Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Daniel Spicar <da...@trialox.org>]

Good Points Tommaso,

I extracted the discussion to its own thread in hope of raising some
attention for the others to join in.

So far I see a couple of categories of propositions:

1. Improving awareness of Clerezza:
 - "Powered by Clerezza" page.
 - Targetting specific communities that Clerezza or parts of it may be
suited for, e.g. researchers
 - Get involved in GSoC or similar projects.

2. Making working with Clerezza easier for users:
 - More and better Documentation.
 - Better source tree structure

Daniel


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>
Date: 2 May 2012 00:08
Subject: Re: Report due on Wednesday
To: clerezza-dev@incubator.apache.org


Hi all,

2012/5/1 Daniel Spicar <ds...@apache.org>

> We need to discuss a plan for community development for the report.
>
>
> Here are my thoughts. I did not think this trough in great detail. It's
> pretty much Brainstorming.
>
> It would be really good if we could get some more user interaction going.
> As I see it there are several users of Clerezza but the only community we
> hear from regularly is the Stanbol community.

This leads to a situation
> where I have a bad overview of who our users are and what they want
> improved. Am I just expecting too much? Does somebody know how such
> interaction can be encouraged?
>

In my past experience one thing that helps in getting new users (which will
make questions) is presenting a list of applications which take advantage
of the product.
So something like a "powered by Clerezza" page on our website may help.


Also I think we need to boost how a user/developer could read our code: if
I were interested only in the (very nice) RDF API Clerezza provides then I
may get lost when looking at the source code tree (look at [1]) so we may
structure the module tree some more in more conceptually related submodules.
Something like:
rdf-api
jax-rs
storage
security
ontologies
tools


>
> Another approach we could try is to get involved in something like GSoC or
> get students to work with/on Clerezza as part of their studies projects.
We
> do have some connections to the University of Zurich and other
> institutions.
>

+1


>
> Third, maybe we could 'hook' some researchers on Clerezza, or at least the
> Clerezza API. From my experience at the University of Zurich, Jena is the
> de-facto standard and many researchers don't even know that Clerezza
exist.

However to get them to use Clerezza we probably need to offer them some
> benefits. That probably means to invest quite some work into integrating
> some functionality they want but that Jena is not offering.
>

That was my experience as well, as far as I can say researchers don't care
much about this or that project as long as they have "a good thing for that
which just works" so your proposal of highlighting the Clerezza benefits
would make sense.

Apart from that I think we need to write some more documentation, I
remember we talked about having MoinMoin for our wiki. IMHO we should just
use that and add links on our website.

My 2 cents,
Tommaso


>
> What do you think? Any totally different approachers?
>
> Daniel
>


[1] : http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/trunk/parent/


>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
> Date: 1 May 2012 12:46
> Subject: Re: Report due on Wednesday
> To: clerezza-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> The http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/February2012 report said
>
> > ...We need to discuss a plan for community development with our mentors
> > for the next board report. The next report will contain some clear
> > actions....
>
> I don't think that has happened - the board meeting is in two weeks,
> so IMO there's still a bit of time for this to happen, even if you
> submit the report tomorrow.
>
> -Bertrand
>

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>]

Hi all,

2012/5/11 florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com>

> +1
> Good plan.
> May also think about participation of the ApacheCon Eu this year.


> Maybe a /demo or /5-minutes svn folder to show clerezza power to the
> newbie ?
>

big +1, I should be there as well, we can discuss here what we'd like to
show/highlight.


> I don't want to restart the flame war, but do we keep the actual system
> for website or go to apache's cms ?
>

I tried to update the website recently but I got some errors again so I put
that activity on hold for now.
I think we should try to make website update smarter, by improving our
system or via Apache CMS.

Regards,
Tommaso



>
> ++
>
>
> On 05/07/2012 01:30 PM, Daniel Spicar wrote:
>
>> Good Points Tommaso,
>>
>> I extracted the discussion to its own thread in hope of raising some
>> attention for the others to join in.
>>
>> So far I see a couple of categories of propositions:
>>
>> 1. Improving awareness of Clerezza:
>>  - "Powered by Clerezza" page.
>>  - Targetting specific communities that Clerezza or parts of it may be
>> suited for, e.g. researchers
>>  - Get involved in GSoC or similar projects.
>>
>> 2. Making working with Clerezza easier for users:
>>  - More and better Documentation.
>>  - Better source tree structure
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Tommaso Teofili<to...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> Date: 2 May 2012 00:08
>> Subject: Re: Report due on Wednesday
>> To: clerezza-dev@incubator.apache.**org<cl...@incubator.apache.org>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> 2012/5/1 Daniel Spicar<ds...@apache.org>
>>
>>  We need to discuss a plan for community development for the report.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are my thoughts. I did not think this trough in great detail. It's
>>> pretty much Brainstorming.
>>>
>>> It would be really good if we could get some more user interaction going.
>>> As I see it there are several users of Clerezza but the only community we
>>> hear from regularly is the Stanbol community.
>>>
>>
>> This leads to a situation
>>
>>> where I have a bad overview of who our users are and what they want
>>> improved. Am I just expecting too much? Does somebody know how such
>>> interaction can be encouraged?
>>>
>>>
>> In my past experience one thing that helps in getting new users (which
>> will
>> make questions) is presenting a list of applications which take advantage
>> of the product.
>> So something like a "powered by Clerezza" page on our website may help.
>>
>>
>> Also I think we need to boost how a user/developer could read our code: if
>> I were interested only in the (very nice) RDF API Clerezza provides then I
>> may get lost when looking at the source code tree (look at [1]) so we may
>> structure the module tree some more in more conceptually related
>> submodules.
>> Something like:
>> rdf-api
>> jax-rs
>> storage
>> security
>> ontologies
>> tools
>>
>>
>>
>>> Another approach we could try is to get involved in something like GSoC
>>> or
>>> get students to work with/on Clerezza as part of their studies projects.
>>>
>> We
>>
>>> do have some connections to the University of Zurich and other
>>> institutions.
>>>
>>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>>> Third, maybe we could 'hook' some researchers on Clerezza, or at least
>>> the
>>> Clerezza API. From my experience at the University of Zurich, Jena is the
>>> de-facto standard and many researchers don't even know that Clerezza
>>>
>> exist.
>>
>> However to get them to use Clerezza we probably need to offer them some
>>
>>> benefits. That probably means to invest quite some work into integrating
>>> some functionality they want but that Jena is not offering.
>>>
>>>
>> That was my experience as well, as far as I can say researchers don't care
>> much about this or that project as long as they have "a good thing for
>> that
>> which just works" so your proposal of highlighting the Clerezza benefits
>> would make sense.
>>
>> Apart from that I think we need to write some more documentation, I
>> remember we talked about having MoinMoin for our wiki. IMHO we should just
>> use that and add links on our website.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>> Tommaso
>>
>>
>>
>>> What do you think? Any totally different approachers?
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [1] : http://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/incubator/clerezza/trunk/**
>> parent/<http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/trunk/parent/>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Bertrand Delacretaz<bd...@apache.org>
>>> >
>>> Date: 1 May 2012 12:46
>>> Subject: Re: Report due on Wednesday
>>> To: clerezza-dev@incubator.apache.**org<cl...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> The http://wiki.apache.org/**incubator/February2012<http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/February2012>report said
>>>
>>>  ...We need to discuss a plan for community development with our mentors
>>>> for the next board report. The next report will contain some clear
>>>> actions....
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think that has happened - the board meeting is in two weeks,
>>> so IMO there's still a bit of time for this to happen, even if you
>>> submit the report tomorrow.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[florent andré <fl...@4sengines.com>]

+1
Good plan.
May also think about participation of the ApacheCon Eu this year.

Maybe a /demo or /5-minutes svn folder to show clerezza power to the 
newbie ?

I don't want to restart the flame war, but do we keep the actual system 
for website or go to apache's cms ?

++

On 05/07/2012 01:30 PM, Daniel Spicar wrote:
> Good Points Tommaso,
>
> I extracted the discussion to its own thread in hope of raising some
> attention for the others to join in.
>
> So far I see a couple of categories of propositions:
>
> 1. Improving awareness of Clerezza:
>   - "Powered by Clerezza" page.
>   - Targetting specific communities that Clerezza or parts of it may be
> suited for, e.g. researchers
>   - Get involved in GSoC or similar projects.
>
> 2. Making working with Clerezza easier for users:
>   - More and better Documentation.
>   - Better source tree structure
>
> Daniel
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tommaso Teofili<to...@gmail.com>
> Date: 2 May 2012 00:08
> Subject: Re: Report due on Wednesday
> To: clerezza-dev@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> 2012/5/1 Daniel Spicar<ds...@apache.org>
>
>> We need to discuss a plan for community development for the report.
>>
>>
>> Here are my thoughts. I did not think this trough in great detail. It's
>> pretty much Brainstorming.
>>
>> It would be really good if we could get some more user interaction going.
>> As I see it there are several users of Clerezza but the only community we
>> hear from regularly is the Stanbol community.
>
> This leads to a situation
>> where I have a bad overview of who our users are and what they want
>> improved. Am I just expecting too much? Does somebody know how such
>> interaction can be encouraged?
>>
>
> In my past experience one thing that helps in getting new users (which will
> make questions) is presenting a list of applications which take advantage
> of the product.
> So something like a "powered by Clerezza" page on our website may help.
>
>
> Also I think we need to boost how a user/developer could read our code: if
> I were interested only in the (very nice) RDF API Clerezza provides then I
> may get lost when looking at the source code tree (look at [1]) so we may
> structure the module tree some more in more conceptually related submodules.
> Something like:
> rdf-api
> jax-rs
> storage
> security
> ontologies
> tools
>
>
>>
>> Another approach we could try is to get involved in something like GSoC or
>> get students to work with/on Clerezza as part of their studies projects.
> We
>> do have some connections to the University of Zurich and other
>> institutions.
>>
>
> +1
>
>
>>
>> Third, maybe we could 'hook' some researchers on Clerezza, or at least the
>> Clerezza API. From my experience at the University of Zurich, Jena is the
>> de-facto standard and many researchers don't even know that Clerezza
> exist.
>
> However to get them to use Clerezza we probably need to offer them some
>> benefits. That probably means to invest quite some work into integrating
>> some functionality they want but that Jena is not offering.
>>
>
> That was my experience as well, as far as I can say researchers don't care
> much about this or that project as long as they have "a good thing for that
> which just works" so your proposal of highlighting the Clerezza benefits
> would make sense.
>
> Apart from that I think we need to write some more documentation, I
> remember we talked about having MoinMoin for our wiki. IMHO we should just
> use that and add links on our website.
>
> My 2 cents,
> Tommaso
>
>
>>
>> What do you think? Any totally different approachers?
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>
>
> [1] : http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/clerezza/trunk/parent/
>
>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bertrand Delacretaz<bd...@apache.org>
>> Date: 1 May 2012 12:46
>> Subject: Re: Report due on Wednesday
>> To: clerezza-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>> The http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/February2012 report said
>>
>>> ...We need to discuss a plan for community development with our mentors
>>> for the next board report. The next report will contain some clear
>>> actions....
>>
>> I don't think that has happened - the board meeting is in two weeks,
>> so IMO there's still a bit of time for this to happen, even if you
>> submit the report tomorrow.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>]

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> wrote:

> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > ...I think the following for components are likely to be used
> independently of
> > webfrontend and authentication:
> >
> > 1. RDF stuff: core + uitilities
> > 2. RDF-Scala
> > 3. Scala Based Shell
> > 4. ScalaServerPages
> >
> > 4 depends on 2 which in turn depends on 1.
> >
> > How could we best make this modules easy to be integrated into any OSGi
> app?...
>
> Isn't it enough just to release and document them separately?
>
ok created CLEREZZA-710 for this.

Cheers,
Reto

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...I think the following for components are likely to be used independently of
> webfrontend and authentication:
>
> 1. RDF stuff: core + uitilities
> 2. RDF-Scala
> 3. Scala Based Shell
> 4. ScalaServerPages
>
> 4 depends on 2 which in turn depends on 1.
>
> How could we best make this modules easy to be integrated into any OSGi app?...

Isn't it enough just to release and document them separately?
A "reusable components" section on the web site could point people to
those modules, and OSGi/Java users are supposed to know how to reuse
bundles/jars.

-Bertrand

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Reto Bachmann-Gmür <re...@apache.org>]

I agree that it is important to emphasise the clerezza modules and how they
can be used independently.

Not sure if obr or karaf might be use to make modulewise adaptation easier.

I think the following for components are likely to be used independently of
webfrontend and authentication:

1. RDF stuff: core + uitilities
2. RDF-Scala
3. Scala Based Shell
4. ScalaServerPages

4 depends on 2 which in turn depends on 1.

How could we best make this modules easy to be integrated into any OSGi app?

Cheers,
Reto





On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Tommaso Teofili
<to...@gmail.com>wrote:

> 2012/5/11 Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Daniel Spicar <daniel.spicar@trialox.org
> >
> > wrote:
> > > So far I see a couple of categories of propositions:
> > >
> > > 1. Improving awareness of Clerezza:
> > ...
> > > 2. Making working with Clerezza easier for users:
> > ...
> >
> > Would it also make sense to better advertise the reusable parts of
> > Clerezza?
> >
> > IIUC there's some RDF-related stuff that is useful independently from
> > the CMS aspects of Clerezza, if I'm correct it might be good to
> > clearly separate and document that. That might help expand the
> > community.
> >
>
> +1 absolutely yes, that was of my points too.
> Tommaso
>
>
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
>

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>]

2012/5/11 Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Daniel Spicar <da...@trialox.org>
> wrote:
> > So far I see a couple of categories of propositions:
> >
> > 1. Improving awareness of Clerezza:
> ...
> > 2. Making working with Clerezza easier for users:
> ...
>
> Would it also make sense to better advertise the reusable parts of
> Clerezza?
>
> IIUC there's some RDF-related stuff that is useful independently from
> the CMS aspects of Clerezza, if I'm correct it might be good to
> clearly separate and document that. That might help expand the
> community.
>

+1 absolutely yes, that was of my points too.
Tommaso


>
> -Bertrand
>

Re: Community Development Plan (Was: Report due on Wednesday)

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Daniel Spicar <da...@trialox.org> wrote:
> So far I see a couple of categories of propositions:
>
> 1. Improving awareness of Clerezza:
...
> 2. Making working with Clerezza easier for users:
...

Would it also make sense to better advertise the reusable parts of Clerezza?

IIUC there's some RDF-related stuff that is useful independently from
the CMS aspects of Clerezza, if I'm correct it might be good to
clearly separate and document that. That might help expand the
community.

-Bertrand