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Posted to community@apache.org by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> on 2003/07/09 03:33:05 UTC
Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9
==========================
Date: May-June 2003
Url: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
It's been another good year at the JavaWorld Tools Awards [1] for
Apache.
Xerces2 Java Parser 2.4 from the Apache XML Project won the Best
Java-XML Tool award and Apache Ant 1.5 developed by the Apache Ant
Project won the Most Useful Java Community-Developed Technology. Good
work!
W3C has issued SOAP 1.2 as a recommendation. This means that the SOAP
1.2 specification is now (effectively) a web standard. Apache software
related to SOAP can be found in the Web Services and XML projects. The
press release is now available online [3].
This newsletter is the second wiki-built newsletter. See the
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaNewsletterDrafts
for more details. Also, I sent the announcements to all the developers'
list in jakarta. It was a bit annoying I suppose, however, this
newsletter contains a lot of news from various projects, including
Jakarta Related Projects.
Note:
Apache Ant, Avalon, James, Maven, Incubator, DB (OJB/TORQUE) are not
subprojects under Apache Jakarta any longer, however, we really
appreciate to hear the news from the Jakarta Related Projects.
I strongly hope/believe this "newsletter" would be able to become one
of the *liaison* for the various projects in ASF.
I want to thank those who contributed and hope that you enjoy the read.
If you would like to comment further on any of the highlighted
discussions then please do so on the appropriate list [4],
if you want to comment on the newsletter itself then please point your
comments to general@jakarta.apache.org with [NEWSLETTER] prefixed
subject.
[1] - http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-06-2003/jw-0609-eca.html
[2] - http://xml.apache.org/xerces2-j/index.html
[3] - http://www.w3.org/2003/06/soap12-pressrelease
[4] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata
Special Thanks: Robert Burrel Donkin
Contents
--------
Jakarta General
Jakarta Commons General
Jakarta Commons EL
Jakarta Commons FileUpload
Jakarta Commons DBCP
Jakarta Commons HttpClient
Jakarta Commons Lang
Jakarta Commons Math
Jakarta Jetspeed
Jakarta JMeter
Jakarta Log4j
Jakarta Lucene
Jakarta Poi
Jakarta Struts
Jakarta Tapestry
Jakarta Tomcat
Jakarta Turbine
Jakarta Velocity
Apache Ant Project
Apache Avalon Fortress
Apache DB OJB
Apache Httpd WebServer Project
Apache James Project
New Committers
Products avaliable as of the end of June, 2003
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta General
===============
" Ideas, suggestions, and comments on the overall Jakarta project "
Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata
Discussions on general mailing list have been fairly light-weight these
2 months. The Main page of the Jakarta Site has been updated in order to
arrange the "Jakarta-Related" projects properly. Now, Jakarta website
has renewed to become one of the most powerful "Java-Portal" sites. The
JavaOne Conference was held in June, and there seemed many atendees from
jakarta participants.
As Sun Microsystems set up the http://java.net/ site, there was alot of
talk surrounding this issue.
Jakarta Tapestry, which had been longed to become a Top Project in
Jakarta, finally joined in the Jakarta Umbrella in May. The first
proposal was made at General Mailing List in October last year by Howard
M. Lewis Ship, so it took about a half year. We look forward to the
Tapestry Team playing a more active part in Jakarta.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Commons General
=======================
" creating and maintaining reusable Java components "
Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin, Tetsuya Kitahata
An OnJava Article [1] covering the components in Jakarta Commons [2]
has been published. If you've ever wondered about what's all these
components do, this is a good place to start. Due to the diverse nature
of the commons group, this section has been split up to make it easier
to pick out the topics of interest. These months' stories come from the
following:
[1] - http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/06/25/commons.html
[2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/
Jakarta Commons EL
==================
Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin
The Commons Team is pleased to announce the 1.0 release of commons-EL.
EL is the JSP 2.0 Expression Language Interpreter from Apache
For more information see the EL component home page [1].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/el.html
Jakarta Commons FileUpload
==========================
Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin
The Commons Team is pleased to announce the long-awaited release of
commons-fileupload 1.0. Good work Martin!
For more information see the FileUpload component home page [1].
Thanks to Arnaud Vandyck FileUpload now is available as a Debian
Package [2].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/fileupload/
[2] - http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/libcommons-fileupload-java.html
Jakarta Commons DBCP
====================
Editor: Serge Knystautas
There has been renewed interest in DBCP, which has sparked a
requirements discussion. The list of bugs and tasks for the next release
are becoming clear, as well as how to extend DBCP moving forward. We
hope to have a good bug fix in the next month or two, and then have a
major release later this year.
For more information see the DBCP component home page [1].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/dbcp/
Jakarta Commons HttpClient
==========================
Editor: Michael Becke
HttpClient has continued to be busy. 2.0 beta 2 was released July 2 and
a final 2.0 version should follow shortly.
2.0 branch will be created in early July so that 2.1 development can
begin. The plan for 2.1 is coming together (2.1 release plan thread [1])
and will provide some significant refinement of the 2.0 release.
Adrian Sutton was warmly welcomed into the committer team in early June
and has continued to be a valuable member of the HttpClient community.
For more information please see the HttpClient component home page [2].
[1] - http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=commons-httpclient-dev@jakarta.apache.org&by=thread&from=367820
[2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient/
Jakarta Commons Lang
====================
Editor: Robert Burrel Donkin
The lang team has been very busy pushing towards the 2.0 release [1].
The new 2.0 release should be cut very soon now (Release of Commons Lang
2.0 / take 2 [2]).
For more information, see the Commons-Lang website [3].
[1] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-commons-dev&m=105729197700488&w=2
[2] - http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-commons-dev&m=105744550726520&w=2
[3] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/lang/
Jakarta Commons Math
====================
Editor: Phil Steitz
Commons-math is a new Commons Sandbox component. The goal is a small,
self-contained, ASL-licensed library of utilities addressing common
math/stat programming problems that can't be solved directly using the
JDK or the extensions in commons-lang.
Here is a sample of the kinds of things supported by the initial code
base:
* Computing means, variances and other summary statistics for a list of
numbers
* Fitting a line to a set of data points using linear regression
* Solving equations involving real-valued functions (i.e. root-finding)
* Performing statistical significance tests
* Solving systems of linear equations
* Generating random numbers with more restrictions (e.g distribution,
range) than what is possible using the JDK
* Generating random samples and/or datasets that are "like" the data in
an input file
* Finding a smooth curve that passes through a collection of points
(interpolation)
* Miscellaneous mathematical functions such as factorials and binomial
coefficients
Suggestions for new components or enhancements to existing
functionality are always welcome!
For more info, see the Commons-Math website [1].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/math/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Jetspeed
================
" user customizable Java Enterprise Information Portal, using Java and
XML and based on Turbine framework "
Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata
Jakarta Jetspeed Team realeased the Jetspeed 1.4 Beta 4 on 27 April
2003, and made a lot of changes after the Beta 4 Release [1]. Now, our
team is planning to release the official final release 1.4, long overdue
however, around the end of July or thereabouts.
Jakarta Jetspeed has grown in recognition and influence as an
internationalizable portal site system. The Jakarta Jetspeed Team
welcomes any input, feedback or comments.
For more information, see the Jakarta Jetspeed website [2].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/jetspeed/site/changes.html
[2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/jetspeed/site/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Jmeter
==============
" Pure Java desktop application designed to load test functional
behavior and measure performance "
Editor:
JMeter has grown quickly in the past year, with new releases coming out
about every 6 months. Right now, JMeter 1.9 is nearing completion (see
the JMeter-1.9RC2 download page [5]). JMeter has become a full-fledged
client/server testing tool, useful for both stress testing and
functional testing of web apps, databases, ftp, soap services, ldap, and
more.
In the past few months, several articles have been written about
JMeter:
* Load Testing your Applications with Apache JMeter - By Keld H. Hansen
2003-02-05 - [1]
* Using JMeter - By Budi Kurniawan 2003-01-15 - [2]
* Regression Testing With JMeter - [3]
* AN OVERVIEW OF LOAD TEST TOOLS - By J. BURET and N. DROZE 2003-02-27
- [4]
For more information, visit our pages / Jakarta JMeter Homepage [5].
[1] - http://javaboutique.internet.com/tutorials/JMeter/
[2] - http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/01/15/jmeter.html
[3] - http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/bommarito20030610.php3
[4] - http://clif.forge.objectweb.org/load_tools_overview.pdf
[5] - http://jakarta.apache.org/jmeter/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Log4j
=============
" Log4j allows developers to control which log statements are output
with arbitrary granularity "
Editor: Mark Womack, Ceki Gulcu
Scott Deboy and Paul Smith have been enthusiastically voted in as log4j
committers. They have done extensive work on improving chainsaw and
other parts of log4j. In relation with this vote, Mark Womack stated:
With all of our new contributors, I think it is a validation of the
sandbox that we started. It is an excellent way to let people
contribute, get familiar with the environment, process, etc. And
then when merit is demonstrated, granting appropriate committer
access. I like that we set up that process. I think it has really
rejuvenated and helped the log4j development community, affecting my
previous commentaries. I hope it continues and that more people out
there will take advantage of it, start the process for themselves,
and get involved at whatever level they can/want.
Chainsaw v2 has been moved out of the sandbox into log4j main.
Certain operations on Loggers are now made using ReaderWriterLocks
which allows simultaneous read operations but only one write operation.
This should significantly improve logging throughput in heavily loaded
server environments.
Rolling can now be triggered based on time or size as was already the
case in log4j 1.2. However, the new architecture allows for much more
variation in the timing of the rollover and the actions taken during
rollover (i.e on the fly compression, renaming, moving). The new
architecture was suggested a long time ago by James P. Cakalic. A
similar design can be found in the Avalon Logkit.
We have started to closely collaborate with the Avalon project in order
to better cater for their needs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Lucene
==============
" Lucene provides A high-performance, full-featured text search engine "
Editor: Otis Gospodnetic
Lucene is still at version 1.3 RC1. Last month a Lucene JSP taglib [1]
was contributed to the Lucene project.
A new article entitled "Parsing, indexing, and searching XML with
Digester and Lucene" [2] was published by IBM developerWorks.
The LARM web crawler project has moved from the Lucene Sandbox to
SourceForge [3].
[1] - http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-lucene-sandbox/contributions/taglib/
[2] - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-lucene/
[3] - http://larm.sourceforge.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Poi
===========
" APIs for manipulating various file formats based upon Microsoft's OLE
2 Compound Document format "
Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata
We updated the build system from Crysalys Centipede to XML-Forrest.
Thanks to all the contributors to XML-Forrest. We are preparing the
release of the Poi 2.0-pre2 within a few days. Poi TNEF -- Java
implementation for MS-TNEF mail extraction -- will join to the Poi Team
contributed by Amichai Rothman (TNEF [1]). HDF (Horrible Document Format,
Microsoft Word compatible format reader/writer), inactive for some time,
has become active again due to our excellend developers.
The other prominent news in the last 2 months:
* EXTSST record implemented
* Cloning, Shifting, and Merging Updates (Cloning Fixes, Merged Region
Fixes, Shift Rows Enhancement)
* POI 2.0-pre1 Released
* Shared Formulas now Supported
* Added GreaterEqual(>=), LessEqual(<=) and NotEqual(<>) to Formula
Parser
* Added GreaterThan(>) and LessThan(<) functionality to formulas
POI Build System Updated
* font names can now be null
For more information, see the Jakarta-Poi website [2] and Poi-News [3].
[1] - http://www.freeutils.net/source/jtnef/
[2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
[3] - http://nagoya.apache.org/poi/news/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Struts
==============
" A model-view-controller framework for constructing web applications
with servlets and JavaServer Pages "
Editor: Tetsuya Kitahata
The Struts team is proud, and extremely pleased, to announce the Final
release of Struts 1.1. This release includes significant new
functionality, as well as umerous bug fixes which were reported against
the previous release, and supersedes the earlier 1.0.2 version as the
latest official release of Struts from the Apache Software Foundation.
Both source [1] and binary [2] distributions, including a minimal
binary distribution, are available through the usual Apache mirror sites.
Please remember to verify the signatures of the distribution using the
keys found on the main Apache web site when downloading from a mirror.
Also, as of June 25, 2003, there were 2744 subscribers to STRUTS-USER
(plus an unknown number who read it through newsfeed mirrors). It has
come to be the largest user mailing list at Jakarta, exceeding
TOMCAT-USER that has about 2400 subscribers.
For more information, see the Struts web site [3].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/sourceindex.cgi
[2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.cgi
[3] - http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Tapestry
================
" Tapestry provides web framework which seeks to find greater harmony
between web designers and developers "
Editor: Howard M. Lewis Ship
The Jakarta Tapestry team is tickled pink by the ascension of Tapestry
to a full Jakarta sub-project [1]. The first beta release of Tapestry
has been released [2]. Tapestry distributions are now properly mirrored
(now more SourceForge downloads!). A second beta is expected soon.
The Tapestry user list currently stands at 250 subscribers (as of July
5, 2003).
Christian Sell has written an article [3] comparing the WebWork and
Tapestry frameworks. The article was published in the German language
magazine Javamagazin [3]. The text of the article is available (in
German) at [4], and its very favorable to Tapestry. Tapestry continues
to gain mind-share.
Editor: Richard Lewis-Shell
May saw Tapestry accepted as a full-fledged Jakarta project [1] - the
incubator is behind us! Since then Tapestry has continued to thrive,
making solid progress towards the first release under the Jakarta banner
- 3.0. A feature complete beta-1, and a quick followup beta-1a, have
been released [2], with beta-2 imminent. beta-2 will feature a number of
bug fixes, and small enhancements over beta-1a, and Mind Bridge's
converted code enhancer from BCEL to Javassist. Attention is starting to
turn to 3.1 with a refactoring to Howard Lewis Ship's HiveMind [5]
sandbox project on the cards.
In related news, Geoff Longman has made an early version of Spindle [6]
available (the Eclipse IDE plugin for Tapestry) for Tapestry 3 looking
quite unlike previous versions of Spindle, but showing great potential.
For more information, see the Jakarta Tapestry website [7].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#20030526.1
[2] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#20030602.1
[3] - http://www.javamagazin.de/
[4] - http://www.dynabean.de/article/Typologie.html
[5] - http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/hivemind/
[6] - http://spindle.sourceforge.net/
[7] - http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Tomcat
==============
" Tomcat is the official Reference Implementation of the Servlet 2.* and
JavaServer Pages 1.* technologies "
Editor: Remy Maucherat
The Tomcat team is hard working on Tomcat 5, with the recent release of
Tomcat 5.0.3, and the upcoming Tomcat 5.0.4 release (another alpha). The
quality of Tomcat 5.0.3 seems to be quite high for an alpha (which isn't
that surprising given it is a direct evolution of the Tomcat 4.1.x
codebase), so we encourage fearless users to test drive it and report
issues.
Planned July builds:
* Tomcat 4.1.25: bugfix only release
* Tomcat 5.0.4 and 5.0.5: bugfix and polish over 5.0.3
* mod_jk 1.2.5: mod_jk 1.x bugfix release
For more information, see the Jakarta-Tomcat Website [1].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Turbine
===============
" a servlet based framework that allows developers to quickly build
secure web applications "
Editor: Henning Schmiedehausen
Since its last release on Dec, 6 2002, the Turbine Web Application
Framework has undergone some significant improvements and changes.
Most of the sore points (Logging, Configuration, Component Integration)
have been addressed, improved and resolved. Currently, the Turbine
Developers are working hard towards the next release which is scheduled
for Mid to End of July. A first Release Candidate (RC) is to be expected
around July, 7th.
Changes from the last release include:
* Usage of commons-logging everywhere for unified logging of all parts
of an application
* Centralized configuration with the ability to configure from XML files
and JNDI servers
* Multiple new security implementations, including LDAP and a flexible,
database driven security service
* Crypto Service for various kinds of encryption (including Unix crypt)
* Completely overhauled and reworked input validation service (Intake)
* Many bug fixes and code cleanups
An Avalon Component Service is available which allows users to
integrate Avalon components into Turbine applications. The Turbine
Development Team recommends using this new Service for accessing the
Torque object persistence framework which is the foundation for some of
the Turbine Services such as Security Service and Scheduler Service.
For more information see the Homepage of the Jakarta Turbine Project [1].
[1] - http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jakarta Velocity
================
" Velocity is a general purpose Java-based template engine "
Editor: Will Glass-Husain
After a long period of quiet, the Velocity developer community has
recently gained some new momentum. Work has begun on a patch to add
floating point number capability to the velocity syntax. Other changes
under discussion include
* Support for defining maps
* New rules for whitespace gobbling
* "Local Scope" for variables, e.g. in macros
* Filters to munge text
* Multi-line #set directives, Strings and ArrayList definitions
Also, the VelocityTools subproject has been stable for months now and
is nearing first release. Among other things, it provides good support
for rapid, clean development of web applications with Velocity and
optional integration with the Struts framework. Anyone developing web
applications with Velocity needs to check this out.
More info is on the velocity-dev list. Please come and share any
comments you might have!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache Ant Project
==================
" Apache Ant is a Java-based build tool "
Editor: Conor MacNeill, Steve Loughran
In addition to Ant's Java World Editors' Award, the Apache Ant has also
been awarded the Java Pro Readers' Choice award for Most Valuable Java
Deployment Technology.
Anyone upgrading to Java1.4.2 should note that <javah> breaks, on
account of the entry point to the javah code being moved. This is fixed
in CVS, and may merit a release of an update of the 1.5.x branch simply
to reduce developer grief. We must actually credit Sun for giving us an
early warning of the change, but cannot fail to observe that leaving
entry points alone would have been better.
In the Ant core itself work on the new task loading mechanism <antlib>
is progressing; once this is stable it should improve how tasks load. To
address with the related increase in .jar files that come from splitting
optional.jar up by dependency Conor has recently added an alternate
startup mechanism, Launcher, which should offload much of the work of
the surprisingly troublesome startup scripts into the Java code itself.
With a single means of adding ANT_HOME/lib jars to the classpath,
finding the JDK and such like, life should be easier for everyone,
especially those who insist on installing Java in directories with
spaces in them.
Ant is gearing up for the 1.6 release. There will be a number of new
features and improvements. There is still a lot of development to do so
it's a month or two away at this stage. There are things such as the
import task, xdocs documentation generation, possible type polymorphism,
etc. There are nightly builds to try now if you want to see what sort of
features are coming and you want to test them out.
There is a new task <scriptdef> allowing tasks to be created from BSF
scripts. It's a piece of a larger, interesting discussion about
scripting within Ant. One approach is speculating about the use of
scripting based alternatives to the Ant XML representation that still
leverage the tasks in the Ant codebase.
There is a new book on Ant in the stores, "Extreme Programming with Ant",
by Niemeyer and Poteet. Covering Ant 1.5.3, JUnit, XDoclet and related
tools with an XP build and deploy focus. It sounds like an interesting
read.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache Avalon Fortress
======================
Editor: Anton Tagunov
The long awaited Fotress 1.0 has finally been released.
Implementing full support for Avalon 4 interfaces Fortress provides a
straightforward upgrade path from the outdated ECM Avalon container.
The most lightweight of the modern Avalon containers Fortress is easy
to embed into managed environments like servlet engines. It features
high scalability and facilates creation of application-specific avalon
containers.
The difference that all ECM users will notice is the decomission of
role files -- this information is now expressable via javadoc tags in
component's source.
For more information, see the Avalon Fortress website [1].
[1] - http://avalon.apache.org/excalibur/fortress/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache DB OJB
=============
" Object/Relational mapping tool that allows transparent persistence for
Java Objects against relational databases "
Editor: Thomas Mahler
OJB is in the process of finalizing a 1.0 release. We plan to have a
new release candidate in July and hope to get out the 1.o release by end
of July. In the last months OJB attracted more public attention.
* There is an article at OnJava: [1]
* There has been a technical workshop on Struts and OJB at JavaOne: [2]
* Several books on opensource development now cover OJB in some detail
For more information, visit the Apache DB OJB (object relational bridge)
website [3].
[1] - http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/01/08/ojb.html
[2] - http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/sf2003/conf/sessions/display-3368.en.lite
[3] - http://db.apache.org/ojb/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache Httpd WebServer Project
==============================
Editor: Robert Burrell Donkin
May saw a new release in the web's most popular family of web servers.
Apache HTTPD 2.0.46 is the latest and greatest version and is now
available for download.
For more details see the HTTPD WebServer Project Home Page [1].
[1] - http://httpd.apache.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache James Project
====================
" Apache James offers a mail and news server, supporting Mailets, SMTP,
POP3, NNTP, and soon..IMAP "
Editor: Serge Knystautas
The James team has been on a roll lately, incorporating several
long-outstanding feature requests into the stable 2.X release branch.
The biggest new feature is a custom class-loading system, so custom
mailets and matchers do not need to be built and included within James
itself. This will allow much faster and easier development of email
based applications.
James was featured this month on IBM Developer works with two excellent
articles by Claude Duguay. He first introduces "users to James" [1] and
then gets into "building some custom mailets and matchers" [2].
Other recent changes include clarifying exception handling and adding
the ability to configure how James should handle these unexpected errors.
There have also been a large number of bug fixes, and we are rolling out
releases almost every month. Some upcoming features include an enhanced
mailing list system, better database connection pooling, and some
improvements to the mailet API. The differences between the 2.X and the
3.X branch are gradually shrinking as features are being backported to
the current stable branch.
Since becoming a top-level project (TLP), the James community continues
to experience strong growth, this spring averaging over 12,000 downloads
per month. Vincenzo joined us as a new ASF committer this month, and we
plan to continue to grow the developer community. We have recently
migrated our CVS and mailing lists to reflect our new TLP status, so
please check the website if you want to subscribe or check out the
source code.
For more information, visit the Apache James website [3].
[1] - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-james1.html
[2] - http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-james2.html
[3] - http://james.apache.org/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
New Committers
==============
" New Committers welcomed to Apache.Org"
* Amichai Rothman: amichai at amichais.net
(Jakarta-Poi)
* Yoav Shapira: yoavs at apache.org
(Jakarta-Tomcat, Jakarta-log4j-sandbox)
* Adrian Sutton: adrian at apache.org
(Jakarta-Commons - HttpClient)
* Jan Materne: jhm at apache.org
(Apache-Ant)
* Michal Maczka: michal at apache.org
(Apache-Maven)
* Vincenzo Gianferrari Pini: vincenzo at apache.org
(Apache-James)
* Tim Funk: funkman at apache.org
(Jakarta-Tomcat)
* Mark R. Diggory: mdiggory at apache.org
(Jakarta-Commons - Math)
* Anton Tagunov: atagunov at apache.org
(Apache-Avalon)
* Jeremy Ford: jford at apache.org
(Jakarta-Jetspeed)
* Tetsuya Kitahata: tetsuya at apache.org
(Jakarta-Site2, Jakarta-Poi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Products
========
" Products List available as of the end of June "
<<Jakarta Project>>
<Library, Tool, API>
* BCEL 5.1
* BSF 2.3.0
* ECS 1.4.1
* JMeter 1.8.1(1.9-RC2)
* Log4j 1.2.8
* ORO 2.0.7 (2.0.8-dev-1)
* POI 1.5.1 (2.0-pre1)
* Regexp 1.2 (1.3-dev)
* Taglibs 1.2
* Watchdog 4.0.0
<Framework, Engine>
* Cactus 1.4.1
* Lucene 1.3-rc1
* GUMP -
* Struts 1.1
* Tapestry 3.0-beta-1a
* Turbine 2.2.0 (2.3-dev)
* Turbine Fulcrum 3.0-beta1
* Turbine JCS -
* Turbine TDK 2.2a2
* Velocity 1.3.1
<Server Applications>
* Alexandria 0.1
* Jetspeed 1.4-beta4
* Slide 1.0.16
* Tomcat 3 3.3.1a
* Tomcat 4 4.1.24
* Tomcat 5 5.0.3-alpha
<Jakarta Commons Component>
* BeanUtils 1.6.1
* Betwixt 1.0-alpha1
* CLI 1.0
* Codec 1.1
* Collections 2.1
* DBCP 1.0
* Digester 1.5
* Discovery 0.2
* EL 1.0
* FileUpload 1.0
* HttpClient 2.0-beta2
* Jelly 1.0-Beta3
* Jexl Nightly Builds Only
* JXPath 1.1
* Lang 1.0.1
* Latka 1.0-alpha1
* Logging 1.0.3
* Modeler 1.1M1
* Net 1.0.0
* Pool 1.0.1
* Validator 1.0.2
<<Jakarta Related Projects>>
* Apache Ant 1.5.3-1
* Avalon Framework 4.1.4
* Avalon Excalibur 4.1
* Avalon Logkit 1.2
* Avalon Cornerstone -
* Avalon ECM -
* Avalon Fortress 1.0
* Avalon Phoenix 4.0.4
* Avalon Merlin -
* Apache DB OJB 1.0-rc3
* Apache DB Torque 3.1-alpha2
* Apache HTTPD 2.0.46
* Incubator AltRMI 0.9.1
* Incubator FTPServer 0.1
* Apache James 2.1.3
* Apache Maven 1.0-beta10
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Readers' Voice (Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaNewsletterDrafts/Issue10
Please feel free to write the comments on the last (jakarta) newsletter
;-) ... (@ Readers' Voice Section)
... even if the Jakarta Newsletter will be sublimated as "the Apache
Newsletter", your opinions/voices might be a help for this in either
case.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
<OffTopic>
I should have followed the intuition of mine which had occured
around 3 months ago or thereabouts.
Before the creation of "The Apache Newsletter",
I should have succeeded in the creation/maintainance of
"Jakarta Newsletter" and "XML Newsletter".
That's what I wanted to do, indeed.
*sigh*
</OffTopic>
-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:41:53 +0900
(Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the comment!!
>
> Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the
> 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta.
>
> 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think.
> However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare
> the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml,
> apache-ws, and apache-cocoon.
>
> e.g.
> odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
> even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
>
> These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST)
> (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
> Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> >
> > ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ...
> >
> > Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work.
> >
> > And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml'
> > scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Dw
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
> http://www.terra-intl.com/
> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: tetsuya@apache.org http://www.terra-intl.com/
Apache Software Foundation Committer: http://www.apache.org/~tetsuya/
fingerprint: E420 3713 FAB0 C160 4A1E 6FC5 5846 23D6 80AE BDEA
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Apache-XML-Newsletter (Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Yes! I think it'd be a great success creating newsletters for Apache-XML
(and Apache-WS/Apache-Cocoon) and I'd love to volunteer.
The only one thing: I have karma for the jakarta-site2, but do not for
xml-site. I can prepare the [patch] for the apache-xml-news and post to
general@xml but I am afraid it will be annoying for the subscribers.
Probably, I need more *inquiry* and collaborators.
(There's no problem creating new "wikipage"s for xml-newsletter and
I can make the most use of the know-hows on the jakarta-newsletter)
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:44:20 +0100
(Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org> wrote:
> hi Tetsuya
>
> thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for
> newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as
> well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success.
>
> - robert
>
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> >
> > Thank you for the comment!!
> >
> > Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the
> > 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta.
> >
> > 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think.
> > However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare
> > the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml,
> > apache-ws, and apache-cocoon.
> >
> > e.g.
> > odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
> > even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
> >
> > These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST)
> > (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
> > Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> >>
> >> ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ...
> >>
> >> Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work.
> >>
> >> And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml'
> >> scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own!
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Dw
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:07:12 +0100
(Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Thom May <th...@debian.org> wrote:
> Why the obsession with email?
> We have a (pretty good ;-) ) webserver. Why don't we have a web page?
> www.apache.org/news/monthly or something.
> http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/ by way of prior art.
> Update that page, and send the letter to a *dedicated* list if so desired.
> Judoing a non-related list into handling this is not the right approach.
1.
"Jakarta Newsletter" has the web page version.
e.g. -- Issue 9 --
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
(97827byte)
E-mail version's size was 33226byte.
If the "Jakarta Newsletter" will be sublimated to "the Apache Newsletter",
http://www.apache.org/newsletter/ or somewhere might be preferable.
2.
I do not think that the httpd protocol is prior to SMTP/POP and vice
versa. There are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages.
I think giving opportunities for people to read the newsletter
via web page as well as e-mail is preferable.
3.
There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People
in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe,
however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination*
for something.
I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition
of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well
as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth).
4.
Personally, I do not like the old-fashioned controversy like 'Linux is
prior to XX-OS', 'Java is prior to XX-Language', etc. Stiring up the
*awareness* is important, and *sublimation* is great.
*sublimation* -- "A Patchy" spirits!
5.
I am subscribing to 50 or more mailing lists and I receive over 500
mails per day. However, I do not feel that *XX mail is annoying*
or any because I have know-hows on dealing with e-mails properly.
(Plus: I've experienced the moderation of over 30 mailing list
at the same time)
Needless e-mails?? -- just setting up mail client to push these
mails to trash box automatically, using regular expressions.
I think "E-mail" has two aspects/functions:
i) information: FLOW
ii) information: STOCK
Too much exaggeration of the *bandwidth* will end up with
the result of the lack of the important ii), I think.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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[CONCLUSION] Apache Newsletter
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
All,
Seems that the vote (to be precise, proposal) has been
passed without a dissenting voice.
"The ayes have it !"
So, I will prepare for the Apache Newsletter from now on.
(ApacheWiki, etc.)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts
and
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
Apache Newsletter will be appeared at http://www.apache.org/newsletter/
If you have question on this, please do not hesitate to ask me
(tetsuya@apache.org)
Cross-Posted to Jakarta-General, WS-General and XML-General.
To WS and XML folks: please see the jakarta-newsletter example seen at
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
We will prepare the Apache Software Foundation Wide Newsletter.
I will announce to you at all the developer list when I need help for
the articles. Please please help me when the time has come.
-- My Original Intention --
There are so many projects in the ASF, and it might be very hard for all
the users/developers to catch up whole things what is happening to the
Apache activities. The aim of the newsletter is to try and let people know
what's been going on in the projects in the ASF when they have been
unable to monitor all of them themselves. The editorship of the various
sections and overall will probably vary which should hopefully lead to a
fairly dynamic newsletter.
There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People
in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe,
however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination*
for something.
I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition
of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well
as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth).
Of course, I want to prepare the web version for the newsletter:
there are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages.
I am glad that this "Apache Newsletter" will be published as a result
of the outgrowth of "Jakarta Newsletter" and the newsletter can cover
all the projects including infrastructure, incubator et ce tra.
Thanks to the all the contributors to the previous jakarta newsletter
and the precursors, Rob Oxsprings and Robert Burrel Donkin's great work.
We lowered the barrier to entry - users and developers will be able to
easily contribute, as prepared the ApacheWiki.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi
If you have anything to be added to the ApacheWiki, please go to
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
and fill up what you want to append.
Anticipating nice blurb and news for the projects which you are
interested in!!
------------------------------------
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S.
There is still a room for the discussion about the 'frequency' and
'place to post', however, I want to do the "experimentation" for a while.
(not so long)
I think "experimentation" might conform to the "A Patchy" spirits ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500
(Subject: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003])
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
>
> > Why the obsession with email?
>
> push vs. pull
>
> example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending
> its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog
> and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you
> will read it is much lower.
>
> another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you
> carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you
> can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires*
> effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower.
>
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
[CONCLUSION] Apache Newsletter
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
All,
Seems that the vote (to be precise, proposal) has been
passed without a dissenting voice.
"The ayes have it !"
So, I will prepare for the Apache Newsletter from now on.
(ApacheWiki, etc.)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts
and
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
Apache Newsletter will be appeared at http://www.apache.org/newsletter/
If you have question on this, please do not hesitate to ask me
(tetsuya@apache.org)
Cross-Posted to Jakarta-General, WS-General and XML-General.
To WS and XML folks: please see the jakarta-newsletter example seen at
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
We will prepare the Apache Software Foundation Wide Newsletter.
I will announce to you at all the developer list when I need help for
the articles. Please please help me when the time has come.
-- My Original Intention --
There are so many projects in the ASF, and it might be very hard for all
the users/developers to catch up whole things what is happening to the
Apache activities. The aim of the newsletter is to try and let people know
what's been going on in the projects in the ASF when they have been
unable to monitor all of them themselves. The editorship of the various
sections and overall will probably vary which should hopefully lead to a
fairly dynamic newsletter.
There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People
in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe,
however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination*
for something.
I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition
of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well
as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth).
Of course, I want to prepare the web version for the newsletter:
there are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages.
I am glad that this "Apache Newsletter" will be published as a result
of the outgrowth of "Jakarta Newsletter" and the newsletter can cover
all the projects including infrastructure, incubator et ce tra.
Thanks to the all the contributors to the previous jakarta newsletter
and the precursors, Rob Oxsprings and Robert Burrel Donkin's great work.
We lowered the barrier to entry - users and developers will be able to
easily contribute, as prepared the ApacheWiki.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi
If you have anything to be added to the ApacheWiki, please go to
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
and fill up what you want to append.
Anticipating nice blurb and news for the projects which you are
interested in!!
------------------------------------
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S.
There is still a room for the discussion about the 'frequency' and
'place to post', however, I want to do the "experimentation" for a while.
(not so long)
I think "experimentation" might conform to the "A Patchy" spirits ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500
(Subject: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003])
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
>
> > Why the obsession with email?
>
> push vs. pull
>
> example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending
> its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog
> and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you
> will read it is much lower.
>
> another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you
> carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you
> can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires*
> effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower.
>
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
[CONCLUSION] Apache Newsletter
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
All,
Seems that the vote (to be precise, proposal) has been
passed without a dissenting voice.
"The ayes have it !"
So, I will prepare for the Apache Newsletter from now on.
(ApacheWiki, etc.)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts
and
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
Apache Newsletter will be appeared at http://www.apache.org/newsletter/
If you have question on this, please do not hesitate to ask me
(tetsuya@apache.org)
Cross-Posted to Jakarta-General, WS-General and XML-General.
To WS and XML folks: please see the jakarta-newsletter example seen at
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
We will prepare the Apache Software Foundation Wide Newsletter.
I will announce to you at all the developer list when I need help for
the articles. Please please help me when the time has come.
-- My Original Intention --
There are so many projects in the ASF, and it might be very hard for all
the users/developers to catch up whole things what is happening to the
Apache activities. The aim of the newsletter is to try and let people know
what's been going on in the projects in the ASF when they have been
unable to monitor all of them themselves. The editorship of the various
sections and overall will probably vary which should hopefully lead to a
fairly dynamic newsletter.
There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People
in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe,
however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination*
for something.
I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition
of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well
as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth).
Of course, I want to prepare the web version for the newsletter:
there are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages.
I am glad that this "Apache Newsletter" will be published as a result
of the outgrowth of "Jakarta Newsletter" and the newsletter can cover
all the projects including infrastructure, incubator et ce tra.
Thanks to the all the contributors to the previous jakarta newsletter
and the precursors, Rob Oxsprings and Robert Burrel Donkin's great work.
We lowered the barrier to entry - users and developers will be able to
easily contribute, as prepared the ApacheWiki.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi
If you have anything to be added to the ApacheWiki, please go to
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
and fill up what you want to append.
Anticipating nice blurb and news for the projects which you are
interested in!!
------------------------------------
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S.
There is still a room for the discussion about the 'frequency' and
'place to post', however, I want to do the "experimentation" for a while.
(not so long)
I think "experimentation" might conform to the "A Patchy" spirits ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500
(Subject: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003])
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
>
> > Why the obsession with email?
>
> push vs. pull
>
> example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending
> its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog
> and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you
> will read it is much lower.
>
> another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you
> carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you
> can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires*
> effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower.
>
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
[CONCLUSION] Apache Newsletter
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
All,
Seems that the vote (to be precise, proposal) has been
passed without a dissenting voice.
"The ayes have it !"
So, I will prepare for the Apache Newsletter from now on.
(ApacheWiki, etc.)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts
and
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
Apache Newsletter will be appeared at http://www.apache.org/newsletter/
If you have question on this, please do not hesitate to ask me
(tetsuya@apache.org)
Cross-Posted to Jakarta-General, WS-General and XML-General.
To WS and XML folks: please see the jakarta-newsletter example seen at
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
We will prepare the Apache Software Foundation Wide Newsletter.
I will announce to you at all the developer list when I need help for
the articles. Please please help me when the time has come.
-- My Original Intention --
There are so many projects in the ASF, and it might be very hard for all
the users/developers to catch up whole things what is happening to the
Apache activities. The aim of the newsletter is to try and let people know
what's been going on in the projects in the ASF when they have been
unable to monitor all of them themselves. The editorship of the various
sections and overall will probably vary which should hopefully lead to a
fairly dynamic newsletter.
There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People
in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe,
however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination*
for something.
I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition
of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well
as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth).
Of course, I want to prepare the web version for the newsletter:
there are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages.
I am glad that this "Apache Newsletter" will be published as a result
of the outgrowth of "Jakarta Newsletter" and the newsletter can cover
all the projects including infrastructure, incubator et ce tra.
Thanks to the all the contributors to the previous jakarta newsletter
and the precursors, Rob Oxsprings and Robert Burrel Donkin's great work.
We lowered the barrier to entry - users and developers will be able to
easily contribute, as prepared the ApacheWiki.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi
If you have anything to be added to the ApacheWiki, please go to
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
and fill up what you want to append.
Anticipating nice blurb and news for the projects which you are
interested in!!
------------------------------------
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S.
There is still a room for the discussion about the 'frequency' and
'place to post', however, I want to do the "experimentation" for a while.
(not so long)
I think "experimentation" might conform to the "A Patchy" spirits ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500
(Subject: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003])
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
>
> > Why the obsession with email?
>
> push vs. pull
>
> example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending
> its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog
> and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you
> will read it is much lower.
>
> another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you
> carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you
> can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires*
> effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower.
>
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
+2
(+1 is the aye for the proposal:
another +1 is the expression of my will to volunteer)
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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[CONCLUSION] Apache Newsletter
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Dear Apache James Team,
(The original discussion was took place at community@apache.org)
Seems that the vote (to be precise, proposal) has been
passed without a dissenting voice.
"The ayes have it !"
So, I will prepare for the Apache Newsletter from now on.
(ApacheWiki, etc.)
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts
and
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
Apache Newsletter will be appeared at http://www.apache.org/newsletter/
If you have question on this, please do not hesitate to ask me
(tetsuya@apache.org)
James Folks: please see the jakarta-newsletter example seen at
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/200305.html
We will prepare the Apache Software Foundation Wide Newsletter.
I will announce to you at all the developer list when I need help for
the articles. Please please help me when the time has come.
-- My Original Intention --
There are so many projects in the ASF, and it might be very hard for all
the users/developers to catch up whole things what is happening to the
Apache activities. The aim of the newsletter is to try and let people know
what's been going on in the projects in the ASF when they have been
unable to monitor all of them themselves. The editorship of the various
sections and overall will probably vary which should hopefully lead to a
fairly dynamic newsletter.
There are many people who are *passive* as well as *active*. People
in the tendency of passive will not actively see the website maybe,
however, e-mail might be able to stir up the *awareness*/*imagination*
for something.
I hope/believe that these kind of *awareness* will come to fruition
of the *cross-pollination* and *breakthrough* in technology as well
as in community's growth (ASF-wide community's growth).
Of course, I want to prepare the web version for the newsletter:
there are many people who love e-mails as well as web pages.
I am glad that this "Apache Newsletter" will be published as a result
of the outgrowth of "Jakarta Newsletter" and the newsletter can cover
all the projects including infrastructure, incubator et ce tra.
Thanks to the all the contributors to the previous jakarta newsletter
and the precursors, Rob Oxsprings and Robert Burrel Donkin's great work.
We lowered the barrier to entry - users and developers will be able to
easily contribute, as prepared the ApacheWiki.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi
If you have anything to be added to the ApacheWiki, please go to
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheNewsletterDrafts/Issue1
and fill up what you want to append.
Anticipating nice blurb and news for the projects which you are
interested in!!
------------------------------------
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S.
There is still a room for the discussion about the 'frequency' and
'place to post', however, I want to do the "experimentation" for a while.
(not so long)
I think "experimentation" might conform to the "A Patchy" spirits ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:33:14 -0500
(Subject: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003])
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
>
> > Why the obsession with email?
>
> push vs. pull
>
> example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending
> its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog
> and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you
> will read it is much lower.
>
> another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you
> carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you
> can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires*
> effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower.
>
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Mads Toftum <ma...@toftum.dk>.
On Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 11:01:16AM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Mads Toftum wrote, On 11/07/2003 18.53:
> ...
> >I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it
> >being forced on people who didn't want it.
>
> Are there a lot of people here on community@apache.org that not want to
> know, or even care, of what is happening in Apache-land?
>
> Oh well...
>
Taken out of context - I was replying to the idea of sending it on announce@
I'd much prefer having a www.apache.org/news/ with a list to subscribe to,
rss feeds and such, and thus not really seeing the need to get it here also,
but thats nothing my procmail can't handle, so do whatever you like.
vh
Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June
2003]
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Mads Toftum wrote, On 11/07/2003 18.53:
...
> I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it
> being forced on people who didn't want it.
Are there a lot of people here on community@apache.org that not want to
know, or even care, of what is happening in Apache-land?
Oh well...
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Mads Toftum <ma...@toftum.dk>.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 05:19:26PM +0100, Thom May wrote:
> I'm kinda +0.5; I don't think announce@a.o should be used (Seperation of
> concerns - news summary != announcement), but aside from
> that I think it's a good idea.
Yeah, I'd really prefer that it was a seperate list - announce seems
wrong for this type of content.
Over the years www.apacheweek.com has done a really good job on the
httpd side - even if it wasn't entirely official.
I like the idea of a (bi-)monthly newsletter, but I'd hate to see it
being forced on people who didn't want it.
vh
Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Thom May <th...@debian.org>.
* Stefano Mazzocchi (stefano@apache.org) wrote :
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
I'm kinda +0.5; I don't think announce@a.o should be used (Seperation of
concerns - news summary != announcement), but aside from
that I think it's a good idea.
-Thom, never having been against the idea of a newsletter, just where it was
being aimed ;-)
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June
2003]
Posted by Tom Copeland <to...@infoether.com>.
On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 11:33, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
>
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
+1
--
Tom Copeland <to...@infoether.com>
InfoEther
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RE: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> >> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> >> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> >> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> >> non-so-project stuff.
> >>
> >> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
> >>
> >> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
> >>
> >> What do you think?
+1
Since Rob Oxspring started the Jakarta newsletter it has been a fantastic
way for people to keep abreast of other projects progress.
Expanding the concept can only be a Good Thing.
On a personal note I'm in favour of reading short-ish summary contributions
that link to more in-depth material elsewhere, too many words and I won't
have time to digest all of it.
d.
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June
2003]
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Jeff Trawick escribió:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>> This is what I would like to see:
>>
>> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
>> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
>> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
>> non-so-project stuff.
>>
>> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>>
>> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>>
>> What do you think?
>
>
> +1
>
+1
> (though I worry about what the editor(s) will have to suffer through)
The approach by Tetsuya is great: use the wiki as a draft, and post into
the projects lists at given times prompting the people and notifying the
deadlines. If the projects don't "fill in the blanks", it is their problem.
I would like also, but it requires dedicated people, the kind of entries
in the newsletter that I have seen in the linux kernel, commenting on
the interesting threads, etc. And, of course, Steven's weather report. ;-)
Regards
--
Santiago Gala
High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com)
http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June
2003]
Posted by Jeff Trawick <tr...@attglobal.net>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> This is what I would like to see:
>
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
+1
(though I worry about what the editor(s) will have to suffer through)
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June
2003]
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
>in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
>infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
>non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
>What do you think?
>
+1
Vadim
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RE: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> This is what I would like to see:
+1
--- Noel
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Re: Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 11/07/2003, at 05:33, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> 1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
> in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
> infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
> non-so-project stuff.
>
> 2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
>
> 3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
>
> What do you think?
+1. Amen, brother.
Cheers,
Erik
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Apache Newsletter [Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003]
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
on 7/11/03 6:07 AM Thom May wrote:
> Why the obsession with email?
push vs. pull
example: we are having this conversation and the information I'm sending
its pushed into your mailbox. I could post this information on a weblog
and then point you to it, but, in my experience, the chance that you
will read it is much lower.
another reason is asynchronicity. if I push it in your mailboxes, you
carry it with you. maybe on a train, as it was already noted. Sure, you
can download stuff from the web and carry it with you but it *requires*
effort from your part. Again, the chance that you will do it is much lower.
This is what I would like to see:
1) the ASF publishes a newsletter (following the very nice style used
in the recent Jakarta one) that covers all the ASF endevours. Including
infrastructure, licensing, security, incubation and all the
non-so-project stuff.
2) the newsletter is sent to announce@apache.org
3) the newsletter is then archived on www.apache.org/newsletter/[date]
What do you think?
--
Stefano.
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Thom May <th...@debian.org>.
* David N. Welton (davidw@dedasys.com) wrote :
> Ceki G?lc? <ce...@qos.ch> writes:
>
> > Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the
> > possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers.
> > However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a
> > technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to
> > imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month.
>
> I don't care much for Java either, but on the other hand, I would like
> to find a compromise that
>
> 1) Lets me keep abreast of major developments/interesting things in
> other apache projects.
>
> 2) Doesn't require me to subscribe to another 343432 mailing lists.
>
> Some sort of compromise of this type would hopefully do a bit towards
> "cross-pollination" efforts, which I presume are something we value?
>
> Maybe what is needed is an editor for an 'ASF news' mail which lists
> the month's highlights. Not volunteering, sorry!
>
Why the obsession with email?
We have a (pretty good ;-) ) webserver. Why don't we have a web page?
www.apache.org/news/monthly or something.
http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/ by way of prior art.
Update that page, and send the letter to a *dedicated* list if so desired.
Judoing a non-related list into handling this is not the right approach.
-Thom
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "David N. Welton" <da...@dedasys.com>.
Ceki G�lc� <ce...@qos.ch> writes:
> If I understand correctly, you are unwilling to receive one
> Jakarta-related email per month, on say, announce@apache.org mailing
> list. Is that the mailing list being considered?
With more than 15 projects, each one of which would presumably have
the right to post a monthly update, that amounts to an email every
couple of days.
> Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the
> possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers.
> However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a
> technical one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to
> imagine anyone being upset because of an extra message per month.
I don't care much for Java either, but on the other hand, I would like
to find a compromise that
1) Lets me keep abreast of major developments/interesting things in
other apache projects.
2) Doesn't require me to subscribe to another 343432 mailing lists.
Some sort of compromise of this type would hopefully do a bit towards
"cross-pollination" efforts, which I presume are something we value?
Maybe what is needed is an editor for an 'ASF news' mail which lists
the month's highlights. Not volunteering, sorry!
--
David N. Welton
Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Ceki Gülcü <ce...@qos.ch>.
At 10:55 AM 7/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As
>such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if
>I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email
>that I don't want.
>-Thom
If I understand correctly, you are unwilling to receive one
Jakarta-related email per month, on say, announce@apache.org mailing
list. Is that the mailing list being considered?
Sending a Java related email on announce@apache.org may breach the
possibly implicit contract between the list and its subscribers.
However, that seems more like a moral question rather than a technical
one, in the sense of increased volume. It is hard to imagine anyone
being upset because of an extra message per month.
--
Ceki For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Tetsuya Kitahata escribió:
> Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho
>>(http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental
>>format :-)
>
Someone defaced Sam's wiki frontpage. It has been restored by now.
>
> "Necho"? "Echo"?
>
There are plenty of names, or no name. From the frontpage: The
EchoProject is an initiative to develop a common syntax for syndication,
archiving and an publishing API.
The original name was Echo, but it was considered inappropriate and
changed, provisionally, to not-echo, or necho for short. Mark Pilgrim
calls it "the-format-that-should-not-be-named-echo" or something.
It is/will be a format similar to RSS, with API to edit or archive news
items. Of potential interest for things like the FAN (Future Apache
Newsletter) ;-)
> "Necho" reminds me of the word "Neko", which is used by
> Andy Clark's piece of works... "CyberNeko Parser" etc.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> P.S. "Neko" means *cat* in Japanese ;-)
>
Nice, I didn't know. It could be a good name for the project.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
--
Santiago Gala
High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com)
http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com> wrote:
> It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho
> (http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental
> format :-)
"Necho"? "Echo"?
"Necho" reminds me of the word "Neko", which is used by
Andy Clark's piece of works... "CyberNeko Parser" etc.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S. "Neko" means *cat* in Japanese ;-)
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Santiago Gala <sg...@hisitech.com>.
Noel J. Bergman escribió:
> Something like:
>
> <article name="..." url="..." title="">
> <summary>
> </summary>
> <body>
> </body>
> </article>
>
> would handle multiple forms, e.g., brief e-mail, full e-mail, web site
> edition. Cocoon could handle the entire publishing process, even producing
> a downloadable PDF for those who want to read it that way.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
It looks amazingly similar to RSS or necho
(http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/) if we want a more experimental
format :-)
Regards
---
Santiago Gala
High Sierra Technology, S.L. (http://hisitech.com)
http://memojo.com?page=SantiagoGalaBlog
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> But with the obvious caveat that an ASF wide newsletter might become quite
> big if people write major dissertations, I'd rather see nice concise
precis
> of recent activity, and links to more detail text where relevant, I'm more
> likely to read it all that way.
Let's see what happens. :-) And until wireless Internet is globally
available, you're balancing against those people who want to read on the
train, as they've put it.
> > FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web
> > trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing
> > model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually
> > appealing and navigable web edition.
> I suspect this is true too.
Something like:
<article name="..." url="..." title="">
<summary>
</summary>
<body>
</body>
</article>
would handle multiple forms, e.g., brief e-mail, full e-mail, web site
edition. Cocoon could handle the entire publishing process, even producing
a downloadable PDF for those who want to read it that way.
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Noel,
> Personally, I agree with those who feel that the text should be available
> via e-mail, and considering the roughly 1 message per month traffic on
> announce@, it is hard to argue that it is too much volume.
Agreed, I like the jakarta newsletter a lot.
But with the obvious caveat that an ASF wide newsletter might become quite
big if people write major dissertations, I'd rather see nice concise precis
of recent activity, and links to more detail text where relevant, I'm more
likely to read it all that way.
d.
>
> FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web
> trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing
> model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually
> appealing
> and navigable web edition. Since I won't be working on that, it is only a
> prediction based upon newsletters I'm already receiving from elsewhere.
I suspect this is true too.
d.
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Danny,
As I said to you in the broader context, I wasn't saying that community@ is
the right place; just that I think it is hard to call it off-topic if it
covers the whole community.
Actually, announce@ was one of the places I'd suggested in an earlier
message. announce@ has almost no traffic, no noise, a much larger
subscriber list (and not just ASF committers), and has the charter: "The
Apache Announcements list contains news and announcements about the
foundation and its projects." How more appropriate can it get?
> If you're worried that subscribers to community@ won't be subscribed to
> announce@ (and that the newsletter will miss some of its target audience)
In fact it will reach more of the target audience, not less. As you say,
the solution is to encourage people to subscribe to the right list. Also,
the newsletter would be available on the web.
> > and provide a separate subscriber list for
> > people who want the full newsletter.
> Have a seperate read-only newsletter list you mean?
Only if people felt that announce@ wasn't appropriate for the full text.
Personally, I agree with those who feel that the text should be available
via e-mail, and considering the roughly 1 message per month traffic on
announce@, it is hard to argue that it is too much volume.
FWIW, it is my personal expectation (based upon nothing more than web
trends) that at some point the newsletter will adopt an XML publishing
model, with an plain text version for e-mail, and a more visually appealing
and navigable web edition. Since I won't be working on that, it is only a
prediction based upon newsletters I'm already receiving from elsewhere.
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Noel,
> However, in the interests of compromise between those who want just a
> summary with link and those who want the full content, perhaps it would be
> best to post a summary e-mail,
Don't you think annouce@ is the place for that?
If you're worried that subscribers to community@ won't be subscribed to
announce@ (and that the newsletter will miss some of its target audience)
then I still feel quite strongly that the solution isn't to cross post, but
to encourage people to subscribe to the correct list.
If cross posting becomes an acceptable solution to the problem of people not
being subscribed to lists which might interest them then IMO it will create
a bigger problem than it solves.
> and provide a separate subscriber list for
> people who want the full newsletter.
Have a seperate read-only newsletter list you mean?
d.
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter
anyway.
> > Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested.
> the jakarta newsletter are verging on OT for community@ as well.
Perhaps, but it seems to me that this discussion has been about taking the
Jakarta Newsletter and turning it into the ASF Newsletter, with information
about all aspects of the ASF, and especially all of the projects.
I'm not saying that community@ is the right place, but in many respects it
is. After all, not ever community discussion is of interest to every
subscriber, but a newsletter whose primary purpose is to inform about the
ASF Community's status and projects seems quite on-topic to me.
However, in the interests of compromise between those who want just a
summary with link and those who want the full content, perhaps it would be
best to post a summary e-mail, and provide a separate subscriber list for
people who want the full newsletter.
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
David Reid wrote:
> I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway.
> Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested.
I agree, cross posting sucks in general and annoucements and the jakarta
newsletter are verging on OT for community@ as well.
I'd think that if there is a big percieved need to cross post annoucements
to community then we should try to find out why annouce@ isn't working and
fix that instead.
d.
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by David Reid <da...@jetnet.co.uk>.
I don't think community@ is a valid place for news of a newsletter anyway.
Perhaps announce@ for those who are interested.
david
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom May" <th...@debian.org>
To: <co...@apache.org>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> * Ceki G?lc? (ceki@qos.ch) wrote :
> > At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > >on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> > >
> > >> ...
> > >>
> > >>>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is
> > >>>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in
> > >>
> > >> ...
> > >>
> > >>>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter,
would
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Please please !
> > >>
> > >> I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial
boundaries.
> > >> Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match
things;
> > >a
> > >> bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java
left,
> > >> somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF
> > >> generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc.
> > >>
> > >> XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our
> > >world
> > >> - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring
bits
> > >of
> > >> php or mod_perl, etc, etc
> > >>
> > >> So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache
> > >wide
> > >> announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure.
I'd
> > >> love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I
> > >certainly
> > >> do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent
> > >one,
> > >> or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
> > >>
> > >> Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real
boundaries in
> > >> the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
> > >
> > >I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view.
> > >
> > >I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
> > >announce@apache.org once a month.
> > >
> > >At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination
> > >about all the different projects in one confy session.
> > >
> > >This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to
> > >shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase
> > >crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me
first!)
> >
> >
> > Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing
> > the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable
> > and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful
> > information.
> >
> For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As
> such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter
*if
> I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an
email
> that I don't want.
> -Thom
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Thom May <th...@debian.org>.
* Ceki G?lc? (ceki@qos.ch) wrote :
> At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> >
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is
> >>>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would
> >>
> >>
> >> Please please !
> >>
> >> I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries.
> >> Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things;
> >a
> >> bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left,
> >> somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF
> >> generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc.
> >>
> >> XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our
> >world
> >> - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits
> >of
> >> php or mod_perl, etc, etc
> >>
> >> So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache
> >wide
> >> announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd
> >> love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I
> >certainly
> >> do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent
> >one,
> >> or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
> >>
> >> Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in
> >> the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
> >
> >I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view.
> >
> >I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
> >announce@apache.org once a month.
> >
> >At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination
> >about all the different projects in one confy session.
> >
> >This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to
> >shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase
> >crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!)
>
>
> Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing
> the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable
> and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful
> information.
>
For jakarta people. I do very, *very* little work in the Java domain. As
such, having a link sent out to a url where i can peruse the newsletter *if
I so wish* is much better for me than having my bandwidth wasted by an email
that I don't want.
-Thom
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Ceki Gülcü <ce...@qos.ch>.
At 05:10 PM 7/10/2003 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
> > ...
> >
> >>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is
> >>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in
> >
> > ...
> >
> >>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would
> >
> >
> > Please please !
> >
> > I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries.
> > Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a
> > bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left,
> > somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF
> > generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc.
> >
> > XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world
> > - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of
> > php or mod_perl, etc, etc
> >
> > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide
> > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd
> > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly
> > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one,
> > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
> >
> > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in
> > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
>
>I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view.
>
>I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
>announce@apache.org once a month.
>
>At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination
>about all the different projects in one confy session.
>
>This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to
>shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase
>crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!)
Reducing bandwidth is an important objective. At the same time, sharing
the bandwidth for highly informative messages is perfectly reasonable
and should be encouraged. The Jakarta newsletter is packed with useful
information.
>--
>Stefano.
--
Ceki For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:57:13 -0400
(Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > you can't know who are the new committers without taking
> > snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail
>
> AFAICS, committer uids in /etc/passwd started at a particular value, and
> monotonically increment for each new user, so couldn't he use that as an
> indicator?
Sander, Noel,
I knew that it was subset of the "NewCommitters", to be precise....,
however, I'd rather like to let it as self-declaration system...
Why? it is because we can give the chance for the new committer to
edit the apachewiki page and give the *awareness* of something...
If this self-declaration system work wells, at the same time, the
content of the apachewiki will grow more gradually.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> you can't know who are the new committers without taking
> snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail
AFAICS, committer uids in /etc/passwd started at a particular value, and
monotonically increment for each new user, so couldn't he use that as an
indicator?
--- Noel
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 5:48 AM
[...]
> In creation of "Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9", I tried several things
> by way of experiment.
>
> 1. Announced to all the -dev list (not cross-post) to solicit
> contributors
> 2. Announced here in community@ to solicit contributors
> 2. Added the list of the "New Committers" -- welcomed to apache.org
This is only a subset of the new committers ASF wide. Reason for this
is that you can't know who are the new committers without taking
snapshots of /etc/passwd or /home/cvs/CVSROOT/avail and comparing them.
Or, to be on both root@ and infrastructure@.
Sander
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:24:23 +0100
"Rob Oxspring" <ro...@imapmail.org> wrote:
> One point I would like to make though, and not wanting to detract
> from this fantastic issue (thanks Tetsuya!), is that keeping the up
> the momentum has proved difficult at times over the last year and
> that not every project has something useful to say every month.
> Building the newsletter via the wiki makes it easier to contribute
> but I suspect that the normal size of a monthly apache newsletter
> still wouldn't be much bigger than this one. I guess what I'm saying
> is that I think we should let the newsletter grow too big before we
> start carving it up into even/odd months or similar schemes.
In creation of "Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9", I tried several things
by way of experiment.
1. Announced to all the -dev list (not cross-post) to solicit
contributors
2. Announced here in community@ to solicit contributors
2. Added the list of the "New Committers" -- welcomed to apache.org
3. Added the list of the "products available as of the end of the month"
4. Added various news from jakarta-related
5. Posted the news (articles) here in community@
In this process, I came across many things which should be piled
up for the successors as *knowledge*. Also, I think this know-how
might be applicable to the "XML-Newsletter"/"Apache-Newsletter"/...
Again,
I really thank to all the contributors and the predecessors
(Rob and Robert).
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S. Maybe, in the next newsletter, I can add the *Readers' Opinions* or
*Readers' View* subsection (^_^)
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Rob Oxspring <ro...@imapmail.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org>
> on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide
> > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd
> > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly
> > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one,
> > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
+1. I wanted to expand the newsletter to non-jakarta stuff from the beginning but never found the time to do it properly.
> >
> > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in
> > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
>
> I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view.
>
> I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
> announce@apache.org once a month.
Previously the announcement lists have always been the target lists except when getting comments on drafts - I would have thought the annoncements list(s) would be sufficient now that the wiki "live draft" is in place - so the controversial community posting could probably be dropped for the future.
One point I would like to make though, and not wanting to detract from this fantastic issue (thanks Tetsuya!), is that keeping the up the momentum has proved difficult at times over the last year and that not every project has something useful to say every month. Building the newsletter via the wiki makes it easier to contribute but I suspect that the normal size of a monthly apache newsletter still wouldn't be much bigger than this one. I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should let the newsletter grow too big before we start carving it up into even/odd months or similar schemes.
I do still like the idea of the full contents via email though as it makes it easier to catch up offline. I'm pretty sure that any issues >100k could be edited down for the email version with links to the full copy online but I'm still not expecting to see too many that size anyway.
Maybe I'm underestimating and need to explore *.apache.org again.
>
> At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination
> about all the different projects in one confy session.
>
> This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to
> shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase
> crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!)
Its good to see these two points being made - switch "the ASF" to "Jakarta" and they were the exact reasons that I wanted to start up a newsletter! (The jakarta limitted scope relating purely to my apache exposure at the time)
Rob
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by ra...@gmx.de.
> From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
> > If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body,
posting a
> > brief notice with link is hard to argue against.
>
> This is true but I'd like to be clearer on what people are objecting to
> first, I understand complaints about crossposting the body but are there
> serious objections to posting the full body to one central list?
I'd like to have the complete body going to at least one mailing list. I
often collect my e-mails and read them on the train. A brief notice with link is
hard to follow then.
Best regards
Rainer Klute
--
RAINER KLUTE IT-CONSULTING GMBH
Dipl.-Inform.
Rainer Klute klute@rainer-klute.de
Körner Grund 24 Telefon: +49 172 2324824
D-44143 Dortmund Telefax: +49 231 5349423
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Rob Oxspring <ro...@imapmail.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
> Stefano Mazzocchi applauded:
> > on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> > I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
> > announce@apache.org once a month.
>
> +1 except for the frequency, which I shan't comment upon. Kitahata-san
> seems to have taken upon his shoulders the chief responsibility for pulling
> together the newsletter. Those who do the work ought to have a say in the
> frequency.
Certainly those doing the sending should have the final say but I do think that monthly is the right period to aim for - much longer and the newsletter gets too big and a little stale. The workload may be higher but that should be a reason to spread the load not reduce the frequency - a rolling team of people would keep the impact on personal time to a minimum.
>
> If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a
> brief notice with link is hard to argue against.
This is true but I'd like to be clearer on what people are objecting to first, I understand complaints about crossposting the body but are there serious objections to posting the full body to one central list?
If so then fair enough but I'm curious.
Rob
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Stefano Mazzocchi applauded:
> on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
<clip/>
> > So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache
wide
> > announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd
> > love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I
certainly
> > do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent
one,
> > or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
> >
> > Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries
in
> > the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
> I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view.
Amen!
> I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
> announce@apache.org once a month.
+1 except for the frequency, which I shan't comment upon. Kitahata-san
seems to have taken upon his shoulders the chief responsibility for pulling
together the newsletter. Those who do the work ought to have a say in the
frequency.
If there is a widespread objection to posting the newsletter body, posting a
brief notice with link is hard to argue against.
> At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination
> about all the different projects in one confy session.
I had a lot of people in all of my "A Visitors Guide to Jakarta" sessions
last year at Colorado Software Summit (www.softwaresummit.com).
> I think it would be a great tool to increase crosspollination
> and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!)
Anything that increases collaboration, and decreases NIH is good. :-)
--- Noel
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
on 7/10/03 4:21 PM Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> ...
>
>>one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is
>>that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in
>
> ...
>
>>if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would
>
>
> Please please !
>
> I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries.
> Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a
> bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left,
> somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF
> generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc.
>
> XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world
> - t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of
> php or mod_perl, etc, etc
>
> So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide
> announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd
> love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly
> do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one,
> or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
>
> Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in
> the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
I can hardly agree more with Dirk's view.
I think we should have an apache-wide newsletter and deliver it thru
announce@apache.org once a month.
At apachecon one of the most packed sessions is always the explaination
about all the different projects in one confy session.
This newsletter tells people about the "status quo" without having to
shop around for info. I think it would be a great tool to increase
crosspollination and awareness even for people inside the ASF (me first!)
--
Stefano.
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org>.
...
> one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is
> that there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in
...
> if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would
Please please !
I think that none of us works in a vacuum across artificial boundaries.
Virtually all systems I build at work or for play, mix and match things; a
bit of XML here, some application language there, perhaps some java left,
somea bit of apache to connect it safely to the internet; some PDF
generation to keep PHB's happy, etc, etc.
XML, web and java are rarely separated; WS and ant straddle half our world
- t is hard to think of any app server environment whilst ignoring bits of
php or mod_perl, etc, etc
So an apache-wide newsletter would be great. And posting it to apache wide
announce, or even xposting it to all announce mailing list - sure. I'd
love that. Having it on the web is nice for archival too - but I certainly
do not mind 5-25k of well written quality newsletter (like the recent one,
or like apache week) delivered to my doorstep.
Keep up the good work - and think broad - there are no real boundaries in
the ASF, except for those we invent ourselves.
Dw
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:00 PM, Thom May wrote:
> * Nicola Ken Barozzi (nicolaken@apache.org) wrote :
>> Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24:
>>
>> Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all
>> announcements go also to general@jakarta.apache.org. Go figure.
>>
>> MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case.
>>
> straw. camel's back.
> there's no reason for the newsletter to be coming here that i can see.
one of the consequences of encouraging the breaking up of jakarta is that
there are a lot more apache projects (whether they started in jakarta or
not) who are feel interested in contributing to the newsletter. posting to
community (rather than - say - to the general and announcement lists of
every project that contributed) therefore seemed pretty reasonable when it
was proposed. now that there's been such a mixed reaction, it'll probably
be an experiment that won't be repeated.
if we do manage to get some momentum for an apache-wide newsletter, would
those people who are upset feel as hostile about an announcement about
this together with a link being posted to community?
- robert
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Thom May <th...@debian.org>.
* Nicola Ken Barozzi (nicolaken@apache.org) wrote :
>
> Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24:
>
>
> Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all
> announcements go also to general@jakarta.apache.org. Go figure.
>
> MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case.
>
straw. camel's back.
there's no reason for the newsletter to be coming here that i can see.
(note, this is not anything to do with the content, i'd say exactly the same
about an httpd or apr newsletter.)
I think most apache folk get enough email that stuff that can be seperated
should be.
-T
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> We have different lists for different purposes. This content does not
belong
> on this list.
Which content? The newsletter, or the discussion of turning it into an
ASF-wide newsletter?
--- Noel
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by David Reid <da...@jetnet.co.uk>.
Right.
The whole idea about this list was it would *NOT* become a dumping ground.
While discussion were ongoinbg about it there was a vocal group who kept
swearing that it would never become such a place - now you go and prove them
correct! Sad how the nay sayers are normally proven correct isn't it???
We have different lists for different purposes. This content does not belong
on this list. Neither would an XML newsletter, an APR one or an HTTPD one.
david
----- Original Message -----
From: "André Malo" <nd...@apache.org>
To: <co...@apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
> * Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> > Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all
> > announcements go also to general@jakarta.apache.org. Go figure.
> >
> > MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case.
>
> And now multiply one mail with the number of apache projects. Heh, *I* get
> about 200-300 mails per day. Just one more to decide if it's spam or not
> *does* matter. Not just me.
>
> It's really not meant as offense and your work is appreciated, but I agree
> with Thom. If one wants to read the jakarta newsletter one can subscribe
it.
> If not, one has to unsubscribe community@, which would finally result in a
> merge of community@ to general@jakarta... [1]
>
> nd
>
> [1] For those who didn't get it: that was a joke.
>
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>
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by André Malo <nd...@apache.org>.
* Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all
> announcements go also to general@jakarta.apache.org. Go figure.
>
> MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case.
And now multiply one mail with the number of apache projects. Heh, *I* get
about 200-300 mails per day. Just one more to decide if it's spam or not
*does* matter. Not just me.
It's really not meant as offense and your work is appreciated, but I agree
with Thom. If one wants to read the jakarta newsletter one can subscribe it.
If not, one has to unsubscribe community@, which would finally result in a
merge of community@ to general@jakarta... [1]
nd
[1] For those who didn't get it: that was a joke.
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Thom May wrote, On 10/07/2003 15.24:
> * Tetsuya Kitahata (tetsuya@apache.org) wrote :
>
>>On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:05 -0400
>>(Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
>>"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>>
>>And I think not only to this ML, but also to at least announcements@xml
>>and announcements@jakarta would be better.
>
> I don't think it should go to this Mailing List at all.
> Post an announcement about news@(jakarta.)?apache.org for people to sub to, ask
> apmail to create that list, post newsletters there. Don't clutter up this
> list with stuff that could easily be opt-in for people who want it, rather
> than forcing people who don't to either opt-out of this list or have to
> procmail it to /dev/null
> Just MHO
Jakarta has an announcement list. Guess what, most, if not all
announcements go also to general@jakarta.apache.org. Go figure.
MHO is that a mail a month is not a big deal in any case.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Thom May <th...@apache.org>.
* Tetsuya Kitahata (tetsuya@apache.org) wrote :
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:05 -0400
> (Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
> "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>
> And I think not only to this ML, but also to at least announcements@xml
> and announcements@jakarta would be better.
I don't think it should go to this Mailing List at all.
Post an announcement about news@(jakarta.)?apache.org for people to sub to, ask
apmail to create that list, post newsletters there. Don't clutter up this
list with stuff that could easily be opt-in for people who want it, rather
than forcing people who don't to either opt-out of this list or have to
procmail it to /dev/null
Just MHO
-Thom
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Apache Newsletter
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > > Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that
are
> > > not there yet, and publish it here on community@apache.org?
> > +1
> If we list up all the projects in ASF and make Apache-newsletter,
> I am (very) afraid it will be too big for ezmlm :-)
I don't believe that the newsletter needs to be, or should be, e-mailed.
Make it available for download, or make it part of the web site. E-mail an
announcement with a summary sheet, which is how I get other newsletters.
Use announcements@apache.org for the purpose.
> odd-numbered month: Apache-News-Letter -- Java, ServerApp
> even-numbered month: Apache-News-Letter -- XML,Interpreter Lang
That's an editorial policy, which may make sense in terms of workload.
> Where should we pile up the apache-newsletter in the apache website?
Wherever apsite and infrastructure want it, e.g.,
http://www.apache.org/newsletter/
http://newsletter.apache.org/
--- Noel
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:27:05 -0400
(Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > It has been already said, but the last newsletter was *awesome*! :-)
>
> Agreed! :-)
>
> > Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that are
> > not there yet, and publish it here on community@apache.org?
>
> +1
>
> It would help to preserve and build community the community aspect(s) of the
> ASF. Plus, there is a lot of synergy between various projects across TLP
> boundaries. The Apache Newsletter would also have marketing value for the
> brand. And it could be a suppliment to the regular PMC reports that the
> board needs.
Noel, Ken,
Uhhhm.... If we list up all the projects in ASF and make
Apache-newsletter, I am (very) afraid it will be too big for ezmlm :-)
Rather, it will be better:
e.g.
odd-numbered month: Apache-News-Letter -- Java, ServerApp
even-numbered month: Apache-News-Letter -- XML,Interpreter Lang
.. each projects can decide in which they should/wanna be listed up.
(Maybe a project whose name begins with "P" are willing / greedy enough
to be listed up in *BOTH* :-)
And I think not only to this ML, but also to at least announcements@xml
and announcements@jakarta would be better.
If we do not adhere to Apache-Newsletter, it will be simple:
e.g.
odd-numbered month: Jakarta-NewsLetter (bi-monthly newsletter)
: community@ , announcements@jakarta and general@jakarta
: TARGET : Jakarta, HTTPD Webserver, Jakarta-Related-Projects
even-numbered month: XML-NewsLetter (bi-monthly newsletter)
: community@ , announcements@xml and general@xml
: TARGET : XML, WS, Cocoon
Any thoughts?
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
P.S. Where should we pile up the apache-newsletter in the apache website?
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> It has been already said, but the last newsletter was *awesome*! :-)
Agreed! :-)
> Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that are
> not there yet, and publish it here on community@apache.org?
+1
It would help to preserve and build community the community aspect(s) of the
ASF. Plus, there is a lot of synergy between various projects across TLP
boundaries. The Apache Newsletter would also have marketing value for the
brand. And it could be a suppliment to the regular PMC reports that the
board needs.
--- Noel
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
robert burrell donkin wrote, On 09/07/2003 19.44:
> hi Tetsuya
>
> thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for
> newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as
> well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success.
It has been already said, but the last newsletter was *awesome*! :-)
I saw many non-jakarta projects on it, and that was very nice indeed. It
makes different projects understand what's happening to each other.
Why not simply make it the Apache Newsletter, add the projects that are
not there yet, and publish it here on community@apache.org?
As always, I'll help with the projects I'm on :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
hi Tetsuya
thanks again for all the hard work in the limited time available for
newsletter 9. i'd you like to volunteer to create an xml newsletter as
well as a jakarta one then i'm sure it'd be a great success.
- robert
On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:41 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> Thank you for the comment!!
>
> Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the
> 'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta.
>
> 'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think.
> However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare
> the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml,
> apache-ws, and apache-cocoon.
>
> e.g.
> odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
> even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
>
> These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST)
> (Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
> Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>>
>> ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ...
>>
>> Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work.
>>
>> And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml'
>> scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dw
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
> E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
> http://www.terra-intl.com/
> (Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
> http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Thank you for the comment!!
Well, I think "Jakarta-Newsletter" will keep in touch with the
'jakarta-related-projects'.. projects graduated from jakarta.
'XML Project' and 'WS-Project' are different from jakarta, I think.
However, in my mind, it might be wonderful if we can prepare
the 'XML-Newsletter' which contains the news from apache-xml,
apache-ws, and apache-cocoon.
e.g.
odd-numbered month: Jakarta-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
even-numbered month: XML-News-Letter (bi-monthly newsletter)
These will gratify most of the people interested in XML and java.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:17:44 +0200 (CEST)
(Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003)
Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> ... cut ... most wonderful newletter ...
>
> Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work.
>
> And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml'
> scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dw
-----------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: kitahata@bb.mbn.or.jp : tetsuya@apache.org
http://www.terra-intl.com/
(Apache Jakarta Translation, Japanese)
http://jakarta.terra-intl.com/
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Re: Jakarta Newsletter Issue 9 -- May-June 2003
Posted by Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org>.
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
... cut ... most wonderful newletter ...
Wow -you guys rocks ! Keep up the good work.
And I really do hope that this will keep its 'all things java and xml'
scope; despite ant and avalong becoming a PMC of their own!
Thanks!
Dw
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