application and I'm working on a web service consumed by his web
application.
I had forwarded to him a message by Thiago that was trying to point out
differences between T5 and JSF.
The interesting thing he has to say is about facelets as a way to use
standard XHTML templates inside JSF.
Also the difficulty to use together different component sets is
interesting: reminds me of the issue with different JavaScript
components in T5.
But what really surprises me is the similarity he found between struts
and JSF
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Hi Ivano,
We do indeed use JSF for our web development and more specifically we
use Icefaces which is a set of AJAX enabled components and AJAX push
framework which sits on top of JSF. We chose to use JSF because it
wasn't too dissimilar from Struts which we were using before. Generally
we find it very good although it does have some shortcomings but they
don't tend to get in the way too much. We are using JSF 1.2 but JSF 2.0
is now available and adds support for some of the things on your list
such as, you can now use annotations for lots of things you use to have
to use XML for, there is also the addition of page level scope as per
the tapestry idea. One point the tapestry guy is wrong about though is
that with JSF you don't have to use JSP, that is only one option. We use
facelets which is now part of the JSF 2.0 spec so if you use that you
code directly in XHTML using the relevant faces tags, thus the problems
that came from using JSP as a display layer disappear.
With JSF you get a choice of which component set you want to use, or I
believe you can use multiple but then configuration becomes more
challenging. We looked at a number including Richfaces and Woodstock and
decided that Icefaces offered the best set of components. All three of
those are open source though so are completely free to use, although
support is available too.
Unfortunately I don't know a great deal about tapestry so I can't really
say how it compares to JSF, I think you'd have to evaluate them both and
decide which one is easier for you to work with based on your previous
experience.
Hope that helps,
Darren
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Re: JSF vs Tapestry
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
Noe it works also for me: It seems I have hit a hole , sorry for false
alarm I had tried three times in a span of few minutes before writing
the e-mail.
Il 24/11/2010 10.59, Igor Drobiazko ha scritto:
> Nope, it works for me.
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>wrote:
>
>> Oh yes! I can remember about that: but the link is not working, the web
>> site seems down
>>
>> Il 24/11/2010 10.27, Igor Drobiazko ha scritto:
>>> Maybe this presentation will be interesting for the jsf developer.
>>>
>>>
>> http://blog.tapestry5.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/JSF-2.0-vs-Tapestry-5.pdf
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Ivano Luberti <luberti@archicoop.it
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I forward to the list what a jsf developer has written to me: I'm
>>>> working with him on a project where he has to develop the web
>>>> application and I'm working on a web service consumed by his web
>>>> application.
>>>>
>>>> I had forwarded to him a message by Thiago that was trying to point out
>>>> differences between T5 and JSF.
>>>> The interesting thing he has to say is about facelets as a way to use
>>>> standard XHTML templates inside JSF.
>>>> Also the difficulty to use together different component sets is
>>>> interesting: reminds me of the issue with different JavaScript
>>>> components in T5.
>>>>
>>>> But what really surprises me is the similarity he found between struts
>>>> and JSF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Messaggio originale --------
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ivano,
>>>>
>>>> We do indeed use JSF for our web development and more specifically we
>>>> use Icefaces which is a set of AJAX enabled components and AJAX push
>>>> framework which sits on top of JSF. We chose to use JSF because it
>>>> wasn't too dissimilar from Struts which we were using before. Generally
>>>> we find it very good although it does have some shortcomings but they
>>>> don't tend to get in the way too much. We are using JSF 1.2 but JSF 2.0
>>>> is now available and adds support for some of the things on your list
>>>> such as, you can now use annotations for lots of things you use to have
>>>> to use XML for, there is also the addition of page level scope as per
>>>> the tapestry idea. One point the tapestry guy is wrong about though is
>>>> that with JSF you don't have to use JSP, that is only one option. We use
>>>> facelets which is now part of the JSF 2.0 spec so if you use that you
>>>> code directly in XHTML using the relevant faces tags, thus the problems
>>>> that came from using JSP as a display layer disappear.
>>>>
>>>> With JSF you get a choice of which component set you want to use, or I
>>>> believe you can use multiple but then configuration becomes more
>>>> challenging. We looked at a number including Richfaces and Woodstock and
>>>> decided that Icefaces offered the best set of components. All three of
>>>> those are open source though so are completely free to use, although
>>>> support is available too.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately I don't know a great deal about tapestry so I can't really
>>>> say how it compares to JSF, I think you'd have to evaluate them both and
>>>> decide which one is easier for you to work with based on your previous
>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>> Darren
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> ==================================================
>> dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
>> Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
>> Sede Operativa
>> Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
>> tel.: +39-050- 580959
>> tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
>> web: www.archicoop.it
>> ==================================================
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: JSF vs Tapestry
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
Nope, it works for me.
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>wrote:
> Oh yes! I can remember about that: but the link is not working, the web
> site seems down
>
> Il 24/11/2010 10.27, Igor Drobiazko ha scritto:
> > Maybe this presentation will be interesting for the jsf developer.
> >
> >
> http://blog.tapestry5.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/JSF-2.0-vs-Tapestry-5.pdf
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Ivano Luberti <luberti@archicoop.it
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I forward to the list what a jsf developer has written to me: I'm
> >> working with him on a project where he has to develop the web
> >> application and I'm working on a web service consumed by his web
> >> application.
> >>
> >> I had forwarded to him a message by Thiago that was trying to point out
> >> differences between T5 and JSF.
> >> The interesting thing he has to say is about facelets as a way to use
> >> standard XHTML templates inside JSF.
> >> Also the difficulty to use together different component sets is
> >> interesting: reminds me of the issue with different JavaScript
> >> components in T5.
> >>
> >> But what really surprises me is the similarity he found between struts
> >> and JSF
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- Messaggio originale --------
> >>
> >> Hi Ivano,
> >>
> >> We do indeed use JSF for our web development and more specifically we
> >> use Icefaces which is a set of AJAX enabled components and AJAX push
> >> framework which sits on top of JSF. We chose to use JSF because it
> >> wasn't too dissimilar from Struts which we were using before. Generally
> >> we find it very good although it does have some shortcomings but they
> >> don't tend to get in the way too much. We are using JSF 1.2 but JSF 2.0
> >> is now available and adds support for some of the things on your list
> >> such as, you can now use annotations for lots of things you use to have
> >> to use XML for, there is also the addition of page level scope as per
> >> the tapestry idea. One point the tapestry guy is wrong about though is
> >> that with JSF you don't have to use JSP, that is only one option. We use
> >> facelets which is now part of the JSF 2.0 spec so if you use that you
> >> code directly in XHTML using the relevant faces tags, thus the problems
> >> that came from using JSP as a display layer disappear.
> >>
> >> With JSF you get a choice of which component set you want to use, or I
> >> believe you can use multiple but then configuration becomes more
> >> challenging. We looked at a number including Richfaces and Woodstock and
> >> decided that Icefaces offered the best set of components. All three of
> >> those are open source though so are completely free to use, although
> >> support is available too.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately I don't know a great deal about tapestry so I can't really
> >> say how it compares to JSF, I think you'd have to evaluate them both and
> >> decide which one is easier for you to work with based on your previous
> >> experience.
> >>
> >> Hope that helps,
> >> Darren
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> ==================================================
> dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
> Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
> Sede Operativa
> Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
> tel.: +39-050- 580959
> tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
> web: www.archicoop.it
> ==================================================
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de
Re: JSF vs Tapestry
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
Oh yes! I can remember about that: but the link is not working, the web
site seems down
Il 24/11/2010 10.27, Igor Drobiazko ha scritto:
> Maybe this presentation will be interesting for the jsf developer.
>
> http://blog.tapestry5.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/JSF-2.0-vs-Tapestry-5.pdf
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>wrote:
>
>> I forward to the list what a jsf developer has written to me: I'm
>> working with him on a project where he has to develop the web
>> application and I'm working on a web service consumed by his web
>> application.
>>
>> I had forwarded to him a message by Thiago that was trying to point out
>> differences between T5 and JSF.
>> The interesting thing he has to say is about facelets as a way to use
>> standard XHTML templates inside JSF.
>> Also the difficulty to use together different component sets is
>> interesting: reminds me of the issue with different JavaScript
>> components in T5.
>>
>> But what really surprises me is the similarity he found between struts
>> and JSF
>>
>>
>> -------- Messaggio originale --------
>>
>> Hi Ivano,
>>
>> We do indeed use JSF for our web development and more specifically we
>> use Icefaces which is a set of AJAX enabled components and AJAX push
>> framework which sits on top of JSF. We chose to use JSF because it
>> wasn't too dissimilar from Struts which we were using before. Generally
>> we find it very good although it does have some shortcomings but they
>> don't tend to get in the way too much. We are using JSF 1.2 but JSF 2.0
>> is now available and adds support for some of the things on your list
>> such as, you can now use annotations for lots of things you use to have
>> to use XML for, there is also the addition of page level scope as per
>> the tapestry idea. One point the tapestry guy is wrong about though is
>> that with JSF you don't have to use JSP, that is only one option. We use
>> facelets which is now part of the JSF 2.0 spec so if you use that you
>> code directly in XHTML using the relevant faces tags, thus the problems
>> that came from using JSP as a display layer disappear.
>>
>> With JSF you get a choice of which component set you want to use, or I
>> believe you can use multiple but then configuration becomes more
>> challenging. We looked at a number including Richfaces and Woodstock and
>> decided that Icefaces offered the best set of components. All three of
>> those are open source though so are completely free to use, although
>> support is available too.
>>
>> Unfortunately I don't know a great deal about tapestry so I can't really
>> say how it compares to JSF, I think you'd have to evaluate them both and
>> decide which one is easier for you to work with based on your previous
>> experience.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>> Darren
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Re: JSF vs Tapestry
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
Maybe this presentation will be interesting for the jsf developer.
http://blog.tapestry5.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/JSF-2.0-vs-Tapestry-5.pdf
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>wrote:
> I forward to the list what a jsf developer has written to me: I'm
> working with him on a project where he has to develop the web
> application and I'm working on a web service consumed by his web
> application.
>
> I had forwarded to him a message by Thiago that was trying to point out
> differences between T5 and JSF.
> The interesting thing he has to say is about facelets as a way to use
> standard XHTML templates inside JSF.
> Also the difficulty to use together different component sets is
> interesting: reminds me of the issue with different JavaScript
> components in T5.
>
> But what really surprises me is the similarity he found between struts
> and JSF
>
>
> -------- Messaggio originale --------
>
> Hi Ivano,
>
> We do indeed use JSF for our web development and more specifically we
> use Icefaces which is a set of AJAX enabled components and AJAX push
> framework which sits on top of JSF. We chose to use JSF because it
> wasn't too dissimilar from Struts which we were using before. Generally
> we find it very good although it does have some shortcomings but they
> don't tend to get in the way too much. We are using JSF 1.2 but JSF 2.0
> is now available and adds support for some of the things on your list
> such as, you can now use annotations for lots of things you use to have
> to use XML for, there is also the addition of page level scope as per
> the tapestry idea. One point the tapestry guy is wrong about though is
> that with JSF you don't have to use JSP, that is only one option. We use
> facelets which is now part of the JSF 2.0 spec so if you use that you
> code directly in XHTML using the relevant faces tags, thus the problems
> that came from using JSP as a display layer disappear.
>
> With JSF you get a choice of which component set you want to use, or I
> believe you can use multiple but then configuration becomes more
> challenging. We looked at a number including Richfaces and Woodstock and
> decided that Icefaces offered the best set of components. All three of
> those are open source though so are completely free to use, although
> support is available too.
>
> Unfortunately I don't know a great deal about tapestry so I can't really
> say how it compares to JSF, I think you'd have to evaluate them both and
> decide which one is easier for you to work with based on your previous
> experience.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Darren
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de
Re: Fwd: Re: JSF vs Tapestry
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:16:10 -0200, Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>
wrote:
> I had forwarded to him a message by Thiago that was trying to point out
> differences between T5 and JSF.
> The interesting thing he has to say is about facelets as a way to use
> standard XHTML templates inside JSF.
Facelets was inspired by the Tapestry 4 template engine. I'm not making
this up, this was explicitly said in the Facelets home page
(https://facelets.dev.java.net/). :) "The web community is eagerly seeking
a framework like Tapestry, backed by JavaServer Faces as the industry
standard."
> Also the difficulty to use together different component sets is
> interesting: reminds me of the issue with different JavaScript
> components in T5.
Are you talking about Tapestry or JSF? JSF has compatibility problems
among implementation and packages, Tapestry doesn't. The
incomplatibilities you're talking about are purely JavaScript ones
(Prototype vs jQuery), not Tapestry related.
> But what really surprises me is the similarity he found between struts
> and JSF
It doesn't surprise me. struts-config.xml (aaaaaaaaaaaaargh) and
faces-config.xml are similar. Both frameworks use navigations rules (which
I consider a faiiled experiment, a solution in search of a problem) and
have the same architect (Craig McClanahan). JSF, to me, looks like a
component-oriented version of Struts.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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