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Posted to java-dev@axis.apache.org by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com> on 2007/10/07 21:30:15 UTC
Infoset / TCP transport
Guys
We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
Paul
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
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Re: Infoset / TCP transport
Posted by Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com>.
I'd also thought DIME was in Axis2, but didn't see it in the codebase.
The Axis2 TCP support is definitely not DIME-based - it just uses a
separate socket connection for each request.
- Dennis
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> I like your approach. Too many "performance enhancing" projects founder on
> not actually seeing what works and what doesn't.
> For some reason I thought there was already work on DIME and TCP in Axis2.
> But I've never actually looked at the code so I'm probably wrong.
>
> Paul
>
> On 10/8/07, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure, I think that could be an excellent idea.
>>
>> On binary XML, the W3C EXI group (http://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/) is likely
>> to be the long-term winner. Sun's "Fast Infoset" has never seemed all
>> that fast in tests I've seen (including when used with Axis2), but if
>> you're looking for a short-term solution my own XBIS
>> (http://www.xbis.org) is a simpler alternative. When I added XBIS
>> encoding to my old JibxSoap code I more than doubled performance. Right
>> now I have it structured so JiBX can output directly to XBIS and read
>> directly from XBIS; if I extend this to include a StAX wrapper it should
>> be usable directly with Axis2. It'd be interesting to see how much
>> benefit that provided, vs. "Fast Infoset".
>>
>> On the TCP model, I'm currently implementing a simple DIME-based
>> approach for my own work. However, that does not allow for sharing the
>> socket connection (something that both Sun's approach and the .Net 3.0
>> net.tcp technique support). I'm going to try some tests to see how much
>> benefit you actually get from sharing the socket connection. Offhand I'd
>> think the gains would be pretty small, but if they're significant that's
>> probably worth doing. DIME doesn't support that directly, but could
>> easily be extended to do so.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>>
>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>
>>> I hate to suggest something new (NIH) but maybe we could start an open
>>> discussion and forum on what would make a good BinaryXML/TCP model?
>>> If we came up with something significantly better then it would be worth
>>> doing.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On 10/8/07, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>
>>>> I think it's an interesting possibility. I've been trying to find out
>>>> what .Net is currently using for their net.tcp transport, but that's
>>>> proving difficult. The Sun proposal is at least well-defined.
>>>>
>>>> I wish they'd asked for comments and started a discussion rather than
>>>> just making something up, though. Some parts seem lame, such as using
>>>> nibble encoding, and requiring a response message for every request
>>>> message (not necessarily appropriate with WS-Addressing involved). It's
>>>> also a bit heavy-weight, with a SOAP service request to open a channel.
>>>>
>>>> - Dennis
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dennis M. Sosnoski
>>>> SOA and Web Services in Java
>>>> Axis2 Training and Consulting
>>>> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
>>>> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Guys
>>>>>
>>>>> We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
>>>>> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Infoset / TCP transport
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
I like your approach. Too many "performance enhancing" projects founder on
not actually seeing what works and what doesn't.
For some reason I thought there was already work on DIME and TCP in Axis2.
But I've never actually looked at the code so I'm probably wrong.
Paul
On 10/8/07, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>
> Sure, I think that could be an excellent idea.
>
> On binary XML, the W3C EXI group (http://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/) is likely
> to be the long-term winner. Sun's "Fast Infoset" has never seemed all
> that fast in tests I've seen (including when used with Axis2), but if
> you're looking for a short-term solution my own XBIS
> (http://www.xbis.org) is a simpler alternative. When I added XBIS
> encoding to my old JibxSoap code I more than doubled performance. Right
> now I have it structured so JiBX can output directly to XBIS and read
> directly from XBIS; if I extend this to include a StAX wrapper it should
> be usable directly with Axis2. It'd be interesting to see how much
> benefit that provided, vs. "Fast Infoset".
>
> On the TCP model, I'm currently implementing a simple DIME-based
> approach for my own work. However, that does not allow for sharing the
> socket connection (something that both Sun's approach and the .Net 3.0
> net.tcp technique support). I'm going to try some tests to see how much
> benefit you actually get from sharing the socket connection. Offhand I'd
> think the gains would be pretty small, but if they're significant that's
> probably worth doing. DIME doesn't support that directly, but could
> easily be extended to do so.
>
> - Dennis
>
>
> Paul Fremantle wrote:
> > I hate to suggest something new (NIH) but maybe we could start an open
> > discussion and forum on what would make a good BinaryXML/TCP model?
> > If we came up with something significantly better then it would be worth
> > doing.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > On 10/8/07, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> I think it's an interesting possibility. I've been trying to find out
> >> what .Net is currently using for their net.tcp transport, but that's
> >> proving difficult. The Sun proposal is at least well-defined.
> >>
> >> I wish they'd asked for comments and started a discussion rather than
> >> just making something up, though. Some parts seem lame, such as using
> >> nibble encoding, and requiring a response message for every request
> >> message (not necessarily appropriate with WS-Addressing involved). It's
> >> also a bit heavy-weight, with a SOAP service request to open a channel.
> >>
> >> - Dennis
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dennis M. Sosnoski
> >> SOA and Web Services in Java
> >> Axis2 Training and Consulting
> >> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
> >> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul Fremantle wrote:
> >>
> >>> Guys
> >>>
> >>> We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
> >>> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
Re: Infoset / TCP transport
Posted by Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com>.
Sure, I think that could be an excellent idea.
On binary XML, the W3C EXI group (http://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/) is likely
to be the long-term winner. Sun's "Fast Infoset" has never seemed all
that fast in tests I've seen (including when used with Axis2), but if
you're looking for a short-term solution my own XBIS
(http://www.xbis.org) is a simpler alternative. When I added XBIS
encoding to my old JibxSoap code I more than doubled performance. Right
now I have it structured so JiBX can output directly to XBIS and read
directly from XBIS; if I extend this to include a StAX wrapper it should
be usable directly with Axis2. It'd be interesting to see how much
benefit that provided, vs. "Fast Infoset".
On the TCP model, I'm currently implementing a simple DIME-based
approach for my own work. However, that does not allow for sharing the
socket connection (something that both Sun's approach and the .Net 3.0
net.tcp technique support). I'm going to try some tests to see how much
benefit you actually get from sharing the socket connection. Offhand I'd
think the gains would be pretty small, but if they're significant that's
probably worth doing. DIME doesn't support that directly, but could
easily be extended to do so.
- Dennis
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> I hate to suggest something new (NIH) but maybe we could start an open
> discussion and forum on what would make a good BinaryXML/TCP model?
> If we came up with something significantly better then it would be worth
> doing.
>
> Paul
>
> On 10/8/07, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I think it's an interesting possibility. I've been trying to find out
>> what .Net is currently using for their net.tcp transport, but that's
>> proving difficult. The Sun proposal is at least well-defined.
>>
>> I wish they'd asked for comments and started a discussion rather than
>> just making something up, though. Some parts seem lame, such as using
>> nibble encoding, and requiring a response message for every request
>> message (not necessarily appropriate with WS-Addressing involved). It's
>> also a bit heavy-weight, with a SOAP service request to open a channel.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>> --
>> Dennis M. Sosnoski
>> SOA and Web Services in Java
>> Axis2 Training and Consulting
>> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
>> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>
>>> Guys
>>>
>>> We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
>>> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Infoset / TCP transport
Posted by Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>.
I hate to suggest something new (NIH) but maybe we could start an open
discussion and forum on what would make a good BinaryXML/TCP model?
If we came up with something significantly better then it would be worth
doing.
Paul
On 10/8/07, Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I think it's an interesting possibility. I've been trying to find out
> what .Net is currently using for their net.tcp transport, but that's
> proving difficult. The Sun proposal is at least well-defined.
>
> I wish they'd asked for comments and started a discussion rather than
> just making something up, though. Some parts seem lame, such as using
> nibble encoding, and requiring a response message for every request
> message (not necessarily appropriate with WS-Addressing involved). It's
> also a bit heavy-weight, with a SOAP service request to open a channel.
>
> - Dennis
>
> --
> Dennis M. Sosnoski
> SOA and Web Services in Java
> Axis2 Training and Consulting
> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
> Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
>
>
>
> Paul Fremantle wrote:
> > Guys
> >
> > We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
> > http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
Re: Infoset / TCP transport
Posted by Dennis Sosnoski <dm...@sosnoski.com>.
Hi Paul,
I think it's an interesting possibility. I've been trying to find out
what .Net is currently using for their net.tcp transport, but that's
proving difficult. The Sun proposal is at least well-defined.
I wish they'd asked for comments and started a discussion rather than
just making something up, though. Some parts seem lame, such as using
nibble encoding, and requiring a response message for every request
message (not necessarily appropriate with WS-Addressing involved). It's
also a bit heavy-weight, with a SOAP service request to open a channel.
- Dennis
--
Dennis M. Sosnoski
SOA and Web Services in Java
Axis2 Training and Consulting
http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz
Seattle, WA +1-425-939-0576 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Guys
>
> We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
>
> Paul
>
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Re: Infoset / TCP transport
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
> Guys
>
> We should develop a compatible transport to this transport:
> http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/10/soap-tcp-wcf
>
> Paul
>
>
+1 , the TCP transport we have at the moment is not that good and we can
not recommend that for enterprise level usage.
Thanks
Deepal
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