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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org> on 2003/08/28 18:09:18 UTC
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>
> we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different
> technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. It
> is in our interest, that we contribute this project with about 200.000
> Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
> The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source
> application.
> We've already running many websites with the CMS', but it was one of the
> major interests of our initial customer, that we will open the source
> for everyone.
This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that it's "just"
because of a customer of yours that you're considering it? I'm honestly
curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
> So let me know how I can show you how powerful this project is and how I
> can convince you to become the CMS a subproject of one of your projects.
Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this morning,
but it's always unavailable.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
> http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
It is broken.
Andreas
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
> http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
It is broken.
Andreas
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AW: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > Because of ongoing server problems you can test the
> Application under:
> > http://213.252.141.109/admin/ To get access to the Admin Tool try
> > following:
> > User: BT
> > Passwd: test
>
> I tried that but when I tried to log in using the Java
> application I got an error message saying "null".
Sorry, my fault.
Username is: BL
Password: test
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Because of ongoing server problems you can test the Application under:
> http://213.252.141.109/admin/
> To get access to the Admin Tool try following:
> User: BT
> Passwd: test
I tried that but when I tried to log in using the Java application I got an
error message saying "null".
Andreas
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Re: !AW: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart
- based CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>>It's pretty hard, however, to
>>judge your software based on the resources we can see from here (a
>>german web site and a webstart admin tool which requires a
>>password). So
>
>
> Yes, you're right, the Website is german. Thats why I just want to start
> with the "process" and do the remaining stuff for that donation in that
> time.
Unfortunately (well, for you, not for Apache :-)) it doesn't work like
this with the ASF. If you carefully read all the project guidelines and
incubation proposals you'll see that to get into Apache you have to
follow a very strict set of requirements in terms of community first and
code base next (but community is what really matters).
While I understand that it might sound harsh to you (the typical
reaction is like "what the heck, I'm givin my cool stuff away and those
guys are being picky?"), this is one of the main reasons for Apache to
continue serving just the best of breed in Open Source software. If
you'll be patient enough, I'm sure you'll learn to appreciate the
"Apache Way".
> Because of ongoing server problems you can test the Application under:
> http://213.252.141.109/admin/
> To get access to the Admin Tool try following:
> User: BT
> Passwd: test
Hmmm... I'm getting an 'Error during logon: "null"' which doesn't seem
much promising. :-/
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
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!AW: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > Yes, that's possible. But however, my main focus is to code this
> > project into the future. So it would be really nice to become an
> > Apache (Sub-)Project and find some really interested contributors.
>
> I, for one, am very interested in CMS (though I have to say
> that I don't
> believe J2EE and CMS mix really well).
Why Do you think so? :)
It was not easy but I think the structure is pretty good. (For judge
this it might be better to see the code or a "big picture")
> It's pretty hard, however, to
> judge your software based on the resources we can see from here (a
> german web site and a webstart admin tool which requires a
> password). So
Yes, you're right, the Website is german. Thats why I just want to start
with the "process" and do the remaining stuff for that donation in that
time.
Because of ongoing server problems you can test the Application under:
http://213.252.141.109/admin/
To get access to the Admin Tool try following:
User: BT
Passwd: test
> Count on me at least for an evaluation: I can't help much
> since I'm just
> an ASF committer and not a member, but I'll be happy anyway
> to see if I
> can do anything useful.
Yes, that you very much, this sounds pretty good!
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
>>Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
>>warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might
>>be longer
>>than you would expect.
>
>
> Yes, that's possible. But however, my main focus is to code this project
> into the future. So it would be really nice to become an Apache
> (Sub-)Project and find some really interested contributors.
I, for one, am very interested in CMS (though I have to say that I don't
believe J2EE and CMS mix really well). It's pretty hard, however, to
judge your software based on the resources we can see from here (a
german web site and a webstart admin tool which requires a password). So
far it sure looks interesting, but my friendly advice would be to open
it up as soon as possible (either on SourceForge or on your own
infrastructure) and see if you can get some external contribution.
Count on me at least for an evaluation: I can't help much since I'm just
an ASF committer and not a member, but I'll be happy anyway to see if I
can do anything useful.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
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AW: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a
> little bit of
> > "we want to give the community something back", something of
> > "reputation", some interest of good ideas of other
> developers and so
> > on.
>
> The primary work area for incubating ASF projects should be the
> community around a project. So in general, it is deemed a
Yes, you're right. But isn't it also important to get a good idea behind
and a good codebase? :)
> In this particular case, this would mean you should be thinking about
> how to attract new developers right now. They won't come
> automagically
Ok, currently we're three developers.
> Also, I believe there is an inverse relationship
> between the size of a given codebase, and the number of possible
> contributors it can attract.
> For large codebases, there might be too
> much to learn, and too many things already been decided upon, that
> potential new contributors can be scared away, if the
> incubating project
> doesn't spend enough time on these critical aspects.
Might be - but it was still designed to change a lot in future, there
are several modules who can be changed and so on. And also there is a
lot to do for the next major release - I just wanted to code a fully
plugin functionality and therefor it has to be changed about 30% of the
existing code as well. I think there is a lot to change, a lot of new
modules possible and also a lot to do and everybody who is interested in
J2EE and Webapplications will be interested in contributing.
Maybe it is only important to take a look at it - it is really not
compareable with existing systems based on web-administration.
I think it is a little bit like James or Eclipse, there is a lot of
stuff already done, but this is only the first step to start on.
My Idea is to use this step and build everything on you can imagine.
Currently Cocoon is used for rendering, but it is so modular that you
also can render directly in static HTML Files or something else. If you
know Interwoven Teamsite - right like this - but much more powerful.
So I would be really happy to show it anybody who might have interest
and to enthuse him to help me build on it.
And the next aspect, it uses as much Apache Software as you can get :)
So currently it uses Axis, Cocoon, Xerces, Xalan, Commons, Log4J, Ant,
... :)
> Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
> warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might
> be longer
> than you would expect.
Yes, that's possible. But however, my main focus is to code this project
into the future. So it would be really nice to become an Apache
(Sub-)Project and find some really interested contributors.
Regards,
Sascha
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Re: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
> No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
> "we want to give the community something back", something of
> "reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
The primary work area for incubating ASF projects should be the
community around a project. So in general, it is deemed a good practice
if the candidate incubating project starts adapting ASF project
guidelines prior to entering incubation.
In this particular case, this would mean you should be thinking about
how to attract new developers right now. They won't come automagically
by moving into the ASF incubator, if there's isn't a sense of
meritocracy already. Also, I believe there is an inverse relationship
between the size of a given codebase, and the number of possible
contributors it can attract. For large codebases, there might be too
much to learn, and too many things already been decided upon, that
potential new contributors can be scared away, if the incubating project
doesn't spend enough time on these critical aspects.
Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might be longer
than you would expect.
Cheers,
</Steven>
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Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
> Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
> http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
It is broken.
Andreas
Re: AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based
CMS
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote:
> No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
> "we want to give the community something back", something of
> "reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
The primary work area for incubating ASF projects should be the
community around a project. So in general, it is deemed a good practice
if the candidate incubating project starts adapting ASF project
guidelines prior to entering incubation.
In this particular case, this would mean you should be thinking about
how to attract new developers right now. They won't come automagically
by moving into the ASF incubator, if there's isn't a sense of
meritocracy already. Also, I believe there is an inverse relationship
between the size of a given codebase, and the number of possible
contributors it can attract. For large codebases, there might be too
much to learn, and too many things already been decided upon, that
potential new contributors can be scared away, if the incubating project
doesn't spend enough time on these critical aspects.
Anyway, even though I might sound a bit pessimistic, I just wanted to
warn you that the process of acceptance and incubation might be longer
than you would expect.
Cheers,
</Steven>
AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on
> > different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client
> > Application. It is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> > with about 200.000 Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
>
> 200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
Yes, but with the normal quotes. Just the work of one year :)
> > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed
> > source application. We've already running many websites
> with the CMS',
> > but it was one of the major interests of our initial
> customer, that we
> > will open the source for everyone.
>
> This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
> company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that
> it's "just"
> because of a customer of yours that you're considering it?
> I'm honestly
> curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
"we want to give the community something back", something of
"reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
> Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this
> morning,
> but it's always unavailable.
Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
Regards,
Sascha
AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on
> > different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client
> > Application. It is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> > with about 200.000 Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
>
> 200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
Yes, but with the normal quotes. Just the work of one year :)
> > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed
> > source application. We've already running many websites
> with the CMS',
> > but it was one of the major interests of our initial
> customer, that we
> > will open the source for everyone.
>
> This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
> company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that
> it's "just"
> because of a customer of yours that you're considering it?
> I'm honestly
> curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
"we want to give the community something back", something of
"reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
> Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this
> morning,
> but it's always unavailable.
Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
Regards,
Sascha
AW: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
Posted by Sascha-Matthias Kulawik <s....@juwimm.com>.
> > we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on
> > different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client
> > Application. It is in our interest, that we contribute this project
> > with about 200.000 Lines of Code to the Apache Foundation.
>
> 200.000? Impressive, I just checked and Cocoon is 350.000...
Yes, but with the normal quotes. Just the work of one year :)
> > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed
> > source application. We've already running many websites
> with the CMS',
> > but it was one of the major interests of our initial
> customer, that we
> > will open the source for everyone.
>
> This is interesting, could you elaborate? Should I gather that your
> company doesn't have an interest to open source it and that
> it's "just"
> because of a customer of yours that you're considering it?
> I'm honestly
> curious, I have a deep personal interest in Open Sourcing dynamics.
No, it is also in our interest, you're right :) It is a little bit of
"we want to give the community something back", something of
"reputation", some interest of good ideas of other developers and so on.
> Putting the site online would help. :-) I'm trying since this
> morning,
> but it's always unavailable.
Sorry, this was a server error - it is just fixed now:
http://conquest.juwimm.net/cocoon/cms/conquest/conquest
Regards,
Sascha
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