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Posted to user@forrest.apache.org by chemosh <ch...@gmx.de> on 2006/07/23 15:52:53 UTC
is forrest the right choice?
Hello!
If this is not the right place to ask my question I apologize in advance.
Currently I`m trying to decide if forrest is the correct choice to
fulfill my needs and I hope you can answer that or at least say if you
think that forrest can do what I want it to do.
I`m working as an student employee at a university and as you can image
there is a lot paperwork do to.The normal practice here is to fill out
word documents with some macros then bring them, or in some cases send
them via email to the next department where the document is reviewed,
feedback given, etc.......altogether very ineffective.
My job now is to provide a web-based solution where a user can fill out
and edit a form and then when he is finished it is send to the right
persons which can review it, give feedfack, etc......everything via the
website. So until everything is correct no more printing, etc should be
necessary.
I want the forms to be created via templates so that a new form can
easily be adapted and used.
So in the end the user should be able to view every document they ever
created. Easily create and edit new documents and export them to various
formats and it should be quite easy to integrate new forms via templates. ;)
So to get to my question again, can this be done with the help of
forrest as basic "framework" for the webapp or do you think that another
framework would be better suited for the job?
Greetings,
Kai
Re: is forrest the right choice?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
chemosh wrote:
> Thank you for your answer.
>
> I thought about a CMS system but I believe a CMS is also not the kind of
> app I`m searching because it is more about the document itself and that
> everybody can edit it.
>
> So, I noticed I stressed the interactivity a little bit to much in my
> previous explanation.
> The primary focus is more on the template form creation.
Forrest is not a webapplication framework it is a publishing framework.
It does not have forms handling capabilities. Well, technically speaking
it does, but only by virtue of being built on Cocoon, my recomendation
stands.
I recomended Daisy as it has pretty good forms handling capabilities
built in. Just name the fields you want in a document and that's it.
I think you described your use case well the first time, I still stick
to my recomendation to use a web app framework, and to consider a CMS
built on top of that framework (I see your point that your workflow may
be sufficiently different to standard CMS workflow to make that a waste
of time, but Forrest is still not a web app framework).
Ross
Re: is forrest the right choice?
Posted by chemosh <ch...@gmx.de>.
Ok, thank you both for your answers and patience, I will then take a
look at daisy and lenya.
Kai
RE: is forrest the right choice?
Posted by "Gav...." <br...@brightontown.com.au>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chemosh [mailto:chemosh@gmx.de]
> Sent: Monday, 24 July 2006 6:25 PM
> To: user@forrest.apache.org
> Subject: Re: is forrest the right choice?
>
> Thank you for your answer.
>
> I thought about a CMS system but I believe a CMS is also not the kind of
> app I`m searching because it is more about the document itself and that
> everybody can edit it.
>
> So, I noticed I stressed the interactivity a little bit to much in my
> previous explanation.
> The primary focus is more on the template form creation. It is not
> about documents like research papers where more person contribute but
> moreover documents describing processes within the university.
> So one
> persons fills out an official form describing what he wants to do and
> then all persons and positions which are involved can see this form.
In Lenya this would be the Author/Creator who creates the document and need
Not have permissions to Publish.
> Ultimately the data security official has to give its "ok" according to
> what he can see in the filled out document and the described process can
> be used.
In Lenya this could be the Publisher who has writes to publish the document
If it passes criteria, or he/she can edit it, mark comments whatever and not
Publish it (therefore rejecting it) until it is submitted correctly.
> And if the request is rejected by the data security official the creator
> should have the possibility to edit his won document according to the
> reason why it was rejected.
>
> I hope this makes it more clear what I`m trying to develop.
>
>
> Sorry, for asking twice but I really want to be sure that Forrest is not
> what I`m searching.
Lenya has lots of layers for permissions based authoring, Forrest itself
does not but I suppose you can use it in a way that people create/edit
Xml documents and only a Publisher (Data Security Offical) can actually
Deploy the changes to a server.
Otherwise consider looking at Ross' suggestion of Daisy - which I know
Absolutely nothing about but would listen to judgement if he says it
Is right for you.
Gav...
>
> Kai
>
> Ross Gardler schrieb:
> > Short answer - no, Forest is not suitable for your use case.
> >
> > Forrest is an XML publishing framework, it is not a Content Management
> > System.
> >
> > Since Forrest is built on top of Cocoon, a web application framework,
> > you could make it do all the things you want, but you would be much
> > better adopting a framework already suitable for the purpose. I.e. go
> > directly to Cocoon or take a look at the two Cocoon based CMS systems:
> >
> > http://lenya.apache.org
> > http://www.cocoondev.org/daisy
> >
> > Personally I think Daisy is better suited to your needs. Lenya is a
> > CMS framework and would need much more work to get o the stage you
> > want (although gives you more flexibility in the long term). Daisy is
> > pretty much ready for your needs now.
> >
> > The downside of daisy is that it does not store the structured part of
> > your data in a relational database and so querying a large data set
> > will be inefficient. You can modify it to do this, but if you have a
> > large data set you may be better considering Lenya since, as I say, it
> > is a framework designed for such customisation.
> >
> > Of course there are plenty of other solutions you could go for that do
> > not use Cocoon as the framework, Apache alone has about a fair few
> > webapp framework projects.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > chemosh wrote:
> >> Hello!
> >>
> >> If this is not the right place to ask my question I apologize in
> >> advance.
> >>
> >> Currently I`m trying to decide if forrest is the correct choice to
> >> fulfill my needs and I hope you can answer that or at least say if
> >> you think that forrest can do what I want it to do.
> >>
> >> I`m working as an student employee at a university and as you can
> >> image there is a lot paperwork do to.The normal practice here is to
> >> fill out word documents with some macros then bring them, or in some
> >> cases send them via email to the next department where the document
> >> is reviewed, feedback given, etc.......altogether very ineffective.
> >>
> >> My job now is to provide a web-based solution where a user can fill
> >> out and edit a form and then when he is finished it is send to the
> >> right persons which can review it, give feedfack, etc......everything
> >> via the website. So until everything is correct no more printing, etc
> >> should be necessary.
> >> I want the forms to be created via templates so that a new form can
> >> easily be adapted and used.
> >>
> >> So in the end the user should be able to view every document they
> >> ever created. Easily create and edit new documents and export them to
> >> various formats and it should be quite easy to integrate new forms
> >> via templates. ;)
> >>
> >> So to get to my question again, can this be done with the help of
> >> forrest as basic "framework" for the webapp or do you think that
> >> another framework would be better suited for the job?
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Kai
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006
Re: is forrest the right choice?
Posted by chemosh <ch...@gmx.de>.
Thank you for your answer.
I thought about a CMS system but I believe a CMS is also not the kind of
app I`m searching because it is more about the document itself and that
everybody can edit it.
So, I noticed I stressed the interactivity a little bit to much in my
previous explanation.
The primary focus is more on the template form creation. It is not
about documents like research papers where more person contribute but
moreover documents describing processes within the university. So one
persons fills out an official form describing what he wants to do and
then all persons and positions which are involved can see this form.
Ultimately the data security official has to give its "ok" according to
what he can see in the filled out document and the described process can
be used.
And if the request is rejected by the data security official the creator
should have the possibility to edit his won document according to the
reason why it was rejected.
I hope this makes it more clear what I`m trying to develop.
Sorry, for asking twice but I really want to be sure that Forrest is not
what I`m searching.
Kai
Ross Gardler schrieb:
> Short answer - no, Forest is not suitable for your use case.
>
> Forrest is an XML publishing framework, it is not a Content Management
> System.
>
> Since Forrest is built on top of Cocoon, a web application framework,
> you could make it do all the things you want, but you would be much
> better adopting a framework already suitable for the purpose. I.e. go
> directly to Cocoon or take a look at the two Cocoon based CMS systems:
>
> http://lenya.apache.org
> http://www.cocoondev.org/daisy
>
> Personally I think Daisy is better suited to your needs. Lenya is a
> CMS framework and would need much more work to get o the stage you
> want (although gives you more flexibility in the long term). Daisy is
> pretty much ready for your needs now.
>
> The downside of daisy is that it does not store the structured part of
> your data in a relational database and so querying a large data set
> will be inefficient. You can modify it to do this, but if you have a
> large data set you may be better considering Lenya since, as I say, it
> is a framework designed for such customisation.
>
> Of course there are plenty of other solutions you could go for that do
> not use Cocoon as the framework, Apache alone has about a fair few
> webapp framework projects.
>
> Ross
>
> chemosh wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> If this is not the right place to ask my question I apologize in
>> advance.
>>
>> Currently I`m trying to decide if forrest is the correct choice to
>> fulfill my needs and I hope you can answer that or at least say if
>> you think that forrest can do what I want it to do.
>>
>> I`m working as an student employee at a university and as you can
>> image there is a lot paperwork do to.The normal practice here is to
>> fill out word documents with some macros then bring them, or in some
>> cases send them via email to the next department where the document
>> is reviewed, feedback given, etc.......altogether very ineffective.
>>
>> My job now is to provide a web-based solution where a user can fill
>> out and edit a form and then when he is finished it is send to the
>> right persons which can review it, give feedfack, etc......everything
>> via the website. So until everything is correct no more printing, etc
>> should be necessary.
>> I want the forms to be created via templates so that a new form can
>> easily be adapted and used.
>>
>> So in the end the user should be able to view every document they
>> ever created. Easily create and edit new documents and export them to
>> various formats and it should be quite easy to integrate new forms
>> via templates. ;)
>>
>> So to get to my question again, can this be done with the help of
>> forrest as basic "framework" for the webapp or do you think that
>> another framework would be better suited for the job?
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Kai
>>
>>
>
>
Re: is forrest the right choice?
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Short answer - no, Forest is not suitable for your use case.
Forrest is an XML publishing framework, it is not a Content Management
System.
Since Forrest is built on top of Cocoon, a web application framework,
you could make it do all the things you want, but you would be much
better adopting a framework already suitable for the purpose. I.e. go
directly to Cocoon or take a look at the two Cocoon based CMS systems:
http://lenya.apache.org
http://www.cocoondev.org/daisy
Personally I think Daisy is better suited to your needs. Lenya is a CMS
framework and would need much more work to get o the stage you want
(although gives you more flexibility in the long term). Daisy is pretty
much ready for your needs now.
The downside of daisy is that it does not store the structured part of
your data in a relational database and so querying a large data set will
be inefficient. You can modify it to do this, but if you have a large
data set you may be better considering Lenya since, as I say, it is a
framework designed for such customisation.
Of course there are plenty of other solutions you could go for that do
not use Cocoon as the framework, Apache alone has about a fair few
webapp framework projects.
Ross
chemosh wrote:
> Hello!
>
> If this is not the right place to ask my question I apologize in advance.
>
> Currently I`m trying to decide if forrest is the correct choice to
> fulfill my needs and I hope you can answer that or at least say if you
> think that forrest can do what I want it to do.
>
> I`m working as an student employee at a university and as you can image
> there is a lot paperwork do to.The normal practice here is to fill out
> word documents with some macros then bring them, or in some cases send
> them via email to the next department where the document is reviewed,
> feedback given, etc.......altogether very ineffective.
>
> My job now is to provide a web-based solution where a user can fill out
> and edit a form and then when he is finished it is send to the right
> persons which can review it, give feedfack, etc......everything via the
> website. So until everything is correct no more printing, etc should be
> necessary.
> I want the forms to be created via templates so that a new form can
> easily be adapted and used.
>
> So in the end the user should be able to view every document they ever
> created. Easily create and edit new documents and export them to various
> formats and it should be quite easy to integrate new forms via
> templates. ;)
>
> So to get to my question again, can this be done with the help of
> forrest as basic "framework" for the webapp or do you think that another
> framework would be better suited for the job?
>
> Greetings,
> Kai
>
>