You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to community@apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2002/12/31 21:52:38 UTC
[FYI] Cocoon Wiki
The Cocoon Project was the first to setup a wiki system. You can find it on
http://wiki.cocoondev.org
It has been recently 'forrestized' and its effectiveness in creating new
useful content has been impressive and over our own expectations.
Also, being implemented in Java, it makes it easier for the cocoon
community (which is generally perl-agnostic).
NOTE: this wiki has been setup more than a month *before* the ASF wiki
was in place.
But today, I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
us).
Also, having a project-specific wiki helps a lot the community oversight
issues that we were discussing before. In fact, we'll probably be adding
direct wiki-diffs emails to the cocoon-docs@ mail list.
I'm telling you this just to let you know. I'm not asking for actions or
anything, just pointing out that many different things are happening in
wikiland these days (probably influenced by the concept of weblogging?
might be)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> NOTE: this wiki has been setup more than a month *before* the ASF wiki
> was in place.
Isn't it fun when they are talking behind your back ;)
The Cocoon Wiki went live start of August 2002, actually.
> But today, I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
> to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
> the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
> us).
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/2002/12/27.html#a114 re: migration
issues (and a small comment discussion between ACO and me about
'political correctness') - more specifically, we went at some length
making sure people knew they were contributing to an ASF project when
adding content to the Wiki: http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=License
HTH,
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Do note that I don't mind other forms of wiki. I picked this one
> arbitrarily. I picked it because Andy Hunt runs it on his site
> (http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?HomePage)
Hey, any reason will do. You proposed, you installed, so you get to
choose. Technology discussions are boring :)
The 'lucky thing' with the Cocoon Wiki was Leigh Dodds jumping in and
adding heaps of high quality content he already created in his private
Wiki only _minutes_ after me setting up the JSPWiki instance. I'm pretty
lucky actually that JSPWiki can take the load, since I didn't thoroughly
tested it before choosing it :)
<snip/>
> If folks feel like they want to install and volunteer to maintain
> another wiki, and they're sure its secure, can be feasibly set up with
> meager resource requirements
> (no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind
> cocoondev and its running Linux and not FreeBSD which is a BIG plus for
> Java), then I'm
> not intending to get in the way.... You just need to be sure you know
> the answers:
<blush/> cocoondev.org, i.e. all of http://cocoondev.org/sites.html is
running on an single CPU Intel P4 2GHz, 1 Gig RAM, 80Gig HD, which is
_much_ lower-grade than nagoya IIUC.
<snip/>
> <veryserious>
> Those are higher priority than Cool Feature X....
> </veryserious>
Totally agree. For the specific context where the Cocoon Wiki lives in,
I can only say it hasn't let me down so far - which doesn't guarantee
anything w.r.t. scalability however.
The good thing about all this, is that I went to the Apache Wiki little
time after it was installed, and saw somebody already had been kind
enough to reference the 'real' _Cocoon_ Wiki at
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?CocoonProjectPages
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
RE: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind
> cocoondev
According to the machines page, Nagoya is a Sun E4500. I don't have any
more clue than that (would be curious to know the actual configuration), but
E4500s tend to be pretty powerful beasts.
--- Noel
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF
>> Wiki?
>
>
> Yeah, well, I think so. I already provides RSS feeds, much better
> structured content support, I find it more usable and it's java so for
> me it's a plus (but I understand that for others might be a minus so I
> won't emphasize that here)
>
Do note that I don't mind other forms of wiki. I picked this one
arbitrarily. I picked it because Andy Hunt runs it on his site
(http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?HomePage)
It ran nice and stable like, didn't require any maintenance, no
databases, etc... Just set the data dir, config any options and you're
done.
The point of a wiki is simplicity. My only caution... lot of folks have
a tendency to extend the capabilities and flexibilities such that it no
longer is useful anymore. Those wikis die. The most successful wikis
are bascially kept simple. The only enhancement I see myself making
is tables because I don't think those are so hard and boy they are sure
useful... Granted they can be overused so I understand the arguments
against...
(see this page for a good argument for tables:
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/jugwiki.pl?HowToUseJavaCollections
- don't that look pretty ;-) )
If folks feel like they want to install and volunteer to maintain
another wiki, and they're sure its secure, can be feasibly set up with
meager resource requirements
(no idea what nagoya is but Steven has a pretty fat server behind
cocoondev and its running Linux and not FreeBSD which is a BIG plus for
Java), then I'm
not intending to get in the way.... You just need to be sure you know
the answers:
* Will it scale if the wiki becomes widely used and syndicated (UseMod:
yes)
* Will it require more maintenance than is feesible in a volunteer run
organization (UseMod: no)
* Is it secure from a exploit my system and bring apache to its knees
standpoint (UseMod: yes)
* Does it keep it simple stupid (meaning complex markup and flexibility
is nice but can be counter-productive, wiki's excel on simplicity) --
(UseMod: yes, very)
* Can it be feasibly set up given the amount of Cat Herding that is
necessary to come to a decision and acquire rights, karma and resources
-- (UseMod: obviously)
<sarcasm>
And if you're going to have the usual heated discussion (No I want a
PyWiki and bla bla bla) before reaching a decision....
</sarcasm>
* Can you migrate the data over feasibly -- (UseMod: obviously)
<veryserious>
Those are higher priority than Cool Feature X....
</veryserious>
-Andy
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
>>to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
>>the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
>>us).
>
>
> Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF Wiki?
Yeah, well, I think so. I already provides RSS feeds, much better
structured content support, I find it more usable and it's java so for
me it's a plus (but I understand that for others might be a minus so I
won't emphasize that here)
> Does anyone really care about usemodwiki other than that "it's there and it
> works"? As far as I know, Andrew just saw the interest and *did* something
> about it, for which kudos are deserved.
Oh, totally.
>>Also, having a project-specific wiki helps a lot the community oversight
>>issues that we were discussing before. In fact, we'll probably be adding
>>direct wiki-diffs emails to the cocoon-docs@ mail list.
>
> Push notification is my primary issue with a wiki in the context of group
> development.
I think Andy has a pretty good point about security, though... see next
email.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>Nagoya is Solaris, I'd *hope* a java based wiki should work alright there
>;-)
>-Thom
>
>
Ahh .. .yes I discovered this the other day..hadn't noticed at first.
Then I noticed that I hadn't had
any peculiarities....just quirks...
Anyhow, I don't really plan to install another wiki.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewikitest.cgi?WhyThisWiki
-Andy
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>You know about Java and FreeBSD right?
>>
>>
>
>What about it, other than that it is 1.3.1 and the build here doesn't
>include the JIT?
>
>
Apparently there are problems with threading among other things. All in
all Java and FreeBSD do not
AFAIK do not seem to constitute a stable or robust environment when used
together. Though I've
admittedly acquired a distate for FreeBSD. I guess its better than
windows, but it would not be my
first choice, especially for Java apps.
> --- Noel
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
RE: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> You know about Java and FreeBSD right?
What about it, other than that it is 1.3.1 and the build here doesn't
include the JIT?
--- Noel
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by Thom May <th...@planetarytramp.net>.
* Andrew C. Oliver (acoliver@apache.org) wrote :
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> >>I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
> >>to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
> >>the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
> >>us).
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF Wiki?
> >Does anyone really care about usemodwiki other than that "it's there and it
> >works"? As far as I know, Andrew just saw the interest and *did* something
> >about it, for which kudos are deserved.
> >
> >
> You know about Java and FreeBSD right?
>
Nagoya is Solaris, I'd *hope* a java based wiki should work alright there
;-)
-Thom
Re: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
>>to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
>>the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
>>us).
>>
>>
>
>Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF Wiki?
>Does anyone really care about usemodwiki other than that "it's there and it
>works"? As far as I know, Andrew just saw the interest and *did* something
>about it, for which kudos are deserved.
>
>
You know about Java and FreeBSD right?
If someone wishes to install a different wiki that is more featureful I
don't care...however they must assume
the responsibility of maintaining it.
>>Also, having a project-specific wiki helps a lot the community oversight
>>issues that we were discussing before. In fact, we'll probably be adding
>>direct wiki-diffs emails to the cocoon-docs@ mail list.
>>
>>
>
>Push notification is my primary issue with a wiki in the context of group
>development.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
RE: [FYI] Cocoon Wiki
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> I'd find myself very unconfortable to force the cocoon people
> to move into the ASF wiki (migration issues aside) since it doesn't have
> the appeal and the features that our current wiki does (at least to many
> us).
Does JSPWiki v2 provide all of the features necessary to host the ASF Wiki?
Does anyone really care about usemodwiki other than that "it's there and it
works"? As far as I know, Andrew just saw the interest and *did* something
about it, for which kudos are deserved.
> Also, having a project-specific wiki helps a lot the community oversight
> issues that we were discussing before. In fact, we'll probably be adding
> direct wiki-diffs emails to the cocoon-docs@ mail list.
Push notification is my primary issue with a wiki in the context of group
development.
--- Noel