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Posted to dev@diversity.apache.org by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org> on 2019/10/18 00:08:35 UTC
Survey meeting to gather feedback
Hello folks,
As you may know we opened a contribution period to get feedback about the
question of the survey that we are going to launch soon.
The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all existing ASF
contributors about the curreThe main purpose of this survey is to gather
feedback from all existing ASF contributors about the current level of
diversity and inclusion, including education, age, socio-economic status,
and gender. The survey will take 15 minutes of your time and is voluntary.
Your responses will be anonymous, unless you want to share your email
address for follow-on questions. All data will be reported at an aggregate
level and will help us understand the experiences of different groups.
the meeting is now placed at 8 pm CEST / 11 am PDT. The following is the
info to join: 18th October, 8 pm CEST, 11 am PDT.
URL: https://meet.google.com/htf-oynx-jfd
Conference system: Google Meet
Alternative phone number: +1 419-492-4470 PIN: 856 580 883#
For more information you can access:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-29
Thanks
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Hello folks,
Here you'll find attached the notes and final version of the survey.
thank you so much for your contributions, time and patience.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ooz3OFomWFXV4uPb7A4mArFRI-KfXeNSV-_M6knv2Ds/edit#
Thanks,
Katia
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 5:09 PM Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello Patricia,
>
> Indeed we can always improve the process, and we will, thank you for
> taking your time giving as guidance. We are learning while following the
> process and we are not perfect. We apologise if we weren't
> completely inclusive, we intended to be inclusive, and the more transparent
> and open possible but also meet deadlines and address all the queries and
> comments made, with few people working on it. I can assure you, we were
> working non stop and we still are.
>
> I understand your point of view. the question was intended to gather
> information taking into account these considerations as well. Also, we have
> to say that this is a 20 min max survey and we can't include all the
> questions we would like to, we have to pick up key questions and that's
> what we did, always taking into consideration your comments and questions.
>
> If you have further questions or comments please let us know. Also, you
> can pin me on slack :)
>
> Thanks,
> Katia
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 4:35 PM Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:
>> > Hello folks,
>> >
>> > Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now
>> > to get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
>> > contribution period.
>> >
>> > Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments
>> > were valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
>> >
>> > Here is the meeting minutes:
>> >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
>> >
>> > If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
>>
>> The minutes say:
>>
>> > We decided on not having ethnic minority in the question, but instead
>> > ask about the place of birth. As the place of birth might have bigger
>> > implications on how contributors face barriers/ perception issues.
>>
>> Where I live, in San Diego county, life is significantly different
>> depending on ethnicity. For example, people who appear to be Latinx seem
>> to be more likely to be questioned at Customs and Border Protection
>> checkpoints.
>>
>
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Hello Patricia,
Indeed we can always improve the process, and we will, thank you for taking
your time giving as guidance. We are learning while following the process
and we are not perfect. We apologise if we weren't completely inclusive, we
intended to be inclusive, and the more transparent and open possible but
also meet deadlines and address all the queries and comments made, with few
people working on it. I can assure you, we were working non stop and we
still are.
I understand your point of view. the question was intended to gather
information taking into account these considerations as well. Also, we have
to say that this is a 20 min max survey and we can't include all the
questions we would like to, we have to pick up key questions and that's
what we did, always taking into consideration your comments and questions.
If you have further questions or comments please let us know. Also, you can
pin me on slack :)
Thanks,
Katia
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 4:35 PM Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
> On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now
> > to get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
> > contribution period.
> >
> > Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments
> > were valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
> >
> > Here is the meeting minutes:
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
> >
> > If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
>
> The minutes say:
>
> > We decided on not having ethnic minority in the question, but instead
> > ask about the place of birth. As the place of birth might have bigger
> > implications on how contributors face barriers/ perception issues.
>
> Where I live, in San Diego county, life is significantly different
> depending on ethnicity. For example, people who appear to be Latinx seem
> to be more likely to be questioned at Customs and Border Protection
> checkpoints.
>
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
Can we keep this conversation to one list please, dev@commuity and committers@ are going to have large numbers of people who may not want to be involved in this discussion.
I agree that the process could have been handled better, and was a little surprised that actions were being taken without more enlist conversation. I am however more used to the PMC way of doing things.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now
> to get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
> contribution period.
>
> Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments
> were valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
>
> Here is the meeting minutes:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
>
> If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
The minutes say:
> We decided on not having ethnic minority in the question, but instead
> ask about the place of birth. As the place of birth might have bigger
> implications on how contributors face barriers/ perception issues.
Where I live, in San Diego county, life is significantly different
depending on ethnicity. For example, people who appear to be Latinx seem
to be more likely to be questioned at Customs and Border Protection
checkpoints.
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Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now
> to get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
> contribution period.
>
> Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments
> were valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
>
> Here is the meeting minutes:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
>
> If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
The minutes say:
> We decided on not having ethnic minority in the question, but instead
> ask about the place of birth. As the place of birth might have bigger
> implications on how contributors face barriers/ perception issues.
Where I live, in San Diego county, life is significantly different
depending on ethnicity. For example, people who appear to be Latinx seem
to be more likely to be questioned at Customs and Border Protection
checkpoints.
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
I see the notes say that "the survey is open to any kind contributor - so anyone who is subscribed to the Mailing Lists.” My understanding was that it open to all committers and that's a much much smaller set of people than anyone who is subscribed to a mailing list. Is my understanding incorrect? I had a short conversation with Katia off list and is seems it’s contributors not committers. Is anyone concerned that there may be a backlash against casting the net that wide? I also not 100% sure of the physical mechanism we would use to send the survey to all contributors as opposed to all committers.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now to
> get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
> contribution period.
>
> Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments were
> valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
>
> Here is the meeting minutes:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
>
> If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
I don't doubt the people involved were working very hard, but I find the
process troubling, and maybe there could have been more workers
available to share the load if things had been done in a different order.
I have received e-mails that appear to me to be final disposition of my
comments on the survey, with no copy to the mailing list and before the
meeting minutes were sent. The comments in question were not mentioned
in the minutes. That means final decisions are being made with no
opportunity for those who were not in the meeting to express their opinions.
After a subset of a PMC has been involved in face-to-face or phone
discussions, usually the next thing to happen, before making final
decisions and communicating them, is to bring the rest of the committee
up to speed by posting the minutes on the mailing list and continuing
the discussion there. Final decisions come after mailing list
discussion. I realize D&I is not a PMC, but this is a situation in which
I think it would have been better to follow a procedure that is designed
to avoid excluding people based on what time of day they are available.
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 10/21/2019 3:58 AM, Katia Rojas wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now to
> get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
> contribution period.
>
> Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments were
> valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
>
> Here is the meeting minutes:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
>
> If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
I don't doubt the people involved were working very hard, but I find the
process troubling, and maybe there could have been more workers
available to share the load if things had been done in a different order.
I have received e-mails that appear to me to be final disposition of my
comments on the survey, with no copy to the mailing list and before the
meeting minutes were sent. The comments in question were not mentioned
in the minutes. That means final decisions are being made with no
opportunity for those who were not in the meeting to express their opinions.
After a subset of a PMC has been involved in face-to-face or phone
discussions, usually the next thing to happen, before making final
decisions and communicating them, is to bring the rest of the committee
up to speed by posting the minutes on the mailing list and continuing
the discussion there. Final decisions come after mailing list
discussion. I realize D&I is not a PMC, but this is a situation in which
I think it would have been better to follow a procedure that is designed
to avoid excluding people based on what time of day they are available.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Hello folks,
Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now to
get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
contribution period.
Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments were
valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
Here is the meeting minutes:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
Thanks,
Katia
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:09 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > We are going to share the meeting minutes of yesterday’s meeting soon!
>
> Any progress on this? Ideally is should be done right after the meeting,
> otherwise ofter in the community who were not at the meeting are at a
> disadvantage as they don’t know what was discussed. If any decisions where
> discussed they need to be brought back to this mailing this for wider
> community discussion.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Hello folks,
Sorry for the delay in the answer, we were working non stop until now to
get you the meeting minutes and prepare ourselves for the second
contribution period.
Again, thank you so much for your time and help! All your comments were
valuable and helped us to understand different points of view.
Here is the meeting minutes:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/EDI/2019-10-18+Feedback+for+Survey
If you have any question or comments, please let us know.
Thanks,
Katia
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:09 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > We are going to share the meeting minutes of yesterday’s meeting soon!
>
> Any progress on this? Ideally is should be done right after the meeting,
> otherwise ofter in the community who were not at the meeting are at a
> disadvantage as they don’t know what was discussed. If any decisions where
> discussed they need to be brought back to this mailing this for wider
> community discussion.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> We are going to share the meeting minutes of yesterday’s meeting soon!
Any progress on this? Ideally is should be done right after the meeting, otherwise ofter in the community who were not at the meeting are at a disadvantage as they don’t know what was discussed. If any decisions where discussed they need to be brought back to this mailing this for wider community discussion.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Hello folks!
How are you doing? This is a new update about the survey and the data
gathering.
We curated the survey, here you’ll find the updated version of the survey:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ooz3OFomWFXV4uPb7A4mArFRI-KfXeNSV-_M6knv2Ds/edit?usp=sharing
We are opening a second contribution period until 6pm UTC of the 20th
October.
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=My+Awesome+Event&iso=20191020T18&p1=1440
We are going to share the meeting minutes of yesterday’s meeting soon! We
are planing to upload it to Confluence as well.
Thank you so much for all the feedback you gave us. We really appreciate
it.
If you have any question or comments, let us know.
PS. Thank you Christopher for the tip about the Timezone setup ;)
Thank you,
Katia
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 06:23, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> HI,
>
> I assume this meeting was held? Please don’t forget to bring back to the
> mailing list what was discussed and decided.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Hello folks!
How are you doing? This is a new update about the survey and the data
gathering.
We curated the survey, here you’ll find the updated version of the survey:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ooz3OFomWFXV4uPb7A4mArFRI-KfXeNSV-_M6knv2Ds/edit?usp=sharing
We are opening a second contribution period until 6pm UTC of the 20th
October.
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=My+Awesome+Event&iso=20191020T18&p1=1440
We are going to share the meeting minutes of yesterday’s meeting soon! We
are planing to upload it to Confluence as well.
Thank you so much for all the feedback you gave us. We really appreciate
it.
If you have any question or comments, let us know.
PS. Thank you Christopher for the tip about the Timezone setup ;)
Thank you,
Katia
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 06:23, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> HI,
>
> I assume this meeting was held? Please don’t forget to bring back to the
> mailing list what was discussed and decided.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
HI,
I assume this meeting was held? Please don’t forget to bring back to the mailing list what was discussed and decided.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Christopher <ct...@apache.org>.
I like using timeanddate.com, because it's easy to send a link to a
specific time, with an optional duration and event name, and everybody
can automatically convert to their local by following the link:
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=My+Awesome+Event&iso=20191031T1530
On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 5:17 AM Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Good point! Thank you for the feedback. I wasn’t familiar with the time
> zones (protocols). And didn’t want to mess with the hours.
>
> Time: 6pm UTC
>
> https://www.worldtimeserver.com/convert_time_in_UTC.aspx
>
>
> Is this okay?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 09:41, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 01:08, Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello folks,
> > >
> > > As you may know we opened a contribution period to get feedback about the
> > > question of the survey that we are going to launch soon.
> > >
> > > The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all existing
> > ASF
> > > contributors about the curreThe main purpose of this survey is to gather
> > > feedback from all existing ASF contributors about the current level of
> > > diversity and inclusion, including education, age, socio-economic status,
> > > and gender. The survey will take 15 minutes of your time and is
> > voluntary.
> > > Your responses will be anonymous, unless you want to share your email
> > > address for follow-on questions. All data will be reported at an
> > aggregate
> > > level and will help us understand the experiences of different groups.
> > >
> > > the meeting is now placed at 8 pm CEST / 11 am PDT. The following is the
> > > info to join: 18th October, 8 pm CEST, 11 am PDT.
> >
> > Minor nit:
> >
> > PDT may be common in NA, but CEST only applies in CE (and is not often
> > heard in the UK)
> >
> > If you truly want to include everyone, it would help to use UTC/GMT.
> > And/or link to a web-site which gives the local time for a UTC time.
> >
> > (Also there is some spurious text at the start of the main paragraph)
> >
> > > URL: https://meet.google.com/htf-oynx-jfd
> > > Conference system: Google Meet
> > > Alternative phone number: +1 419-492-4470 PIN: 856 580 883#
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For more information you can access:
> > >
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-29
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org>.
Good point! Thank you for the feedback. I wasn’t familiar with the time
zones (protocols). And didn’t want to mess with the hours.
Time: 6pm UTC
https://www.worldtimeserver.com/convert_time_in_UTC.aspx
Is this okay?
Thanks!
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 09:41, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 01:08, Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > As you may know we opened a contribution period to get feedback about the
> > question of the survey that we are going to launch soon.
> >
> > The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all existing
> ASF
> > contributors about the curreThe main purpose of this survey is to gather
> > feedback from all existing ASF contributors about the current level of
> > diversity and inclusion, including education, age, socio-economic status,
> > and gender. The survey will take 15 minutes of your time and is
> voluntary.
> > Your responses will be anonymous, unless you want to share your email
> > address for follow-on questions. All data will be reported at an
> aggregate
> > level and will help us understand the experiences of different groups.
> >
> > the meeting is now placed at 8 pm CEST / 11 am PDT. The following is the
> > info to join: 18th October, 8 pm CEST, 11 am PDT.
>
> Minor nit:
>
> PDT may be common in NA, but CEST only applies in CE (and is not often
> heard in the UK)
>
> If you truly want to include everyone, it would help to use UTC/GMT.
> And/or link to a web-site which gives the local time for a UTC time.
>
> (Also there is some spurious text at the start of the main paragraph)
>
> > URL: https://meet.google.com/htf-oynx-jfd
> > Conference system: Google Meet
> > Alternative phone number: +1 419-492-4470 PIN: 856 580 883#
> >
> >
> >
> > For more information you can access:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-29
> >
> > Thanks
>
Re: Survey meeting to gather feedback
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 at 01:08, Katia Rojas <ka...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> As you may know we opened a contribution period to get feedback about the
> question of the survey that we are going to launch soon.
>
> The main purpose of this survey is to gather feedback from all existing ASF
> contributors about the curreThe main purpose of this survey is to gather
> feedback from all existing ASF contributors about the current level of
> diversity and inclusion, including education, age, socio-economic status,
> and gender. The survey will take 15 minutes of your time and is voluntary.
> Your responses will be anonymous, unless you want to share your email
> address for follow-on questions. All data will be reported at an aggregate
> level and will help us understand the experiences of different groups.
>
> the meeting is now placed at 8 pm CEST / 11 am PDT. The following is the
> info to join: 18th October, 8 pm CEST, 11 am PDT.
Minor nit:
PDT may be common in NA, but CEST only applies in CE (and is not often
heard in the UK)
If you truly want to include everyone, it would help to use UTC/GMT.
And/or link to a web-site which gives the local time for a UTC time.
(Also there is some spurious text at the start of the main paragraph)
> URL: https://meet.google.com/htf-oynx-jfd
> Conference system: Google Meet
> Alternative phone number: +1 419-492-4470 PIN: 856 580 883#
>
>
>
> For more information you can access:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DI-29
>
> Thanks