IRC-Log (April-17-2006)

[Jean-Sebastien Delfino <js...@apache.org>]

(08:31:21 AM) ant_: Hi everyone. 16:30 by my clock, shall we begin?
(08:31:48 AM) haleh: yes
(08:32:06 AM) jboynes: yep
(08:32:16 AM) jboynes: where should we start?
(08:33:06 AM) cr22rc: go around and interoduce ourselfs ? .. (just kidding)
(08:33:13 AM) *jsdelfino:* are we going to discuss our java1 release?
(08:33:35 AM) *jsdelfino:* dates, contents, who volunteers for what?
(08:33:36 AM) haleh: makes sense since we are so close to Java1
(08:33:59 AM) *ant_:* jsdelfino: could you paste the wiki to the release 
details wiki?
(08:34:14 AM) ant_: (the wiki url...)
(08:34:15 AM) *jsdelfino:* I can paste the link yes
(08:34:16 AM) jboynes: http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/Tasks
(08:34:23 AM) jboynes: (I was there already)
(08:35:57 AM) *jsdelfino:* do you guys want to start going over that 
page? or do we talk about a date for the release first? javaone starts 
may 16th
(08:36:31 AM) ant_: date first. how long do we have?
(08:36:36 AM) haleh: Let's work from a date and figure out how much time 
we have to fit content.
(08:36:46 AM) *jsdelfino:* k, sounds good
(08:38:16 AM) *jsdelfino:* what about we try to cut the release fri 12
(08:38:37 AM) haleh: Is that enough time to run the release by PMC and 
get OK for go ahead?
(08:38:52 AM) jmarino: Is Java one Monday?
(08:39:17 AM) haleh: starts Tuesday
(08:39:44 AM) jmarino: so working back from that, do we need to take a vote?
(08:40:06 AM) *jsdelfino:* so to be sure we'd have to have run the 
release by PMC on fri 12
(08:40:10 AM) jboynes: there are two votes
(08:40:14 AM) haleh: Is anyone familiar how long it takes to go through 
PMC for a release?
(08:40:18 AM) *jsdelfino:* meaning we need to have the release before then
(08:40:31 AM) jboynes: one from the project to actually do the release, 
the second from the IPMC to appove it
(08:40:47 AM) jmarino: there are two votes, do they require the same 
length of time?
(08:41:05 AM) jboynes: first one should take no more than 72 hours, the 
second may vary depending on how attentive the IPMC folk are being
(08:41:26 AM) ant_: does the sponsoring (WS) PMC need to vote? (they 
used to, but they may have changed?)
(08:42:08 AM) jboynes: not sure
(08:42:29 AM) jmarino: the other vote is the Tuscany commiters?
(08:42:46 AM) jboynes: when we are out of incubation, yes but in 
incubation I think its just the IPMC
(08:42:58 AM) *jsdelfino:* so, if we cut a release 72hours before Fri 
12, do we think it's reasonable?
(08:43:12 AM) jboynes: ideally we would also have WS-PMC folk voting
(08:43:39 AM) jboynes: I would do it a little earlier - there is test 
time as well
(08:44:04 AM) jboynes: I'd hate to put out a bad release
(08:44:27 AM) haleh: Agree
(08:45:03 AM) *jsdelfino:* I was thinking that 72hours before Fri we'd 
have the tested / clean release, that's what I meant
(08:45:18 AM) haleh: how much time we need for testing and running samples?
(08:45:48 AM) *jsdelfino:* and 2 weeks of testing / controlled fixes 
before...
(08:47:15 AM) *BrentDaniel [/n=BrentDan@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com/] entered 
the room.*
(08:47:40 AM) haleh: so, you are saying.. April 28th (controlled fix and 
test cycle starts), May 9th submitt to PMC and May 12th read
(08:47:42 AM) haleh: ready
(08:48:03 AM) *jsdelfino:* that's what I had in mind, yes
(08:48:45 AM) ant_: I think it has to be ready when we submit to the inc 
PMC doesn't it, we can't fiddle with the binary after that can we?
(08:49:11 AM) jboynes: no
(08:49:48 AM) jboynes: they'll check things like the right legal notices 
etc are in place (and we call it the right name etc.)
(08:50:08 AM) jboynes: some may check to see that it runs
(08:50:45 AM) jboynes: I think we'd want to do a few dry-runs first to 
check that the distro looks ok
(08:51:46 AM) jboynes: one approach may be to start doing nightlies and 
then just pick one we want to release
(08:51:55 AM) *fbudinsky 
[/n=fbudinsk@CPE0004e2fcf7ef-CM023459906283.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com/] 
entered the room.*
(08:53:16 AM) haleh: Should we announce May 9th as a release candidate 
and have everyone try it. We can put binaries somewhere.
(08:54:14 AM) *jsdelfino:* I think we should put nightly build binaries 
up for download for the 2 week cycle, and this is what people test
(08:54:26 AM) haleh: good idea
(08:54:34 AM) *jsdelfino:* goal is: we have selected good binary on or 
before May 9th
(08:54:50 AM) *jsdelfino:* then we go through the approval process
(08:54:54 AM) ant_: ok +1
(08:55:13 AM) *jsdelfino:* and adjust anything reported by the PMC b/w 
9th and 12th
(08:56:12 AM) ant_: is everyone else ok with this?
(08:56:33 AM) rfeng: seems to be good
(08:56:43 AM) jmarino: it depends on the details but in general it seems ok
(08:56:43 AM) haleh: looks good assuming PMC approval is only 72 hours
(08:57:41 AM) ant_: its 72 hours minimum. or longer till there's at 
least three +1 votes
(08:58:13 AM) haleh: do we need to let them know that this is our intend 
to make them aware?
(08:58:19 AM) haleh: intent
(08:59:08 AM) ant_: we could make our mentors aware so they can vote 
promptly
(09:00:40 AM) *ant_:* so it sounds like everyone here is ok with May the 
9th. We need a release manager, I nominate jsdelfino
(09:01:05 AM) jmarino: that works for me
(09:02:07 AM) *haleh:* Jsdelfino, are you ok with this?
(09:02:12 AM) *jsdelfino:* jim, you sure you don't want to do it? you're 
so quick to delegate this :)
(09:02:26 AM) jmarino: I think it was ant who suggested it :)
(09:02:39 AM) jmarino: I was just submitting to peer pressure
(09:02:50 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes I'm ok, I was not quick enough to 
nominate ant I guess :)
(09:03:16 AM) jmarino: seriously, if you're not perhaps someone else 
would volunteer?
(09:03:49 AM) *jsdelfino:* I'm ok to do it unless someone else volunteers
(09:03:52 AM) jmarino: I know you're on tap to do a lot of work on the core
(09:04:40 AM) haleh: Thanks Sebastien for volunteering.
(09:05:00 AM) jmarino: hold on, Sebastien, are you concerned with the 
amount of work?
(09:05:33 AM) *jsdelfino:* no I think I'll be fine
(09:05:48 AM) jmarino: k
(09:07:42 AM) *jsdelfino:* so is everyone in agreement with this: binary 
release may 9th, 2 weeks of testing nightly builds before, and I 
volunteer to be rel. manager?
(09:07:53 AM) ant_: =1
(09:08:00 AM) ant_: +1
(09:08:09 AM) cr22rc: +1
(09:08:13 AM) rfeng: +1
(09:08:21 AM) haleh: +1
(09:08:47 AM) dkulp: +1
(09:08:52 AM) jmarino: +1
(09:09:13 AM) fbudinsky: sorry i missed the beginning of this ... does 
that mean we start nightly binary builds in a couple of weeks?
(09:09:28 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes
(09:09:30 AM) cr22rc: Funny we're agree but do we know what "the 
release" will look like?
(09:09:43 AM) *jsdelfino:* I guess that's the next question :)
(09:10:12 AM) fbudinsky: when are we expecting to have all the function 
for the release (on may 9) or when the builds start?
(09:10:13 AM) jboynes: before that, why wait a couple weeks for nighlties
(09:10:22 AM) jboynes: why not start now?
(09:10:35 AM) *jsdelfino:* good idea, +1 from me to start now
(09:10:50 AM) jmarino: yes it will force us to get integration tests
(09:11:20 AM) *jsdelfino:* any volunteer to look into setting this up?
(09:11:51 AM) jmarino: Dan, I'm not suggesting you volunteer, but you 
could give some advice based on Celtix?
(09:11:54 AM) jboynes: cr22rc, you'd asked dims about continuum - any 
feedback on that?
(09:12:18 AM) rfeng: is this something that continuum can do?
(09:12:44 AM) jmarino: Dan I think has also looked into that vs. 
CruiseControl if I remember
(09:12:48 AM) jboynes: aiui it will continuously run our build
(09:12:51 AM) jmarino: they chose CruiseControl
(09:13:04 AM) jboynes: and we would want to have a build target to 
create a distro
(09:13:04 AM) rfeng: I have a local set-up which runs the mvn build evey 
hour
(09:13:08 AM) dkulp: Continuum might be easire for you
(09:13:21 AM) dkulp: I think apache already has at least one continuum 
server already setup.
(09:13:27 AM) jmarino: why did you guys choose CruisdeControl?\
(09:13:44 AM) dkulp: We didn't like the continuum reporting mechanisms.
(09:14:03 AM) dkulp: The "email" is just a straight log. Getting nice 
html "test failed" type reports is impossible.
(09:14:25 AM) rfeng: I noticed that
(09:14:36 AM) dkulp: Also, continuum only reports on status changes. 
failed -> sucess or sucess -> fail
(09:14:51 AM) jmarino: aside from the infrastructure at Apache, which 
would you recommend? I don't think we need to decide now, but it's good 
to have an idea of some of the issues
(09:14:57 AM) dkulp: We require sucess -> sucess notifications as well 
so people know their commits passed.
(09:14:58 AM) cr22rc: no feedback
(09:15:03 AM) ant_: i think we have to use the Apache infrastructure for 
this
(09:15:28 AM) jmarino: don't others use CruiseControl or is it all 
Continuum?
(09:16:03 AM) jboynes: there's always gump
(09:16:07 AM) ***jboynes ducks for cover
(09:16:48 AM) dkulp: I would suggest trying continuum. If it works for 
you, great.
(09:16:49 AM) cr22rc: gump does not work for m2
(09:17:01 AM) jboynes: rfeng, said he has continuum running so that 
seems easy to do
(09:17:01 AM) ant_: we already have a JIRA for nightly builds which 
cr22rc is looking at. could we leave this discussion to the mailing list 
and move on to the release contents (i have to leave soon)
(09:17:06 AM) dkulp: With maven, continuum is a very easy "try it"
(09:17:42 AM) cr22rc: yes had continuum running/building tuscany
(09:17:58 AM) jboynes: I'd say go with that using rfeng's machine and 
follow up with dims or whoever about running it at apache
(09:18:15 AM) jmarino: yea makes sense
(09:18:22 AM) rfeng: yes, I can post the URL for you to try
(09:18:56 AM) cr22rc: isn't that behind the firewall?
(09:18:59 AM) jboynes: we'll need a build target to make a distro
(09:19:20 AM) haleh: we were told we can publish binaries in Apache even 
when we don't have a release.
(09:19:35 AM) haleh: so, that should get over the firewall problem.
(09:19:40 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok let's do that: start with rfeng's 
continuum, work with dims to see if we can get it running at apache, 
figure out where to publish the jars, and work on a distro
(09:20:13 AM) *jsdelfino:* are people ok with that?
(09:20:30 AM) jmarino: sounds good to me
(09:20:41 AM) jboynes: do we have a volunteer?
(09:21:04 AM) jboynes: rfeng, you have the setup - do you have time?
(09:21:19 AM) rfeng: time for ...?
(09:21:47 AM) *jsdelfino:* the 4 work items I listed before
(09:21:50 AM) jboynes: figuring out how to publish jars, add a target 
for a distro etc?
(09:22:40 AM) haleh: I'll follow up on where we can publish the jar 
files and let rfeng know if he can handle the buidls.
(09:22:50 AM) dkulp: Apache does have a maven2 snapshot repository. 
(although it PATHETICALLY slow)
(09:23:13 AM) rfeng: I think I need some help to figure out how the 
apache infrastructure works
(09:23:15 AM) dkulp: Is that what you mean by publishing jars?
(09:23:35 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes
(09:23:55 AM) jboynes: I was actually thinking of a single download 
distro but publishing to maven would be good to
(09:24:50 AM) jboynes: we can fix the slowness with a mirror - that 
might help the ibiblio/eclipse problems as well
(09:24:52 AM) rfeng: I'll volunteer on this then
(09:25:14 AM) jboynes: I'll help with infra if you need it
(09:25:20 AM) rfeng: sure, thanks
(09:25:20 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok good, thanks a lot, can we discuss the 
content of the release now?
(09:26:09 AM) dkulp: Well, I'm already in discussions aobut the mirror.
(09:26:25 AM) *jsdelfino:* I had put a todo list on the wiki, sort of a 
summary of what has been discussed the last few weeks, thought it would 
help decide on the content
(09:26:26 AM) dkulp: Apparently apache doesn't want to do it..... but 
we'll see.
(09:27:26 AM) jboynes: dkulp, let's follow up on that offline, I'd like 
to know why
(09:27:39 AM) dkulp: OK.
(09:28:29 AM) *jsdelfino:* did you guys get a chance to look at the list 
on the wiki, and do u want any additions / big changes?
(09:29:40 AM) jboynes: there's a lot of "what do we need here" things 
that could do with being filled in
(09:30:06 AM) jmarino: I think there is too much to do on that list by 
the dates we've been talking about
(09:30:07 AM) ant_: just as its getting interesting...i have to go 
sorry. is someone catching the chat log to post to wiki/mailinglist?
(09:30:21 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes I'll post it
(09:30:32 AM) *ant_ is now known as ant_away*
(09:31:39 AM) jboynes: so, the first thing there is the extension API
(09:32:00 AM) jboynes: I've been busy there over the last few days 
trying to clean things u
(09:32:03 AM) jmarino: yes I think that is fundamental. We can break 
down parts
(09:32:17 AM) jboynes: I started to document on the wiki and feedback on 
that would be good
(09:32:44 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes, who wants to work on that? and what do 
you think can be achieved in the time frame / before apr 28th?
(09:33:00 AM) jmarino: Well, I kind of already started, as well as Jeremy
(09:33:21 AM) jmarino: I've been trying to reactor component and builder 
extensions
(09:33:55 AM) *jsdelfino:* how much of that list do you think we can 
have for this release?
(09:33:55 AM) jmarino: one thing that needs to be looked at here is the 
host api
(09:34:28 AM) haleh: should we go through each bullet under extensibilit 
and see which one fits in the timeline and which does not?
(09:34:30 AM) jmarino: I'm confident we can get component, and wiring 
extensions
(09:34:40 AM) jmarino: I would like to see protocol and host apis
(09:34:47 AM) jmarino: and transport
(09:35:00 AM) jmarino: I think those three are related
(09:35:15 AM) jboynes: I've been doing work on bootstrap as a precursor 
for a host API
(09:36:02 AM) jboynes: I think we decided to change the Tomcat setup to 
use composites so there's a fair bit of work there
(09:36:27 AM) jmarino: it would be good if we could get the host API 
worked on in conjunction with some bindings
(09:36:35 AM) jboynes: yes
(09:36:39 AM) jmarino: one obvious one would be Axis
(09:36:44 AM) jmarino: another one could be Celtix
(09:36:47 AM) jboynes: I'd like to get the binding code out of the 
TOmcat host
(09:37:01 AM) jboynes: dkulp, will you have any time to help with Celtix?
(09:37:11 AM) jmarino: you mean you don't want to allow every project in 
the world to modify the Tomcat projects ;)
(09:37:20 AM) jboynes: :-P
(09:37:27 AM) dkulp: I'm working on it. I had client side working, but 
the merges this weekend broke compiling.
(09:37:47 AM) jboynes: ugh, sorry
(09:38:04 AM) dkulp: No problem.
(09:38:04 AM) jmarino: Dan, would you be willing to jump in on the host 
api as well? I think that is related to the bindings
(09:38:30 AM) dkulp: I can try, but we have our 1.0 release at end of 
the month that may take most of my time.
(09:39:20 AM) jmarino: I'd like to be able to show Tuscany working with 
Celtix at JavaOne. Would that fit with your other work?
(09:40:06 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, looks like you want to have most of the 
ext. story for this release, just to be sure we're all on the same page, 
can we go through each bullet, and say yes-who-when / no?
(09:40:07 AM) dkulp: It should.
(09:40:37 AM) *jmarino:* ok jsdelfino's approach seems good to folllow
(09:40:48 AM) dkulp: It also depends on what we want to show. A "tuscany 
using axis" thing hitting a celtix server could be done today (like 
hitting an axis server)
(09:41:09 AM) jmarino: I was thinking of using Celtix bindings with Tuscany
(09:41:37 AM) dkulp: I hope to have that working next week. Like I said, 
calling out was working.
(09:41:38 AM) jmarino: in other words, Celtix used to extend Tuscany
(09:41:46 AM) jmarino: cool
(09:41:56 AM) *jsdelfino:* cool
(09:42:01 AM) jmarino: so to the bullets, I'm currently working on the 
first two
(09:42:11 AM) jmarino: and wiring
(09:42:11 AM) *jsdelfino:* going back to the list, starting with the 
first one... Atomic component implementation extensions, who-when?
(09:42:42 AM) jboynes: there's many things in that bullet :-)
(09:43:03 AM) jmarino: yes. I was working on refactoring the api
(09:43:06 AM) jboynes: I started the builder registry this weekend
(09:43:32 AM) jmarino: the api work is being coordinated with Jeremy's 
refactors
(09:43:59 AM) jboynes: sorry - UPS just came
(09:44:07 AM) *jsdelfino:* so I understand who == jeremy+jim, when do u 
guys think it'll be ready?
(09:44:25 AM) jmarino: we need to size it further. We will have 
something by the dates indicated
(09:44:33 AM) *jsdelfino:* asking mainly because others may depend on 
it, we have to see what fits or not
(09:44:47 AM) jmarino: let's see the dependencies
(09:45:46 AM) jmarino: I think we need to do a time check - perhaps we 
take a pass at the work items and then iterate details on the list?
(09:46:40 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes, I suggest we stop for today at 10am, and 
continue another chat tomorrow
(09:46:47 AM) *haleh:* Jsdelfino, does your question when include 
implementation, test and documentation?
(09:46:54 AM) jmarino: tomorrow the same time will be problematic
(09:47:09 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes, it includes what we need for a release
(09:47:26 AM) *jsdelfino:* let's try to close one bullet at least today :)
(09:47:32 AM) jmarino: I'm assuming all work includes implementation and 
unit/integration tests by default
(09:47:49 AM) haleh: and documentation if required?
(09:47:49 AM) jmarino: no one should be checking stuff in without those :)
(09:48:08 AM) jboynes: I'm doing doco on the wiki - I need feedback though
(09:48:09 AM) jmarino: I would like documentation but that doesn't 
necessarily need to be by the same person
(09:48:09 AM) *jsdelfino:* atomic component implementation extensions is 
in - jim + jeremy working on it - ready by Apr 28th
(09:48:28 AM) jmarino: I plan to doc my stuff though
(09:48:36 AM) *jsdelfino:* I'm thinking that it needs to be ready 
before... since it's one of the base core/pieces
(09:49:00 AM) *jsdelfino:* do u guys agree?
(09:49:17 AM) jmarino: I think we're going to need to make iterations 
but should have a base of stuff in place sometime next week
(09:49:24 AM) jboynes: I think we're iteratively improving
(09:49:46 AM) jboynes: the extensions work now, they're just not easy to do
(09:49:58 AM) jboynes: well, apart from the EP stuff in Tomcat
(09:50:02 AM) jmarino: yea and there are a few refactors that will need 
to take place
(09:50:19 AM) *jsdelfino:* can we get a tentative date?
(09:50:20 AM) haleh: Which item in the worklist is dependent on this?
(09:50:25 AM) jmarino: when I finish the chat, I plan to work on that stuff
(09:50:26 AM) haleh: and do we have enough to get those going?
(09:50:59 AM) jmarino: what do you mean by "and do we have enough to get 
those going"?
(09:51:27 AM) haleh: Will there be enough by next week to get other 
dependent pieces developed on what you are providing?
(09:51:55 AM) jboynes: yes
(09:52:02 AM) jboynes: there's stuff there now
(09:52:11 AM) jmarino: This will also be iterative
(09:52:25 AM) jmarino: there will be things that come up that we haven't 
accounted for
(09:52:36 AM) jmarino: we'll need to address those as the arise
(09:52:39 AM) haleh: Good. let's move to the other bullets and answer 
who, when, dependency?
(09:52:39 AM) jboynes: one of the big changes will be the web services stuff
(09:52:47 AM) jboynes: e.g. for the entry points and the host API
(09:53:01 AM) jmarino: yes that is the biggest area
(09:53:19 AM) jboynes: it would help if we knew what folk needed first
(09:53:22 AM) *jsdelfino:* when do we think the extensibility apis will 
be stable? we're talking about next week, apr 28th is end of next week, 
I think we need enough time with stable core apis to make good progress 
on the pieces that depend on these apis
(09:53:41 AM) jmarino: next week
(09:54:02 AM) jboynes: we don't have to wait for it all to be there
(09:54:05 AM) jmarino: as long as we don't have other distractions :)
(09:54:09 AM) jboynes: it would help if we knew what folk needed first
(09:54:35 AM) jmarino: can we move down the list for a sec and then come 
back to this question?
(09:54:51 AM) haleh: make sense
(09:54:58 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, I think the main pieces depending on 
these apis are going to be the Axis2 and Celtix bindings, and the 
Javascript component type
(09:55:31 AM) jmarino: JavaScript alread sort of works. "Sort of" is not 
because of the api, its other things
(09:55:44 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, next bullet is composite impl. extension, 
in? out? who?
(09:55:47 AM) jmarino: I don't think we'll have a problem there
(09:55:52 AM) jmarino: I'm working on that
(09:56:00 AM) jmarino: that will be the same time as the atomic stuff
(09:56:07 AM) jboynes: I'm done with the merge of system and normal
(09:56:15 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok next week as well then, right?
(09:56:18 AM) jmarino: yea
(09:56:34 AM) jmarino: I'll need some help on the loader part of that
(09:56:39 AM) *jsdelfino:* protocol binding, transport binding in the 
same bucket?
(09:57:08 AM) jmarino: I think Jeremy's point about need to understand 
requirements is key to those two
(09:57:58 AM) *jsdelfino:* so we need ant and dan to express their 
requirements?
(09:58:26 AM) jmarino: that would be helpful, assuming ant is doing axis2
(09:58:28 AM) jboynes: for outbound I think we are there - perhaps just 
some API simplification
(09:58:44 AM) jboynes: for inbound I think we need to define the host 
API for registering an EP
(09:59:17 AM) jboynes: I would suggest the first task is to work on that API
(09:59:52 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, so we want the host api to be there, I 
guess we have an idea of the requirement, basically we don't want to 
hardcode everything in the tomcat host... who do we have here, 
jim/jeremy working on that as well?
(10:00:11 AM) *jsdelfino:* with input from dan/ant in terms of requirements?
(10:00:19 AM) jmarino: I think it is more Jeremy and others with some 
help from me when required
(10:00:48 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, do u think will it be there next week as 
well?
(10:00:48 AM) jboynes: and dan/ant will need to mod the bindings to use 
the API once we define it
(10:01:08 AM) jmarino: I'm going to have to leave soon
(10:01:13 AM) jboynes: I think you need input from dan/ant
(10:01:25 AM) jmarino: can we iterate this detail on the list so we 
cover some other things?
(10:01:47 AM) jboynes: next ...
(10:01:57 AM) *jsdelfino:* sure, which one do u want to move to?
(10:02:09 AM) jboynes: one issue we have is WSDL import
(10:02:22 AM) jmarino: let's talk about the extensions we want to include
(10:02:31 AM) jmarino: I'm assuming Java SCA
(10:02:57 AM) jmarino: another is AXIS, right? I'm assuming WSDL import 
will be related to that
(10:02:58 AM) jboynes: lost me - we support interface.wsdl right?
(10:03:37 AM) *jsdelfino:* support for interface.wsdl is broken right 
now, we have an item about WSDLRegistry at the bottom of the list in 
code cleanup
(10:04:09 AM) *jsdelfino:* this would fit there right? and we have JIRA 
issues for this as well
(10:04:18 AM) *jsdelfino:* it's not specific to the web services binding
(10:04:51 AM) jmarino: k. Can we start with larger categories then and 
work our way down?
(10:05:08 AM) jmarino: "Java", "Axis", "JavaScript"?
(10:05:34 AM) *jsdelfino:* sure, +1 from me, I'd add Celtix
(10:05:50 AM) jmarino: yea
(10:06:03 AM) *jsdelfino:* and we need to have this discussion with Ant 
wr.t jsonrpc, I'm not sure about the status of this one
(10:06:14 AM) jmarino: well, that's where I'm going...
(10:06:26 AM) jboynes: I think "Axis" does not cover it
(10:06:33 AM) jmarino: Axis needs a lot of work, JS and JSON have very 
limited test coverage...
(10:06:39 AM) jboynes: e.g. where does interface.wsdl fit in this?
(10:06:47 AM) *jsdelfino:* it's independent of all this
(10:06:51 AM) jmarino: there is one person on those three things. Does 
not sound good.
(10:06:53 AM) *jsdelfino:* interface.wsdl is a core function
(10:07:05 AM) jboynes: so there's another bucket for "protocol extensions"
(10:07:31 AM) jboynes: or perhaps IDL extensions
(10:08:11 AM) *fbudinsky left the room (quit: " HydraIRC -> 
http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong").*
(10:08:25 AM) *jsdelfino:* u lost me, are u saying we need a section for 
interface definition languages, listing Java and WSDL?
(10:08:29 AM) jboynes: yes
(10:08:40 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok +1 from me
(10:09:02 AM) haleh: makes things clearer. good idea
(10:09:12 AM) *jsdelfino:* I'll update the wiki page with the various 
comments/ideas and commitments :)
(10:09:33 AM) *jsdelfino:* I suggest we end the chat for now and 
schedule another one tomorrow
(10:09:44 AM) jboynes: ok
(10:09:59 AM) jboynes: that's a real bad time for me unless we do early 
e.g. 6:30AM PST
(10:10:00 AM) jmarino: k but not from 8-9 since the
(10:10:06 AM) *jsdelfino:* ant is away, frank as well, I have to run, 
jim as well I guess...
(10:10:06 AM) jmarino: SCA spec call is then
(10:10:07 AM) jboynes: 6:30 PDT
(10:10:22 AM) *mjduftler left the room (quit: Read error: 104 
(Connection reset by peer)).*
(10:10:22 AM) jmarino: no not that early
(10:10:31 AM) haleh: Ant had mentioned an earlier chat time along the 
same line earlier
(10:10:51 AM) jmarino: I wont be awake. If people want to go ahead I can 
miss it
(10:11:15 AM) *jsdelfino:* we need to have all the core committers on 
this chat
(10:11:19 AM) jboynes: I'm out from 8 until noon PDT
(10:11:55 AM) haleh: how about noon?
(10:12:02 AM) *jsdelfino:* I can't do 7:30 - 8am
(10:12:05 AM) jmarino: that's too late for Eur
(10:12:20 AM) jmarino: I was going to suggest 7-7.30
(10:12:35 AM) *jsdelfino:* noon works for me, ant needs to decide if 8pm 
is ok for him
(10:12:36 AM) jmarino: I don't think we're going to get much done in 30 mins
(10:12:47 AM) jmarino: if it works for him that is fine for me
(10:12:47 AM) *mjduftler [/n=duftler@yktgi01e0-s5.watson.ibm.com/] 
entered the room.*
(10:12:59 AM) *jsdelfino:* we could also do late evening Pacific time, 
early morning in Europe
(10:13:17 AM) jmarino: yea but then we loose a day. Perhaps we just ask him?
(10:13:39 AM) *jsdelfino:* noon tomorrow - 8pm UK time?
(10:13:46 AM) jboynes: +1
(10:13:49 AM) *jsdelfino:* +1
(10:13:59 AM) jmarino: +1
(10:14:30 AM) haleh: can you send a mail on mailing list once it is 
decided to make sure everyone knows?
(10:14:43 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, I'll send several emails to the list
(10:14:47 AM) *jsdelfino:* record of this chat
(10:14:51 AM) *jsdelfino:* proposal for the next one
(10:15:06 AM) haleh: thank you
(10:15:09 AM) *jsdelfino:* can people please complete the empty sections 
on the wiki page
(10:15:12 AM) jboynes: we should also keep this channel open
(10:15:20 AM) *jsdelfino:* if they're wiki allergic, just send me the 
text I'll add it
(10:15:35 AM) jboynes: we can chat here informally any time
(10:16:06 AM) *jsdelfino:* yes good idea
(10:16:22 AM) *jsdelfino:* I'm usually on this channel when I'm online
(10:16:38 AM) jmarino: I may have difficutly due to firewall but I'm 
working on changing our corporate policy
(10:18:30 AM) jmarino: k ciao
(10:18:37 AM) *jsdelfino:* ok, so we close that discussion for today, 
will resume tomorrow, thank you all

-- 
Jean-Sebastien