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Posted to fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org by br...@lowagie.com on 2002/03/12 09:27:14 UTC
merging two libraries
Hello all,
I'm not familiar with FOP, but I can't help noticing
that people are moving from FOP to iText and vice versa.
As original developer of iText, a JAVA-PDF library, I already
proposed you guys at Apache twice to join forces and to combine
both libraries. I now subscribe to this mailing list only to
ask you a third time to reconsider your refusal.
Please read these mails from some iText/FOP users:
http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/8175/0/8071577/
http://www.mail-archive.com/itext-questions%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg00491
.html
Please send your answers to the iText mailing list.
You don't need to subscribe, I will pass them through.
Remark: sorry, but due to the lack of time to read all
my mail as it is, I will now unsubscribe from the FOP
mailing list.
kind regards,
Bruno Lowagie
RE: merging two libraries
Posted by Arved Sandstrom <Ar...@chebucto.ns.ca>.
OK, thanks. The messages certainly don't indicate that we turned down any
proposal, per se. I happened to be talking about PDFLib and CLibPDF
specifically in one referenced message, but Fotis (and others) were talking
about the others, and the idea is all the same. It sure looks to me like we
were looking specifically at integration, but I don't recall that we were
talking about _inclusion_. It was as straightforward as saying, "do we have
good interfaces for allowing other PDF producers to be used, and if not, do
we want to?"
The main thing, though, is that I think this issue just died. Nobody had
very strong opinions. We had PDF code all along that met the needs of the
moment. No argument that other PDF libraries may have done specific things
better all along, or maybe many things better, but we never (as I recall)
found the PDF generation side of things to be a major problem. It's always
been property handling and layout.
Regards,
AHS
-----Original Message-----
From: Keiron Liddle [mailto:keiron@aftexsw.com]
Sent: March 12, 2002 7:14 AM
To: fop-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: merging two libraries
The references that I found are:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fop-dev&m=86952068309324&w=2
and
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fop-dev&m=86952068308872&w=2
both over 2 years ago.
On 2002.03.12 11:56 Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> I can't seem to usefully search the archive (no search terms have any
> apparent effect), so I'll just have to assume that we did talk about it.
> If
> someone has the URL and/or search terms that actually work then I can
> revisit, but in the meantime it doesn't ring a bell that we at any time
> flat-out refused to "join forces", so to speak. I am not saying we didn't
> give that appearance, but I don't remember anything that positive.
>
> So I second Keiron in asking, what kind of useful cooperation do you
> propose?
>
> I've been aware of iText for quite a while - I tried it out when it was
> still rugPDF - and I'll speculate that if anything was a question at an
> earlier time that perhaps there was no clear idea of how iText would help
> FOP. And that statement would have to be interpreted in the light of what
> iText offered at the time. I'm prepared to accept that the PDF rendering
> capabilities of iText have gotten considerably better in the meantime,
> and
> it makes sense to look at the matter again. IMO.
>
> Regards,
> Arved Sandstrom
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Re: merging two libraries
Posted by Keiron Liddle <ke...@aftexsw.com>.
The references that I found are:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fop-dev&m=86952068309324&w=2
and
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fop-dev&m=86952068308872&w=2
both over 2 years ago.
On 2002.03.12 11:56 Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> I can't seem to usefully search the archive (no search terms have any
> apparent effect), so I'll just have to assume that we did talk about it.
> If
> someone has the URL and/or search terms that actually work then I can
> revisit, but in the meantime it doesn't ring a bell that we at any time
> flat-out refused to "join forces", so to speak. I am not saying we didn't
> give that appearance, but I don't remember anything that positive.
>
> So I second Keiron in asking, what kind of useful cooperation do you
> propose?
>
> I've been aware of iText for quite a while - I tried it out when it was
> still rugPDF - and I'll speculate that if anything was a question at an
> earlier time that perhaps there was no clear idea of how iText would help
> FOP. And that statement would have to be interpreted in the light of what
> iText offered at the time. I'm prepared to accept that the PDF rendering
> capabilities of iText have gotten considerably better in the meantime,
> and
> it makes sense to look at the matter again. IMO.
>
> Regards,
> Arved Sandstrom
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RE: merging two libraries
Posted by Arved Sandstrom <Ar...@chebucto.ns.ca>.
I can't seem to usefully search the archive (no search terms have any
apparent effect), so I'll just have to assume that we did talk about it. If
someone has the URL and/or search terms that actually work then I can
revisit, but in the meantime it doesn't ring a bell that we at any time
flat-out refused to "join forces", so to speak. I am not saying we didn't
give that appearance, but I don't remember anything that positive.
So I second Keiron in asking, what kind of useful cooperation do you
propose?
I've been aware of iText for quite a while - I tried it out when it was
still rugPDF - and I'll speculate that if anything was a question at an
earlier time that perhaps there was no clear idea of how iText would help
FOP. And that statement would have to be interpreted in the light of what
iText offered at the time. I'm prepared to accept that the PDF rendering
capabilities of iText have gotten considerably better in the meantime, and
it makes sense to look at the matter again. IMO.
Regards,
Arved Sandstrom
-----Original Message-----
From: Keiron Liddle [mailto:keiron@aftexsw.com]
Sent: March 12, 2002 4:53 AM
To: fop-user@xml.apache.org
Cc: fop-dev@xml.apache.org; itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: merging two libraries
Hi,
From the archives it appears that the discussion on the fop-dev list was
about 2 years ago (no apparent refusal though). It is certainly time to
revisit.
From the small amount of information I know about iText it would appear
to be a more advanced pdf library.
I don't know what the license issues might be.
What sort of joining forces are you proposing?
Please send to the fop-dev list for further discussion.
Regards,
Keiron.
On 2002.03.12 09:27 bruno@lowagie.com wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm not familiar with FOP, but I can't help noticing
> that people are moving from FOP to iText and vice versa. As original
> developer of iText, a JAVA-PDF library, I already
> proposed you guys at Apache twice to join forces and to combine
> both libraries. I now subscribe to this mailing list only to
> ask you a third time to reconsider your refusal. Please read these mails
> from some iText/FOP users:
> http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/8175/0/8071577/
>
http://www.mail-archive.com/itext-questions%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg00491
> .html Please send your answers to the iText mailing list.
> You don't need to subscribe, I will pass them through.
> Remark: sorry, but due to the lack of time to read all
> my mail as it is, I will now unsubscribe from the FOP
> mailing list. kind regards,
> Bruno Lowagie
Re: merging two libraries
Posted by Keiron Liddle <ke...@aftexsw.com>.
Hi,
From the archives it appears that the discussion on the fop-dev list was
about 2 years ago (no apparent refusal though). It is certainly time to
revisit.
From the small amount of information I know about iText it would appear
to be a more advanced pdf library.
I don't know what the license issues might be.
What sort of joining forces are you proposing?
Please send to the fop-dev list for further discussion.
Regards,
Keiron.
On 2002.03.12 09:27 bruno@lowagie.com wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm not familiar with FOP, but I can't help noticing
> that people are moving from FOP to iText and vice versa. As original
> developer of iText, a JAVA-PDF library, I already
> proposed you guys at Apache twice to join forces and to combine
> both libraries. I now subscribe to this mailing list only to
> ask you a third time to reconsider your refusal. Please read these mails
> from some iText/FOP users:
> http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/8175/0/8071577/
> http://www.mail-archive.com/itext-questions%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg00491
> .html Please send your answers to the iText mailing list.
> You don't need to subscribe, I will pass them through.
> Remark: sorry, but due to the lack of time to read all
> my mail as it is, I will now unsubscribe from the FOP
> mailing list. kind regards,
> Bruno Lowagie
Re: merging two libraries
Posted by Keiron Liddle <ke...@aftexsw.com>.
Hi,
From the archives it appears that the discussion on the fop-dev list was
about 2 years ago (no apparent refusal though). It is certainly time to
revisit.
From the small amount of information I know about iText it would appear
to be a more advanced pdf library.
I don't know what the license issues might be.
What sort of joining forces are you proposing?
Please send to the fop-dev list for further discussion.
Regards,
Keiron.
On 2002.03.12 09:27 bruno@lowagie.com wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm not familiar with FOP, but I can't help noticing
> that people are moving from FOP to iText and vice versa. As original
> developer of iText, a JAVA-PDF library, I already
> proposed you guys at Apache twice to join forces and to combine
> both libraries. I now subscribe to this mailing list only to
> ask you a third time to reconsider your refusal. Please read these mails
> from some iText/FOP users:
> http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/8175/0/8071577/
> http://www.mail-archive.com/itext-questions%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg00491
> .html Please send your answers to the iText mailing list.
> You don't need to subscribe, I will pass them through.
> Remark: sorry, but due to the lack of time to read all
> my mail as it is, I will now unsubscribe from the FOP
> mailing list. kind regards,
> Bruno Lowagie
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Re: merging two libraries
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@arcfan.demon.co.uk>.
At 08:27 12/03/02, bruno@lowagie.com wrote:
>Hello all,
>
> > I'm not familiar with FOP, but I can't help noticing
> > that people are moving from FOP to iText and vice versa.
> > As original developer of iText, a JAVA-PDF library, I already
> > proposed you guys at Apache twice to join forces and to combine
> > both libraries. I now subscribe to this mailing list only to
> > ask you a third time to reconsider your refusal.
Bruno - Relax! Your antagonistic attitude does you no service.
I've been trying to look after the FOP FAQ for nearly a year now and although
I was aware of your software I had no knowledge that you were interested in
"joining forces".
Please learn a bit more about how Apache developers work. You can start off
by joining the fop-dev mailing list which is of course better than the
fop-user list for contacting the fop developers.
> Remark: sorry, but due to the lack of time to read all
> > my mail as it is, I will now unsubscribe from the FOP mailing list.
Bruno - do you know how rude this is? You want to "join forces" but you
wont even stay subscribed to the mailing list?
My comments are my own and do not reflect the FOP software developers.
Alex McLintock