You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to docs@httpd.apache.org by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> on 2006/06/27 12:28:05 UTC
/docs rewrite rules
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Not to bring up a well-beaten dead horse, but ...
Is it yet time to make /docs redirect to /docs/2.2 rather than /docs/1.3
Please?
- --
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEoQg1XP03+sx4yJMRArqZAKCLvJOIsUEVxd37lRoXzpA0KY0pBwCcD+A8
Cn93jGnkTPSOQB5fEIKvwZo=
=iiNM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Andé Malo <nd...@perlig.de>.
* Noirin Plunkett wrote:
> Other people's broken links aren't really our problem.
Agreed. Under the assumption that we don't care about our users.
I prefer the idea of cool URIs <http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI>.
It might have been a mistake to provide URIs without versioning in the first
place, but now we have to live with it. I personally think, the current
solution is a good one.
We might provide additional links on the 1.3 pages to the most current
version (if there is), which would be actually an improvement to the
current situtation. I'd also agree to a solution, where docs/current/
redirects (!) to like docs/2.2/. These are easily combinable, btw.
nd
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On 6/27/06, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> Joshua Slive wrote:
> > That is FAR more important than
> > the fact that having /docs/something map to 1.3 is not "pretty" from a
> > visual perspective.
>
> No, it has nothing whatever to do with looking pretty. It has to do with
> getting the documentation for the recommended version of the product
> when you request the documentation.
I guess our difference here is that I assume people "request the
documentation" by going to the homepage and clicking on links. These
people get the recommended version. The only people that should ever
wind up at /docs/something are people following old links.
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Joshua Slive wrote:
> That is FAR more important than
> the fact that having /docs/something map to 1.3 is not "pretty" from a
> visual perspective.
No, it has nothing whatever to do with looking pretty. It has to do with
getting the documentation for the recommended version of the product
when you request the documentation.
But, you're right, we've hashed it through repeatedly, and I lack the
energy to do it again. It seems unintuitive to me that /docs will
forever map to a version of the product that we encourage people not to
use. Perhaps some day we can decide that a vanishingly small portion of
the population uses 1.3, and we can change it then.
Sorry for bringing it up. It had been a year since the last time, and it
seemed like an opportune moment.
- --
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEoUZwXP03+sx4yJMRApMhAKDNBxjV+txjmwjQrj4/xDv9awRnlACg59r7
KLGuE9twv5yxVSOIc0/WEV4=
=tSg6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 27.06.2006, at 17:26, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Joshua Slive wrote:
>> On 6/27/06, Noirin Plunkett <no...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:48:56AM -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Any other solution would result in MANY broken links (due to
>>> changes
>>> > in doc structure, not to mention the fact that some people still
>>> > really do want to link to the 1.3 docs).
>>>
>>> Other people's broken links aren't really our problem.
>> Ahhhhh (hear me screaming), of course they are ;-)
>> http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI
>> One of the most important characteristic of URIs are that they refer
>> to a specific resource permanently. That is FAR more important than
>> the fact that having /docs/something map to 1.3 is not "pretty"
>> from a
>> visual perspective.
>
> Yet who cares? If the formerly docs/mod/mod_alias.html becomes the
> 2.2
> version of the same document, there should be no issue.
Agreed.
Btw, my theory is that the slow adoption rate of 2.x is simply
because of people not being able to easily find the most current
version of the documentation at /docs/... oops ;-P
Cheers,
Erik
[if it isn't clear: I'm joking so ignore me]
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Joshua Slive wrote:
> On 6/27/06, Noirin Plunkett <no...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:48:56AM -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
>> >
>> > Any other solution would result in MANY broken links (due to changes
>> > in doc structure, not to mention the fact that some people still
>> > really do want to link to the 1.3 docs).
>>
>> Other people's broken links aren't really our problem.
>
> Ahhhhh (hear me screaming), of course they are ;-)
> http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI
> One of the most important characteristic of URIs are that they refer
> to a specific resource permanently. That is FAR more important than
> the fact that having /docs/something map to 1.3 is not "pretty" from a
> visual perspective.
Yet who cares? If the formerly docs/mod/mod_alias.html becomes the 2.2
version of the same document, there should be no issue.
Unfortunately, docs/mod/mod_access.html goes *poof*.
So if the old pattern URL's always go to the now-current release branch,
do we want to start creating some redirects from old-module-name into our
new-module-name?
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On 6/27/06, Noirin Plunkett <no...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:48:56AM -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
> >
> > Any other solution would result in MANY broken links (due to changes
> > in doc structure, not to mention the fact that some people still
> > really do want to link to the 1.3 docs).
>
> Other people's broken links aren't really our problem.
Ahhhhh (hear me screaming), of course they are ;-)
http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI
One of the most important characteristic of URIs are that they refer
to a specific resource permanently. That is FAR more important than
the fact that having /docs/something map to 1.3 is not "pretty" from a
visual perspective.
> Historic or otherwise, I can't see a single reason /docs/something
> shouldn't go to the most recent version of the docs. Always. Even when
> that's not 2.2, or whatever.
Here's two. I'm sure I could come up with many more:
1) There are many resources in the 1.3 docs that have moved or been
removed in the 2.2 docs. These would result in perfectly valid links
getting sent to nowhere.
2) It is perfectly reasonable for someone running 1.3 to want to point
their users to a specific item in the 1.3 docs. For example, many
sites point to our docs to give users info on how to setup
authentication. Since this process has changed greatly in 2.2, if we
redirected we would be breaking other peoples' docs.
We already have a link for the most recent docs: /trunk/. If we want
to create another permanent link for the most recent released version,
fine. But don't break thousands of links just to make things look
nicer!
Anyway, we've hashed this out before and I don't see any problem with
the compromise we arrived at.
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Noirin Plunkett <no...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:48:56AM -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
>
> Any other solution would result in MANY broken links (due to changes
> in doc structure, not to mention the fact that some people still
> really do want to link to the 1.3 docs).
Other people's broken links aren't really our problem.
Historic or otherwise, I can't see a single reason /docs/something
shouldn't go to the most recent version of the docs. Always. Even when
that's not 2.2, or whatever.
No one's advocating getting rid of the 1.3 docs, for those who really do
want to link to them.
Noirin
> Joshua.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Colm MacCarthaigh <co...@stdlib.net>.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 09:48:56AM -0400, Joshua Slive wrote:
> Right. We already delt with this. The generic /docs/ goes to a list.
> Links to specific pages under /docs/ still go to the specific pages
> in the 1.3 docs, but each page has a header at the top letting people
> know that they are not in the most recent version.
With our newly readable reqrite documentation, we could figure out
how to create some 302 redirect rules which are based on the existence
of the files in question ;-)
e.g.;
1. user request to /docs/blah
2. if exist $webroot/docs/$latest/blah redirct to
/docs/$latest/blah
3. Repeat 2 as required for values of $not-so-latest
4. fall back to $webroot/docs/1.3/blah and serve
a 404 if neccessary
Would this satisfy everyones requirements?
--
Colm MacCárthaigh Public Key: colm+pgp@stdlib.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On 6/27/06, Hiroaki Kawai <ka...@iij.ad.jp> wrote:
> Does the server redirect /docs to /docs/1.3 now?
>
> I tried to access http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ and got a
> list of documentations for each version.
> # Do I miss something?
Right. We already delt with this. The generic /docs/ goes to a list.
Links to specific pages under /docs/ still go to the specific pages
in the 1.3 docs, but each page has a header at the top letting people
know that they are not in the most recent version.
Any other solution would result in MANY broken links (due to changes
in doc structure, not to mention the fact that some people still
really do want to link to the 1.3 docs).
Joshua.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Astrid 'Kess' Keßler <ke...@kess-net.de>.
On Tuesday 27 June 2006 18:25, Hiroaki Kawai wrote:
> > > I see.
> > >
> > > IMHO, we should not use /docs/mod/mod_xx.html any
> > > more and leave it as-is for historical reason.
> >
> > If we want to not-use /docs/something, we should get rid of it
> > altogether. If we don't want to get rid of it, it should point to the
> > most recent (stable) version.
>
> Agree.
No, disagree. We did use /docs/something in the past. And these docs pages are still valid.
As already said, especially by Joshua, there are a lot of reasons, to keep URIs stable. It's not only http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI, Joshua pointed out some more reasons.
>
> > > By the way, in which page are you want to use
> > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_xx.html
> > > syntax? Why you want to make it to point the
> > > recent version?
> >
> > These URLs exist, all around the internet, for various things. The help
> > bot in #apache uses them, for example.
If we want the bot to point to the current documentation, then these answers are wrong for a long time.
The bot is no argument to change our URIs. Teach the bot to give correct answers. The use of /docs/current (nice idea) will fix this once and for all.
> >
> > It should point to the most recent version because otherwise people are
> > always looking at old docs, really, why do we /have/ newer versions, if
> > it's not because they're better - in some way - than the old?
>
> You mean, that the location /docs/mod/mod_xx.html is
> so distributed around the internet, that we want to
> navigate it to the current version, right?
> I agree that we want to make people use Apache2.2 because
> it is the best version available.
The better way would be (als also already sugested) to mark old docs being outdated and point to /docs/current. This will give the reader every information he needs without breaking URIs.
Breaking URIs one of the most painful things at the web, I know. There are several reasons to bookmark or link to a special URI. I really hate it to come back some month later and get totally different content (mostly without any information where to find the old content). Hell, what do the webmasters think, why I am noting just this special docs page from that special version?
> OK, I see the reason, and vote +1 for changing the rewrite rule.
>
As already voted: -1
Think of it as a veto, not only a vote.
There are severals ways to lead a visitor to the current docs version. I want us to use them instead of going the easiest (and arrogant) way of breaking existing URIs.
Kess
> And I'd like to suggest adding ErrorDocument 404 /docs/ to that
> area so that people can know the current version, and check
> his httpd version, and continue reading the documentation.
>
> Thank you for replying me patiently. :-)
>
>
> ---
> Hiroaki Kawai
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Hiroaki Kawai <ka...@iij.ad.jp>.
> > I see.
> >
> > IMHO, we should not use /docs/mod/mod_xx.html any
> > more and leave it as-is for historical reason.
>
> If we want to not-use /docs/something, we should get rid of it
> altogether. If we don't want to get rid of it, it should point to the
> most recent (stable) version.
Agree.
> > By the way, in which page are you want to use
> > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_xx.html
> > syntax? Why you want to make it to point the
> > recent version?
>
> These URLs exist, all around the internet, for various things. The help
> bot in #apache uses them, for example.
>
> It should point to the most recent version because otherwise people are
> always looking at old docs, really, why do we /have/ newer versions, if
> it's not because they're better - in some way - than the old?
You mean, that the location /docs/mod/mod_xx.html is
so distributed around the internet, that we want to
navigate it to the current version, right?
I agree that we want to make people use Apache2.2 because
it is the best version available.
OK, I see the reason, and vote +1 for changing the rewrite rule.
And I'd like to suggest adding ErrorDocument 404 /docs/ to that
area so that people can know the current version, and check
his httpd version, and continue reading the documentation.
Thank you for replying me patiently. :-)
---
Hiroaki Kawai
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Noirin Plunkett <no...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 03:48:53PM +0100, Hiroaki Kawai wrote:
> I see.
>
> IMHO, we should not use /docs/mod/mod_xx.html any
> more and leave it as-is for historical reason.
If we want to not-use /docs/something, we should get rid of it
altogether. If we don't want to get rid of it, it should point to the
most recent (stable) version.
> By the way, in which page are you want to use
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_xx.html
> syntax? Why you want to make it to point the
> recent version?
These URLs exist, all around the internet, for various things. The help
bot in #apache uses them, for example.
It should point to the most recent version because otherwise people are
always looking at old docs, really, why do we /have/ newer versions, if
it's not because they're better - in some way - than the old?
> We have already have the URL
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/trunk/mod/mod_xx.html
> which means the current developing version's
> documentation. If we want a COOL URI for
> the "current documentation", how about this:
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_xx.html
It's not about a cool address - I'm not worried about that.
It's about where the default redirects to.
Note that removing /docs/something altogether, and forcing users to
include a version, would satisfy me too, although it'd probably result
in even more broken links for users - for those who are worried about
such things.
Noirin
>
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Hiroaki Kawai wrote:
> > > Does the server redirect /docs to /docs/1.3 now?
> > >
> > > I tried to access http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ and got a
> > > list of documentations for each version.
> > > # Do I miss something?
> >
> > /docs lists the versions.
> > /doc/mod goes to /docs/1.3/mod
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Hiroaki Kawai <ka...@iij.ad.jp>.
I see.
IMHO, we should not use /docs/mod/mod_xx.html any
more and leave it as-is for historical reason.
By the way, in which page are you want to use
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_xx.html
syntax? Why you want to make it to point the
recent version? We have already have the URL
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/trunk/mod/mod_xx.html
which means the current developing version's
documentation. If we want a COOL URI for
the "current documentation", how about this:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/mod_xx.html
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hiroaki Kawai wrote:
> > Does the server redirect /docs to /docs/1.3 now?
> >
> > I tried to access http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ and got a
> > list of documentations for each version.
> > # Do I miss something?
>
> /docs lists the versions.
> /doc/mod goes to /docs/1.3/mod
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hiroaki Kawai wrote:
> Does the server redirect /docs to /docs/1.3 now?
>
> I tried to access http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ and got a
> list of documentations for each version.
> # Do I miss something?
/docs lists the versions.
/doc/mod goes to /docs/1.3/mod
- --
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEoT/KXP03+sx4yJMRAtzmAJ45Mz2HkhN68NtS9K8EPP+7aW10LQCgp83I
CjP9mppLo8o5ak8xCF3Rx18=
=5BPl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Hiroaki Kawai <ka...@iij.ad.jp>.
Does the server redirect /docs to /docs/1.3 now?
I tried to access http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ and got a
list of documentations for each version.
# Do I miss something?
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 11:58:30AM +0100, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> > Rich Bowen wrote:
> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >Not to bring up a well-beaten dead horse, but ...
> > >
> > >Is it yet time to make /docs redirect to /docs/2.2 rather than /docs/1.3
> >
> > ++1
>
> 1++ =)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Astrid 'Kess' Keßler <ke...@kess-net.de>.
On Tuesday 27 June 2006 13:10, Noirin Plunkett wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 11:58:30AM +0100, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> > Rich Bowen wrote:
> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >Not to bring up a well-beaten dead horse, but ...
> > >
> > >Is it yet time to make /docs redirect to /docs/2.2 rather than /docs/1.3
> >
> > ++1
>
> 1++ =)
>
-1
As Hiroaki said:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ offers a list of available documentations.
Only subpages like http://httpd.apache.org/docs/bind.html are linked
to /docs/1.3. This is for historical reasons.
Kess
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by Noirin Plunkett <no...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 11:58:30AM +0100, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Rich Bowen wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >Not to bring up a well-beaten dead horse, but ...
> >
> >Is it yet time to make /docs redirect to /docs/2.2 rather than /docs/1.3
>
> ++1
1++ =)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: /docs rewrite rules
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Rich Bowen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Not to bring up a well-beaten dead horse, but ...
>
> Is it yet time to make /docs redirect to /docs/2.2 rather than /docs/1.3
++1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org