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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2009/04/15 02:23:19 UTC
[REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
use the help of the Tapestry community.
I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
mature?"
I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
love quotes to back it up:
- Fast and easy to develop
- Helps with big teams
- Great performance
- Great internationalization / localization
- Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
"would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
in your mouth, however!
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Jun Tsai <ju...@gmail.com>.
http://www.1king1.com
>From China. using Tapestry5.0.
--
regards,
Jun Tsai
Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
today we are launching an OpenID provider. Currently we have 150K
unique visitors/day and gradually we expect "some of them" to register
an account on T5 id server. The functionality will be somehow similar
to myopenid.com but augmented with facebook connect principle of
authentication.
I will write some more in weeks to follow.
Cheers,
Borut
2009/4/15 Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>:
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Andy Pahne <an...@googlemail.com>.
This is the public part of a project consisiting of four different T5
applications:
http://www.travelling-britain.com/
We have been running on the latest T5 snapshots for the last six months
without any major problems. I have never done such thing before, running
a production website on alpha and beta releases, but it worked out well.
- Development of reusable components is easier than ever before!
- T5.1 feels very mature and stable, although still in Alpha / Beta status
- "Live class reloading" is the state of the art in Java web development
Andy
Howard Lewis Ship schrieb:
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
>
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by "Joost Schouten (mailing lists)" <jo...@jsportal.com>.
www.carealoud.com (beta)
soon (next month) www.jsportal.com will be changed over to a new
version using T5
I just love the way there is no configuration needed, the logical
defaults provided that are correct for 90% of the time and the way you
can overwrite everything in the entire framework if needed. Whipping
up a component if a minute or two is a welcome change from my JSF time
and having it show up without a restart is a huge time safer.
Furthermore, the @IncludeJavaScriptLibrary and @IncludeStylesheet are
great to keep your js and css organized by pages and components and
thus nicely readable.
Every web project I start now will be a T5 project.
Cheers,
Joost
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Otho <ta...@googlemail.com>.
It's very similar for me, but on a smaller scale. I developed a couple of
internal apps in T5, mostly integration with legacy stuff and also an app
which for me replaces the most annoying parts of the horrid interface of the
webshop-software in use. Since I am lazy I looked into the scripting
frameworks, too (as can be easily seen from my posts here on this list ;) )
but always come back to T5 on Java.
The reason is simply productivity as understood: Time and effort I need to
get a finished, useable product. Dynamic languages are really only >good<
for prototypes or somewhat simplistic stuff. This doesn't mean they can't be
used for complex applications, they just lose the race for productivity
then. The possible IDE support is limited principally, since there is no way
for the IDE to know what I intend to do with dynamic properties and methods
and thus many errors which I see in Java as I type, occur in dynamic
languages only at runtime and mostly with exceptions and error messages
which are all but helpful in tracking the problem down. The few lines of
code (IF any) you can save compared to Tapestry 5 are easily eaten up by
less maintainability and added debugging time. Furthermore in Java I anyways
only type like 60% of the code, since static typing enables much more
autocompletion and code generation which then is actually typo-free and also
easy to refactor if need be. Thus "lines of code" which are waived so much
nowadays are really a non issue, as is the "verbosity" of Java.
Constructs like List<Whatever> = new ArraysList<Whatever>(); may be
"verbose", but they also denote exactly my intent, are readable and written
mostly by the IDE anyways. And you don't need a comment to understand what
is going on.
All in all I would says that I am much more productive with Java/Tap5 than
with any other Java Framework and also more productive than with dynamic
frameworks. The measures Tapestry takes to reduce boilerplate help while
still maintaining the Java typical readability, but mostly it is the very
natural flow of coding which is enabled by Tapestry itself and its seamless
Spring integration.
2009/4/17 Ville Virtanen <vi...@cerion.fi>
>
> Hi,
>
> nice to see what others are making. We use T5 to build different kinds of
> systems for public and private sectors, but mainly budgeting and enterprise
> resource planning and monitoring software. Currently we have 4 T5 systems
> in
> production all in different client's environments, and two more projects
> are
> nearing release almost immediately.
>
> Our software typically integrates to multiple other systems, like personnel
> registries, data warehouses, salary systems, reporting systems etc. to
> combine all the wonderful data already present in most companies and to
> present it in usable and efficient way. The number of systems, old and new
> that are in use in a typical firm is overwhelming..
>
> We'll anyway T5 has proven to be stable, doesn't require much resources to
> do it's tasks and is easy and reliable to integrate to almost anything. The
> most important thing to us is that T5 allows us, you could even say directs
> us, to architect our systems easily and well, it supports us to write
> easy-to-understand code by removing all that clutter and exposes only the
> real things we wish to do, which directly means less code, which directly
> means quality and reduced costs (the drop of unsuccesfull code inspections
> etc.) lowered bug fix times etc. And we can also sell cheaper in the first
> place and win more cases, as development times have dropped.
>
> Also it can be seen that the developers who work with T5 are more motivated
> and happy with their work than those that are still stuck maintaining old
> Struts and servlet stuff. This cannot be calculated and is hard to prove,
> but there is definitely that trend: whether developer maintains or creates
> new functionality with Struts (or asp.net) they usually start with "why
> me,
> couldn't xxx do it", where as with T5 software it usually is "ok, let's go
> through the specs..."
>
> Before we have used Struts, plain servlets, T4 and we still use asp.net /
> C#
> for clients that require it, and so far there just is no match for T5 when
> software must be developed with minimum cost, but still to the standard and
> professionally. (Which, in my opinion, excludes all scripting languages.)
>
> There definitely is learning curve (as with any new technology), but in my
> opinion it definitely is worth it.
>
> Our end products aren't that attractive or flashy, and most of the sites
> are
> intranet-only software anyway so I don't have any sites to provide. I also
> don't have any hard numbers to back my statements that I can publish, but I
> do know that the projects we sold two years ago would be sold for about
> 10-20% cheaper today. (And I mean technical development time, not the
> overall price to which I have no access.) If we would change back to using
> old technologies we would have to add 10-20% to our work estimates. Also
> the
> customer benefits: the bought software is less error prone, easier to
> maintain and develop further.
>
> Tapestry 5 is no silver bullet, you still have to think before you code,
> but
> it does clearly add value. We are 100% committed to Tapestry 5 and will be
> using and recommending it for upcoming projects.
>
> - Ville
>
> Ps. What I stated above is my experience in the firm I work for. On top of
> that I have developed wholesale trade software system on my own for
> orientimport.fi, which makes 7th system that uses T5 that I've build.
> (Currently only static website, in about month there should be the real
> system online.)
>
>
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> >
> > I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> > use the help of the Tapestry community.
> >
> > I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> > do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> > mature?"
> >
> > I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> > love quotes to back it up:
> > - Fast and easy to develop
> > - Helps with big teams
> > - Great performance
> > - Great internationalization / localization
> > - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
> >
> >
> > so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> > xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> > "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> > in your mouth, however!
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> >
> > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> > Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/-REQUEST--Live-T5-web-sites%2C-quotes%2C-marketting-tp23050433p23095252.html
> Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Ville Virtanen <vi...@cerion.fi>.
Hi,
nice to see what others are making. We use T5 to build different kinds of
systems for public and private sectors, but mainly budgeting and enterprise
resource planning and monitoring software. Currently we have 4 T5 systems in
production all in different client's environments, and two more projects are
nearing release almost immediately.
Our software typically integrates to multiple other systems, like personnel
registries, data warehouses, salary systems, reporting systems etc. to
combine all the wonderful data already present in most companies and to
present it in usable and efficient way. The number of systems, old and new
that are in use in a typical firm is overwhelming..
We'll anyway T5 has proven to be stable, doesn't require much resources to
do it's tasks and is easy and reliable to integrate to almost anything. The
most important thing to us is that T5 allows us, you could even say directs
us, to architect our systems easily and well, it supports us to write
easy-to-understand code by removing all that clutter and exposes only the
real things we wish to do, which directly means less code, which directly
means quality and reduced costs (the drop of unsuccesfull code inspections
etc.) lowered bug fix times etc. And we can also sell cheaper in the first
place and win more cases, as development times have dropped.
Also it can be seen that the developers who work with T5 are more motivated
and happy with their work than those that are still stuck maintaining old
Struts and servlet stuff. This cannot be calculated and is hard to prove,
but there is definitely that trend: whether developer maintains or creates
new functionality with Struts (or asp.net) they usually start with "why me,
couldn't xxx do it", where as with T5 software it usually is "ok, let's go
through the specs..."
Before we have used Struts, plain servlets, T4 and we still use asp.net / C#
for clients that require it, and so far there just is no match for T5 when
software must be developed with minimum cost, but still to the standard and
professionally. (Which, in my opinion, excludes all scripting languages.)
There definitely is learning curve (as with any new technology), but in my
opinion it definitely is worth it.
Our end products aren't that attractive or flashy, and most of the sites are
intranet-only software anyway so I don't have any sites to provide. I also
don't have any hard numbers to back my statements that I can publish, but I
do know that the projects we sold two years ago would be sold for about
10-20% cheaper today. (And I mean technical development time, not the
overall price to which I have no access.) If we would change back to using
old technologies we would have to add 10-20% to our work estimates. Also the
customer benefits: the bought software is less error prone, easier to
maintain and develop further.
Tapestry 5 is no silver bullet, you still have to think before you code, but
it does clearly add value. We are 100% committed to Tapestry 5 and will be
using and recommending it for upcoming projects.
- Ville
Ps. What I stated above is my experience in the firm I work for. On top of
that I have developed wholesale trade software system on my own for
orientimport.fi, which makes 7th system that uses T5 that I've build.
(Currently only static website, in about month there should be the real
system online.)
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
--
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Fernando Padilla <fe...@alum.mit.edu>.
We have been using Tapestry 5, "it rocks".
We do so many sites using Tapestry, and mostly facebook, so here is our
index site (not tap5):
http://www.citizensportsinc.com/
Most of the sites listed off of this site are Tapestry 5. Except for
Protrade.com (Tap4), and a handful of apps we bought from other startups
(PHP).
Our flag-ship app is:
http://apps.facebook.com/citizensports/
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Petro <pe...@visualtis.com>.
We have build a new one:
http://www.polarisworld.com http://www.polarisworld.com
The site was originally build using a servlet and an own framework. The
customer want's a more simply and maintainable site so I give them the
possibility of using T5.
The final result was fantastic!! customer very happy and a new T5
application out in the web.
Regards
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Petro <pe...@visualtis.com>.
We have been using intensively T4, T4.1 and now we are working with T5 and
T5.1
We have a couple of applications developed with T5:
* http://laporradeportiva.com http://laporradeportiva.com
* http://sync.intenziona.com/intenziona/
http://sync.intenziona.com/intenziona/
* http://www.ferroviaria.net http://www.ferroviaria.net (not in production
yet)
T5 is a great evolution of T4.X. we have a number of reasons for using it:
* Faster development time
* Faster learning of the language
* Great to work in teams. No more xml
* Better i18n than T4
* It is getting better with ajax (although some features are missing in T5
but are back in T5.1 like multi zones)
* Performance is much better than with T4
T5 is a great platform for building applications!!!
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
--
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Lutz Hühnken <lh...@googlemail.com>.
http://www.toplicht.de
(Tapestry 4)
http://www.go7seas-kreuzfahrten.de
(Tapestry 5)
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Re: [REQUEST] Live T5 web sites, quotes, marketting
Posted by Andrew Court <an...@gmail.com>.
https://reservations.guestlogic.com/book?id=nz1
Although a work in progress, this site demonstrates the flexiblity of T5 to
integrate with other technologies. It's a hotel booking system that combines
T5, DWR, Spring and Velocity. With T5 it all just slots together. No fuss,
no bother.
Andrew Court
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
> I'm putting together some new presentations about Tapestry and I could
> use the help of the Tapestry community.
>
> I need more pictures of live T5 sites. Just send me a URL and I can
> do a screen grab. This is all about answering the question: "is it
> mature?"
>
> I make a number of reasonable observations about Tapestry 5, but would
> love quotes to back it up:
> - Fast and easy to develop
> - Helps with big teams
> - Great performance
> - Great internationalization / localization
> - Live class reloading gives "almost scripting language productivity"
>
>
> so quotes along the lines of "we were able to quickly put together
> xyz" or "we found qrstuv much easier than our last framework" or
> "would have been a failure without Tapestry". Don't let me put words
> in your mouth, however!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> Director of Open Source Technology at Formos
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
>
--
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