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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2012/01/12 06:33:30 UTC
Improviing quarterly reports
Joe Schaefer wrote:
> Let's stop discussing this issue in the abstract
Good idea. Lets be more specific, and put together something actionable.
> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
> Tashi, which has been incubating since 2008, writes exclusively about
> technical issues and really says zilch about their progress towards
> graduation.
We've repeatedly asked projects to focus on their graduation requirements.
What can we do to help push them in the right direction?
--- Noel
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
On Jan 11, 2012, at 10:44 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote:
> On 1/11/2012 11:54 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012, at 00:33, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>>>
>>> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
>>> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
>>> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
>>> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
>>> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
>>> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
>>
>> Is sending (satisfactory) reports to the IPMC the responsibility of the
>> mentors or of the PPMC?
>
> The project. Which means, the PPMC collectively, including its mentors.
>
> Optimally the mentors lead the first few times to an incoming community
> who isn't familiar with our reporting goals. They can pick it up from
> there. The goal of incubation is for the PPMC to (gradually) assume
> all of the tasks that a TLP is responsible for.
I would go a bit further. I think the mentors have the responsibility of saying "Hey, where is the report for me to sign?".
Ralph
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by "William A. Rowe Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On 1/11/2012 11:54 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012, at 00:33, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>>
>> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
>> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
>> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
>> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
>> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
>> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
>
> Is sending (satisfactory) reports to the IPMC the responsibility of the
> mentors or of the PPMC?
The project. Which means, the PPMC collectively, including its mentors.
Optimally the mentors lead the first few times to an incoming community
who isn't familiar with our reporting goals. They can pick it up from
there. The goal of incubation is for the PPMC to (gradually) assume
all of the tasks that a TLP is responsible for.
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012, at 00:33, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>
> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
Is sending (satisfactory) reports to the IPMC the responsibility of the
mentors or of the PPMC?
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
+1 for Sam's suggested actions below.
Ross
On 12 January 2012 13:30, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>
>>> Let's stop discussing this issue in the abstract
>>
>> Good idea. Lets be more specific, and put together something actionable.
>>
>>> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>>
>> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
>> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
>> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
>> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
>> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
>> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
>
> The board doesn't do that for Projects, and I don't see the need for
> such for podlings.
>
>>> Tashi, which has been incubating since 2008, writes exclusively about
>>> technical issues and really says zilch about their progress towards
>>> graduation.
>>
>> We've repeatedly asked projects to focus on their graduation requirements.
>> What can we do to help push them in the right direction?
>
> Reject the reports, and ask them to resubmit next month. If the
> pattern repeats, put them on a monthly schedule.
>
> If you have good mentors, they will catch on quick.
>
> If you find that you don't have any active mentors left, then that's
> the problem that needs to be addressed.
>
>> --- Noel
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
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--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 9:13 AM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> We've repeatedly asked projects to focus on their graduation requirements.
>>> What can we do to help push them in the right direction?
>>
>> Reject the reports, and ask them to resubmit next month. If the
>> pattern repeats, put them on a monthly schedule.
>
> If a TLP chair sends the board a report that doesn't include enough of
> the right detail what happens is they are sent a quiet and gentle
> reminder, eg [1] (for those with access to private lists). So no
> rejecting the report or requiring a resubmit. Couldn't an equally
> quiet and gentle approach with an email to the poddlings private list
> also be taken here, at least initially?
In the case described by Noel ("repeatedly asked projects"), I think
asking for a report again the next month (or three) is in order.
In the case described by Ant (at least in cases where it appears to be
a one time oversight), a quiet and gentle approach is appropriate.
> ...ant
>
> [1] https://mail-search.apache.org/members/private-arch/abdera-private/201105.mbox/%3C4DD551AC.9030907@shanecurcuru.org%3E
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>
>>> Let's stop discussing this issue in the abstract
>>
>> Good idea. Lets be more specific, and put together something actionable.
>>
>>> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>>
>> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
>> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
>> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
>> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
>> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
>> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
>
> The board doesn't do that for Projects, and I don't see the need for
> such for podlings.
>
>>> Tashi, which has been incubating since 2008, writes exclusively about
>>> technical issues and really says zilch about their progress towards
>>> graduation.
>>
>> We've repeatedly asked projects to focus on their graduation requirements.
>> What can we do to help push them in the right direction?
>
> Reject the reports, and ask them to resubmit next month. If the
> pattern repeats, put them on a monthly schedule.
>
If a TLP chair sends the board a report that doesn't include enough of
the right detail what happens is they are sent a quiet and gentle
reminder, eg [1] (for those with access to private lists). So no
rejecting the report or requiring a resubmit. Couldn't an equally
quiet and gentle approach with an email to the poddlings private list
also be taken here, at least initially?
...ant
[1] https://mail-search.apache.org/members/private-arch/abdera-private/201105.mbox/%3C4DD551AC.9030907@shanecurcuru.org%3E
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>> Let's stop discussing this issue in the abstract
>
> Good idea. Lets be more specific, and put together something actionable.
>
>> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>
> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
The board doesn't do that for Projects, and I don't see the need for
such for podlings.
>> Tashi, which has been incubating since 2008, writes exclusively about
>> technical issues and really says zilch about their progress towards
>> graduation.
>
> We've repeatedly asked projects to focus on their graduation requirements.
> What can we do to help push them in the right direction?
Reject the reports, and ask them to resubmit next month. If the
pattern repeats, put them on a monthly schedule.
If you have good mentors, they will catch on quick.
If you find that you don't have any active mentors left, then that's
the problem that needs to be addressed.
> --- Noel
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Improviing quarterly reports
Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever
>
> This has been an issue. Perhaps we need to put some teeth in the
> requirement, such as closing down commit access until reports are posted? I
> don't have an issue with saying that a project that does not report by the
> assigned cut-off date has its commit access turned off until the report is
> posted. Or, perhaps to give weight to your view that Mentors need to be
> more involved, until after it is signed off by a Mentor?
Maybe for serial offenders, but certainly not the first time a report
is missed. Sometimes reports are missed; it's just the way of things.
But we should do something about podlings who continually neglect to
report or report inadequately.
Greg
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