GSoC Mentor ACK for PPMC vs Incubator PMC

[Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>]

Hi All,

Since there will be significant Incubator PPMC mentors, I will start a broader discussion on this topic. Please be cautious, I am cc’ing a private list and a public list, please only contain this thread to the topic and do not discuss any student proposals or other sensitive GSOC discussions on this thread. 

There seems to be a confusion on who should send ACK for mentors from Incubator projects. Refer to GSOC guides on com-dev site [1] for additional information.

I think its time for us to refresh our memories on why PMC acknowledging is needed in the first place. Here is my take:

* The PMC ACK serves as the filter to make sure mentors are part of the proposed project. The key here is for a mentor to be able to commit the student contributions, but also is knowledgable enough on the proposed project. An ACK from a fellow PMC member confirms the same.

* The PMC ACK also serves as a mechanism for the PMC as whole to be aware of the project being proposed. This is very important. If the mentor gets busy with life, the student should not be left under water, others on the projects should be able to pick up the slack.

A question often comes up: can a non-PMC and a non-Committer be a mentor? The reasoning often give is: they have been contributing to the project from a while and know enough to mentor a GSOC project but is officially not a committer. This question should be re-directed to the PMC, if someone is actively contributing to the project and can guide a GSOC project, they probably should have earned commit access by now or even better, be part of the PMC, time to fix that first. 

Secondly, lot of mentors self-acknowledge their request, they can rightfully do so since they are part go the PMC. This is not bad since the PMC list is cc’ed and lazy consensus can be assumed. But its not onerous to expect a three letter reply from others on the PMC which will ensure the community has interests in the project and not just a single mentor. 

Its important to understand that GSOC is about teaching students to contribute to open source and community is a big part of it. A single point of contact (mentor) ensures they will be guided, but it is not a mentor-student training excise. A good mentor should teach the students to work with the community and not just themselves.  

With this long background, my personal opinion for Incubator projects is to expect PPMC to acknowledge the mentor. If we go by the rule book, Incubator PMC should ACK the request, but in many cases the IPMC may not be able to step up and help the student with technical details but others on the PPMC will have a much better success at it. 

Finally, these are my opinions to make us think on the goals of a process which should take precedence over rule book. But Uli Stark as the ASF GSOC org admin reserves the final call on what he will require to validate mentors. 

Suresh
[1] - http://community.apache.org/ <http://community.apache.org/>

Re: GSoC Mentor ACK for PPMC vs Incubator PMC

[Till Westmann <ti...@apache.org>]

On 10 Mar 2016, at 9:23, Suresh Marru wrote:

> With this long background, my personal opinion for Incubator projects 
> is to expect PPMC to acknowledge the mentor. If we go by the rule 
> book, Incubator PMC should ACK the request, but in many cases the IPMC 
> may not be able to step up and help the student with technical details 
> but others on the PPMC will have a much better success at it.

+1

Till

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Re: GSoC Mentor ACK for PPMC vs Incubator PMC

[Ulrich Stärk <ul...@apache.org>]

> Am 10.03.2016 um 18:23 schrieb Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Since there will be significant Incubator PPMC mentors, I will start a broader discussion on this topic. Please be cautious, I am cc’ing a private list and a public list, please only contain this thread to the topic and do not discuss any student proposals or other sensitive GSOC discussions on this thread. 
> 
> There seems to be a confusion on who should send ACK for mentors from Incubator projects. Refer to GSOC guides on com-dev site [1] for additional information.
> 
> I think its time for us to refresh our memories on why PMC acknowledging is needed in the first place. Here is my take:
> 
> * The PMC ACK serves as the filter to make sure mentors are part of the proposed project. The key here is for a mentor to be able to commit the student contributions, but also is knowledgable enough on the proposed project. An ACK from a fellow PMC member confirms the same.
> 
> * The PMC ACK also serves as a mechanism for the PMC as whole to be aware of the project being proposed. This is very important. If the mentor gets busy with life, the student should not be left under water, others on the projects should be able to pick up the slack.
> 
> A question often comes up: can a non-PMC and a non-Committer be a mentor? The reasoning often give is: they have been contributing to the project from a while and know enough to mentor a GSOC project but is officially not a committer. This question should be re-directed to the PMC, if someone is actively contributing to the project and can guide a GSOC project, they probably should have earned commit access by now or even better, be part of the PMC, time to fix that first. 
> 
> Secondly, lot of mentors self-acknowledge their request, they can rightfully do so since they are part go the PMC. This is not bad since the PMC list is cc’ed and lazy consensus can be assumed. But its not onerous to expect a three letter reply from others on the PMC which will ensure the community has interests in the project and not just a single mentor. 
> 
> Its important to understand that GSOC is about teaching students to contribute to open source and community is a big part of it. A single point of contact (mentor) ensures they will be guided, but it is not a mentor-student training excise. A good mentor should teach the students to work with the community and not just themselves.  
> 
> With this long background, my personal opinion for Incubator projects is to expect PPMC to acknowledge the mentor. If we go by the rule book, Incubator PMC should ACK the request, but in many cases the IPMC may not be able to step up and help the student with technical details but others on the PPMC will have a much better success at it. 
> 
> Finally, these are my opinions to make us think on the goals of a process which should take precedence over rule book. But Uli Stark as the ASF GSOC org admin reserves the final call on what he will require to validate mentors. 
> 
> Suresh
> [1] - http://community.apache.org/
> 
> 

Thanks Suresh,

Excellent summary nothing more to add from my side.

And to answer that specific question, unless somebody convinces me otherwise I'm totally fine with PPMC acks.

Cheers,

Uli