You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> on 2002/12/04 10:49:34 UTC
[VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase
(Re: How to move forward?)
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> I assume there will be multiple proposals going on
> in which case we can get things like;
> proposals/red
> proposals/blue
> proposals/green
> when one of them looks like it is a winner and has enough
> momentum split off a new CVS then.
>
>
> I've read Rules for Revolutionaries, too. But isn't the entire point of
> this exercise to move forward with ONE voice? I don't believe that
> institutionalizing factions is the best way to address that issue.
Agreed.
> The more I read the discussions here, the more it seems to me that the only
> thing that is going to get this community moving forward in unison is to
> have a single community container (scalable and profiled) under an Avalon
> CVS module, and preserve avalon-phoenix, avalon-excalibur/merlin, et al, for
> Avalon 4 container development while Avalon 5 is developed.
I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
nevertheless maintained.
+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>> I assume there will be multiple proposals going on
>> in which case we can get things like;
>> proposals/red
>> proposals/blue
>> proposals/green
>> when one of them looks like it is a winner and has enough
>> momentum split off a new CVS then.
>>
>>
>> I've read Rules for Revolutionaries, too. But isn't the entire point of
>> this exercise to move forward with ONE voice? I don't believe that
>> institutionalizing factions is the best way to address that issue.
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>> The more I read the discussions here, the more it seems to me that
>> the only
>> thing that is going to get this community moving forward in unison is to
>> have a single community container (scalable and profiled) under an
>> Avalon
>> CVS module, and preserve avalon-phoenix, avalon-excalibur/merlin, et
>> al, for
>> Avalon 4 container development while Avalon 5 is developed.
>
>
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the
> new Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when
> decided upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
+1
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods,
> and clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
"avalon" is what I think it should be (as distinct from our heritage
under jakarta-avalon)
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leif Mortenson <le...@tanukisoftware.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> new "avalon" CVS repository
Until it has matured a but, I think it should go into the sandbox. So I am
-1
Cheers,
Leif
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
> but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
> next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
> makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
>
> When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
> a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
> have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
>
> Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
I understand your point, and it's sensible and has good reasoning.
But IMHO we can also use the new avalon CVS instead of the sandbox dir
*exactly* with the same purpose, and have the history already there and
start from the initial commits. To make it clear we can put a WARNING
file in the main dir and in the docs there. Using the sandbox can also
confuse, since material in there can be or can also not be put in the
main repo, while here we are effectively creating the new repo. Tomcat 5
development is done in the new repo, not in a sandbox or the new one.
Just IMHO that is.
> regards,
>
> - Leo
>
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 10:49, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
-1 for same reasons as below.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:13, Leo Simons wrote:
> I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
> but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
> next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
> makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
>
> When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
> a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
> have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
>
> Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of nature, because
God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software
engineer.
- Fred Brooks, Jr.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
-1 for same reasons as below.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:13, Leo Simons wrote:
> I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
> but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
> next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
> makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
>
> When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
> a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
> have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
>
> Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of nature, because
God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software
engineer.
- Fred Brooks, Jr.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
-1 for same reasons as below.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 23:13, Leo Simons wrote:
> I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
> but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
> next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
> makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
>
> When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
> a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
> have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
>
> Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of nature, because
God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software
engineer.
- Fred Brooks, Jr.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
> but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
> next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
> makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
>
> When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
> a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
> have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
>
> Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
I understand your point, and it's sensible and has good reasoning.
But IMHO we can also use the new avalon CVS instead of the sandbox dir
*exactly* with the same purpose, and have the history already there and
start from the initial commits. To make it clear we can put a WARNING
file in the main dir and in the docs there. Using the sandbox can also
confuse, since material in there can be or can also not be put in the
main repo, while here we are effectively creating the new repo. Tomcat 5
development is done in the new repo, not in a sandbox or the new one.
Just IMHO that is.
> regards,
>
> - Leo
>
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 10:49, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Leo Simons wrote:
> I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
> but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
> next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
> makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
>
> When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
> a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
> have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
>
> Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
I understand your point, and it's sensible and has good reasoning.
But IMHO we can also use the new avalon CVS instead of the sandbox dir
*exactly* with the same purpose, and have the history already there and
start from the initial commits. To make it clear we can put a WARNING
file in the main dir and in the docs there. Using the sandbox can also
confuse, since material in there can be or can also not be put in the
main repo, while here we are effectively creating the new repo. Tomcat 5
development is done in the new repo, not in a sandbox or the new one.
Just IMHO that is.
> regards,
>
> - Leo
>
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 10:49, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
regards,
- Leo
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 10:49, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leif Mortenson <le...@tanukisoftware.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> new "avalon" CVS repository
Until it has matured a but, I think it should go into the sandbox. So I am
-1
Cheers,
Leif
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
regards,
- Leo
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 10:49, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>> I assume there will be multiple proposals going on
>> in which case we can get things like;
>> proposals/red
>> proposals/blue
>> proposals/green
>> when one of them looks like it is a winner and has enough
>> momentum split off a new CVS then.
>>
>>
>> I've read Rules for Revolutionaries, too. But isn't the entire point of
>> this exercise to move forward with ONE voice? I don't believe that
>> institutionalizing factions is the best way to address that issue.
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>> The more I read the discussions here, the more it seems to me that
>> the only
>> thing that is going to get this community moving forward in unison is to
>> have a single community container (scalable and profiled) under an
>> Avalon
>> CVS module, and preserve avalon-phoenix, avalon-excalibur/merlin, et
>> al, for
>> Avalon 4 container development while Avalon 5 is developed.
>
>
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the
> new Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when
> decided upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
+1
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods,
> and clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
"avalon" is what I think it should be (as distinct from our heritage
under jakarta-avalon)
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
I'm amendable on an "avalon" cvs containing next-generation material,
but we don't have any next-generation material yet. I think that the
next-gen stuff could/should be developed in avalon-sandbox cvs as it
makes quite clear what the status of that material is.
When we are ready to start a beta cycle of some kind on sandbox material
a new cvs might be a good idea. Until then, I think it is confusing to
have this repo, especially as it will/should be empty.
Hence I vote -1 for creating it right now.
regards,
- Leo
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 10:49, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
> From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
>
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> [...]
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to
>
> develop the
>
>>new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only
>
> when decided
>
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods,
>>and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
> Despite a feeling by some that a decision has been taken on this,
> current votes stand in a tie like this:
>
> o Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
> codebase
> +1: nicolaken, mcconnell
> +0: cziegeler
> -0: proyal
> -1: leosimons, leif
>
>
> Anyone else wants to say his?
>
>
> I think the deadlock (and the few votes) is reason enough to just hit
> the "pause" button on this voting for say, two-three days, and then
> try again. Let's have a go at the charter first, and then re-visit
> this one.
>
> Does that sound sensible?
More than sensible, I'm on the same track. :-)
> I am +1 for the new CVS (I think we should have an avalon CVS instead of
> a
> jakarta-avalon anyway), and I think that this new unified effort should
> have a CVS of its own (no need to have "proposal" directories and stuff
> like that + it doesn't make the new effort a sub-project of some
> existing module). OTOH, I am reflexively against creating "new
> playgrounds",
> maybe irrationally so. But the fact that this vote ran into a deadlock
> makes me not want to tip the balance.
I'll not put this vote in the STATUS file then myself, and wait till we
find more agreement on it. When you feel it's time to place your vote,
post it or commit it.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
>
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> [...]
> > I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to
> develop the
> > new
> > Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only
> when decided
> > upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
> >
> > This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods,
> > and
> > clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> > nevertheless maintained.
> >
> > +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
> >
> > Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> > avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
> Despite a feeling by some that a decision has been taken on this,
> current votes stand in a tie like this:
>
> o Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
> codebase
> +1: nicolaken, mcconnell
> +0: cziegeler
> -0: proyal
> -1: leosimons, leif
>
>
> Anyone else wants to say his?
I think the deadlock (and the few votes) is reason enough to just hit
the "pause" button on this voting for say, two-three days, and then
try again. Let's have a go at the charter first, and then re-visit
this one.
Does that sound sensible?
I am +1 for the new CVS (I think we should have an avalon CVS instead of
a
jakarta-avalon anyway), and I think that this new unified effort should
have a CVS of its own (no need to have "proposal" directories and stuff
like that + it doesn't make the new effort a sub-project of some
existing module). OTOH, I am reflexively against creating "new
playgrounds",
maybe irrationally so. But the fact that this vote ran into a deadlock
makes me not want to tip the balance.
/LS
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
[...]
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
Despite a feeling by some that a decision has been taken on this,
current votes stand in a tie like this:
o Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase
+1: nicolaken, mcconnell
+0: cziegeler
-0: proyal
-1: leosimons, leif
Anyone else wants to say his?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Leif Mortenson <le...@tanukisoftware.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> new "avalon" CVS repository
Until it has matured a but, I think it should go into the sandbox. So I am
-1
Cheers,
Leif
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>> I assume there will be multiple proposals going on
>> in which case we can get things like;
>> proposals/red
>> proposals/blue
>> proposals/green
>> when one of them looks like it is a winner and has enough
>> momentum split off a new CVS then.
>>
>>
>> I've read Rules for Revolutionaries, too. But isn't the entire point of
>> this exercise to move forward with ONE voice? I don't believe that
>> institutionalizing factions is the best way to address that issue.
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>> The more I read the discussions here, the more it seems to me that
>> the only
>> thing that is going to get this community moving forward in unison is to
>> have a single community container (scalable and profiled) under an
>> Avalon
>> CVS module, and preserve avalon-phoenix, avalon-excalibur/merlin, et
>> al, for
>> Avalon 4 container development while Avalon 5 is developed.
>
>
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the
> new Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when
> decided upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
+1
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods,
> and clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
"avalon" is what I think it should be (as distinct from our heritage
under jakarta-avalon)
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Peter Royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 04:49 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
I'm -0 on this.. what's wrong with the sandbox?
I do like Peter D's idea of having multiple proposal directories. Yes,
there will be one final solution chosen, but I don't think that should
preclude having multiple trees and approaches to view and hack on
during that decision making process. That way radical ideas can have a
place to be demonstrated to the community before the community adopting
them.
-peter
--
peter royal -> proyal@apache.org
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Peter Royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 04:49 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
I'm -0 on this.. what's wrong with the sandbox?
I do like Peter D's idea of having multiple proposal directories. Yes,
there will be one final solution chosen, but I don't think that should
preclude having multiple trees and approaches to view and hack on
during that decision making process. That way radical ideas can have a
place to be demonstrated to the community before the community adopting
them.
-peter
--
peter royal -> proyal@apache.org
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Peter Royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 04:49 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
I'm -0 on this.. what's wrong with the sandbox?
I do like Peter D's idea of having multiple proposal directories. Yes,
there will be one final solution chosen, but I don't think that should
preclude having multiple trees and approaches to view and hack on
during that decision making process. That way radical ideas can have a
place to be demonstrated to the community before the community adopting
them.
-peter
--
peter royal -> proyal@apache.org
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less
>>confusion.
>>
>>Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
>>something that necessarily affects compatibility.
>>
>
> Yes, you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone - especially
> users don't.
> But as I said (tried to say?) - a repository is ok for me.
Yup, I've counted your +0.
I took the opportunity to reply to your mail to expose my view a bit
better. Thank you :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less
>>confusion.
>>
>>Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
>>something that necessarily affects compatibility.
>>
>
> Yes, you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone - especially
> users don't.
> But as I said (tried to say?) - a repository is ok for me.
Yup, I've counted your +0.
I took the opportunity to reply to your mail to expose my view a bit
better. Thank you :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less
>>confusion.
>>
>>Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
>>something that necessarily affects compatibility.
>>
>
> Yes, you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone - especially
> users don't.
> But as I said (tried to say?) - a repository is ok for me.
Yup, I've counted your +0.
I took the opportunity to reply to your mail to expose my view a bit
better. Thank you :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
> > something that necessarily affects compatibility.
> you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone
> - especially users don't.
Such users generally don't care about CVS repositories at all. They care
about mailing lists, web sites, and release packages.
--- Noel
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
> > something that necessarily affects compatibility.
> you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone
> - especially users don't.
Such users generally don't care about CVS repositories at all. They care
about mailing lists, web sites, and release packages.
--- Noel
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
> > something that necessarily affects compatibility.
> you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone
> - especially users don't.
Such users generally don't care about CVS repositories at all. They care
about mailing lists, web sites, and release packages.
--- Noel
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less
> confusion.
>
> Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
> something that necessarily affects compatibility.
>
Yes, you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone - especially
users don't.
But as I said (tried to say?) - a repository is ok for me.
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less
> confusion.
>
> Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
> something that necessarily affects compatibility.
>
Yes, you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone - especially
users don't.
But as I said (tried to say?) - a repository is ok for me.
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less
> confusion.
>
> Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
> something that necessarily affects compatibility.
>
Yes, you know this and I know this, but I think not everyone - especially
users don't.
But as I said (tried to say?) - a repository is ok for me.
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>
> +0 - I'm not against it, but I'm not sure if it is worth creating
> a new repository, why not making a directory inside the existing
> repository with the same structure?
> Creating a new repository has the effect that people will think
> that it is something new (and incompatible) whether it is or not.
> So, I'm +1 for a separate directory within our repository.
avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less confusion.
Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
something that necessarily affects compatibility.
apache-1.2/
apache-1.3/
httpd-2.0/
jakarta-tomcat/
jakarta-tomcat-4.0/
jakarta-tomcat-5/
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
>
> That's true.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>
> +0 - I'm not against it, but I'm not sure if it is worth creating
> a new repository, why not making a directory inside the existing
> repository with the same structure?
> Creating a new repository has the effect that people will think
> that it is something new (and incompatible) whether it is or not.
> So, I'm +1 for a separate directory within our repository.
avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less confusion.
Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
something that necessarily affects compatibility.
apache-1.2/
apache-1.3/
httpd-2.0/
jakarta-tomcat/
jakarta-tomcat-4.0/
jakarta-tomcat-5/
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
>
> That's true.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5
codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>>I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
>>Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
>>upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>>
>>This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
>>clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
>>nevertheless maintained.
>>
>>+1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>>
>
> +0 - I'm not against it, but I'm not sure if it is worth creating
> a new repository, why not making a directory inside the existing
> repository with the same structure?
> Creating a new repository has the effect that people will think
> that it is something new (and incompatible) whether it is or not.
> So, I'm +1 for a separate directory within our repository.
avalon-sandbox was created nevertheless, and IMHO it creates less confusion.
Tomcat or Apache for example use new CVSes for new versions, it's not
something that necessarily affects compatibility.
apache-1.2/
apache-1.3/
httpd-2.0/
jakarta-tomcat/
jakarta-tomcat-4.0/
jakarta-tomcat-5/
>>Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
>>avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
>
>
> That's true.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
+0 - I'm not against it, but I'm not sure if it is worth creating
a new repository, why not making a directory inside the existing
repository with the same structure?
Creating a new repository has the effect that people will think
that it is something new (and incompatible) whether it is or not.
So, I'm +1 for a separate directory within our repository.
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
That's true.
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
+0 - I'm not against it, but I'm not sure if it is worth creating
a new repository, why not making a directory inside the existing
repository with the same structure?
Creating a new repository has the effect that people will think
that it is something new (and incompatible) whether it is or not.
So, I'm +1 for a separate directory within our repository.
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
That's true.
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
RE: [VOTE] Creation of an "avalon" CVS repository for new Avalon5 codebase (Re: How to move forward?)
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> I propose we have a new "avalon" CVS repository where to develop the new
> Avalon5 system. Things will be discussed and committed only when decided
> upon, and still eventually changed when again decided upon.
>
> This will make us do a clear cut with previous development methods, and
> clearly indicate that it's a new effort and that the old will be
> nevertheless maintained.
>
> +1 for a new "avalon" CVS repository
>
+0 - I'm not against it, but I'm not sure if it is worth creating
a new repository, why not making a directory inside the existing
repository with the same structure?
Creating a new repository has the effect that people will think
that it is something new (and incompatible) whether it is or not.
So, I'm +1 for a separate directory within our repository.
> Alternatively it can be called avalon5, avalonV, aValon, avalon-5,
> avalon-ng... the important thing is that it's there.
That's true.
Carsten
Carsten Ziegeler
Open Source Group, S&N AG
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>